bukatyne:


So where does the Umuada come in? Can't find it here

@Gender relations: Aba women's riot and J.P. Clarks' 'wives revolt' comes to mind.

@ancient Igbo wives were expected to earn; was the money theirs to play with? Did they contribute to the home?

@widowhood: hard to swallow. Nollywood & life stories say otherwise. What happens if a widow re-married?

What if a woman had less than 7?

I think I agree with S M Martins.

Really? Nollywood and few stories here and there made you conclude otherwise? Most of the time those who go through despicable rituals have been accused of killing their husbands and have no adult male kids.Nobody will try such if you have sons.

A widow in Igbo society is not compelled to become involved in a levirate arrangement. Although the levirate was common in traditional society, it is unlikely that a widow with a grown son would enter into such a relationship. With an adult male heir for her house, such a woman will not be under pressure to continue bearing children. She would probably depend on her sons to perform the male role in the gendered division of labour and give her other assistance that otherwise might be provided by a levir. If such a woman has a lover, it is a man of her choice and generally unrelated to her late husband. I do not have statistical data on the incidence of the levirate; only two case came directly to my attention during field work. However, I think that the levirate would not ordinarily be obvious to an outsider in an Igbo community unless cases were actively sought.

With this arrangement, a childless widow in a polygamous marriage may be only allocated a potion of land for agricultural purposes. But she cannot dispose of such land since, theoretically such land belongs to the sons of the deceased husband. The land she is entitled to use reverts to the extended family for redistribution on her death. As mother to sons however, she can use land belonging to the house and her sons retain tenancy right for such portions of land.

The women in Igboland collectively have a lot of power. That is why we begin to talk about the Women War in 1929. It was not a riot; it was a war by women. It was the colonial government that called it a riot. It was well organised and they used the strategy of resistance that they had used in pre-colonial era which included boycotting, use of force and sitting on a man. Sitting on a man is the most extreme sanction that Igbo women have when they want to punish a man. For example: if a man continues to ill-treat a woman, the women groups Otu Umu Ada, Otu Ndi ama Ala, the title societies, the market women, the woman can go to one of these groups to report him and there, they will decide which punishment to mete out on him.

Children were very important in Igbo society, apparently women who had given birth to ten or more children were honoured by receiving the title, Lolo. It was also common for a man who had no sons to appoint a daughter who would become a female son. This female son would remain in her father’s home (as opposed to leaving for marriage) and receive his inheritance.A daughter became a son after secret rituals were carried out to aid this transformation. The female husband did not have to go through this, she simply had to get rich first then go out and marry whoever she pleased.

It seems in most cases being a Mother was a powerful position for most Nigerian tribes. You had more limitations as a Single Woman. Maybe that explains why in Nigerian culture it is seen as a thing of pride to get married and have children. Because it was traditionally the event that gave women agency and some control and some power. This probably explains why we perceive MiLs to be too domineering: she's flexing her powerful position as a mother to the annoyance of the less powerful wife.

SIRTee15:

u said women position in the kings court is largely ceremonial......
that's wrong.....
efusetan was a powerful iyalode who wielded immense influence....
Yoruba land had many powerful women in political council just like efusetan.....

This was why I called you a simplêton. Efusetan Aniwura was an outlier, an aberration --- not the norm.

So because we've had one or two female presidents in the post-post modern era, that translates to it being a normality? Having a forkful of outstanding women who wielded immense power in the pre-colonial Yoruba kingdom doesn't mean all women exerted that sort of influence.

And yes, the positions they held were by and large ceremonial. The real decision makers were the Oyomesi, the Aare Ona Kakanfo, and the cult of Ogboni in collaboration with the Alaafin.

You can keep rethreading the fabric of history to appeal to the egos of the women here. The true custodians of the Yoruba culture and tradition would tell you the roles played by the women of ancient Yoruba kingdom, which is: subservient and inconsequential.

Orompoto was a female alaafin of oyo who reigned in the 16th century.....
she even led her tributes to battle and built a wall around the kingdom....

LOL. Samuel Johnson was the one who wrote about Orompoto. Samuel Johnson was an English man who probably knew jack about the history of the Yorubas.
You would base your assertion on the findings of a foreigner which are more likely than not to be inaccurate?

Besides, it's been contended on several occasions that Orompoto was really a MAN, and is only mistakenly believed to be a woman due to the femininity of the name.

Onegai:
It seems in most cases being a Mother was a powerful position for most Nigerian tribes. You had more limitations as a Single Woman. Maybe that explains why in Nigerian culture it is seen as a thing of pride to get married and have children. Because it was traditionally the event that gave women agency and some control and some power. This probably explains why we perceive MiLs to be too domineering: she's flexing her powerful position as a mother to the annoyance of the less powerful wife.

I think it's because women have more control over their children because the men are away from home looking for daily bread. Some hunters will not be at home for days or weeks. So the mother became a central authority figure. There is also deference for the mother because of her birthing children and raising them mostly. But I don't think being single was stigmatized. Not being able to have kids in ones husband house was the real stigma. There were spinsters and unmarried mother's and they were not as stigmatized as married women without children. It was common practice for mother's with a lot of children to send some of their kids to their sisters who are spinsters or those married and unable to have children.

baby124:

I think it's because women have more control over their children because the men are away from home looking for daily bread. Some hunters will not be at home for days or weeks. So the mother became a central authority figure. There is also deference for the mother because of her birthing children and raising them mostly. But I don't think being single was stigmatized. Not being able to have kids in ones husband house was the real stigma. There were spinsters and unmarried mother's and they were not as stigmatized as married women without children. It was common practice for mother's with a lot of children to send some of their kids to their sisters who are spinsters or those married and unable to have children.

In which culture?

Onegai:


In which culture?

Well in Yoruba culture. Married women without kids were called Agan! The name holds a big stigma. I had aunts who were unmarried and we always showed them respect and called them *mummy*. No one ever insulted them within the family.

baby124:

Well in Yoruba culture. Married women without kids were called Agan! The name holds a big stigma. I had aunts who were unmarried and we always showed them respect and called them *mummy*. No one ever insulted them within the family.

I heard that in some parts of my state (Ondo), a woman without a child was buried with a lizard.

Women who miscarried or did not have surviving children were seen as 'mothers' ans not buried with lizards.

baby124:

Ok, you are obviously saying things that you don't know. Telling complete lies out of envy and jealousy. Please don't bother quoting abeg.

Envy and jealousy? Who do I envy, and who am I jealous of? Are you a lunatic?

No one on this forum supports gender equality more than I do, but because I'm speaking facts which obviously does not sit well with you, I suddenly do not know what I am talking about?

It is you who is ignorant for basing your assertion on a few isolated cases.

Learn to be divorced of your emotions if you want to remain logical.

bukatyne:


I heard that in some parts of my state (Ondo), a woman without a child was buried with a lizard.

Women who miscarried or did not have surviving children were seen as 'mothers' ans not buried with lizards.

Yes. In Yoruba culture, singleness by choice or circumstance is not stigmatized. The time a woman is really stigmatized is when she cannot have kids in her husband's house. This is why such couples may go their separate ways and try other people.

Bukatyne, Please don't fall for that troll. You see publications prove what we have all written here. Ignore the person and it will go away.

DarkRebel101:


This was why I called you a simplêton. Efusetan Aniwura was an outlier, an aberration --- not the norm.

So because we've had one or two female presidents in the post-post modern era, that translates to it being a normality? Having a forkful of outstanding women who wielded immense power in the pre-colonial Yoruba kingdom doesn't mean all women exerted that sort of influence.

And yes, the positions they held were by and large ceremonial. The real decision makers were the Oyomesi, the Aare Ona Kakanfo, and the cult of Ogboni in collaboration with the Alaafin.

You can keep rethreading the fabric of history to appeal to the egos of the women here. The true custodians of the Yoruba culture and tradition would tell you the roles played by the women of ancient Yoruba kingdom, which is: subservient and inconsequential.



LOL. Samuel Johnson was the one who wrote about Orompoto. Samuel Johnson was an English man who probably knew jack about the history of the Yorubas.
You would base your assertion on the findings of a foreigner which are more likely than not to be inaccurate?

Besides, it's been contended on several occasions that Orompoto was really a MAN, and is only mistakenly believed to be a woman due to the femininity of the name.

please follow the trend of this thread.....
everybody knows that the pre colonial Yoruba is strongly patrilineal.....
this thread is about the role of Nigerian women during pre-colonial period......
there's no reason to go chauvinism or manly egocentric.....
oyomesi cult is largely restricted to the oyo empire.....
there's more to pre-colonial yorubaland than the oyomesi cultism.....
and women played a significant role.....
read about another Yoruba woman called efunroye tinubu .......
and please...
Samuel Johnson is a creole Yoruba man from the alaafin abiodun lineage......

SIRTee15:

please follow the trend of this thread.....
everybody knows that the pre colonial Yoruba is strongly patrilineal.....
this thread is about the role of Nigerian women during pre-colonial period......

Bukatyne requested to be clarified on the Iyalode and Iyaloja titles. All I did was explain the meaning of the titles to her.

I'm not interested in following the trend of the thread, I was only interested in the particular question asked by Bukatyne.

What exactly are you on about?

there's no reason to go chauvinism or manly egocentric.....
oyomesi cult is largely restricted to the oyo empire.....
there's more to pre-colonial yorubaland than the oyomesi cultism.....
and women played a significant role.....
read about another Yoruba woman called efunroye tinubu .......
and please...
Samuel Johnson is a creole Yoruba man from the alaafin abiodun lineage......

Crack open your dictionary and check the meaning of chauvinism and egocentrism. I don't think you know what they mean.

By George, look at this tool asking me to read about Erunroye Tinubu...LOL.

Please, shut up. No one's doubting there were outstanding women of note in pre-missionary/pre-colonial Yoruba setting. But using a few isolated cases to justify that all women equally exerted such influence is a gross logical misfiring.

[...]

Forgive my inattention, I mistakenly imputed credit to Samuel Johnson that wrote Messiah.

Still, the gender of Orompoto remains contended as evidenced in the screenshot posted earlier.

SIRTee15:


please follow the trend of this thread.....
everybody knows that the pre colonial Yoruba is strongly patrilineal.....
this thread is about the role of Nigerian women during pre-colonial period......
there's no reason to go chauvinism or manly egocentric.....
oyomesi cult is largely restricted to the oyo empire.....
there's more to pre-colonial yorubaland than the oyomesi cultism.....
and women played a significant role.....
read about another Yoruba woman called efunroye tinubu .......
and please...
Samuel Johnson is a creole Yoruba man from the alaafin abiodun lineage......

You are arguing with a little kid. Please just ignore jare. He doesn't know what he's talking about. You can tell someone is jobless when they have time to comment on every sentence.

Bukatyne, let's know if you have more sensible questions. So people that know what they are talking about can respond.

This sounds like a better researched insight into pre-colonial women affairs.
Thanks for making the effort.

edwife:
Economy

The pre-colonial economic activities in Igbo nation was characterized by women-driven
economic wheel. According to Nwanesi following F.K Ekechi, these women traded in various
kinds of agricultural products, ranging from palm product, yam, Cocoa-yam and so on. Some
Nigerian economists have noted that prior to the advent of colonialism; Igbo men regarded
Merchandise as women‟s occupation. Sequel to this, the money accruing from these
enterprises gave Igbo women the power to be independent and to provide them with material
needs (Nwanesi 2006; 33).
The advent of colonialism made the economic status of women insignificant. According to
Nwanesi, in a study of Ngwa people (an Igbo tribe), S.M. Martins maintains that colonialism
induced poverty on Igbo women by transferring economic power first to the colonizers and
more recently to the African men.

Gender and political participation

According to Adu, Judith Van Allen maintains that pre-colonial Igbo society was a “system
of diffuse authority, fluid and informal leadership; shared rights of enforcement, and more or
less stable balance of male and female power” (Adu; 42). She writes that though men and
women were regarded as equal, there was an inherent tendency to see women as
complementary to men.However, due to their enterprising nature and existence of gender
equality, women had equal influence on communal decision. They also had women forums
through which they influenced communal decisions. Just as the political authority of the
assembly of elderly men was recognized, so was the political authority of their female
counterparts (Adu; 43). In a situation where a man was found wanting, probably by beating
his wife or maltreating her in any way, the women forum would impose a curfew on him and
have him reported to the general assembly who would determine the adequate reparation or
punishment. According to Adu, in such a situation sometimes, the women could hold “sitting
on a man” kind of protest, in that the women could go to the offender‟s house from morning
till dawn, singing ridiculous songs and “calling his manhood into question” (Ibid; 45-46).
Van Alle further maintains that the general assembly which allows the participation of every
Adult member of the society was highly democratic. According to her, every adult, both male
and female was allowed to air her or his opinion and it would be taken, as far as it was
reasonable and resonates with a majority of the assembly. She supports her claim by quoting
an Igbo adage which says: “a case forbids no one” (Ibid; 43). However, the problem with this
sort of democracy is that decisions are hard to reach. Nevertheless, they were able to reach
decisions based on a simple majority.
The political culture of the Igbos could be theoretically described as dual-sex. Under this structure, women had their own governing councils…to address their specific concerns and needs as women. The councils protected women’s social and economic interests, and guided the community’s development. The dual symmetrical structure accorded immense political profile to women…The socio-political structure required and depended on the active participation of women in the community life. Their views were deemed critical, not because they were women, but because of the special insight they brought to issue by virtue of their spiritual, market and trading duties and their maternal roles.

The women’s council, also known as the Otu or Ogbo, was led by a woman usually called the Omu, who achieved her status on account of merit. Her roles included leading clan ceremonies, disciplining the women of the community, representing the female population at village meetings, and advising the women of the tribe. Women known as Ilogo advised the Omu. Together this group ruled the women of the tribe. However, when larger community meetings were held for important decisions, all the women of the tribe were expected to be present. Once there, every woman had one vote on the issue in question and the majority won. If a woman broke one of the laws of the council, the other women ostracized her until she repented. If a man broke one of the rules of the council, a ritual known as “sitting on a man” was performed


Women and families


A widow in Ibo society was well protected. As long as she did not remarry, her husband’s family was expected to help take care of her and her children. She also had the option to return to her motherland. If she did, her sons were able to go back to their father’s home to claim their property once they were grown.

In traditional Ibo society, motherhood was greatly respected. Women were respectfully called “the trees that bear fruit,” because the tribe knew that without women to bear children, there would be no future for the clan. New mothers were greatly pampered, receiving a month totally devoid of work after the birth of their child. The ideal number of children was seven, because seven meant completeness or perfection in the tribal culture. If a woman had more children she was considered exceptional. If a woman had ten children a celebratory ritual was held in her honor. After his ceremony, called igbu ewu ukwu, the woman was considered one of the blessed “queen of mothers” and gained great respect and status in the tribe.

source: women in Pre Colonial Nigeria and Maria Rojas '94 (English 32, 1990).

cc: cococandy

baby124:

You are arguing with a little kid. Please just ignore jare. He doesn't know what he's talking about. You can tell someone is jobless when they have time to comment on every sentence.

I didn't know initially......
but he displayed his ignorance of Yoruba history by confusing Yoruba historian, Samuel Johnson for another English man....
obviously he has never heard of him.......
i'll ignore him henceforth.......

u guys are doing a great job here......

SIRTee15:


I didn't know initially......
but he displayed his ignorance of Yoruba history by confusing Yoruba historian, Samuel Johnson for another English man....
obviously he has never heard of him.......
i'll ignore him henceforth.......

u guys are doing a great job here......

Lol, immediately he came on the thread saying nonsense I knew there was something wrong with him. With his mad rants here, you can tell he has many issues. No use arguing with such people. They already have enough issues they are dealing with. Arguing with a little boy that perms and highlights his hair. Hahahaha. Abeg I have passed that stage. Coming to his level will be an insult. I have engaged one such person before on NL only to later find out they were depressed and hated their lives. So since then I just ignore. Can't go and be the cause of someone's suicide.

SIRTee15:


I didn't know initially......
but he displayed his ignorance of Yoruba history by confusing Yoruba historian, Samuel Johnson for another English man....
obviously he has never heard of him.......
i'll ignore him henceforth.......

u guys are doing a great job here......

I have made mention of Samuel Johnson (Obadiah's brother and the Creole Yoruba Historian) on this forum with my alternate account, darkenedrebel. Here's a link showing where I made mention of him sometime in July last year : https://www.nairaland.com/3218607/why-married-women-addressed-mrs/4#47465645

Better still, just type “darkenedrebel, Samuel Johnson” in the search box and look at the results.

Because I made an error doesn't mean I do not know him. I was multitasking at the moment, and I even admitted my error, yet you would gloat about it?

I'm not surprised, losers as yourself fixate on minor errors when they have nothing noteworthy to talk about.

baby124:

Lol, immediately he came on the thread saying nonsense I knew there was something wrong with him. With his mad rants here, you can tell he has many issues. No use arguing with such people. They already have enough issues they are dealing with. Arguing with a little boy that perms and highlights his hair. Hahahaha. Abeg I have passed that stage. Coming to his level will be an insult. I have engaged one such person before on NL only to later find out they were depressed and hated their lives. So since then I just ignore. Can't go and be the cause of someone's suicide.

SIRTee15:

Ha, it's true now. I ended up apologizing to the lady. Make dem no come say na me push am.

Mindfulness:

My apologies.

okay.

@ Topic

I am Yoruba. I don't think I can do justice to this subject, I know so little and would have to do some research.

I can talk about earning power though. I don't think my paternal grandmother ever worked a day in her life. She was married to a polygamist but they had paid help and he provided everything for his wives and kids till he died.

On my maternal side, going back to my great-grandmother, they earned and spent money independent of their husbands.

Niyyah:

Yes pls, no problem
cc Deezou.

Yes ma

bukatyne:

Thanks dear

Hi Am a Muslim Hausa/Fulani of kano origin

Deezou:


Hi
Am a Muslim Hausa/Fulani of kano origin

Hello Deezou,

Is it too late to ask for your inputs?