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Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target - Politics (2) - Nairaland

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On The Verge Of Collapse, 13 Gencos Drag FG To Court / Why We Can’t Deliver On Our Promises – Osinbajo / Discos, Gencos Bringing Shame To Govt – Fashola (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by obailala(m): 11:30am On Dec 13, 2016
OlajumokeBread:


I don't want good/improved electricity

I don't want good economy

I don't want good roads

I don't want anything good

All i want is Buhari to rule Nigeria for 100 years

I want to see the zombies suffer till death
The folly of your current position is that if you are asked what your hero did with the over $8billion and 5 years he spent on the power sector alone, you will have no response. But somehow your brand of brain thinks Buhari has failed more in terms of power.... And then one begins to wonder how someone with your sort of reasoning ability can possibly be calling some others zombies.
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Troygod: 11:36am On Dec 13, 2016
TherWasACountry:
Thereis a country
there was a country grin
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by teemy(m): 11:51am On Dec 13, 2016
9jakohai:
Looking at the report...the problem appears to be

1.Increasing cost of supplying power due to importation of gas.

2.Poor transmission system.
add vandalism to the mix. just too much vested interests

3 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by VastFinder: 11:57am On Dec 13, 2016
I guess this would only affect few States...
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by ceejay80s(m): 12:01pm On Dec 13, 2016
na solar sure pass
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Onechancearmy(m): 12:11pm On Dec 13, 2016
New York a City of 8 million people generates 13,300 megawatts of electricity.

Nigeria, a country of 160 million people can't even generate 6000 megawatts.

Agbaya of Africa

5 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by omohayek: 12:39pm On Dec 13, 2016
Onechancearmy:
New York a City of 8 million people generates 13,300 megawatts of electricity.

Nigeria, a country of 160 million people can't even generate 6000 megawatts.

Agbaya of Africa

The difference is that

1. The residents of New York actually pay market prices for their electricity, unlike in Nigeria where prices are artificially capped at unrealistically low levels.
2. The vast majority of New Yorkers actually pay their bills, unlike the many Nigerians who either refuse to pay or outright steal from the grid.
3. The American federal, state and local governments don't owe their electricity providers billions of dollars, and don't have to be begged for years to pay up.
4. The American electricity providers buy their fuel in dollars, pay their costs in dollars, and charge their clients in dollars, so for them there is no FX risk to worry about.
5. American electrical grids haven't been starved of investment for decades, and they aren't owned by a cash-strapped government that can't even pay its bills, let alone find tens of billions of dollars to make up the difference.
6. The American government doesn't create unnecessary difficulties for foreign investors, and you don't have to worry about "settling" everybody from the police to the governors to get simple things done.

By the way, people on here keep bringing up the "Fashola is a lawyer" thing again and again, without even bothering to absorb the contents of the articles they're commenting on. What in all of the problems listed requires any special engineering expertise? Nigeria's power sector is failing for economic and political reasons, not a lack of engineering expertise; no special engineering insight is required to understand that companies who can't charge enough to cover their costs, or get their customers to pay their debts, can't keep operating at a loss indefinitely.

Everybody wants to blame Fashola for not performing some sort of miracle, but what would anybody do differently that wouldn't have most Nigerians wailing and screaming? Look how much people complained about the last tariff increase, and even that didn't reflect the true costs at the time, or the subsequent inflation. You want reliable power, but none of you want to pay for it.

3 Likes 3 Shares

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Onechancearmy(m): 1:31pm On Dec 13, 2016
omohayek:


The difference is that

1. The residents of New York actually pay market prices for their electricity, unlike in Nigeria where prices are artificially capped at unrealistically low levels.
2. The vast majority of New Yorkers actually pay their bills, unlike the many Nigerians who either refuse to pay or outright steal from the grid.
3. The American federal, state and local governments don't owe their electricity providers billions of dollars, and don't have to be begged for years to pay up.
4. The American electricity providers buy their fuel in dollars, pay their costs in dollars, and charge their clients in dollars, so for them there is no FX risk to worry about.
5. American electrical grids haven't been starved of investment for decades, and they aren't owned by a cash-strapped government that can't even pay its bills, let alone find tens of billions of dollars to make up the difference.
6. The American government doesn't create unnecessary difficulties for foreign investors, and you don't have to worry about "settling" everybody from the police to the governors to get simple things done.

By the way, people on here keep bringing up the "Fashola is a lawyer" thing again and again, without even bothering to absorb the contents of the articles they're commenting on. What in all of the problems listed requires any special engineering expertise? Nigeria's power sector is failing for economic and political reasons, not a lack of engineering expertise; no special engineering insight is required to understand that companies who can't charge enough to cover their costs, or get their customers to pay their debts, can't keep operating at a loss indefinitely.

Everybody wants to blame Fashola for not performing some sort of miracle, but what would anybody do differently that wouldn't have most Nigerians wailing and screaming? Look how much people complained about the last tariff increase, and even that didn't reflect the true costs at the time, or the subsequent inflation. You want reliable power, but none of you want to pay for it.

Why pay for something that doesn't exist? And whose fault is it that billing in Nigeria is so chaotic and disorganised.
Countries which charge more for electricity usually have proper billing management, well maintained infrastructure and are able to provide a reliable service.
Passing the blame to the hapless consumer does not explain the gross incompetence of management.

3 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Exciton(m): 1:40pm On Dec 13, 2016
@ Omohayek

I disagree with the first three reasons. Those are operational challenges and has nothing to do with electricity generation.

Corruption is the singular reason why we have little increase in total electricity generation after tens of billions of dollars invested over the years. It's not explicitly the fault of the people.

2 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by agitator: 1:50pm On Dec 13, 2016
omohayek:


The difference is that

1. The residents of New York actually pay market prices for their electricity, unlike in Nigeria where prices are artificially capped at unrealistically low levels.
2. The vast majority of New Yorkers actually pay their bills, unlike the many Nigerians who either refuse to pay or outright steal from the grid.
3. The American federal, state and local governments don't owe their electricity providers billions of dollars, and don't have to be begged for years to pay up.
4. The American electricity providers buy their fuel in dollars, pay their costs in dollars, and charge their clients in dollars, so for them there is no FX risk to worry about.
5. American electrical grids haven't been starved of investment for decades, and they aren't owned by a cash-strapped government that can't even pay its bills, let alone find tens of billions of dollars to make up the difference.
6. The American government doesn't create unnecessary difficulties for foreign investors, and you don't have to worry about "settling" everybody from the police to the governors to get simple things done.

By the way, people on here keep bringing up the "Fashola is a lawyer" thing again and again, without even bothering to absorb the contents of the articles they're commenting on. What in all of the problems listed requires any special engineering expertise? Nigeria's power sector is failing for economic and political reasons, not a lack of engineering expertise; no special engineering insight is required to understand that companies who can't charge enough to cover their costs, or get their customers to pay their debts, can't keep operating at a loss indefinitely.

Everybody wants to blame Fashola for not performing some sort of miracle, but what would anybody do differently that wouldn't have most Nigerians wailing and screaming? Look how much people complained about the last tariff increase, and even that didn't reflect the true costs at the time, or the subsequent inflation. You want reliable power, but none of you want to pay for it.

a country filled with so called intellectual people reasoning crap like this, and people expects the country to progress.

Was it not the same with Nitel?
Nitel were given free license yet they couldn't compete with companies that bought license and installed fresh infrastructure. In saner climes Nitel would have been banned or restricted to allow others operate for sometime to meet up before allowing Nitel operate. In Britain British Telecom (BT) was not allowed to operate Cable Television for five years, to allow the new entrants gain ground for a level competition.

If electricity had been like telecoms (wireless) all these nigerian owned companies would have closed shop since. angry angry angry

2 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by omohayek: 2:01pm On Dec 13, 2016
agitator:


a country filled with so called intellectual people reasoning crap like this, and people expects the country to progress.

Was it not the same with Nitel?
Nitel were given free license yet they couldn't compete with companies that bought license and installed fresh infrastructure. In saner climes Nitel would have been banned or restricted to allow others operate for sometime to meet up before allowing Nitel operate. In Britain British Telecom (BT) was not allowed to operate Cable Television for five years, to allow the new entrants gain ground for a level competition.

If electricity had been like telecoms (wireless) all these nigerian owned companies would have closed shop since. angry angry angry

If you want to show that you're able to identify "crap" reasoning, the least you can do to establish your credibility is show some actual reasoning yourself. Simply calling something "crap" does not an argument make - you have to actually take the trouble to show where you've identified a flaw in facts or logic.
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by omohayek: 2:06pm On Dec 13, 2016
Exciton:
@ Omohayek

I disagree with the first three reasons. Those are operational challenges and has nothing to do with electricity generation.

Corruption is the singular reason why we have little increase in total electricity generation after tens of billions of dollars invested over the years. It's not explicitly the fault of the people.

Let me ask you something: if you're running a business selling, say, cars, and your customers refuse to pay a high enough price for you to cover the costs of buying and importing the car, while government agencies come over and commandeer your vehicles without ever paying, how long would you expect to remain in business?

Corruption is indeed a gigantic problem in Nigeria, but the laws of economics will continue to apply even if all corruption is eliminated overnight. The fact is that wherever you cap prices below suppliers costs, you get shortages. That's why there were huge queues everywhere for petrol earlier in the year, and why Venezuelans and Cubans are faced with empty shelves in their government-run stores. If corruption were the real issue, the mobile phone companies wouldn't have flourished in Nigeria over the last decade.

1 Like

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by omohayek: 2:14pm On Dec 13, 2016
Onechancearmy:


Why pay for something that doesn't exist? And whose fault is it that billing in Nigeria is so chaotic and disorganised.
Countries which charge more for electricity usually have proper billing management, well maintained infrastructure and are able to provide a reliable service.
Passing the blame to the hapless consumer does not explain the gross incompetence of management.

And passing the blame to management fails to reflect the fact that consumers simply don't want to pay realistic prices for electricity. Look at the behavior of the biggest consumer and debtor by far, namely the FG itself; through the various ministries, agencies and parastatals, it owes 3x what retail customers do, and yet it refused to pay its bills to the DISCOs and GENCOs even when oil was above $100/barrel. Outstanding debts of more than $1 billion have been allowed to accumulate, and yet the DISCOs and GENCOs are expected to magically raise financing to fund further investment, though everybody can see they have no realistic prospect of covering their costs. What are they supposed to do when turning off the light at a barracks causes soldiers to come and beat up their staff?

As for the retail customers, I don't see how any billing issues excuses the outright theft of electricity that is so rampant in Nigeria. One thing people fail to realize is that it's precisely such theft that forces the DISCOs to charge the customers they can bill more, to cover the costs accrued from the ones who steal. Are we to blame the DISCOs for the Nigerian penchant for stealing, or the slow costs that make it so difficult to bring debtors to book?
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by almarthins(m): 2:38pm On Dec 13, 2016
Okeikpu:
Zoological republic of Nizooria
The story I was hearing since I was a kid
Now am almost 40 n still dey hear d same story
Up NEPA then n uptil now


Stop trying to isolate ur self...shey Igbo people no dey import gen, alaba international na my big prove. If Nigeria is a zoo, who contributed to making it a zoo? As I see u, u are one of those corrupt liars fooling themselves to be saints. Biafra !!! Make we investigate deeply u will find an Igbo man among the Nigerian cabals. Nonsense
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Okeikpu(m): 2:42pm On Dec 13, 2016
almarthins:


Stop trying to isolate ur self...shey Igbo people no dey import gen, alaba international na my big prove. If Nigeria is a zoo, who contributed to making it a zoo? As I see u, u are one of those corrupt liars fooling themselves to be saints. Biafra !!! Make we investigate deeply u will find an Igbo man among the Nigerian cabals. Nonsense
What are u really talking abt What's ya point
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Mindmirror: 2:42pm On Dec 13, 2016
THERE WAS A COUNTRY
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by ExInferis(m): 3:07pm On Dec 13, 2016
TINALETC3:
Who won read al dis tins undecided

Be a man. Stop being lazy.
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by bart10: 3:18pm On Dec 13, 2016
Fashola going by his average performance in Lagos ought to have been one of the best in Nigeria but the power sector is too technical for an average folk like him. Now Bubu himself is clueless about every other thing in life except witch hunting his enemies. Ain't surprised the nation grope in darkness while the economy continues to decline at a geometric rate tongue

2 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Nobody: 5:44pm On Dec 13, 2016
Onechancearmy:
New York a City of 8 million people generates 13,300 megawatts of electricity.

Nigeria, a country of 160 million people can't even generate 6000 megawatts.

Agbaya of Africa
We are way behind embarassed
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Nobody: 6:04pm On Dec 13, 2016
wins18:
School Group Photo:::
Headmaster to Photographer...
"N20 is too much. There are over
2000 students here. Charge Only
N10 its
sufficient!!
Headmaster To Teachers " Please
tell all
Kids to Get N30 each - for their
Photo
tomorrow
Teacher In Class to Kids " Listen
all must
Get N50 from home tomorrow
for the
photoshoot!!
Kid to the Mom "The Teachers
have
asked Us to Get N100 each for
the Group
Class Photo!!
Mom To Dad : Are You Listening,
these
school People have Gone Mad oo,
they want N500 for the Group
Photo from each Kid!
Ridicoulous!!
NOW where Will this Corruption
End??
Not at all.hahaaaa
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Nobody: 7:54pm On Dec 13, 2016
omohayek:


Let me ask you something: if you're running a business selling, say, cars, and your customers refuse to pay a high enough price for you to cover the costs of buying and importing the car, while government agencies come over and commandeer your vehicles without ever paying, how long would you expect to remain in business?

Corruption is indeed a gigantic problem in Nigeria, but the laws of economics will continue to apply even if all corruption is eliminated overnight. The fact is that wherever you cap prices below suppliers costs, you get shortages. That's why there were huge queues everywhere for petrol earlier in the year, and why Venezuelans and Cubans are faced with empty shelves in their government-run stores. If corruption were the real issue, the mobile phone companies wouldn't have flourished in Nigeria over the last decade.

Spot on!

Unfortunately, too many Nigerians reason sentimentally than to allow objective reasoning to prevail. The worst mistake Nigeria governments make is to inject itself into the value chain of any industry. It breeds incompetence and corruption. To be fair to government, they do so because they are forced to by political pressure from Nigerians.

The problems plaguing the Nigerian power sector is purely commercial and to a lesser extent political. The industry needs tens of billions of dollars of investment, which it will never get from local and international financial institution / capital markets due to bankability reasons. Our power sector is not bankable and its no surprise that the new owners have been unable to raise the capital needed to turn around the sector.

The DISCOS drive the entire value chain and their ability to collect the revenues that feeds the electricity value chain is hamstrung by non-cost reflective tariffs which are politically dictated and commercial losses due to electricity theft and debt by consumers. With such a poor balance sheet, they will be unable to raise finance for their operations or to even to pay the GENCOs, who in turn cannot pay their fuel suppliers. Little wonder, the industry suffers from chronic gas and power shortages.

These are issues that a million Fasholas or electrical engineers will fail at. Its just the laws of economics doing its thing.

2 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by sweetilicious(f): 8:18pm On Dec 13, 2016
Forwetinnah:
Useless Sadists. .they cant generate electricity but can dispatch outrageous bills for people to pay monthly. The way I hate PHED officials now ehn, i see them as cockroaches invading my space. You look at the people giving out these bills and begin to wonder if they can pay a quarter of the bills they share
Hei! Don't be an angry customer.
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Nobody: 8:22pm On Dec 13, 2016
Come to look at it, Nigeria (or rather IOCs operating in Nigeria) export billions of cubic feet of gas annually around the globe. And yet, the local supply of gas is constantly in short supply. Do we know why? Because the government controls the prices at which IOCs can sell gas domestically to power-plants and industries.

If selling gas domestically is as profitable as exporting, the IOCs would be falling over themselves to do so. It takes billions of dollars of investment to build gas gathering, treating, storage and pipeline assets to get gas to homes, businesses or anywhere it is needed. That kind of investment needs bankable gas supply agreements (usually 20 years). No one would do so if their ability to price their produce is in the hands of political actors. Especially when gas prices in Nigeria are set (by NERC) at around $2.5 per MCF while the same gas can be sold in Asia or Europe for at least $5.4 per MCF.

Little wonder, Nigeria's gas-fired power plants and industries suffer from chronic gas shortages. Its the laws of economics working again grin grin. It will always defeat any attempt to undermine it. Venezuela is currently its victim.

2 Likes

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by MeAboki(m): 8:59pm On Dec 13, 2016
Okeikpu:
Zoological republic of Nizooria
The story I was hearing since I was a kid
Now am almost 40 n still dey hear d same story
Up NEPA then n uptil now


And apparently a fool at 40 for insulting this country by referring to it as a zoo - maybe you are one of the animals in the zoo, unlike the rest of us human beings. angry
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by laudate: 10:25pm On Dec 13, 2016
Onechancearmy:
Why pay for something that doesn't exist? And whose fault is it that billing in Nigeria is so chaotic and disorganised.
Countries which charge more for electricity usually have proper billing management, well maintained infrastructure and are able to provide a reliable service.
Passing the blame to the hapless consumer does not explain the gross incompetence of management.

May God bless you one million times on Sundays for this post! cheesy When people say Nigerians do not pay for power, I laugh! With all the inaccurate, horrendous, estimated bills the Discos dish out and the way they supply more darkness than light, please tell me what do they expect? What stops them from disconnecting defaulters? All of us that pay our bills religiously every month, how much electricity supply, do we get in return?

You give a family of two staying in a one-bedroom apartment a bill of =N=35,000 monthly, for less than 30 hours of power supply every month in a nation where minimum wage is =N=18,000 for the same period, and you turn round to complain about non-payment? Hehehe.... I laugh in Cantonese! cheesy

1 Like

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by laudate: 10:31pm On Dec 13, 2016
kalokalo:
Come to look at, Nigeria (or rather IOCs operating in Nigeria) export billions of cubic feet of gas annually around the globe. And yet, the local supply of gas is constantly in short supply. Do we know why? Because the government controls the prices at which IOCs can sell gas domestically to power-plants and industries.

If selling gas domestically is as profitable as exporting, the IOCS would be falling over themselves to do so. It takes billions of dollars of investment to build gas gathering, treating, storage and pipeline assets to get gas to homes, businesses or anywhere it is needed. That kind of investment needs bankable gas supply agreements (usually 20 years). No one would do so if their ability to price their produce is in the hands of political actors. Especially when gas prices in Nigeria are set (by NERC) at around $2.5 per MCF while the same gas can be sold in Asia or Europe for at least $5.4 per MCF.

Little wonder, Nigeria's gas-fired power plants and industries suffer from chronic gas shortages. Its the laws of economics working again grin grin. It will always defeat any attempt to undermine it. Venezuela is currently its victim.

Guy, please do a comparison of gas prices in different countries round the world, and contrast those prices with what is paid in Nigeria before you start this story. And kindly put the comparison in context with the income per capita, minimum wage, level of infrastructure etc., before you decide to give us this long lecture. sad

Everyone keeps advocating paying higher prices for everything, as if throwing extra money around is the solution to every problem. Ineptitude, managerial incompetence, inadequate technical skills, poor internal operational processes, defective community relations schemes, militancy, totally weakened naira, and several other issues are responsible for many of the problems facing gas supply in the country today. If the root causes are not tackled, charging high rates for gas will not solve anything. sad Please do the maths.

1 Like

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Daniyomex(m): 11:08pm On Dec 13, 2016
We no it's a future impossican't tense
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Okeikpu(m): 9:35am On Dec 14, 2016
MeAboki:


And apparently a fool at 40 for insulting this country by referring to it as a zoo - maybe you are one of the animals in the zoo, unlike the rest of us human beings. angry
ThanGod am not there
I only visit the zoo sometimes
Ighotago grin
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by MeAboki(m): 10:38am On Dec 14, 2016
Okeikpu:
ThanGod am not there
I only visit the zoo sometimes
Ighotago grin

LOL, a visiting animal - ok oOh grin

1 Like

Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by Okeikpu(m): 10:45am On Dec 14, 2016
MeAboki:


LOL, a visiting animal - ok oOh grin
B4 nko
Na wetin pple dey go see for zoo before, if not animals grin
Re: Why Gencos Can’t Deliver 6000MW Target by MeAboki(m): 11:04am On Dec 14, 2016
Okeikpu:
B4 nko
Na wetin pple dey go see for zoo before, if not animals grin

One of these days I must go and greet you there; biko give me your cage number, I mean your address. cheesy

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