₦airaland Forum

Wilgrea7:
I'm surprised this is coming from you.. are you talking about just Christianity or in the worldview of all religions..??

I'm just combining and making a general statement

actually "sin" only applies to those that believe in a god, the definition of sin proves this

firstking01:
This one is far doomed.

. sure, Allah has doomed you too

hopefulLandlord:
.
sure, Allah has doomed you too

Who is allah, is it the name of a place?, person?, an animal?

firstking01:
Who is allah, is it the name of a place?, person?, an animal?

exactly!!

johnydon22:
The Famous Johannes Kepler once thought that the moon craters were works of intelligent beings on the moon, he observed the perfect geometrical models of the craters and he attributed this to intelligence since he thinks that such perfect circles can not be formed through random chaotic natural causalities - so he concluded that there must equally be intelligent beings on the moon just like earth.

Okay.

johnydon22:
But it's no news that he was wrong, the craters even though perfect circles are in fact product of chance and chaos, random fates interwoven in an uncharted cosmic play.
falling bodies of great speed (e.g meteors) will create a local explosion equally symetrical in every direction therefore creates perfect circles. so you are making the same mistake kepler did and that is placing a limit on nature from what you think it can achieve or cant.

There are certain things nature cannot achieve eg laptops, life.

johnydon22:
Life is a chemistry made mostly of the most abundant elements in the universe, it's an intricate organic chemisty but the bedrocks of this chemistry is also abundant through out the universe - Hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen are the basic compositions in the chemisty of life they are also the commonest elements in the universe.

Life is also made up of proteins and other biomolecules like starches which have never been seen to naturally occur anywhere.

johnydon22:
Johanness kepler once asked while eating a salad "If this lettuce, cabbage, carrot, peas and milk has been floating eternally, could they be that by chance they will at a point meet and salad is made?"

Of course not.

johnydon22:
"yes" was the answer given by his wife.

This answer was wrong.

johnydon22:
The universe has oxygen and hydrogen in abundance do you think water is not a MUST result? even though it is dependent on random distribution of these elements - water is still in abundance through out this cosmos.

Evidence that water is abundant in the cosmos ?

johnydon22:
the universe has every material necessary for life, you are just limiting it's possibility by establishing the limit of complexity you think it can achieve which is in fact dishonest - nature is boundless and as far as we know the universe might be teaming with life just like it has water.

Actually, the universe doesn't have every material necessary for life which is why as far as we can tell only Earth has life. Most biomolecules found in life are seen only in that context and do not occur in any other context outside of life eg proteins, DNA. Furthermore, even if the universe had the materials that is no guarantee that there would be life as there would be the problem of correctly assembling the materials to get life. Random processes of nature could not achieve this. It is curious that you would not expect a bunch of blocks to naturally assemble into a mansion but expect materials to spontaneously effect a more complex life. Note that there are many corpses of lifeforms teeming with biochemicals and these do not effect any life or proto-life whatsoever which proves my point.

johnydon22:
even an organic compound as complex as ethanol (alcohol) occurs naturally.

Ethanol only occurs naturally in living things. From my Google search it shows that ethanol naturally occurs when yeast ferments fruits. That is not the sort of natural occurrence in consideration AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT. There are 2 classes of natural processes: 1) those that occur in life 2) and those that are non-living eg floods, sunlight, weather, snow etc. The one in consideration is the second type because we are considering the natural processes that made life and preceded it. Obviously non-living aspects of nature preceded life. There is no evidence at all that non-living natural processes can effect ethanol. You can show me wrong by forwarding evidence.

johnydon22:
Complexity can also be a product of accumulation over time, you are neglecting the important factor which is TIME.

Time has no causal power, it is the events occurring in time which have causal power. To the extent, that you fail to specify which inanimate natural process that can effect life's complexity then this is an empty statement and is mere special pleading. I have no doubt that you would agree that many human contraptions are complex. I also have no doubt you would not for one moment suggest that these contraptions could be effected naturally. Let's be clear even the simplest life is far more complex than the best of man's inventions. The kind of complexity nature can effect is strictly limited to patterns that spontaneously occur given the stochastic nature of interacting physical systems.

For example, the moon's gravitational effect on the ocean causes the tides. Wind and possibly the earth's rotation along with fluid dynamics causes the ocean's ripples. Snow is caused by the cooling of water vapour along with the accretion of particles like dust as it ascends the atmosphere. What possible natural process can effect and organise organic and inorganic chemicals into a living thing ? I submit to you there is none.

johnydon22:
then again let us examine the argument that "something complex cannot be without being designed" well i am not saying you are wrong by saying God must have probably designed life or anything else but check this.

I see cognitive bias at play here.

johnydon22:
For something to be conscious, intelligent and powerful enough to design or create something as intricate as life that thing must be equally as complex or even more complex.

Not if it is proposed to be immaterial. As such it would be IDIOTIC to apply complexity as manifest in physical systems to apply to an immaterial being. Furthermore, even supposing God were physical or complex if God is eternal that would make this point useless. This happens to be the case when some scientists to avoid the divine implications of the Big Bang suggest that it could have occurred in the context of an eternal multiverse. That eternal multiverse would be complex and would not require a cause. In fact, no theist dismisses the idea of a multiverse by suggesting it is complex and so must have a cause. It is a question of evidence.

johnydon22:
so isn't God definite and perfect?
Isn't God beautiful?
isn't God overly complex?

1) Yes, I think God is definite (as in well-defined) and perfect (as the basis of everything there is perfect or imperfect)

2) I don't think God is beautiful. To me that's like asking if justice, nothingness or morality is beautiful. I think beauty only applies to visible physical things. When people move to apply beauty to concepts they actually mean pleasant or agreeable.

3) To the third question refer to my answer above.

johnydon22:
unless you would argue that God is just a conscious nebulous nothing.

How can God be conscious and be nothing? Consciousness though non-physical is something.

johnydon22:
so using an even more complex thing (God) to explain the complexity of life by trailing the line "nothing complex can exist without being put in place by external design" the argument falls on itself.

It doesn't, again refer to my answer above.

johnydon22:
since God is equally complex doesn't that logic require God to be also designed and caused? But if you say God is not caused or designed then you have by yourself contradicted your own argument by proposing something (God) can exist without being put in place.

Refer to my previous answer.

johnydon22:
therefore we can still apply that pleading, save a step and say that your argument does not hold sway on the complexity of life.

Oh maybe you are referring to your special pleading for nature effecting complexity.

johnydon22:
Chance is a cosmological agent - imagine this, on the night of your conception up to 2million sperm cells swam towards the ovum and each of this sperm cells could have formed a different individual and do not forget that even the ovum itself if it was different could still lead to a different result.

Noted.

johnydon22:
so now even your own chance of existing is less than 1:2,000,000... but yet here you are, it means that up to 2,000,000 other possible humans are not existing because you are existing.

It could even crash down to 0. Because sometimes sperm cells don't reach the egg.

johnydon22:
it was a very slim chance, nearly impossible but you are here - Understand this that something is unlikely or has a slim chance is not exactly same as impossible and given a very broad field of incessant causalities like the cosmos 'nothing is impossible'

Errm. No. In some situations a slim chance is exactly the same as impossible. This is because of the nature of the math of probabilities which necessarily models even impossible events. For instance, one can model the probability that a number of blocks can spontaneously arrange into a type of house using the number of blocks versus the number of possible configurations the house could take. Putting a number on it would appear to make it seem there is a slim chance that blocks can self-arrange into houses but we know that it is impossible and we know why. The same applies to life.

I wouldn't hold my breath that this would change someone mind.

hopefulLandlord:
I'm just combining and making a general statement

actually "sin" only applies to those that believe in a god, the definition of sin proves this

sin in a general sense, that is in the worldview of religions.. before we consider things holy to gods(we've previously agreed that holiness differs across religions).. can be considered to be anything wrong.. wrong is something that goes against our morality.. our morality is from God not the bible or any religious text.. let me generalise and say its any crime against love.. something you won't do to yourself or you won't like others to do to you.. be it lying, stealing etc... then there are sins against the body(restricted to religion) etc

DoctorAlien:
Sin will stop very soon. Don't worry. Jesus is coming very soon to judge the world in righteousness.

ok

ShoProperties:
Why isn't life enough proof for atheists that God exists? How can something so complicated occur randomly?
There will never be enough proof for atheists until God walks up to them and asks them so sit down and shut up… and I don’t see that happening. I enjoy my agnostic friends that question the existence of God. I think everyone who has faith questions at one point or another, but that is what faith is all about.

I am 100% sure you are a christian. This is why we atheists major on you people. You have no evidence for anything but you are the most arrogant religious sect. Yet I have not seen any religious sect that are more stupid.

How is life an evidence for "God" what do you even mean by "god", which "god" ?

So because your colonial masters gave you a bible you took it and believe it holds the answers to life? Lol. Talk abt stupidity. Many of you don't even know how the bible came about or history of christianity. Shame

ShoProperties:
grin Lalasticlala, mynd44 Happy Sunday

Just like ebuka and damogu alias naijadeyhia, they always clamour for front page. What a shame.

DoctorAlien:
It's not as if they don't know that GOD exists: they know that GOD exists. They'd rather continue to assure themselves that He does not exist than give up their sinful lifestyles.

Oh I see? So all the oloshos I am fvcking are atheists abi? The polithiefcians we have are atheists? The civil servants, yahoo boys, ritualists, YOU YOURSELF, etc are these all atheists? You bunch of chronic "sinners"
I don't believe in your god, only an atheist that does not know what atheism is would believe in god but pretend not to? This is very stupid assumption. But well I am not surprised, most christians make up bulk of dolts in our society

johnydon22:
The Famous Johannes Kepler once thought that the moon craters were works of intelligent beings on the moon, he observed the perfect geometrical models of the craters and he attributed this to intelligence since he thinks that such perfect circles can not be formed through random chaotic natural causalities - so he concluded that there must equally be intelligent beings on the moon just like earth.

But it's no news that he was wrong, the craters even though perfect circles are in fact product of chance and chaos, random fates interwoven in an uncharted cosmic play.
falling bodies of great speed (e.g meteors) will create a local explosion equally symetrical in every direction therefore creates perfect circles. so you are making the same mistake kepler did and that is placing a limit on nature from what you think it can achieve or cant.

Life is a chemistry made mostly of the most abundant elements in the universe, it's an intricate organic chemisty but the bedrocks of this chemistry is also abundant through out the universe - Hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen are the basic compositions in the chemisty of life they are also the commonest elements in the universe.

Johanness kepler once asked while eating a salad "If this lettuce, cabbage, carrot, peas and milk has been floating eternally, could they be that by chance they will at a point meet and salad is made?"

"yes" was the answer given by his wife.

The universe has oxygen and hydrogen in abundance do you think water is not a MUST result? even though it is dependent on random distribution of these elements - water is still in abundance through out this cosmos.

the universe has every material necessary for life, you are just limiting it's possibility by establishing the limit of complexity you think it can achieve which is in fact dishonest - nature is boundless and as far as we know the universe might be teaming with life just like it has water.

even an organic compound as complex as ethanol (alcohol) occurs naturally.

Complexity can also be a product of accumulation over time, you are neglecting the important factor which is TIME.

then again let us examine the argument that "something complex cannot be without being designed" well i am not saying you are wrong by saying God must have probably designed life or anything else but check this.

For something to be conscious, intelligent and powerful enough to design or create something as intricate as life that thing must be equally as complex or even more complex.

so isn't God definite and perfect?
Isn't God beautiful?
isn't God overly complex?

unless you would argue that God is just a conscious nebulous nothing.

so using an even more complex thing (God) to explain the complexity of life by trailing the line "nothing complex can exist without being put in place by external design" the argument falls on itself.

since God is equally complex doesn't that logic require God to be also designed and caused? But if you say God is not caused or designed then you have by yourself contradicted your own argument by proposing something (God) can exist without being put in place.

therefore we can still apply that pleading, save a step and say that your argument does not hold sway on the complexity of life.

Chance is a cosmological agent - imagine this, on the night of your conception up to 2million sperm cells swam towards the ovum and each of this sperm cells could have formed a different individual and do not forget that even the ovum itself if it was different could still lead to a different result.

so now even your own chance of existing is less than 1:2,000,000... but yet here you are, it means that up to 2,000,000 other possible humans are not existing because you are existing.

it was a very slim chance, nearly impossible but you are here - Understand this that something is unlikely or has a slim chance is not exactly same as impossible and given a very broad field of incessant causalities like the cosmos 'nothing is impossible'

All the guy wants is Frontpage. Typical of them here, intelligent argument is wasted on dolts like this.

yo

felixomor:
Sorry, Islam is 700 years younger than even Christianity....
Its only in your world an older person rebels against a baby

You dont always make sense, i dont know why