emekaRaj:
.

But how do u listen to wat u cannot see, how would u know where they are then. Jinns have hierarchy, according to how powerful they are. Perhaps there are some who can see angels.

Remember battle of badr when shayatin that came to support the Katie, flee when they saw the angels fighting besides Muslims.

AbdulHakeem44:



as for number 10, it is correct, Jinn cannot see d angels but can hear or listen to them when they go up to steal information for the magicians and sorcerers

Yes some angels can be seen by the jinns. Not all angels. The jinns cannot see the angels that are on our shoulders or the ones that are protecting us but if they try to ascend the sky to listen to the angels discussing what will befall the people of the earth in the coming year, then they will find stern guards waiting for them. So yes the angels can harm and kill jinns but the angels cannot be harmed by anything other than Allah (swt).


The evidence for the ability of jinns to see angels are so many in the Quran and sunnah that it is too many to list. When an angel decides to show itself even humans can see the angels.
Iblis resided in Jannah and interacted with angles.
Iblis fleeing from the battle of Badr because he saw the angels coming to help.
No jinn can ascend the sky to listen to the angels.


Speaking from person experience, in one of my cases a jinn that was possessing a sister was too afraid to leave because there were some shayateen (devils) in the same room threatening it to kill it if it left the body. So I opened the window and called the azan. This caused the shayateen to flee from the room. I closed the window saying 'bismillah' and they were unable to come in.

I then asked the jinn, inside this sister, to become Muslim and he agreed. Then he said there were two people behind me, who have come to take him. I looked behind me and saw nothing. I asked if they were jinns he replied in the negative. I knew it could not have been the shayateen because I had already kicked them out. Finally I asked him to leave and go with these two people.

If this jinn was lying or trying to trick me it would not have left the body. But it did, by the Will and Permission of Allah. Alhamdulliah.

The jinns are afraid of angels- if the jinns intend to do evil. But if they are Muslim and they do not intend to do evil then the angels will not harm them.
Peace and blessings be upon the final messenger Muhammed (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم) his family, companions and everyone who follow him in righteousness.

Kamal
Former Raqi
http://www.ruqyaqa.com/0078-can-jinns-see-angels-and-are-they-scared-of-them.html

Religion and it’s ridiculous tales ! How does iblis not bowing down to Adam change the price of garri in the market ? Mscheew!

Pataricatering:
Religion and it’s ridiculous tales ! How does iblis not bowing down to Adam change the price of garri in the market ? Mscheew!

Brilliant thing you could have done if you are smart enough was to ignore this thread bcus your thinking faculty can't meet up the standard

Empiree:
Brilliant thing you could have done if you are smart enough was to ignore this thread bcus your thinking faculty can't meet up the standard

You are the one with a below par thinking faculty. If you believe any of these fairy tales then your education was a waste. I bet you'll call any adult who believes in harry potter a nut job but here you are trying to defend this ridiculousness.

sKeetz:


You are the one with a below par thinking faculty. If you believe any of these fairy tales then your education was a waste. I bet you'll call any adult who believes in harry potter a nut job but here you are trying to defend this ridiculousness.

Lol

emekaRaj:
.

But how do u listen to wat u cannot see, how would u know where they are then. Jinns have hierarchy, according to how powerful they are. Perhaps there are some who can see angels.

Remember battle of badr when shayatin that came to support the Katie, flee when they saw the angels fighting besides Muslims.

But i dont understand why some always misinterpret the ayah. I just watched a video just where the Ustaz preached thought provoking lecture condemning Oogun (sihr) and break it down in various forms as practiced especially in Yorubaland. I honestly agree with him. I dont even do non of the oogun(sihr) anyways. Never did.

But i am just wondering why they always say Harut and Marut are Jinn. That they were the one that thought people magic. This is wrong interpretation. I am not saying this to condemn the Ustaz. I support his message bcus sihr is too damn much in Nigeria to the point that even ogun that are fair are also considered shirk. I prefer adhkar generally. That's enough.

But in this ayah Baqarah 102 clearly said Harut and Marut were Malaikat at Babylon that Allah revealed something similar but they did not teach men sihr(magic). This is the ayah again





﷽
2:102
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL


And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.

Empiree:
But i dont understand why some always misinterpret the ayah. I just watched a video just where the Ustaz preached thought provoking lecture condemning Oogun (sihr) and break it down in various forms as practiced especially in Yorubaland. I honestly agree with him. I dont even do non of the oogun(sihr) anyways. Never did.

But i am just wondering why they always say Harut and Marut are Jinn. That they were the one that thought people magic. This is wrong interpretation. I am not saying this to condemn the Ustaz. I support his message bcus sihr is too damn much in Nigeria to the point that even ogun that are fair are also considered shirk. I prefer adhkar generally. That's enough.

But in this ayah Baqarah 102 clearly said Harut and Marut were Malaikat at Babylon that Allah revealed something similar but they did not teach men sihr(magic). This is the ayah again





﷽
2:102
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL


And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.

U see, it is very clear, and ibn kathir also agreed that they were angels, but only came to trial the people and they didn't teach anyone until they say we're only for trial do not use this for evil.
I think most people just have a hard time digesting the fact that they are angels. Who Allah sent down as a trial for people.

emekaRaj:


U see, it is very clear, and ibn kathir also agreed that they were angels, but only came to trial the people and they didn't teach anyone until they say we're only for trial do not use this for evil.
I think most people just have a hard time digesting the fact that they are angels. Who Allah sent down as a trial for people.

I just don't understand how they have hard time digesting. But I know why some insist they are jinn.

They insist because they want to criticize the use of magic by some Alfa which is true. Reason for this is because, I watch argument and counterargument few weeks ago in the use of reptiles for medical benefits.

First argument said the of use stuff like chameleon, frog etc is sihr and it is the jinn they consult to get the job done and he cited Q2:102


Second guy argued that everything is not about jinn. That something similar was revealed to the angel in the same Ayah that is similar or identical but different and good. Like pharaoh's magicians and Musa(as).

But this lecture I listened to yesterday also instructed listeners to check with ibn khatir. But when I checked ibn khatir, he said the opposite which is Harut and Marut are Angels.

No doubt the Ayah was revealed to condemn sihr but it is more than that from my perceptive.


Another argument is that those two Angels were humans. That's, Angels who questioned Allah and they were sent down from heaven and then they were tried by a beautiful woman. I have learned this since childhood. This story is coming from yahud which Christians called "falling Angels". I don't believe the idea of falling Angels. This contradicts the nature of Angels because they do not disobeyed by their nature.


So correct view is they are Angels and they taught no evil. Rather, they received wahi(REVEALATION).

Pls I need more light on the use of some of these animal eg snake chameleon lizard etc.. I really want to know if it accepted by Islam and those Alfas using sand and others..
As for harut and Marout, I watch a video from YouTube clearly stated that there's angles sent by ALLAH as trials but iblis disbelief.... But a lot of ppl make mistake referring most of this thing to the time of Suleiman but the fail to know that it's ALLAH that grant him the will to have dominion on every creature including the jins..

Empiree:
I just don't understand how they have hard time digesting. But I know why some insist they are jinn.

They insist because they want to criticize the use of magic by some Alfa which is true. Reason for this is because, I watch argument and counterargument few weeks ago in the use of reptiles for medical benefits.

First argument said the of use stuff like chameleon, frog etc is sihr and it is the jinn they consult to get the job done and he cited Q2:102


Second guy argued that everything is not about jinn. That something similar was revealed to the angel in the same Ayah that is similar or identical but different and good. Like pharaoh's magicians and Musa(as).

But this lecture I listened to yesterday also instructed listeners to check with ibn khatir. But when I checked ibn khatir, he said the opposite which is Harut and Marut are Angels.

No doubt the Ayah was revealed to condemn sihr but it is more than that from my perceptive.


Another argument is that those two Angels were humans. That's, Angels who questioned Allah and they were sent down from heaven and then they were tried by a beautiful woman. I have learned this since childhood. This story is coming from yahud which Christians called "falling Angels". I don't believe the idea of falling Angels. This contradicts the nature of Angels because they do not disobeyed by their nature.


So correct view is they are Angels and they taught no evil. Rather, they received wahi(REVEALATION).

You know this religion of ours is a very tough one, and I sometimes don't blame some our scholars, it may be that there are group or a sect in Islam that are using this harut and marut verse to justify the reason why they do sihr, and so some scholar want to counter attack dat argument. But even then u can't use wat happen during time of suleiman to justify wat u are doing during the time of Muhammad ummah.

Mustack:
Pls I need more light on the use of some of these animal eg snake chameleon lizard etc.. I really want to know if it accepted by Islam and those Alfas using sand and others..

first all, if you don't know anything about these things, stay away 100%.

Second, merely using these creatures is not a matter of Haram or halal as long as there is no clear cut verse of Qur'an that forbids them. It is very dangerous to Haram what Allah and His messanger (saw) did not make Haram. Halal and Haram are base on proof. Hanafi school, from what I learned is that they are very strict on this.


What you should ask is, what they are used for?. If they use them for Haram activities it is Haram. If they use them for halal activities it is halal. Why did I say this?.

Because everything created by Allah is for our use and are halal unless Quran and hadith specifically mentioned name or gave descriptions like pork and dead animals. These are forbidden.

Example, if someone uses lizard, snake etc for sihr to separate or cause fight btw couple or friends, this is Haram unless the person repents.

On the other hand, if the person use it for something good or something like what they called "ìsòyè" or iliam in Islam, it is good but this brings question like, don't we have dhikr or Dua we can do instead of Ori oka, Ori sebe etc. It is okay but not to the level of Dua.

I never, I don't and I can't eat those things, period. My level of Iman has grown passed that.

Now if you see Alfa who uses lizard, snake, frog etc like they say you should look for dead lizard on the street not lizard that you chase and killed yourself. Obviously this is Haram because it falls under what sharia called moyit(dead animal). Even if it is dead goat it is still Haram. So if Alfa use this, it is wrong but you don't judge him or start "exposing" him because he may have intention that you have no idea of. Like for instance, he probably did it for tout, Yahoo boys, pastor or average person who doesn't know anything about Islam or doesn't know how to read etc and he used "quick" remedy and then repent. This is btw him and Allah. We don't blame or excommunicate him. But if he does this constantly, it means this is what he does for living and a means of hurting other. Therefore, this must be rebuked.

Also some believe there is medical benefits derived from the use of these animals. It is a matter of knowledge. I have no reason to fault this. You know why?. Because most of those medical pills given to you by physicians actually contain animal substance etc. But because they "package" them is the reason we don't condemn those pills. Meanwhile some of those pills actually have Haram in them. Some have pork, alcohol etc in them but we don't question them. Problem with yoruba medicines is because they are too raw. That's why many criticize them. They should have developed over the years.

Another reason I can't condemn the use of these animals for medical and spiritual healing is take a look at story of yoruba actor called Antar Laniyan. Antar is a name of animal not human. He said when he was young he was very sick spiritually and he was taken to herbal doctor who prescribed this animal called Antar right there in Yorubaland. They used this animal by cooking it with ewe atí egbo and he got well.

A Saudi Sheikh of blessed memory, sheikh bin Baz said he never faulted the use of this kind of treatment until too many charlatans emerged, he started to condemn it because they now use witchcraft, jinn and Haram stuff. This means the Sheikh understood that we can not condemn anything that is not expressly Haram.

I just read this yesterday about him somewhere. So now that there is advancement in medical treatment and improvements, it is high time those Alfa recede from them. Although, modern medicine still don't have cure for everything. You still have to come to local level to deal with sickness both physical and spiritual.

This is my opinion and I can be wrong. So pardon me if I am. Thanks

As for harut and Marout, I watch a video from YouTube clearly stated that there's angles sent by ALLAH as trials but iblis disbelief.... But a lot of ppl make mistake referring most of this thing to the time of Suleiman but the fail to know that it's ALLAH that grant him the will to have dominion on every creature including the jins..

I don't understand how people think those things have power themselves. It was Allah who humbled jinns to the command of Nabi Sulaimon. I also don't understand why some Alfa like the one I watched yesterday said Harut and Marut were jinn when Quran doesn't say that.

So I have to agree with one Alfa in Cairo few weeks ago who said Allah revealed something else to the Angels in Babylon which was contrary to what ibliss did.

emekaRaj:


You know this religion of ours is a very tough one, and I sometimes don't blame some our scholars, it may be that there are group or a sect in Islam that are using this harut and marut verse to justify the reason why they do sihr, and so some scholar want to counter attack dat argument. But even then u can't use wat happen during time of suleiman to justify wat u are doing during the time of Muhammad ummah.

I agree with you. But then, their stand is very dangerous too because it is like changing words of Allah. It doesn't matter what any Alfa does. That doesn't mean they have to give change the meaning.

Empiree:
I agree with you. But then, their stand is very dangerous too because it is like changing words of Allah. It doesn't matter what any Alfa does. That doesn't mean they have to give change the meaning.

Like I said this religion of ours is a tough one, plus we r too strong headed.

On the issue of using animal like lizard, frog. We all know wat they use it for, they use it to make spiritual ring, that one can use to fight or catch women or protection. And they use to make love charms. Basically they use it to make silly things.

But like u said if they use it for herb to cure one who is sick it would have been better. But we all know dats not it.

One of my sheikh told me that, just like praying un-obligatery prayers are very rewarding. So is avoiding the doubtful things that are neither haram nor halal.

May Allah guide us

emekaRaj:


Like I said this religion of ours is a tough one, plus we r too strong headed.

On the issue of using animal like lizard, frog. We all know wat they use it for, they use it to make spiritual ring, that one can use to fight or catch women or protection. And they use to make love charms. Basically they use it to make silly things.

But like u said if they use it for herb to cure one who is sick it would have been better. But we all know dats not it.

One of my sheikh told me that, just like praying un-obligatery prayers are very rewarding. So is avoiding the doubtful things that are neither haram nor halal.

May Allah guide us

Indeed

Empiree:
first all, if you don't know anything about these things, stay away 100%.

Second, merely using these creatures is not a matter of Haram or halal as long as there is no clear cut verse of Qur'an that forbids them. It is very dangerous to Haram what Allah and His messanger (saw) did not make Haram. Halal and Haram are base on proof. Hanafi school, from what I learned is that they are very strict on this.


What you should ask is, what they are used for?. If they use them for Haram activities it is Haram. If they use them for halal activities it is halal. Why did I say this?.

Because everything created by Allah is for our use and are halal unless Quran and hadith specifically mentioned name or gave descriptions like pork and dead animals. These are forbidden.

Example, if someone uses lizard, snake etc for sihr to separate or cause fight btw couple or friends, this is Haram unless the person repents.

On the other hand, if the person use it for something good or something like what they called "ìsòyè" or iliam in Islam, it is good but this brings question like, don't we have dhikr or Dua we can do instead of Ori oka, Ori sebe etc. It is okay but not to the level of Dua.

I never, I don't and I can't eat those things, period. My level of Iman has grown passed that.

Now if you see Alfa who uses lizard, snake, frog etc like they say you should look for dead lizard on the street not lizard that you chase and killed yourself. Obviously this is Haram because it falls under what sharia called moyit(dead animal). Even if it is dead goat it is still Haram. So if Alfa use this, it is wrong but you don't judge him or start "exposing" him because he may have intention that you have no idea of. Like for instance, he probably did it for tout, Yahoo boys, pastor or average person who doesn't know anything about Islam or doesn't know how to read etc and he used "quick" remedy and then repent. This is btw him and Allah. We don't blame or excommunicate him. But if he does this constantly, it means this is what he does for living and a means of hurting other. Therefore, this must be rebuked.

Also some believe there is medical benefits derived from the use of these animals. It is a matter of knowledge. I have no reason to fault this. You know why?. Because most of those medical pills given to you by physicians actually contain animal substance etc. But because they "package" them is the reason we don't condemn those pills. Meanwhile some of those pills actually have Haram in them. Some have pork, alcohol etc in them but we don't question them. Problem with yoruba medicines is because they are too raw. That's why many criticize them. They should have developed over the years.

Another reason I can't condemn the use of these animals for medical and spiritual healing is take a look at story of yoruba actor called Antar Laniyan. Antar is a name of animal not human. He said when he was young he was very sick spiritually and he was taken to herbal doctor who prescribed this animal called Antar right there in Yorubaland. They used this animal by cooking it with ewe atí egbo and he got well.

A Saudi Sheikh of blessed memory, sheikh bin Baz said he never faulted the use of this kind of treatment until too many charlatans emerged, he started to condemn it because they now use witchcraft, jinn and Haram stuff. This means the Sheikh understood that we can not condemn anything that is not expressly Haram.

I just read this yesterday about him somewhere. So now that there is advancement in medical treatment and improvements, it is high time those Alfa recede from them. Although, modern medicine still don't have cure for everything. You still have to come to local level to deal with sickness both physical and spiritual.

This is my opinion and I can be wrong. So pardon me if I am. Thanks




I don't understand how people think those things have power themselves. It was Allah who humbled jinns to the command of Nabi Sulaimon. I also don't understand why some Alfa like the one I watched yesterday said Harut and Marut were jinn when Quran doesn't say that.

So I have to agree with one Alfa in Cairo few weeks ago who said Allah revealed something else to the Angels in Babylon which was contrary to what ibliss did.

Thank you.. One more question what about Alfas using sand to foresee something? Although its been done with good intensional on marriage counseling etc. What's your stake on it.

Mustack:

Thank you.. One more question what about Alfas using sand to foresee something? Although its been done with good intensional on marriage counseling etc. What's your stake on it.

You may read this one page from this thread. https://www.nairaland.com/4737621/evil-soothsaying-foretelling-horoscope

My opinion is that, in this day and age, you stay away from them bcus they are so corrupt today. Iyepe tite is old method that some of those old baba used for something else not telling the future which i was trying to explain to the brothers in the thread above before he criticized me. So i stopped talking. Manny young alfas today are crazy. Ignore them. You dont really need to consult them except to make dua for you. You can do istikhara on your own by making nawafil prayer at midnight if you want. Watch the few mins video below where sheikh tried to distinguish fake/haram iyepe tite from the real essence. Get over yewo yewo mentality and upgrade yourself by studying. I understand we are all different from different background. We cant all be the same.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5zQ1bVrb9c&t=45s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu8GbNBBAE0

....