jagunlabi:

Okay, [b]do you accept the veracity of conspiracy theories?[/b]Do you take them seriously?

I have to . . . i mean this thread alone is conclusive evidence.

jagunlabi:

Exaggeration?George Bush(the modern day, democratically elected tyrant) went into iraq to kill millions of innocent iraqis on a lie thinking that God sent him there to do his work.So he had devine mandate to commit atrocities in another sovereign country.Exaggeration?

Exaggeration, YES!! Because when I watched the UN presentation featuring Colin Powell, I didn't hear the word God once. I heard arguments (however contrived) about WMDs, of secret meeting where exchange of nuclear materials were alleged to have been discussed, allegations of ties to AL-qaeda. Bush invoked God in his appeal/pandering to his political base. but to say that God was the reason he used to justify going to Iraq is a humongous gigantic exaggeration.

jagunlabi:

Mainstream education is another very strong method of dumbing down the populace through disinformation.

Really? Try studying religion at a mainstream educational institution, and then we will discuss just how much misinformation you receive. I just did, and I can tell you that I received very good information, and not a bunch of conspiracy theories that are based on half-truths and in some cases a blatant distortion of reality.

jagunlabi:

But in this case, by dumbing down, i meant the narrowing down of the spectrum of knowledge.Religions are very good at closing the mind down through their doctrines.

your generalizations are what weakens your arguments the most IMO. If u mean FUNDAMENTALIST religious expressions, I fully agree with you. But for you to state that religion in all it's forms makes people silly is laughable. It is unfortunate that the loudest religionists are the fundamentalists. But that they are the most vocal does not mean that they are the majority.  I know scores, maybe even about a hundred, devout Christians. Very very few (maybe 4, maybe) of them believes, for example, that the earth was created in 6 days and is a few thousand years old. U can't just keep putting everyone in a box to justify your conspiracy theories.

jagunlabi:

Take religions like christianity and islam for example, their mantra is that the only true knowledge lies in their holy books.Humanity does not need any other knowledge outside what is in those books!Now that is blatant attempt at closing the human mind down to leave humanity with a tunnel vision of the world in which they live.Tyrants love population with tunnel vision.It serves them well.

your beef is with fundamentalists. If u frame it that way we have no disagreements whatsoever. As long as you want to just generalize and demonize all expressions of religion, you do not, IMO, have a valid case to make.

Krayola:

your beef is with fundamentalists. If u frame it that way we have no disagreements whatsoever. As long as you want to just generalize and demonize all expressions of religion, you do not, IMO, have a valid case to make.

His beef is with the concept of God and His principles . . . he simply makes up "fundamentalists" to justify his position.

Excellent rebuttal if i must say.

I take it then that you don't take them seriously.The reason why i wanted to know is that your very religious beliefs are based on some grand cosmic conspiracy theories involving your god and his armies and hid former righthand man satan and the socalled rebels and how they are both going to fight over the souls of mankind.As a matter of fact, without this conspiracy theories the doctrines with which you have been fed since childhood wouild fall to pieces. Hotdamn it, the entire book of revelation is one big big conspiracy theorist literature.

davidylan:

I have to . . . i mean this thread alone is conclusive evidence.

Is thatr not serious enough?I think it is

Krayola:

Bush invoked God in his appeal/pandering to his political base.

Really?You actually studied religion?How can you really tell that you received very good information since you were given only what you need to know, coupled with the fact that you were already opened to accepting any kind of information that you will be given even before you started that study . . . i mean, come on!
Besides, your own religion is conspiracy theories of less than a quarter truths and a blatant distortion of reality too.See?

Krayola:

Really? Try studying religion at a mainstream educational institution, and then we will discuss just how much disinformation you receive. I just did, and I can tell you that I received very good information, and not a bunch of conspiracy theories that are based on half-truths and in some cases a blatant distortion of reality.

Are the scriptural texts of the world religions not fundermentalist in the nature of their expressions?Pick up the islamic hadith and read it.When you are done, pick the bible and have a feast with the old testament.You judge any religion by what their scriptural texts say and they don't come more fundermentalist than the biblical and koranic texts.

Krayola:

your generalizations are what weakens your arguments the most IMO. If u mean FUNDAMENTALIST religious expressions, I fully agree with you. But for you to state that religion in all it's forms makes people silly is laughable. It is unfortunate that the loudest religionists are the fundamentalists. But that they are the most vocal does not mean that they are the majority.  I know scores, maybe even about a hundred, devout Christians. Very very few (maybe 4, maybe) of them believes, for example, that the earth was created in 6 days and is a few thousand years old. U can't just keep putting everyone in a box to justify your conspiracy theories.

davidylan:

Excellent rebuttal if i must say.

Merci beaucoup  

jagunlabi:


Really?You actually studied religion?How can you really tell that you received very good information since you were given only what you need to know, coupled with the fact that you were already opened to accepting any kind of information that you will be given even before you started that study . . . i mean, come on!Besides, your own religion is conspiracy theories of less than a quarter truths and a blatant distortion of reality too.See?

Again, u just make assertions with zero background knowledge. What do u know that I was taught? ANd have I made one single theological argument? Every (pretty much) argument I have made has been based on either historical verifiable info, or critical engagement of the "evidence" you presented.

Besides, I'm not even religious. . . .  and if anything I'm probably a bigger skeptic than you. But a lot of these conspiracy theories are nonsensical, and critical engagement of the info u present will easily expose that. But as your last post suggests your next step is to discredit my education since u seem to have run out of arguments.

your allegations are baseless, and this case should be thrown out of court. Where is Chief Justice Chrisbenogor when u need him  

Not quite yet.We're not done yet.Respond to my last post above, and we can take it from there.

Krayola:


your allegations are baseless, and this case should be thrown out of court. Where is Chief Justice Chrisbenogor when u need him 

Krayola:

[size=14pt]Again, u just make assertions with zero background knowledge[/size]. What do u know that I was taught? ANd have I made one single theological argument? Every (pretty much) argument I have made has been based on either historically verifiable info, and critical engagement of the "evidence" you presented.

Besides, I'm not even religious. . . .  and if anything I'm probably a bigger skeptic than you. But a lot of these conspiracy theories are nonsensical, and critical engagement of the info u present will easily expose that. But as your last post suggests your next step is to discredit my education since u seem to have run out of arguments.

your allegations are baseless, and this case should be thrown out of court. Where is Chief Justice Chrisbenogor when u need him  

If i had said this i'd be accused of being insultive. At last someone else has seen the truth for what it is . . .

Krayola,please respond to post #37.Abi you don run?

jagunlabi:

Are the scriptural texts of the world religions not fundermentalist in the nature of their expressions?Pick up the islamic hadith and read it.When you are done, pick the bible and have a feast with the old testament.You judge any religion by what their scriptural texts say and they don't come more fundermentalist than the biblical and koranic texts.

What makes your non-argument more absurd is the fact that christians do not act out the old testament scripts . . . infact hypocritical turd like you probably prefer to live in countries founded on christian beliefs.

what scriptural texts were Stalin and Pol Pot reading by the way?

jagunlabi:

Are the scriptural texts of the world religions not fundermentalist in the nature of their expressions?Pick up the islamic hadith and read it.When you are done, pick the bible and have a feast with the old testament.You judge any religion by what their scriptural texts say and they don't come more fundermentalist than the biblical and koranic texts.

It isn't the texts themselves that constitute fundamentalism, it is how they are interpreted, understood, and applied. Those texts were written in a particular context, in a different worldview from what we have today. Violence and genocide were not out of the ordinary 30 centuries ago. You have to contextualize things and not impose 21st century biases on stories from the bronze/iron age.

Think of a gun. . . Is it the gun that is a murderer or the shooter?

You will find devout Muslims that do not understand Jihad as a military or terrorist campaign against others, but as an inner struggle with one's personal vices. And you will find devout Christians that understand the conquest accounts of the old testament to be an illustration of how God cares for those faithful to Him, and not as an endorsement of genocide.

Again, Fundamentalists are a small minority of the big picture. . .they are just the loudest and the ones that get in our faces with their nonsense. But as reasonable people we shouldn't use them as basis to stereotype all religious expressions.

davidylan:

If i had said this i'd be accused of being insultive. At last someone else has seen the truth for what it is . . .

hahahah. Trust me. ,  It isn't because of statements like that that people call u "insultive".  

jagunlabi:

Krayola,please respond to post #37.Abi you don run?

Me. . run? . . . u wish  Although once champions league start I go disappear sharp sharp 

Krayola:

Me. . run. . . u wish Although once champions league start I go disappear sharp sharp

Hope say den no go too flog arsenal.

Pastor AIO:

Hope say den no go too flog arsenal.

haha. I think Arsenal is through already. Me I be Barcelona fan. Today's game is do or die.

Liverfool fan here. Nobody go die for today's game.

Krayola:

haha. I think Arsenal is through already. Me I be Barcelona fan. Today's game is do or die.

haha. una don ja bo. Europa cup beckons. . .

We go jabo for dia too.We be looserfools,remember.

jagunlabi:

We go jabo for dia too.We be looserfools,remember.

haha. at all. I think u have a good chance of winning it. But this is way off topic.

I am afraid i have to disagree with this statement.These religious texts themselves are in parts very fundermentalist in nature and they make no bones about it.Take the hadith for example, it states quite unequivocally that if a muslim leaves the faith, he or she should be put to death.How does one interprete that?Is that some kind of metaphor?If so, then what is the hidden meaning here?
The very vague and openended nature of those religious texts is what makes them so dangerous and so appealing to tyrants.They can interprete them any way they see fit to suit whatever agenda they have and they will still be proven right by these very same texts.
How many times have husbands played the role of tyrants in their homes with the support of texts from the scriptures.How many times have wives been abused by husbands who believe that the bible is on their sides and gives them the rights to do what they are doing?
I still say religions with their scriptures are just too close to tyranny for comfort.They sure make strange bedfellows.Which brings me to ask questions like; Did tyrants create these scriptures for their own aims and purposes?It looks suspiciously so to me.

Krayola:

It isn't the texts themselves that constitute fundamentalism, it is how they are interpreted, understood, and applied.

It is very interesting you mention imposition of biases in the wrong age because that is exactly what the three abrahamic religions are doing, trying very hard to impose ancient stories replete with bronze age bias on the 21st century age.And since that has been the case for ceenturies now, i think it is only fair to turn the table around.

Krayola:

Those texts were written in a particular context, in a different worldview from what we have today. Violence and genocide were not out of the ordinary 30 centuries ago. You have to contextualize things and not impose 21st century biases on stories from the bronze/iron age.

This analogy is quite misplaced.A gun is an inanimate object with a potential to wreck havoc in the wrong hands, as long as it lands in the wrong hands.If it remains on the shelf, then it's havoc causing potential remains that, just potential.With the scriptures, things are a little bit different.They are never left on the shelf, but constantly being pushed at people to read them and ABIDE by what is in them as the words of God, and whatever is in them is the divine law.Because of this, they are believed to be the very word of God and thus carry divine authorities in them, and this is what makes them much more dangerous than a gun.
Guns don't say(figuratively speaking), "pick me up and use me, or else you will end up in hellfire for eternity", scriptures do.

Krayola:

Think of a gun. . . Is it the gun that is a murderer or the shooter?

Scriptural interpretations can be greatly influenced positively by one's own personal spiritual growth, i know that, but it can also be influenced by spiritual retardation to result negative effects at hte other end of the scale.And this is why religions come in with their pollution.They cause spiritual retardation much more than the spiritual growth through the literal interpretations of the scriptural contents.And that is the danger.
How many devout muslims understand that Jihad is not a military/terrorist campaign against infidels/unbelievers, but an inner struggle with one's personal vices?I would be interested to know the ratio.As a matter of fact, this is the first time that i am hearing that meaning being attached to jihad as some kind of spiritual journey to selfhood orsomething.The prophet definitely did not see jihad in that light, judging by his actions at the time.

Krayola:

You will find devout Muslims that do not understand Jihad as a military or terrorist campaign against others, but as an inner struggle with one's personal vices.

No, the problems lie with the texts because of their vagueness at important issues and their ambiguities in others.It is as if they invite religious folks to interprete them any way they see fit and they will still be right."I can be whatever you want me to be" kind of books.That is evil . . .

Screw looserpuhs.They lost again . . .

Krayola:

haha. at all. I think u have a good chance of winning it. But this is way off topic.