mavenbox:

@Topic: Sorry I seem to be the cause of this thread's derailment. Can someone please help to put things back in check?

Lol, I don't think it's too much to get some smiles between times; and yes, we should aim to keep the thread tidy by focusing on its topic.

Actually, even though I'd seen the thread earlier, it didn't so much move me to make any contribution. I don't know why; but for some strange reason it seemed odd to find myself placed as a bouncer somewhere in a team. The questions are nice to consider; but perhaps there seems to be a missing link somewhere. Such topics as Purgatory are not held universally by all Christians everywhere, as other subjects like Baptism & Holy Communion. Nor yet would anyone wonder what relevance this should be to those who are least concerned about such matters as non-Christians.

Just my thoughts for now.

mavenbox:

^^^ Cool. Now I have a free Chrysler stock image, it could come in useful on a web-development project of mine someday.

Lol, credits for that image is: Abfab limos (abfablimos.co.uk); and I'm not sure they would not consider that an infringement of their intellectual property rights. Just be careful, as you're too sweet to be dragged to court for anything.

I also am not very sure i should have been included in this debate because to the best of my knowledge i have only contributed to topics on salvation and not that of purgatory or holy comminium. However i have very strong views on the issue of salvation and what exactly is required of us to be admitted into the eternal kingdom. Jesus christ made it very clear that the road is very narrow and very few would find it.

Matthew 7:14:
14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

It is my honest belief that 95% of professing christians[myself inclusive] are just not getting it right and have not yet found this narrow path. To make matters worse most churches / preachers who claim to know this narrow path simply have no clue and the church itself has been compromized cause of the greed and selfishness inherent in man. Right now most churches are just a monument to the desercration and division which has now become part of the "body of christ" the church as we have it today is very contrary to the instructions handed down to us by the apostles yet every now and then one Idiot would come up and tell us that "God" told him to start a church and my people would believe and follow him.

The bible as a book[compilation of 66-73 books] itself has not helped matters as it is being used by men to confuse and others. Focus is being drawn away from to true gospel of christ and issues irrelevant to the kingdom[such as tithes] have gained upper ground and prominence in our churches. It is my belief that any true seeker / christian faithful should purge his/her mind of all preconceived doctrines and go back and study the teachings of our lord and saviour Jesus christ which can be found in the four gospels, this teachings of christ should be the standard and any other thing we accept[even in the bible] as christians should conform with his teachings. The core teachings of christ are clear but unfortunately even the church does not conform to this core teachings and that is why i believe this salvation context which we are supposed to debate here would not lead any where. The church and by extension most "believers" does not understand the salvation context even though most people are being deceived that they are "saved". A meaningful debate of the salvation context would require a good understanding of the whole concept in it self unfortunately this understanding has eluded most people.

Deep Sight:

Thus you subcribe to the view of your Team Lead, Noetic, that Mahatma Ghandi is going to hell?

Well, rather than tagging it "Jesoul and Noetic's view", I would much rather you see it as what it is - the biblical view, and anyone professing to be of the christian faith must unequivocally and unrepentantly subscribe to this position. The bible doesn't give the option to cherry pick with portions to accept or reject and still remain in good standing.

---

  Now that being said permit me to speak a lil more on Ghandi.

-Like I had mentioned to Toney earlier, according to the bible, the way to be saved and gain approval from God has never changed, it has always been the same - and that is by Faith alone. It would appear you believe Ghandi's many many good works are his qualifications (far ahead of far less acheived, ordinary people) that will earn him admittance into heaven. That all the incredible good he has done in the world put him first in line front of the pearly gates.

-This is what the bible says about 'good works' done apart from the kind of Faith God seeks from us:
"Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
"Romans 3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

. . . and no one can ever possibly and truly do good. Why? Think of a leper. You can give him a nice long bubble bath, clean up his sores, and finally put on him a clean, shiny silk cloth. But after a while what happens? the sores will begin to bleed again and eventually seep through the new linen. He is filthy on the inside and no matter what he does on the surface, no matter what applications he tries on, he will still remain filthy from the inside out. His illness needs to be cured first.

   - and this leper is every man, every woman, every person ever born on the face of the planet. Which is why no good action will save us - it is faith in God that saves.

---

The whole point of Jesus coming and dying was to save us from this sin and the very worst slap in the face of God is to say "I am without sin, and without need for a savior". 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

  So you see 'not believing in Jesus' is not just 'not believing in Jesus' but also a rejection of the fact that we all are inherently sinful, and hence subsequently have no need for Jesus and the unbelieveable sacrifice He made. This is to insinuate that "I am good enough, I can do enough good to please God and earn my way into heaven". This is in essence to commit the worst possible offense "Heb 10 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"  

  I hope this does some justice to your one-line question 

Jesoul - So what do you think is meant by the following scripture:

Acts 10:34 - 35: "Of a truth, i perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation, he that fears him and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him"

When taken together with the scripture where Jesus says that many would call out to him, espousing their faith in him and the miracles they worked in his name, and that he would reject them, you must agree that there is a very strong inference that all the faith in the world is meaningless, without "goodness" or "righteousness" of heart.

Whereas it is apparent from the Acts quote that people of different cultures and religions ("in every nation" who fear God and "work righteousness" will be acceptable to him.

I agree that we cannot be perfect. I think that a good volition is what is required. I do not, and will never believe that God will regard the works of Mahatma Ghandi or Mother Theresa as "filthy rags."

What do you say?

I cant believe I am just seeing this thread . . .will be right back

Deep Sight:

Jesoul - So what do you think is meant by the following scripture:

Acts 10:34 - 35: "Of a truth, i perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation, he that fears him and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him"

  Absolutely what it says. We see it times without number in the OT, people of non-isrealite roots being commended and lauded for their faith even though they had been taught absolutely nada about the Jehovah of the Isrealites. But Ghandi has heard times without number about Jesus and His sacrifice and he turned it down.

Question. All the incredible good and charity that Oprah does, is she motivated by her faith in God? or is she motivated by herself? or by the many praises of men that she receives? or by that warn fuzzy feeling in her heart? what about Ghandi? Bono? . . . and you are 100% right with this next quote:

When taken together with the scripture where Jesus says that many would call out to him, espousing their faith in him and the miracles they worked in his name, and that he would reject them, you must agree that there is a very strong inference that all the faith in the world is meaningless, without "goodness" or "righteousness" of heart. Whereas it is apparent from the Acts quote that people of different cultures and religions ("in every nation" who fear God and "work righteousness" will be acceptable to him.

  Faith in God must result in good works or else it is not really faith at all. James 2:17 "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead". James 2:26 "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

The faith must produce an action, but this must not be confused with the fact that there are many actions of good done today that are outside of faith, that are not motivated by a love for God. These works abound in great number today.

I agree that we cannot be perfect. I think that a good volition is what is required. I do not, and will never believe that God will regard the works of Mahatma Ghandi or Mother Theresa as "filthy rags."

What do you say?

Well, if they did it outside of faith or believing they did it of their own accord or strength, then the scriptures could not be clearer. "Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;

  Like you rightly quoted Deepsight, God is no respecter of persons. Ghandi means no more to Him than you or I or the killer on death row. Here's a little bit of what the bible has to say about the kinds of philosophies Ghandi subscribed to:

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Colossians 2: See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

  16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize . . . "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
  You see the above Deepsight?

Jesoul. . .thou has done a brilliantly beautiful job. . . . I could not have added or said anything better.

. . . .I am a multi-trillionaire, so forget mazaje, Deepsight and toneyb's proposal and be my wife . . . .whaooo. U have done a great job on this thread.

noetic15:

Jesoul. . .thou has done a brilliantly beautiful job. . . . I could not have added or said anything better.

. . . .I am a multi-trillionaire, so forget mazaje, Deepsight and toneyb's proposal and be my wife . . . .whaooo. U have done a great job on this thread.

Thank you sir . Multi-trillionaire? that one is serious oh . . . lol

noetic15:

Jesoul. . .thou has done a brilliantly beautiful job. . . . I could not have added or said anything better.

. . . .I am a multi-trillionaire, so forget mazaje, Deepsight and toneyb's proposal and be my wife . . . .whaooo. U have done a great job on this thread.

Quite there you liar and impostor, you have nothing. . . . . .Jesoul is the girl of my dreams. . . . .

JeSoul:

Thank you sir . Multi-trillionaire? that one is serious oh . . . lol

He is no millionaire he is an impostor. . . .Will you marry me

nobody to bounce here.

davidylan:

nobody to bounce here.

Just to give u (david) some work to do. . . . . . .

I wonder why dodo and fried eggs are a lovely combination. 

I guess I deserve bouncing  david, where are u?