ivandragon:
government should borrow but split the loan into 3 to make it manageable & easier to track.

however, those who continue to refer to GEJ's borrowings seem not to understand the dynamics & variables involved in economic loans & credit facilities.

some of the most indebted countries today include Japan, US, Belgium, Spain, France & Singapore. these are rich nations that continue to borrow to meet certain needs.

at the other spectrum, you also have countries like Bhutan, Jamaica, Cape Verde & of course, Greece.

as a matter of fact, the US between 2012-2014, despite reducing its oil imports drastically, still took loans of between $1.2t to $2t (yes, TRILLION) within that period.

so, it is elementary & shows a high level of ignorance to just give a blanket condemnation to the loans taken by GEJ as it would be unfair to deny PMB the loans needed to take us out of recession.

the difference now is that one knew what he needed the loan for while the other has no idea what he is going to use the loan for.

& before those foot soldiers of PMB attack me, I simply refer you to what the Minister of Sports said yesterday... so incompetence breeds incompetence.

is you that will pay it back abi

fuckingAyaya:
is you that will pay it back abi

if you have nothing meaningful to contribute, you don't have to comment.

The cursed nomad 'll sink nigeria, if not TIMELY checkmated!
Dude is d.aft & lacks the charisma to manage even ordinary kiosk!
Pathetically bereft of ideas!

How has PMB drastically cut the current extravagant cost of governance? Has he cut his feeding budget from billions to millions? what bill has he sent to the NA to force a drastic cut in allowances and waste on govt at all levels?

You can't just start taking loans that would affect our unborn children just yet without first doing an in-house sanitization of the system. Let us see a drastic change in cost of maintaining this govt and we can be rest assured that it wouldn't be a waste.
As it stands now, there is no difference between the waste of last govt and this one. The extravagant system he inherited is still in place.

Nigerians don't need this loan now, to me it is just an avenue for some people to make money.

9jakohai:


Newsflash....Buhari did not take an IMF loan in 1984.

Infact, Buhari spent far more time on economic measures to avoid taking IMF loans....eg agreements with Brazil (we export X to brazil in return for y).

Problem was...the crash in the oil prices (which started in 1982...long before Bubu took over....by 1983 Shagari was already talking austerity)...meant that there was limited cash for the kitty...which lead to inflation and difficulties importing stuff.

Personally, I think the government should tell Nigerians the truth. Our economy is in trouble. Its basis (oil) needs changing.

Buhari should be searching for
homegrown solutions to Nigeria’s
problems, his government was busy
hobnobbing with international
financial institutions
IMF and World Bank, which,
according to him, are the same
institutions promoting capitalism
in most parts of the world,
Nigeria’s
governing class does not
understand the historical path of
the capitalism it is embracing; it is
a clear exercise in self-delusion. the current recession is
self-imposed, a situation that has
made the economy cash strapped. “The economy would continue to
bleed and our people would be
driven further into perpetual state
of need and slavery. manufacturing sector would
become moribund and small and
medium scale industries would
then fizzle out. The economy
would become uncontrollable
import-oriented and the magnitude
of descent into slavery would be
unimaginable.

Let's borrow now

ivandragon:


that's why I said the loan should be split into 3 parts.

the loan for 3 years might not be feasible because it will mean one of the following (even when split):

1. the repayment period will be too short meaning we would struggle to repay loans that haven't started making any impact in our economy.

for instance, if we take a $10b loan now, payable in 3 years, to build say... rail lines to convey gas to powerplants in order to boost our power generation.

to build the rail lines will take between 2.5 - 3 years to complete, but we would have had to repay those loans at an average of $3.5b a year... we can't afford that.

2. we take a much smaller loan... say... $3b, what can we use it for that will make a major impact? build one refinery that will be mismanaged in the future?

I think we should be more concerned about how the loans should be utilised, because there is certainly a disconnect between governance & resource management (financial & human) in this regime.

So who's gonna service the loan once this adminstration is out of office?

And you sighted rail conveyor of gas to run powerplants. Where will the gas come from? Have those guys been signed a "treaty of peace" with the government?

You don't understand the basic problem with this country.
Continuity.

This is why Lagos state is ahead.

I agree with the economist that the major way out of Nigeria economic recession is to borrow more money and spend wisely to grow our economy.

But in the case of Nigeria, the structure is not even there and the northern leadership led by President Buhari has refused to accept restructuring of the country.

So borrowing this money to spend is just like pouring water on rocks it will not penetrate the economy to grow the economy.

Buhari will only leave huge debts for generation unborn to pay.

No wonder governor Fayose was sending a note of caution to Buhari and Saraki to trend softly in the area of external borrowing of money.

abumeinben:


So who's gonna service the loan once this adminstration is out of office?

You don't understand the basic problem with this country.
Continuity.

This is why Lagos state is ahead.

who is servicing the loans taken by GEJ? who serviced the loans taken by previous governments?

the Lagos you referred to, if PDP had won, would they stop servicing the loans?

you see, some people are threading the same path of those who were against subsidy removal in 2012 just to spite GEJ & today, they ask why money wasn't saved conveniently forgetting that one of the avenues that money could have been saved was kicked against.

they were pennywise, pound foolish.

now, we need a loan to get out of the quagmire we are in, you are standing against it, by 2018 when the country is finally cremated, you will ask why didn't the government borrow to prop up the economy or develop infrastructure.

if your concern is that the loan will be mismanaged, fine, I can share that concern.

And you sighted rail conveyor of gas to run powerplants. Where will the gas come from? Have those guys been signed a "treaty of peace" with the government?


read the last part of my submission where I clearly stated that there is a disconnect between governance & resource management.

in fact, if we want to delve deeper, we can that the country needs to be restructured before any loans can be taken.

& the rail line was just for the sake of analysis. but I get your point.

WOCKHARDI:
If the IMF and the World Bank loves the over 170 million suffering Nigerians, they must never grant this loan. We don't trust this inept government to manage the money well for the betterment of us. See how they cannot manage well what they already have - TSA money, Stamp duties, Taxes, Recovered loots, etc etc. "You cannot take care of the kobo, is it the Naira you want to handle" ?
Please don't be a party to mortgage the future of our children because all these government people will not be around when it is repayment time.

Well said!

A government that is not accountable wants to borrow such huge sums, to loot into their private pockets and generations to come. No way.

MrEverest:
Anybody, group or organization that makes the mistake of giving such humongous amount of money to Buhari, a man who is obviously incapacitated, illiterate & surrounded by smart crooks would be making the mistake of their lives. That money will never be accounted for because it will surely end up in the pockets of the likes of Abba Kyari & others in the kitchen cabinet of Buhari. Anybody who gives buhari such money is corrupt and an enemy of Nigeria & he should be ready to write it off in due time as bad loans! Already, Buhari claims to have spent over 6 trillion naira as budget, the highest ever in the history of this beleagered country, yet not even the monkeys nor the baboons could mention a single project he successfully executed, the monies as we all know ended up in the pockets of his croonies! The old man has turned Nigeria into a pariah nation within a year taking over. Buhari is not sound upstairs and those around him knows this obvious fact & are taking advantage of it to commit heinous crimes!!!

Well said Bro, well said.

I could remember vividly when this man told the world that 2016 budget would be financed with recovered loot. the only thing we hear is "full federal might to win muya LGA ,"" I want to borrow trillions " "be patient with my Govt." .

MrEverest:
Anybody, group or organization that makes the mistake of giving such humongous amount of money to Buhari, a man who is obviously incapacitated, illiterate & surrounded by smart crooks would be making the mistake of their lives. That money will never be accounted for because it will surely end up in the pockets of the likes of Abba Kyari & others in the kitchen cabinet of Buhari. Anybody who gives buhari such money is corrupt and an enemy of Nigeria & he should be ready to write it off in due time as bad loans! Already, Buhari claims to have spent over 6 trillion naira as budget, the highest ever in the history of this beleagered country, yet not even the monkeys nor the baboons could mention a single project he successfully executed, the monies as we all know ended up in the pockets of his croonies! The old man has turned Nigeria into a pariah nation within a year taking over. Buhari is not sound upstairs and those around him knows this obvious fact & are taking advantage of it to commit heinous crimes!!!

Shut up jor Mr man, Where are you when GEJ keep borrowing up and down despite make huge from the crude oil? You and your likes are just ranting based on the fact that you hate PMB abi? You can wail till Eternity the IMF will be so happy to approve the loan..

Nigeria doesn't need external Dollar borrowing. Nigerians can raise internal Naira borrowings of unlimited amount to finance any Projects for Nigeria. And when you raise it internally, you'll be augmenting Naira values positively and thereby contributing favourably to Buharis Policy Thrust.

Wit all d controversy surrounding dis year's budget, it is surprising that Udo Udoma who supervised dat scandal should still be minister of Budget & planning. He will be supervising dis year's budget also.
If d war on corruption is real, how come dat no one was punished for creating various fake versions of d 2016 budget?.

bashydemy:



Shut up jor Mr man, Where are you when GEJ keep borrowing up and down despite make huge from the crude oil? You and your likes are just ranting based on the fact that you hate PMB abi? You can wail till Eternity the IMF will be so happy to approve the loan..

Must PMB do everything that GEJ did wrong? Sincere people that understands international politics and economy like OBJ, Emir Sanusi, and Femi Falana has advised PMB against borrowing this loan as it will further add to our problems. The IMF I know will compelled the Federal Government to embarked on anti-people policies before giving the loan. With the present economic team of PMB that cannot even prepare a simple budget, any money borrowed will be squandered to the detriment of Nigeria.

egbonnla:
Must PMB do everything that GEJ did wrong? Sincere people that understands international politics and economy like OBJ, Emir Sanusi, and Femi Falana has advised PMB against borrowing this loan as it will further add to our problems. The IMF I know will compelled the Federal Government to embarked on anti-people policies before giving the loan. With the present economic team of PMB that cannot even prepare a simple budget, any money borrowed will be squandered to the detriment of Nigeria.

LOL but you and your likes want Magic from PMB how do you want him to turn the economy around? even developed countries are depending on loans.

bashydemy:




LOL but you and your likes want Magic from PMB how do you want him to turn the economy around? even developed countries are depending on loans.

The average oil price throughout the tenor of OBJ was less than $50 per barrel. Also during OBJ tenor, Nigeria was not producing much oil as we are even producing today because there was also militancy and massive oil theft. Please note that OBJ did not borrow but even paid off our past debt. OBJ was able to manage our economy because he assembled a formidable economic team. There is no justification for PMB to borrow a dime ...........

Saintp:
How has PMB drastically cut the current extravagant cost of governance? Has he cut his feeding budget from billions to millions? what bill has he sent to the NA to force a drastic cut in allowances and waste on govt at all levels?

You can't just start taking loans that would affect our unborn children just yet without first doing an in-house sanitization of the system. Let us see a drastic change in cost of maintaining this govt and we can be rest assured that it wouldn't be a waste.
As it stands now, there is no difference between the waste of last govt and this one. The extravagant system he inherited is still in place.

the personal feeding allowance of gej last budget was 500million and gmb increased it to 1.75billion, the vp extension to the aso rock clinic costs more than the entire budget for the teaching hospitals in the country, the vp library purchase of books costs more than the budget for the purchase of books for the entire libraries in our federal universities. the presidential article of the 2016 budget was so inflated that it would make you shed tears of blood. you can dig up the old threads here on nairaland.

ivandragon:


who is servicing the loans taken by GEJ? who serviced the loans taken by previous governments?

the Lagos you referred to, if PDP had won, would they stop servicing the loans?

you see, some people are threading the same path of those who were against subsidy removal in 2012 just to spite GEJ & today, they ask why money wasn't saved conveniently forgetting that one of the avenues that money could have been saved was kicked against.

they were pennywise, pound foolish.

now, we need a loan to get out of the quagmire we are in, you are standing against it, by 2018 when the country is finally cremated, you will ask why didn't the government borrow to prop up the economy or develop infrastructure.

if your concern is that the loan will be mismanaged, fine, I can share that concern.

I'm surprised you believe these unprepared folks you call government.

Are we in recession because there's no money? No!
We're here because cash flow is limited, diversification is trashed to the dustbin. All is oil..oil. I don't do Politics so I support no one. At least during GEJ era, we could see agriculture booming, we could see other ministries working, not just oil.

This adminstration is filled with people who don't know thier job roles, totally disorganized. Remember when the first rumor came that we're now in recession sometime early this year, CBN kept mute, ministry of finance kept mute, it was minister of transportation that came out to deny it, giving grounds upon which a nation is receding.

Totally confused set of people and you're defending them.

Bro would have been the best if he had Jonathan team.

abumeinben:


I'm surprised you believe these unprepared folks you call government.

Are we in recession because there's no money? No!
We're here because cash flow is limited, diversification is trashed to the dustbin. All is oil..oil. I don't do Politics so I support no one. At least during GEJ era, we could see agriculture booming, we could see other ministries working, not just oil.

This adminstration is filled with people who don't know thier job roles, totally disorganized. Remember when the first rumor came that we're now in recession sometime early this year, CBN kept mute, ministry of finance kept mute, it was minister of transportation that came out to deny it, giving grounds upon which a nation is receding.

Totally confused set of people and you're defending them.

Bro would have been the best if he had Jonathan team.

do you read my comments fully before you reply?

I ask because I find it insulting that you would infer that I am defending this regime (note the use of the word regime), especially as I made it clear that this regime has resource management issues.

I believe our discussion, ab initio, centred around the viability or not of taking a loan (one that is less than the proposed $30b), regardless of who was in charge at the helm & not about defending or supporting the government.

if your argument centres around this regime & its composition of clowns, then I beg to be excused, I cannot defend incompetence please.

however, if its about the loan itself, apropos of the government in charge, then I stand on my point that taking a reduced loan is a step in the right direction compared to the alternatives.

for instance, is it right to give alms to the needy? of course, we would agree it is OK.

then, is it right to give alms to the needy who might use it to drink & squander? probably not, but that doesn't take away the fact that the needy needs help & would normally be eligible to receive such help...

ivandragon:


do you read my comments fully before you reply?

I ask because I find it insulting that you would infer that I am defending this regime (note the use of the word regime), especially as I made it clear that this regime has resource management issues.

I believe our discussion, ab initio, centred around the viability or not of taking a loan (one that is less than the proposed $30b), regardless of who was in charge at the helm & not about defending or supporting the government.

if your argument centres around this regime & its composition of clowns, then I beg to be excused, I cannot defend incompetence please.

however, if its about the loan itself, apropos of the government in charge, then I stand on my point that taking a reduced loan is a step in the right direction compared to the alternatives.

for instance, is it right to give alms to the needy? of course, we would agree it is OK.

then, is it right to give alms to the needy who might use it to drink & squander? probably not, but that doesn't take away the fact that the needy needs help & would normally be eligible to receive such help...

Oh...then we're on same page bruh.

These people, with hats of incompetences, won't micromanage the said loan. So why giving the go ahead?

Sure we need a loan, but not such bogus amount that would be later unaccounted for.

egbonnla:
The average oil price throughout the tenor of OBJ was less than $50 per barrel. Also during OBJ tenor, Nigeria was not producing much oil as we are even producing today because there was also militancy and massive oil theft. Please note that OBJ did not borrow but even paid off our past debt. OBJ was able to manage our economy because he assembled a formidable economic team. There is no justification for PMB to borrow a dime ...........

I love it when people show how daft they are.


How old are you during the regime of OBJ?

How many people are you feeding then and how many are you feeding now?

How much is the minimum wages then and how much is it now?

How much is each states allocation then and how much is it now?


You are 8yrs older from when OBJ left power and now...

OBJ came to power 1999 meaning you are 16yrs older from he took power and now...

My question is are you using a laminated brain?

bashydemy:



I love it when people show how daft they are.


How old are you during the regime of OBJ?

How many people are you feeding then and how many are you feeding now?

How much is the minimum wages then and how much is it now?

How much is each states allocation then and how much is it now?


You are 8yrs older from when OBJ left power and now...

OBJ came to power 1999 meaning you are 16yrs older from he took power and now...

My question is are you using a laminated brain?

I am not surprised because Zombies like you have lost their sense of reasoning. If being daft is taking the same position with men like Emir Sanusi, OBJ and Soludo who had voiced their opinion against PMB's plan to borrow, then you need a brain reset.
I am sure that if PMB woke up tomorrow and declare that borrowing is not the best for Nigeria,brainless people like you will change their opinions and support him without asking question. What a disgrace!

egbonnla:
I am not surprised because Zombies like you have lost their sense of reasoning. If being daft is taking the same position with men like Emir Sanusi, OBJ and Soludo who had voiced their opinion against PMB's plan to borrow, then you need a brain reset.
I am sure that if PMB woke up tomorrow and declare that borrowing is not the best for Nigeria,brainless people like you will change your opinion without asking question. What a disgrace!

LOL voice changer hahaha, You mean same Soludo who is nursing his own ambition of being a VP to Atiku will advice PMB on what to do to jeopardize his ( Soludo) ambition?


You can wail all you likes, Your brothers should continue bombing, Buhari will get that loan and put your likes to shame..