Does world religions serve as tools for psychologically preparing the entire humanity for impending global tyranical rule?When i look at the profile of the various gods worshipped in these religions, this seems to be the case as these deities are very tyranical in their relationship or the way they interact with humanity.
What do you guys think?

jagunlabi:

Does world religions serve as tools for psychologically preparing the entire humanity for impending tyranical rule?When i look at the profile of the various gods worshipped in this religions, these seems to be the case as these deities are very tyranical in their relationship or the way they interact with humanity.
What do you guys think?

I think u are confused.

tell me. . .why are u an atheist?. . .did ur father die too?

Kindly leave my father out of this and face the theme of the thread squarely.If it scares you, then don't bother.

noetic15:

I think u are confused.

tell me. . .why are u an atheist?. . .did your father die too?

noetic15:

I think u are confused.

tell me. . .why are u an atheist?. . .did your father die too?

is that your new line? your religion like all others is built on belief and not facts, thus you cannot prove God because he don't exist. atheists are those who do not believe.

jagunlabi:

Kindly leave my father out of this and face the theme of the thread squarely.If it scares you, then don't bother.

No, not at all. . .there is nothing u have said that scares me. . . .I am simply perplexed at the ridicule of ur ignorance.
in one breadth u acknowledge a creator, yet claim him to be different from the xtian God and u subsequently call urself an atheist. . . . .these are the ranting of a confused person.

Kay 17:

is that your new line? your religion like all others is built on belief and not facts, thus you cannot prove God because he don't exist. atheists are those who do not believe.

what an amazing display of folly.
How do u reconcile proving the existence of God to His actual existence?
The rationality of proofs/evidence is expected to be gasped by intelligent people making an argument. how then does one convince a dogmatic ignoramus as to the logic of an evidence?

besides, religion grants monarchies and dictatorship legitimacy as authority over the masses. especially, the role of the pope in the middle ages. also in africa, it has put the people in submission and perpetual fear.

Going by all these rantings, you are obviously the one confused.But i will leave you to your confusion . . .
You are obviously too scared to tackle the topic at hand, and prefer to divert the thread.

noetic15:

No, not at all. . .there is nothing u have said that scares me. . . .I am simply perplexed at the ridicule of your ignorance.
in one breadth u acknowledge a creator, yet claim him to be different from the xtian God and u subsequently call urself an atheist. . . . .these are the ranting of a confused person.

what an amazing display of folly.
How do u reconcile proving the existence of God to His actual existence?
The rationality of proofs/evidence is expected to be gasped by intelligent people making an argument. how then does one convince a dogmatic ignoramus as to the logic of an evidence?

Romans 13, tyrants just love that verse.It was Hitler's favourite verse.

Kay 17:

besides, religion grants monarchies and dictatorship legitimacy as authority over the masses. especially, the role of the pope in the middle ages. 

Yes, religions have proved to be very effective in that department.
If you love the god on display in a particular religion, you get a reward(eternity in heaven), but if you reject or rebel against that same god, you end up in a dungeon of horror, or hell as is known in these religions.It is the same in both christianity, islam and judaism.This is exactly how it is in any earthly tyranical rules of today.The carrot and stick tactic.It just reeks of pure entrainment of humanity for tyranny.

Kay 17:

also in africa, it has put the people in submission and perpetual fear.

Would it not be fair to say that most, if not all, of the tyrant rulers who ever "graced" the world stage used the religious gods as their role model?They seem to have and still do fashion their style of controlling and ruling large population after the gods.

Take the "might is right" tyranical ideology for example.This is an ideology that is widely accepted in the judaic,christian, and islamic religions.
The deities that they worship have absolute right to kill indiscriminately and at will whomever they see fit and without any form of justifications whatsoever simply because they are the supposedly the creator.It is their property, so they can do whatever they like with it.

Tyrants think exactly the same way.They always think that the countries they rule over belong to them and they can do whatever they wish without accounting to anybody just by the virtue of their positions as tyranical rulers.

so is your argument pretty much that without religion the world will be a great place and tyranny, oppression and what not would just disappear? If it is, I don't buy it.

No, it is not an arguement, but rather my observation.Tyranny is based on ideologies of varying origins.Religious ideologies are obviously amongst them.

If religious ideologies are removed from the human psyche, other forms of tyranny promoting ideologies will still be around to continue the oppression of humanity.But right now, religions and their doctrines remain very powerful tools of tyranny.

Krayola:

so is your argument is pretty much that without religion the world will be a great place and tyranny, oppression and what not would just disappear? If it is, I don't buy it.

Religion has also been a vehicle for liberation fron tyranny. It isn't one dimensional like that. Just as it has been used to legitimize some existing oppressive power structures, it has also been used by revolutionary and reformist groups. For example, religion (liberation theology) was harnessed and played a role in the overthrow of communism in eastern Europe.

And what about indeginous religions? They can be vehicles of social identity which is vital as a motivator for resisting exploitation from outside cultural and political forces. It works both ways,  U can't just, IMO, focus on the negative.

You may be right in some of your assertions, but the sad truth is that the negative effects of religion as a tool of tyranny is vastly more influential in our lives than it's positive effects.

The question i ask is this, "why do religions even lend themselves to be easily used as tools of tyranny at all?Are they not supposed to function as tools of spiritual growth for humanity alone?Why is the resistance to tyranny by religions so low?That is the question that intrigues and that needs to be answered.Religious ideologies are just too close to tyranny for comfort.The very gods worshipped by religions(especially the three abrahamic desert dogmas) are epitomes of tyrants.Why is that?

Krayola:

Religion has also been a vehicle for liberation fron tyranny. It isn't one dimensional like that. Just as it has been used to legitimize some existing oppressive power structures, it has also been used by revolutionary and reformist groups. For example, religion (liberation theology) was harnessed and played a role in the overthrow of communism in eastern Europe.

And what about indeginous religions? They can be vehicles of social identity which is vital as a motivator for resisting exploitation from outside cultural and political forces. It works both ways,  U can't just, IMO, focus on the negative.

jagunlabi:

You may be right in some of your assertions, but the sad truth is that the negative effects of religion as a tool of tyranny is vastly more influential in our lives than it's positive effects.

The question i ask is this, "why do religions even lend themselves to be easily used as tools of tyranny at all?Are they not supposed to function as tools of spiritual growth for humanity alone?Why is the resistance to tyranny by religions so low?That is the question that intrigues and that needs to be answered.Religious ideologies are just too close to tyranny for comfort.The very gods worshipped by religions(especially the three abrahamic desert dogmas) are epitomes of tyrants.Why is that?

Perharps Tyrants created them. . . .

That is a distinct possibility.

mazaje:

Perharps Tyrants created them. . . .

jagunlabi:

That is a distinct possibility.

There is evidence for that in all the religious text of the Abrahamic religions. . . .Afterall  if you have god's blessing, slaughtering another tribe of humans for their land isn't immoral, it's good, cause god says so. Tyrants us these as a means to justify their cruel acts as tribal leaders. . . . . .  Afterall, if you have god's blessing, slaughtering another tribe of humans for their land or property isn't immoral at all, it's good, cause god says so and god only uses the tyrants(Prophets and leaders) to deliver such messges. Case in point the bible and the koran. . . . .

jagunlabi:

The question i ask is this, "why do religions even lend themselves to be easily used as tools of tyranny at all?

Greed, weapons, lust for power . . .those are things that I think lend themselves to be easily used as tools of tyranny. Maybe if u can give me a specific example of how religion is used as a tool of tyranny then we can analyse that.

Now, u will probably go back in history and state the crimes of the Roman empire and the Old testament, and The Islamic conquests and all of that. But the problem, IMO, is that religion was the only world view then, so everything was seen and defined in religious terms. It wouldn't matter what was happening, it would have been understood in religious terms. And in cultures where deities were not central to their religious lives we still see the same tendency for tyranny. I'm not sure but I doubt Genghis Khan claimed he was doing anything for God. So human behaviour, our vices, our tendency to want to dominate each other has been consistent through human history. Even in the era of science and secular societies. Some people are just tyrants. . .

Culture is a very complicated thing. there is a tendency to impose our own ideas of what is acceptable onto other cultures. People in the west like to look at the Arab world and call them oppressive, but we do not understand their culture. Before Islam, women in the Arab world had it much much much much worse. The prophet Mohammed improved conditions for them like a million fold (exaggeration is allowed. Na my birthday yestaday   ). Another example of how Religion can do good.

jagunlabi:

The very gods worshipped by religions(especially the three abrahamic desert dogmas) are epitomes of tyrants.Why is that?

It's all about how u choose to see it. Because all their doctrines have at their heart peace, justice, tolerance etc. Now, people with "evil" ambition can read things into the texts and use them for all types of stuff (e.g. the extremist interpretation of Jihad).


I'm not saying religion can not, and has not been used as a tool for tyranny. But u are overstating it, and distorting reality. Most religious people are peaceful, and without religion we will still have crazy power hungry tyrants. I don't remember IBB, or Abacha, or even Yar Adua invoking god. . .meanwhile na dem worse pass.

And therein lies the problem, the foundational texts(scriptures) of these religions and what they say, promote, or allude to, which is the use of devinely mandated tyranny to control humanity.
Krayola says that religious folks are mostly kind and peaceful people.Ofcourse they are, just like most other human beings of other religious and cultural backgrounds.Human beings by their normal nature are very peaceful beings, with or without religious doctrines.According to studies, human beings will only kill when their existence is under threat.Apart from that we are very very peaceful beings.Are these foundational texts of religion reflective of what our intrinsic peaceful nature is or are they more of a sort of blueprints to tyranny to be used by rulers of this world to rule humanity?
Now let us take a look at the god of the bible and how he was portrayed by his own supposed word, the bible.Is it not strange that the deity that is supposed to be all love and all wise displayed the exact opposite of those qualities through his utterances and deeds?Shouldn't the bible be the stage upon which we all know, without a doubt, that god has all these positive qualities that people boast of?Should not god be more concerned how his own word(bible) portrays him and in what light?If the bibreligious le god is the kind of god that most religious people like to project him to be, why is that not reflected by his own word, the bible?Did god lied against himself using his own word, the bible?Curious, curious.

mazaje:

There is evidence for that in all the religious text of the Abrahamic religions. . . .Afterall if you have god's blessing, slaughtering another tribe of humans for their land isn't immoral, it's good, cause god says so. Tyrants us these as a means to justify the cruel acts as tribal leaders. . . . . . Afterall, if you have god's blessing, slaughtering another tribe of humans for their land or property isn't immoral at all, it's good, cause god says so and god only uses the tyrants(Prophets and leaders) to deliver such messges. Case in point the bible and the koran. . . . .

Well, we can start by the dumbing down of the human mind.Religion has been very good with that.The less a populace can be able to think and rationalise for itself, the less that populace is a threat to a tyranical ruler.
Another one is dividing the population based on beliefs.When a populace is too busy fighting each other over whose belief is true and whose is not, it loses focus on what is truly important and the ongoing day to day tyranny in which they live.This situation suits tyrants very well.
There are many many others, but let us start with these two.

Krayola:

Greed, weapons, lust for power . . .those are things that I think lend themselves to be easily used as tools of tyranny. Maybe if u can give me a specific example of how religion is used as a tool of tyranny then we can analyse that. 

Krayola:

Greed, weapons, lust for power . . .those are things that I think lend themselves to be easily used as tools of tyranny. Maybe if u can give me a specific example of how religion is used as a tool of tyranny then we can analyse that.

The present day Islamic countries and the pre-scientific and pre-democratic Europe during the dark ages. . . .

Now, u will probably go back in history and state the crimes of the Roman empire and the Old testament, and The Islamic conquests and all of that. But the problem, IMO, is that religion was the only world view then, so everything was seen and defined in religious terms. It wouldn't matter what was happening, it would have been understood in religious terms. And in cultures where deities were not central to their religious lives we still see the same tendency for tyranny. I'm not sure but I doubt Genghis Khan claimed he was doing anything for God. So human behaviour, our vices, our tendency to want to dominate each other has been consistent through human history. Even in the era of science and secular societies. Some people are just tyrants

How do you know that religion was the ONLY world view then? The proponents of religion who were tyrants did not tolerate dissenting views and supressed them completely, they did not allow any form of dissent because they knew that religion was good for them. . . . Religion only appers to be the only world view because other world views were squashed without mercy. . . .The present day religious leaders in western cultures are always crying because they feel that people have way too much freedom and their religious world views are being relegated to the abyss of history. . .

Culture is a very complicated thing. there is a tendency to impose our own ideas of what is acceptable onto other cultures. People in the west like to look at the Arab world and call them oppressive, but we do not understand their culture. Before Islam, women in the Arab world had it much much much much worse. The prophet Mohammed improved conditions for them like a million fold (exaggeration is allowed. Na my birthday yestaday   ). Another example of how Religion can do good.

Religion has done a lot of good, to say other wise is to not know what you are ta;lking about or to be outrightly silly. . . .But the problem is that tyranny and oppression have on so many cases gone hand in hand with religion. . . . .A prefect example is the present day Nigheria. . . .Nigeria presently is dying because of religion, the division and tyranny that it expouses. . . . .

It's all about how u choose to see it. Because all their doctrines have at their heart peace, justice, tolerance etc. Now, people with "evil" ambition can read things into the texts and use them for all types of stuff (e.g. the extremist interpretation of Jihad).

This is VERY false the doctorines of most religion is mainly for the peaceful existence with those that agree with their worldview, you will read in their various scriptures where it says that people should live peacefully with other men, but such statements are later contradicted with other statements where unbelievers are called or tagged   as condemned enemies, worthless people, wrong doers, evil people, pigs, animals, doomed people that will never have it good, bad people that do no good etc, the believer reads this and assumes its true because it is written in his holy book, hence he treats the unbelievers according to the pronouncement of his religious document. . . .Christians can not build churches in the middle east today. . . If not for democracy that has kept the christian religion in check in western countrie hindus would not be allowed to build their hindu shrines in the western countries. . . .I was in Bayelsa state the last time I visited Nigeria and a small moslem(hausa) community where I visited were finding it a lil difficult to eret a mosque because the people there were not welcoming and just didn't like the Idea of a mosque in their area. . . .Democracy is what is keeping the western nations in check if not their religious level of intolerance will be there for all to see. . . .

I'm not saying religion can not, and has not been used as a tool for tyranny. But u are overstating it, and distorting reality. Most religious people are peaceful, and without religion we will still have crazy power hungry tyrants. I don't remember IBB, or Abacha, or even Yar Adua invoking god. . .meanwhile na dem worse pass.

I will just assume that you are kidding right? Yar'adua was busy invoking allah in his last television appearance I watched on TV. . . . .IBB, Abacha all invoked god. . . .The best way to invade another country is to say that god told you to do it as George Bush did when he was about to invade Iraq. . . .Most religious people are peaceful because they have no other choice. . .They can not all do what their various religions teach them because they know exactly what will happen so they just have to embrace peace. . . . .

jagunlabi:

Well, we can start by the dumbing down of the human mind.Religion has been very good with that.The less a populace can be able to think and rationalise for itself, the less that populace is a threat to a tyranical ruler.
Another one is dividing the population based on beliefs.When a populace is too busy fighting each other over whose belief is true and whose is not, it loses focus on what is truly important and the ongoing day to day tyranny in which they live.This situation suits tyrants very well.
There are many many others, but let us start with these two.

The arguments and disagreements in society are not only religious. We fight over civil liberties, we fight over equal pay for women, we fight over women, we argue over whether or not to go to war, whether or not to raise taxes, etc.

Like I said there is some validity to what u are saying, but it is being grossly exaggerated. Sounds like just another conspiracy theory to me.

As for dumbing down of the human mind, education is available. U are not dumb, most of the people I know are not dumb. I know religious people, very many, that don't subscribe to all the superstition and all that. So not only are you exaggerating the contribution of religion to the divisions in society, u are over-generalizing by insisting religious people are "dumbed down". NO!! uneducated people are dumbed-down.

I also don't understand how someone believing in Jesus, or Mohammed or whateva equates to them looking like Lucozade when a tyrant wants to bend them over and poke them!! please explain how that works. . .

mazaje:

The present day Islamic countries and the pre-scientific and pre-democratic Europe during the dark ages. . . .

That is us imposing our cultural "norms" on others. People are products of their time and space. Go to present day islamic countries and see if an overwhelming majority of women complain about their lives. U'll be shocked what u find. While u will find some people that are unhappy, the extent is overly exaggerated. And even if u look at our western societies, u will find tonnes of disillusioned and marginalized people, despite our so called secularism.

mazaje:

How do you know that religion was the ONLY world view then? The proponents of religion who were tyrants did not tolerate dissenting views and supressed them completely, they did not allow any form of dissent because they knew that religion was good for them. . . . Religion only appers to be the only world view because other world views were squashed without mercy. . . .The present day religious leaders in western cultures are always crying because they feel that people have way too much freedom and their religious world views are being relagated to the abyss of history.

Religion was thought to have direct implications on daily life. So the wrong belief was believed to have devastating consequences. Wrong belief was like a virus. It had to be stopped before it spread and polluted everyone and caused the wrath of God, or the gods. that is mostly why dissenters were persecuted. When i say religion was the only worldview I don't mean everyone believed the same thing, but that everyone (at least an overwhelming majority) saw the world in religious terms. . . before science the supernatural was the only explanation they had. The inquisition, for example, was instituted by devout christians. . . just cause they did atrocious things does not mean they were not sincere believers. . . They just had a misguided worldvies (that is obvious to us now, but wasn't then). They did not harm catholics because catholics did not have the  heresy "virus". 



I'll respond to the rest later. i have to step out for a little while.   

mazaje:

The present day religious leaders in western cultures are always crying because they feel that people have way too much freedom and their religious world views are being relegated to the abyss of history. . .

for example? and how does that support this conspiracy theory that religion is helping set up tyrannical rule?

mazaje:

A prefect example is the present day Nigheria. . . .Nigeria presently is dying because of religion, the division and tyranny that it expouses. . . . .

Please elaborate. I want to know how u have narrowed Nigeria's problems down to religion. Not corruption, not indiscipline, not anything else, but religion.

mazaje:

This is VERY false the doctorines of most religion is mainly for the peaceful existence with those that agree with their worldview, you will read in their various scriptures where it says that people should live peacefully with other men, but such statements are later contradicted with other statements where unbelievers are called or tagged   as condemned enemies, worthless people, wrong doers, evil people, pigs, animals, doomed people that will never have it good, bad people that do no good etc, the believer reads this and assumes its true because it is written in his holy book, hence he treats the unbelievers according to the pronouncement of his religious document

That is just people competing for land and other scarce resources. In a world where everything is seen thru religious lens, it is not surprising that their history is documented in such religious language. U have a 21st century bias, and until u shed it u will never understand what life was like in those times. If u were born then, u would have thought just like them. Not cause u are a bad person, u just wouldn't have known any better. So, religion was just "language" of the day, and even if it wasn't people would still have massacred each other for land and whatever else. It's called survival. Alexander the great was not a product of the Abrahamic religions, neither was Caeser, neither was Hannibal, neither was Genghis khan etc. With or without ABrahamic  religion, people will try to conquer and dominate each other.

mazaje:

. . . .Christians can not build churches in the middle east today

From what i know, the only country where building churches in not permitted is Saudi Arabia. Elsewhere there are churches, people celebrate easter, christmas, etc. Even in Iran. People are allowed to be christians and build churches. ,  they just have a problem with people trying to convert people. . . and we know how christians can be relentless in their search for converts. they see it as a cultural/political threat to their identity. It is more of a rejection of western ideas than beef with the Christian faith.

mazaje:

. . . If not for democracy that has kept the christian religion in check in western countrie hindus would not be allowed to build their hindu shrines in the western countries. . . .

That is your opinion. I don't share it. U can't just make statements like that and not back them up with anything.

mazaje:

I was in Bayelsa state the last time I visited Nigeria and a small moslem(hausa) community where I visited were finding it a lil difficult to eret a mosque because the people there were not welcoming and just didn't like the Idea of a mosque in their area

I was at a bar in some small town and some guy called me a Nigger. therefore all white people are intolerant racists. your experience in Bayelsa is not enough for u to make a judgement of religion all over the planet earth.  There are churches and mosques and traditional shrines all over my village. there has never, to my knowledge, been any incident of religious conflict.

mazaje:

. . . .Democracy is what is keeping the western nations in check if not their religious level of intolerance will be there for all to see. . . .

Is all racism caused by religion? what about sexism? what about ageism? your beef with religion is legitimate. . . but u pretending it is responsible for all our problems is just horse excrement. 

mazaje:

I will just assume that you are kidding right? Yar'adua was busy invoking allah in his last television appearance I watched on TV. . . . .IBB, Abacha all invoked god. . . .

Someone acknowledging his/her faith does not equate with using it to justify tyranny.

mazaje:

The best way to invade another country is to say that god told you to do it as George Bush did when he was about to invade Iraq. . . .

What about Russians and Afghanistan, What about Stalin and his Tyranny. . . did religion have anything to do with it? What about Mao Zedong? It is easy to cherry pick examples, but tyranny, in its worstestest and baddestest forms, has existed outside of religious belief. your argument is both hollow, and full of holes.

mazaje:

Most religious people are peaceful because they have no other choice. . .They can not all do what their various religions teach them because they know exactly what will happen so they just have to embrace peace. . . . .

Again, just your opinion. U gotta back it up.

Agreed.

Krayola:

The arguments and disagreements in society are not only religious. We fight over civil liberties, we fight over equal pay for women, we fight over women, we argue over whether or not to go to war, whether or not to raise taxes, etc.

Exaggeration?George Bush(the modern day, democratically elected tyrant) went into iraq to kill millions of innocent iraqis on a lie thinking that God sent him there to do his work.So he had devine mandate to commit atrocities in another sovereign country.Exaggeration?

Krayola:

Like I said there is some validity to what u are saying[b], but it is being grossly exaggerated. Sounds like just another conspiracy theory to me[/b].

Mainstream education is another very strong method of dumbing down the populace through disinformation.
But in this case, by dumbing down, i meant the narrowing down of the spectrum of knowledge.Religions are very good at closing the mind down through their doctrines.
Take religions like christianity and islam for example, their mantra is that the only true knowledge lies in their holy books.Humanity does not need any other knowledge outside what is in those books!Now that is blatant attempt at closing the human mind down to leave humanity with a tunnel vision of the world in which they live.Tyrants love population with tunnel vision.It serves them well.

Krayola:

As for dumbing down of the human mind, education is available. U are not dumb, most of the people I know are not dumb. I know religious people, very many, that don't subscribe to all the superstition and all that. So not only are you exaggerating the contribution of religion to the divisions in society, u are over-generalizing by insisting religious people are "dumbed down". NO!! uneducated people are dumbed-down.

Example of tyranny - Pol Pot . . . err what religion was he?

Dunno what religion he subscribed to, but he sure resembled your god yahweh in his tyranny and that is the point of this thread.

davidylan:

Example of tyranny - Pol Pot . . . err what religion was he?

jagunlabi:

Dunno what religion he subscribed to, but he sure resemble your god yahweh in his tyranny and that is the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is simple . . .

another hate-fest on the christian God, using religion as a smoke-screen.

No, it is a very legit topic that has nothing to do with hate-fest.

davidylan:

The point of this thread is simple . . .

another hate-fest on the christian God, using religion as a smoke-screen.

jagunlabi:

No, it is a very legit topic that has nothing to do with hate-fest.

Please spare me that nonsense . . .

Is religion the problem with North Korea or Sudan or Burundi, congo, Rwanda, Iraq?

If it is then WHICH religion? We have hundreds . . . where are scientology or christianity causing a conflict?

What religion was Stalin or Pol Pot?

A quick question for krayola and davidylan;
Do you guys believe in conspiracy theories?

jagunlabi:

A quick question for krayola and davidylan;
Do you guys believe in conspiracy theories?

Yeah, this thread is a good example.

Okay, do you accept the veracity of conspiracy theories?Do you take them seriously?

davidylan:

Yeah, this thread is a good example.