TrueSeeker:

Imagine the Following Similarities
Pronounce these word: Alfa - Ifa, aren't they sound alike?
Quran can only be accurate interpret by a Muslim Clergy, Odu Ifa too can only be accurately interpret by an Ifa priest.
Correct rendering of Quran can only be in Arabic Language, one most vast in Yoruba language before he can recite Odu Ifa.
Muslim do competition on reciting Quran, similar things happen among the Ifa worshipers.
They both come from Mecca.
More are coming. watch out!

Your level of imagination is admirable.

While the progenitor of the Yoruba race(oduduwa) indeed originated from 'somewhere in the middle east' (not necessarily Mecca) like all of mankind,the yoruba race certainly preceeds Islam by many generations.

From oral history,Oduduwa's father Lamurudu (which I have come to believe is the corruption of the name Nimrod),left the Middle East possibly as a result of the confusion arising from the Tower of Babel saga as documented in Genesis 11:9. How Middle east became 'Mecca' in yoruba history books, I still do not understand.

While I do not completely agree with your assertions,its not unlikely there is some shared history both (yoruba & Islam)being from simlar environments.

@Jairzinho: « #32 on: Today at 12:44:00 PM »

Quote from: TrueSeeker on Yesterday at 11:04:50 AM
Imagine the Following Similarities
Pronounce these word: Alfa - Ifa, aren't they sound alike?
Quran can only be accurate interpret by a Muslim Clergy, Odu Ifa too can only be accurately interpret by an Ifa priest.
Correct rendering of Quran can only be in Arabic Language, one most vast in Yoruba language before he can recite Odu Ifa.
Muslim do competition on reciting Quran, similar things happen among the Ifa worshipers.
They both come from Mecca.
More are coming. watch out!
Your level of imagination is admirable.

While, theseeker is trying hard with his "imagination", he limply forgot that not all imagined things are reality in truth. Who will forget the Odunjos and the Fagunwas in their imagined "Irinke rindos", "Oke Langbodos", etc, stories that will almost come alike, that you cant put the books down? Yet with all of those imagined gimmicks, only fibble (mostly youngs) believed it, until they attained "wisdom". Its like father christmas/Santa Claus, Trinity, Tower of babel!

While the progenitor of the Yoruba race(oduduwa) indeed originated from 'somewhere in the middle east' (not necessarily Mecca) like all of mankind,the yoruba race certainly preceeds Islam by many generations.

The Yorubas preceeded the Islam under Muhammad (AS), but not under Adam (AS), for the definition of Islam will remind you that Adam was a muslim, and practiced Islam, in the form that was available to his community! Mankind having the same origin (Adam and his mate Hawa) made us all brothers and sisters, the reason Mary the mother of Jesus (AS) was referred to "Sister of Haruun"!

From oral history,Oduduwa's father Lamurudu (which I have come to believe is the corruption of the name Nimrod),left the Middle East possibly as a result of the confusion arising from the Tower of Babel saga as documented in Genesis 11:9. How Middle east became 'Mecca' in yoruba history books, I still do not understand.

Did King Nimrod leave his people? Was he not the king that was ruling during the youth of Ibrahim? Was he not the King that built fire to punish Ibrahim, who was thrown into the inferno? I doubt if an ancient king will abdicate his throne, but even at war will die fighting, the reason the story of Pharaoh of Moses exodus does not make a lick of sense in the way it is told in the Bible!

Kings do not return from the battle front defeated without putting up a fight, yet remained a king to an empty kingdom! Tower of babel assumed "story" must be incorrect, from the Bible, because the period assigned to it, there were already nations and languages different from Babel! There were the Chinese, the Indians, definitely the Coptic Egyptians, and Ethiopias and Yemenis in existence! These people were already speaking different languages, so there was no need to diffuse any people's singular language, because they threatened "God", except its a made up story and or a truly weak, powerless "god!"

God knows the limit of man, and from the Quran's Surah Rahman encouraged man to explore this very quality, challenging man to penetrate the space, with the knowledge He gave. This was well before the space explorations, and we now know that the shuttle has the ability to travel many hundreds of miles deep into the space, yet extremely far below the heavens, even though many landings have been made on the moon, the humans can never reach the gate of the Heavens! So there is no challenge to the Authority of God coming from any and all creations, combined! Below are website addresses which spoke about Tower of Babel; The material employed, according to one Christian writer were Bricks and stones.

I remember Davidylan arguing true to his true deceitful mind that the material described by Pharaoh to Hamana, his chief building engineer, as he was intending to climb up to heaven to challenge the God of Moses, could never can be what the Quran described! Just because it was not popular, does not mean it was not suggested as the bricks of choice, for before anything becomes popular, there must have been a time that it was first tried or hypothesised! Today, introvenious Fertilization is popular, but in the early 1970s, a mere 4 decages ago, at best was just an idea among many in science and medical laboratories!

christianity.about.com/, /biblestorysummaries/, /towerofbabel.htm - Cached - Similar

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel - Cached - Similar

While I do not completely agree with your assertions,its not unlikely there is some shared history both (yoruba & Islam)being from simlar environments.

If slighted sign of any commonality can be assigned to make two completely different things to be inferred as one or brothers, then human beings may be said to be a tree or like a tree, because both have origin, germinate, grow to maturity, live for a period of time and die off! Christianity do sign, make music, etc, clap (lol), and so does Hinduism! I guess they must have the same orgin, actually same religion. They both have human gods, and multiple personality gods or Gods!

@TrueSeeker: « on: Yesterday at 11:04:50 AM »

Quran means recitation.

Quran having its root word from the same as Iqra, Qirat means recited, read, proclaimed. To Muhammad (AS) who could not read, it meant "proclaim" to everyone else, and also recite so that your tongue is used to it, your heart is familiar to its injuctions, so do others. For those who can read, it also means read!

The Yorubas also recite Odu-Ifa and memorize it.

Poetry is recite, memorized. Plays, lie that of William Skaespear, are memorized, recited.

History has it that Yorubas are from Mecca, so that might make one to wonder if Quran is part of what they left behind.

Wonder no more, for jairzinho already pointed out that Quran a mere 1400 years Book, is young compared to the agreed arrival time of the Yorubas to their present location. And who knows how long it took them from their origin to arrive in Yorubaland?

Quran and Odu-Ifa they are too much alike, just try and make some research and compare their story they both look much alike. For example Quran talk much about Jinn, Odu-Ifa talk about Irunmole,

You have ghost god or spirit god in Christianity! Is that not also similar to irunmole? Lol. While the muslim hates Jinn for the most part, for Shaitan is a Jinn, you worship one in your ghostly god!

Muslim talk about Quran descended from heaven just as Yoruba talk about Oodua descended from heaven.

Are Oduduwa and Quran both of the same nature? Oduduwa is in nature of your god, the ghost and or the son or even the father who send dove from the open gte of heaven. Quran are words, revealed in piecemeal, during a 23 year period! Did it take Oodua 23 years? Did it take your ghost god not a very short time, like just immediately? Remember the joke of Day of Penticost, when your people spoke in tongue, just like awo or some jinn/esu in yorubaland?

You just try and research you will be surprised with this revelation.
Imagine the Following Similarities
Pronounce these word: Alfa - Ifa, aren't they sound alike?

Alfa is a nonArabic word. Just like Imole, it has no pronounciation to Arabic word! And not all arabic is Islamic.

Quran can only be accurate interpret by a Muslim Clergy, Odu Ifa too can only be accurately interpret by an Ifa priest.

And anybody, including ignorant people can accurately interprete Christian Bible? I am free to interprete the Bible then and you must accurately follow my interpretation; so get out of Chrstianity! I pray this guy accepts my interpretation. Amin. Actually this is my best wishes on him.

Correct rendering of Quran can only be in Arabic Language, one most vast in Yoruba language before he can recite Odu Ifa.

I know you dont have to speak the language of Jesus to render correctly the Christian portion of the Bible. No wonder the Jews call them "anything goes pagans!"

Muslim do competition on reciting Quran, similar things happen among the Ifa worshipers.

There is no competition in the Christian understanding. Whatever you want is good for you. The Jews do recite, and they have their Torah in a particular language, but thats beside the point. By the way, those who do competion must be copying either or both the Muslims and the Ifa people. The people of acamedia do compete in accurate reading in languages, literature, etc!

They both come from Mecca.
More are coming. watch out!

Two people come from the same womb, even in the same birth, but have different life path. Where is their commonatlity, if any after birth?

@TheSeeker: « #26 on: Today at 03:08:09 AM »

@Habib16

please dont get so upset that you loose control that you become unjust. dont curse anybody, please. try to be calm, ignore the bad manner of others, and dont adopt any, for you are a representation of Islam. your mistake will be a stigma on Islam, and your good will be classified as personal good, having no root in Islam. This is the way the enemy of Allah sees Islam. but in all cases, it is better that no one uses you to justify their own evil opinion of Islam. If you can apologise to Theseeker, please. Theseeker, I am sure habib16 did not mean any curse that he pronounced.

I am just only try to let you think and have a rethink about yourself and your future so that you wont end up blaming your ignorance.

I hope you apply the same to yourself. Let me just excite you for a moment; Jesus is a slave of his Lord God. In Yoruba language I called that God Yoruba. In Arabc I call that God Allah. We already know His name in English. Please proof me wrong that Jesus is not a slave. I will use your Bible to support my statement. If after that you refuse to get out of Christianity, which takes Jesus, a slave of Allah, as god, you will end up blaming your ignorance!

I hope you understand Yoruba Literature? In Yoruba belief as stated in the book "Asa ati Ise Yoruba" by C. L. Adeoye,(mine was giving to me free in the days of free education) Obatala is belief to be a god that helps in creation, he will add mouth, nose and eyes to human to make them alive.

Help in creation? How many of them creating or who is he helping? I hope you understand yoruba literature and word and its origin?

Obatala is equally known as Orisaala, Orisaala can mean Orisa Ala and according to a reference work Allah "was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, , the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia" -Wikipedia

Orisaala, does not mean Orisa ala, for ala in yoruba means dream or white (funfun), plain color. Orisaala is your pronounciation or that of the writer, instead of Orisanla; the big god! The big god is very appropriate even today in the exegese of Trinity, for we read that the big god (father) was the one speaking while son god and ghost god (smaller gods) were mute/silent in the statement of creation of man as in "lets make man in our own image." We see that since you said Jesus is god, he had a mouth, eyes, etc. Lol, TheSeeker, you kinda rubbish Christianity. Thank God who instigated your opening of this thread!

Orisa (deity) + Allah = Orisaala, I think that make a sense to you.

You are from Modakeke, or Ife, or some place like that where they dont know how to pronounce nla! My people from that part of yorubaland, please forgive me; am an ijebuboy, and we pronounce many words badly too. But it is your amuni buni eron ibiye [theseeker] that brought this upon himself, unfortunately, all of you! Let me rubbish you even further, theseeker; if ala now translate to Allah, hence your Orisaala, what will Eloi, said by Jesus translate to? Remember language is oral/vocal before it comes written down and read!

aala means white in Yoruba land, we use to see Ifa and Obataala worshipers dressing in white garment during their festivals, does that not similar to the dressing we use to see in tv when people go to Kaaba for worship around the black stone in Mecca.

I thought ala is plain color? Lets just accept it as white. In yorubaland, and indeed nigeria, what color do you guys wear to Church; the Cele, the Aladuras, etc? Is it nnot white? Hiram worn in hajj, symbolises death, and it is not a festival clothing, and hajj is not a festival! The jews when they die, they wash their people and shroud the, just like the muslims, or very similar. Unlike you in agbada, or worse suit! I dont know where you are going with these imaginations, but am not feeling it!

[/quote]Yoruba use to say "Ara Ifa ni Fatima wa" meaniing Fatima is part of Ifa. Fatima is an arabic name but Ifa is a Yoruba deity (Orunmila is equally refer to as Ifa).[quote]

There is our lady of Fatima in christianity. There is a town called Fatima in Christian Spain! I bet it must have something to do with Islam and or Ifa of Yorubaland, too?

Hence we use to have name like Ifatunde = Fatunde, Ifadairo = Fadairo in Yoruba land. So do you think that all these following arabic names are just coincidental with Ifa, name like: Fatai (Ifatai) Faruok (Ifaruoku), Falilat (Ifalila), Fatimat - (Ifatimo) and so on.

Ara oko. No ara egon ni ogebni yi. He is so funny in his deceit. Fatimah, Fathah, Falilah, Faruuq, have no bearing to Ifa, man. Faruuq is a nickname of strength, firmness given to Umar bin Khattab. Fath, is Victory, an Attribute of Allah the Almighty. Listen, if Ifa idolatry is going to have a second look, based on your argument to Islam, it should have had something derived to the names of the human messenger unique only to Islam, the Makkan Muhammad, Ahmad, Mustapha, etc (AS)! Where is it man? Iro fo wo omode yi, nfun!

More is coming, Watch Out for Part 2, have you watch this Nigerian home video titled "Oodua"? it is a good reference work.

Lol. Ara ufe. Thats how the ijebu people call Ife people.

olabowale:

The Yorubas preceeded the Islam under Muhammad (AS), [s]but not under Adam (AS), for the definition of Islam will remind you that Adam was a muslim, and practiced Islam, in the form that was available to his community![/s] Mankind having the same origin (Adam and his mate Hawa) made us all brothers and sisters, the reason Mary the mother of Jesus (AS) was referred to "Sister of Haruun"!

Baseless assumption-Islam has foundation based entirely on the Qur'an and this was revealed to Prophet Mohammed, so it cannot exist before the prophet mohammed,just like me claiming Adam or Abraham were christians and please lets not waste time on that,you're a muslim. . . .you're entitled to your opinion,I'll stick to mine. . . thank you very much ! And repeating your assumptions  over & over again cannot change my opinion,so I'll advise you don't waste your time,so we don't descend to childish exchanges.

olabowale:

Did King Nimrod leave his people? Was he not the king that was ruling during the youth of Ibrahim? Was he not the King that built fire to punish Ibrahim, who was thrown into the inferno? I doubt if an ancient king will abdicate his throne, but even at war will die fighting, the reason the story of Pharaoh of Moses exodus does not make a lick of sense in the way it is told in the Bible!
hundreds of miles deep into the space, yet extremely far below the heavens, even though many landings have been made on the moon, the humans can never reach the gate of the Heavens! So there is no challenge to the Authority of God coming from any and all creations, combined! Below are website addresses which spoke about Tower of Babel; The material employed, according to one Christian writer were Bricks and stones.

Again you employ pseudo-intellectual arguments,3 religions have this story of Nimrod/Babel-Islam,Christianity & Judaism,only the Islamic version is different,incoherent or all together non-existent,I wonder why you're trying to refute a story that does not clearly exist in your holy book

. No one said anything about anyone running anywhere,Lamurudu according to oral yoruba mythology was the father of oduduwa,this should be taken literarily as he may not necessarily be 'the biological father' as the word father could have come into the narratives as it passed from generation to generation. The linkage of Lamurudu to Nimrod is essentially my own,I have not seen it any where else,I rest my case.

@Jairzinho: « #36 on: Today at 05:16:07 PM »  

Baseless assumption-Islam has foundation based entirely on the Qur'an and this was revealed to Prophet Mohammed, so it cannot exist before the prophet mohammed,just like me claiming Adam or Abraham were christians and please lets not waste time on that,you're a muslim. . . .you're entitled to your opinion,I'll stick to mine. . . thank you very much ! And repeating your assumptions  over & over again cannot change my opinion,so I'll advise you don't waste your time,so we don't descend to childish exchanges.

Childish exchanges my foot, and its only you that will engage in it. While you keep your position, ignorantly like a mule, the truth is the truth. I hope you are not going to stake your life on any statement that Adam and or Ibrahim were or was a Jew, a religion that was not in existence even until after Jesus, for religion is not the same as the ethnicity?! You will not argue either that Adam and Ibrahim did not have the same religion, or were not religious, for the worshipped their Creator? Is it not true that Islam simply means submission to the Will/Commitment/etc of the Creator?

Did Ibrahim submitted to his family idolatry? I am asking myself if a group of people from say Ghana who are blacksmith/iron worker worship a god based on their trade, and it is symbolised by Iron efigee, they must be ogun worshippers, based on how the yorubas understanding, though the Ghanaians may never say it is Ogun worship. Do you agree or disagree? The other day, we say a clip about Witchcraft religion. In the US, the witchcraft people wear black clothing, and have group sexual orgies. I dont think it is exactly the same in Yorubaland, or Igboland, or other african cultures. Yet they are all witches, even in a contemporary time, which is now. Let us then imagine the Islam of Adam that would have to be so basic, since in his lifetime, you had only his family and no other people.

The Islam of Noah would be based on what led people to be saved in the boat, while it must be against what made people perish! Islam of Ibrahim will have to be more than the basic one practiced by Noah. For example, we see that the essence of Lut, a contemporary of Ibrahim was purely against the evil of sexual deviance! Was Lut a Jew, Jairzinho? Argue with sense and not with digging yor heel so stubbornly in the ground of ignorance. I dont wanna us the tongue out emocon on you! I want you to not be blind, even as you are standing arrogantly!

Again you employ pseudo-intellectual arguments,3 religions have this story of Nimrod/Babel-Islam,Christianity & Judaism,only the Islamic version is different,incoherent or all together non-existent,I wonder why you're trying to refute a story that does not clearly exist in your holy book

What is pseudo intellectual is your argument, think that its not existence can not certainly translate to the fact that it is a lie! I gave you websites for a purpose, man. Use it to refute me. It was absolutely impossible to build a structure (building with mortar or stone or etc) that will extend, to the heavens. No structure of that kind is possible. The tafsir of when Pharaoh said it in Quran simply pointed out that the hypocrite Hamana did not tell the tyrannical Pharaoh that such a structure he arrogantly asked for can never be built! And the reason I am trying to refute the story is that there is no truth in it and I cant just laydown and let you plant a seek of lies with it. There are people who will fall for it. Afterall, you see many falling for Trinity, man god, while they argue blindly about wrapping them, still under ONE GOD? Are you listening to me, Jairzinho?

. No one said anything about anyone running anywhere,Lamurudu according to oral yoruba mythology was the father of oduduwa,this should be taken literarily as he may not necessarily be 'the biological father' as the word father could have come into the narratives as it passed from generation to generation.

While I will not argue Yoruba mythology with you, do you see the possibilty of beloved slave, Jesus and his children of Israel people suddenly calling themselves children of "GOD"? There is a yoruba saying: Tia ba ka eru, inu eru aba je. This simply means that a slave blood that rose in rank and became beloved, even as he moves freely in the court with free and the princely, he may just forget that he is a slave, so he demanded from the king that they should have a head count on the slaves. Surprise, surprise, he was counted among them!

The linkage of Lamurudu to Nimrod is essentially my own,I have not seen it any where else,I rest my case.

And to have allowed you to perpetrate a fraud in form of argument, will be an indictment against  clear minded people, who will stand idly to let your injustice run amock in the mind of innocent people. This is why I nip it in the bud, before it festered. I hereby rest my case!

olabowale:

Childish exchanges my foot, and its only you that will engage in it. While you keep your position, ignorantly like a mule, the truth is the truth. I hope you are not going to stake your life on any statement that Adam and or Ibrahim were or was a Jew, a religion that was not in existence even until after Jesus, for religion is not the same as the ethnicity?! You will not argue either that Adam and Ibrahim did not have the same religion, or were not religious, for the worshipped their Creator? Is it not true that Islam simply means submission to the Will/Commitment/etc of the Creator?

You are getting angrier & angrier, what’s the problem? Is everything okay? This is not the normally level headed olabowale ,I’m used to.
HOW CAN YOU SAY JUDAISM DID NOT EXIST UNTIL AFTER JESUS??!!! Surely you’re joking??
Zechariah,the father of John the Baptist 9Prophet yahia in Arabic)was a priest,the old testament is replete with information on Levi priests, Aaron, Moses elder brother was a priest. What has these got to do with ethnicity?
THE PASSOVER FEAST IS STILL CELEBRATED TODAY by Jews , pre-dates  Jesus.
You normally research before you post, I’m sure you’re tired, pls take your time next time around.

Abraham & Adam could not have been muslims because:
The Five Pillars of islam are: shadadah, salah, zakat, hajj & fasting. Please show me where Adam and Abraham went through this either in the Qura’n or in the Bible.

olabowale:

The Islam of Noah would be based on what led people to be saved in the boat, while it must be against what made people perish! Islam of Ibrahim will have to be more than the basic one practiced by Noah. For example, we see that the essence of Lut, a contemporary of Ibrahim was purely against the evil of sexual deviance! Was Lut a Jew, Jairzinho? Argue with sense and not with digging yor heel so stubbornly in the ground of ignorance. I dont wanna us the tongue out emocon on you! I want you to not be blind, even as you are standing arrogantly!

You sir are the one standing ignorantly,if you claim Judaism started after Jesus ,when it is recorded he was teaching in the synagogue at age 12 ,to the amazement of the teachers of the law (Pharasees)
Just open your mind sir & don’t throw insults around. I’m not digging my heel into anything. . . provide back up to your claims & we are in business.

olabowale:

What is pseudo intellectual is your argument, think that its not existence can not certainly translate to the fact that it is a lie! I gave you websites for a purpose, man. Use it to refute me. It was absolutely impossible to build a structure (building with mortar or stone or etc) that will extend, to the heavens. No structure of that kind is possible. The tafsir of when Pharaoh said it in Quran simply pointed out that the hypocrite Hamana did not tell the tyrannical Pharaoh that such a structure he

Its pseudo-intellectual because you type so much and present is as if you have facts ,whereas  your  entire post is devoid of any coherent fact, but  premised on baseless assumptions. Islam is based on the 5 pillars ! I visited the websites and all the information was at best incoherent.
From the Bible,Nimrod was the great-grand son of Noah,so you can take it from there,as for ability to build a building to reach the heaven,I will stick to my Holy book

olabowale:

The Islam of Noah would be based on what led people to be saved in the boat, while it must be against what made people perish! Islam of Ibrahim will have to be more than the basic one practiced by Noah. For example, we see that the essence of Lut, a contemporary of Ibrahim was purely against the evil of sexual deviance! Was Lut a Jew, Jairzinho? Argue with sense and not with digging yor heel so stubbornly in the ground of ignorance. I dont wanna us the tongue out emocon on you! I want you to not be blind, even as you are standing arrogantly!

You sir are the one standing ignorantly,if you claim Judaism started after Jesus ,when it is recorded he was teaching in the synagogue at age 12 ,to the amazement of the teachers of the law (Pharasees)
Just open your mind sir & don’t throw insults around. I’m not digging my heel into anything. . . provide back up to your claims & we are in business.

olabowale:

While I will not argue Yoruba mythology with you, do you see the possibilty of beloved slave, Jesus and his children of Israel people suddenly calling themselves children of "GOD"? There is a yoruba saying: Tia ba ka eru, inu eru aba je. This simply means that a slave blood that rose in rank and became beloved, even as he moves freely in the court with free and the princely, he may just forget that he is a slave, so he demanded from the king that they should have a head count on the slaves. Surprise, surprise, he was counted among them!
And to have allowed you to perpetrate a fraud in form of argument, will be an indictment against  clear minded people, who will stand idly to let your injustice run amock in the mind of innocent people. This is why I nip it in the bud, before it festered. I hereby rest my case!   

And please respect my beliefs,I have not insulted the Holy prophet or the Islamic faith,let your age be reflected in your posts sir,you are not Abuzola !
You can’t rest your case because you haven’t added anything new to the discourse.

Jairzinho and the seeker.i can see ur level of imagination is quite childish n blasphemous.the writers of d bible allowed this kind of imaginations to influence dem while writin n in d process they imagined trinity,crucifiction,holy ghost n alot more.they went ahead to include such blasphemies in the bible.today,no christian can actually give u a convincing explanation on dz issues.so u both shuld b busy addressin dz atrocities instead of tryin to campare white n black.

Punkinmusty:

Jairzinho and the seeker.i can see your level of imagination is quite childish n blasphemous.the writers of d bible allowed this kind of imaginations to influence dem while writin n in d process they imagined trinity,crucifiction,holy ghost n alot more.they went ahead to include such blasphemies in the bible.today,no christian can actually give u a convincing explanation on dz issues.so u both shuld b busy addressin dz atrocities instead of tryin to campare white n black.

READ before you make comments my friend. God gave you eyes to read ! Jairzinho and the seeker are on different wavelengths on this one (I hope you understand what that means )

@Jairzinho: « #38 on: Today at 01:41:02 AM »  
[Quote]You are getting angrier & angrier,[/quote]you must be a seer of the unseen to know my state of mind? i dont think your or what you wrote, so dont make yourself important man.

what’s the problem? Is everything okay? This is not the normally level headed olabowale ,I’m used to.

i have no problems, man, so stop sweating it. am talkiing to a nairalander who is like my own daughter. chill, man.

HOW CAN YOU SAY JUDAISM DID NOT EXIST UNTIL AFTER JESUS??!!! Surely you’re joking??

Am not. And thats a fact.

Zechariah,the father of John the Baptist 9Prophet yahia in Arabic)was a priest,the old testament is replete with information on Levi priests, Aaron, Moses elder brother was a priest. What has these got to do with ethnicity?

Jew or Judaism, a religion of the Jewish tribes, was not practiced by any prophet, including Zachariah, his son John, Jesus, and those before them! A priest does not have to be a Jewish religion priest, since you have priesthood among the Christians, now! Did the religion of Aaron different from that of Moses? No. Was Moses of a different religion from Noah, or from Ibrahim (AS)? No. Did the religion of Noah different from that of Ibrahim? No. When was the word Jew or Judaism ever used? Check your Bible: Jew as a tribe is coined from Judah, a son of Jacob. It was only a tribe and not a religion, but one of the 12 nations of the children of Israel/jacob at the drinking wells!

It was later used, as Judea, a nation along with nation of Israel, after the death of the son of King Solomon, when as Biblical Go punished them by tearing them into 2 nations! It was never use as a religion at no time, but alwats as an identity of ethic people, when the single tribe absorbed all the others, and their collective identity "Children of Israel" was dropped for it! Today, those who know enough about them will let you know that the Book known as Mishnash and Mamodian, etc were not known to anyone, including Jesus, your human God! What we find, from your Bible, is that Jesus was correcting the hypocracy of his people as he said, "i am but sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Whats the qualification for being a lost sheep, except deviation from Torah of Moses and Sabur of Daud (AS)?

Jesus said to not cancel the laws and the prophets. Neither is an indication of a religion, and when Jesus said worship God alone, and ignore everything else, it means innovations; books and methodologies! Show me the "ark of covenant, and those things that Moses brought in his form of religion of Islam"? The Jews of Today in their religious services bop their heads towards the Wailing wall! Moses did not do that. Jesus did not do that! The religion of Jesus was the religion of Moses! Today, the Jews have some kind of leather band on the head "similar" to coal  miner's head lamps or a bandana. Please tell me if Jesus used to wear that? Again give me the qualitative elements of "the lost sheep" of the house of Israel?

THE PASSOVER FEAST IS STILL CELEBRATED TODAY by Jews , pre-dates  Jesus.

I have been in many Jewish homes. My senior legal adviser is a Judge in Nevada, a Jewish man who is like a nephew to me. We lived together when I was living out there. Fred is a Jew in New York New Jersey and a VP of my Company. I know many in Borough park/Fort hamilton Parkway in Brooklyn. Sam, probably dead now, if he were to be alive will be 97, in Manhattan's 73rd Street was my attorney for 10 years straight. Nathan, who was a Rabbi of the Labovitch of Eastern Parkway was so close to me in the 1990s. I say all of these to mean what; did Passover rites occurred as part of the development of the "Jewish rites?" Of course not! When, the Children of Israel wereslaves in Egypt, they were simply called 'hebrew' based on their origin, and remnant of language' spoken. They were not in any place referred to as Jew, neither by by ethnicity, nor by religion! Their religion is based only on their not being oppressive like the Egyptian, but in addition being patient in belief of God! When were they Jews, Jairzinho! I have been in may homes of Jews, attended their Sedas. Have you. Seriously?

You normally research before you post, I’m sure you’re tired, pls take your time next time around.

Am not tired. It seems to me that you are the one who is probably tired, since beer and all the trimings of New Year's eve and New Year's day must have flowed liberally with you.

Abraham & Adam could not have been muslims because:
The Five Pillars of islam are: shadadah, salah, zakat, hajj & fasting. Please show me where Adam and Abraham went through this either in the Qura’n or in the Bible.

Shahadah is the most important. Those born into Islamic homes dont have to take shahadah when they become practicers of what you listed. Those who never practiced any religion as they reach puberty, even if they are from Ogun worshipper's home, they do not have to take any shahadah, for the pen is lifted before puberty! Now, the salah of Adam might have been just 2 salah and not five. For example, we read that Jesus made prostration and prayed in some parts of the night (Quyam), and I asked you to see the below that some christians and jews are still doing it like Muslims of Today; Youtube: Early Christian Prayer and mysticism.
                                                                                                          Possible origin of Islamic Prostration.
                                                                                                          The Jesus Prayer
                                                                                                          Ethiopian orthodox christian prostration in prayer
                                                                                                          An Ethiopian orthodox Easter in Lalibela
The Jews have the same sets of videos: Prostration in daily Jewish prayer.
                                                               Daily Jewish prayer and submssion.
Am sure you will find a good size library, so help yourself. As for Zakah, who should Adam give Zakat to, when he was the father of his children, husband of his wife, and grandfather of his grandchildren, all of them he is responsible for, naturally? Hajj, was prescribed by the call of Ibrahim (AS)  and not before. Saum, fasting: a great testament to the Islam of Jesus, Moses, and others. While it was compulsory for Jesus to fast, it is not compulsory on you, a man who claims to follow him, while in reality you follwo Paul, and company, the developers of the Christian doctrines!

The rest of your retorts, I leave alone, because they are not relevant to me. Are you okay man? I hope the hangover wears off, soon.

this topic is cultural, not religious.


na so the holy warriors go scatter am now as if history vanished when they were born.


anyway, the fact that oduduwa met people in Ife doesnt mean the people he met also didnt have a history.

Tpia, se emi lo nba soro? O kare.

@Olabowale

Before you start making your frivolous argument. Have you ever give it a consideration that others might at some time right when you can be at wrong side? Or you believe that you will be always right even when you might have a different view from other Islamic scholars? even on issues that Qu'ran did not even mentioned.

For example on issue of Tower of Babel, Bible account did not say that they built the tower that reached heavens but they are intent is to build it to reach heaven and they failed to accomplished that mission. Human being can try to do anything that come to his mind, there is no harm in trying, even scientist do experiment. That is just another fact that human being have being trying to exploit and capture his environment for a long time. Are you now telling me now that if your today race goes into extinction you will later doubt the fact of mankind erect flag on moon, or of Pathfinder exploit the Mars. People like you will doubt the existence of Great Wall of China, or Sphinx of Egypt just because Quran did not mentioned them.

Another point that I will like you to consider is that God did not against the building of the Tower but their motive, namely they don't want to scatter around the earth, they all want to sit in one place, that was not God purpose for man, he want his earth to be inhabited. Building the tower does not hinder God's purpose for man, but their intent to stay together not willing to scatter around the earth is not conform to HIS will, hence He confused their language and they eventually scatter around the earth. Just like the same way you and Mohammad want every nation to be muslim. That is not God will. Mr. Olabowale take note of that.

We are talking about similarities between Odu-Ifa of Yoruba and Qur'an on this thread? S-I-M-I-L-A-R-I-T-I-E-S what they both have in common, hope you understand that Mr. Olabowale. Lets educate ourselves. though you are free to your opinion.

My advise for you dont be gullible on other people view as in your reference to some websites because they too might be right or wrong. God give us all a unique brain which we can use to evaluate divergent views. Don't be surprised if I write a Book on this subject 'Similarities between Quran and Odu Ifa of Yorubas' and won a Nobel Prize.

I cant just understand why you are always like this, Imagine what you people did to Salman Rushdie because of different view on a issue.

olabowale:

Jew or Judaism, a religion of the Jewish tribes, was not practiced by any prophet, including Zachariah, his son John, Jesus, and those before them! A priest does not have to be a Jewish religion priest, since you have priesthood among the Christians, now! Did the religion of Aaron different from that of Moses? No. Was Moses of a different religion from Noah, or from Ibrahim (AS)? No. Did the religion of Noah different from that of Ibrahim? No. When was the word Jew or Judaism ever used? Check your Bible: Jew as a tribe is coined from Judah, a son of Jacob. It was only a tribe and not a religion, but one of the 12 nations of the children of Israel/jacob at the drinking wells!
I have been in many Jewish homes. My senior legal adviser is a Judge in Nevada, a Jewish man who is like a nephew to me. We lived together when I was living out there. Fred is a Jew in New York New Jersey and a VP of my Company. I know many in Borough park/Fort hamilton Parkway in Brooklyn. Sam, probably dead now, if he were to be alive will be 97, in Manhattan's 73rd Street was my attorney for 10 years straight. Nathan, who was a Rabbi of the Labovitch of Eastern Parkway was so close to me in the 1990s. I say all of these to mean what; did Passover rites occurred as part of the development of the "Jewish rites?" Of course not! When, the Children of Israel wereslaves in Egypt, they were simply called 'hebrew' based on their origin, and remnant of language' spoken. They were not in any place referred to as Jew, neither by by ethnicity, nor by religion! Their religion is based only on their not being oppressive like the Egyptian, but in addition being patient in belief of God! When were they Jews, Jairzinho! I have been in may homes of Jews, attended their Sedas. Have you. Seriously?

Religion is what WE call it now. They just worshipped God ! Now people have different ways of worshipping God & call it religion. The God they worshipped was called Jehovah, or Yahweh, . .is this one of the names of Allah?

How can you say none of the prophets practiced Judaism when some of them were Jews Hebrew, Jews have been used interchangeable over time, while Hebrew was the language of the entire nation of Israel(old kingdom under David or Daoud),Jew as you have rightly said referred mainly to tribe of Judah. Lets assume you are right and Jewish religion was limited to the tribe of Judah,when did this schism take place?? How many thousands of years before Jesus??


Who is a Jew?
A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism. (similar to your definition of Muslim vis a vis Shaddadah)
You have listed a lot of Jewish acquaintances,why not ask them if their religion started AFTER Jesus Christ?? I’m sure they will laugh at you. The Jewish religion and traditions are primarily based on the laws of Moses, and part of their beliefs was that they would one day have a Messiah (Al Masih in the Qur’an),we Christians believe that messiah is Jesus they do not accept. So how can a religion that prophesied about a Messiah start after the Messiah came?


Jewish religion has being influenced by Jewish ethnicity,just as Islam has being influenced by Arabic ethnicity,but to say only people of Jewish ethnicity practice Judaism is a fallacy you cannot defend.

So priests are not associated with religion?? Who is a priest? To say all the priests were just ethnic is laughable.

olabowale:

Shahadah is the most important. Those born into Islamic homes dont have to take shahadah when they become practicers of what you listed. Those who never practiced any religion as they reach puberty, even if they are from Ogun worshipper's home, they do not have to take any shahadah, for the pen is lifted before puberty! Now, the salah of Adam might have been just 2 salah and not five. For example, we read that Jesus made prostration and prayed in some parts of the night (Quyam), and I asked you to see the below that some christians and jews are still doing it like Muslims of Today; Youtube: Early Christian Prayer and mysticism.
Possible origin of Islamic Prostration.
The Jesus Prayer
Ethiopian orthodox christian prostration in prayer
An Ethiopian orthodox Easter in Lalibela
The Jews have the same sets of videos: Prostration in daily Jewish prayer.
Daily Jewish prayer and submssion.
Am sure you will find a good size library, so help yourself. As for Zakah, who should Adam give Zakat to, when he was the father of his children, husband of his wife, and grandfather of his grandchildren, all of them he is responsible for, naturally? Hajj, was prescribed by the call of Ibrahim (AS) and not before. Saum, fasting: a great testament to the Islam of Jesus, Moses, and others. While it was compulsory for Jesus to fast, it is not compulsory on you, a man who claims to follow him, while in reality you follow Paul, and company, the developers of the Christian doctrines!

The rest of your retorts, I leave alone, because they are not relevant to me. Are you okay man? I hope the hangover wears off, soon.

No links provided.
The shadadh includes ,the words ‘Mohammed is his prophet’. . . .how could Adam,Abraham,Moses have said this? The God of Moses was called Jehovah,is that one of the names of Allah?
On fasting ,you are making uninformed assumptions again. Christians have an annual full month of fasting called LENT culminating in Easter.
Since you have many Wikipedia links,I’ll advise you read this one

olabowale:

It was later used, as Judea, a nation along with nation of Israel, after the death of the son of King Solomon, when as Biblical Go punished them by tearing them into 2 nations! It was never use as a religion at no time, but alwats as an identity of ethic people, when the single tribe absorbed all the others, and their collective identity "Children of Israel" was dropped for it! Today, those who know enough about them will let you know that the Book known as Mishnash and Mamodian, etc were not known to anyone, including Jesus, your human God! What we find, from your Bible, is that Jesus was correcting the hypocracy of his people as he said, "i am but sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Whats the qualification for being a lost sheep, except deviation from Torah of Moses and Sabur of Daud (AS)?
Jesus said to not cancel the laws and the prophets. Neither is an indication of a religion, and when Jesus said worship God alone, and ignore everything else, it means innovations; books and methodologies! Show me the "ark of covenant, and those things that Moses brought in his form of religion of Islam"? The Jews of Today in their religious services bop their heads towards the Wailing wall! Moses did not do that. Jesus did not do that! The religion of Jesus was the religion of Moses! Today, the Jews have some kind of leather band on the head "similar" to coal miner's head lamps or a bandana. Please tell me if Jesus used to wear that? Again give me the qualitative elements of "the lost sheep" of the house of Israel?

Like I said ,stop denigrating our Lord Jesus Christ,it adds nothing to your posts,I don’t want to tred the path of insults. He is not a ‘human God’ he is the Messiah (Al Masih according to Qur’an) All the biblical events about virginal birth,ascension ,and return are all recorded in the Qura’n yet you call him a ‘human God’. Egbon e so ara yin o !
He came to reconnect the Jews (or Israelites) with God. They thought he came to establish a kingdom on earth via military means,but his focus was on heaven,Islam still focuses on an earthly kingdom(caliphate) instead of aspiring for heaven.

olabowale:

Am not tired. It seems to me that you are the one who is probably tired, since beer and all the trimings of New Year's eve and New Year's day must have flowed liberally with you.
The rest of your retorts, I leave alone, because they are not relevant to me. Are you okay man? I hope the hangover wears off, soon.

I’m sorry I don’t drink or smoke (never have & never will).

@jaz well done

@olabowale

Quote
Obatala is equally known as Orisaala, Orisaala can mean Orisa Ala and according to a reference work Allah "was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, ,  the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia" -Wikipedia
Orisaala, does not mean Orisa ala, for ala in yoruba means dream or white (funfun), plain color. Orisaala is your pronounciation or that of the writer, instead of Orisanla; the big god! The big god is very appropriate even today in the exegese of Trinity, for we read that the big god (father) was the one speaking while son god and ghost god (smaller gods) were mute/silent in the statement of creation of man as in "lets make man in our own image." We see that since you said Jesus is god, he had a mouth, eyes, etc. Lol, TheSeeker, you kinda rubbish Christianity. Thank God who instigated your opening of this thread!


Quote
Orisa (deity) + Allah = Orisaala, I think that make a sense to you.
You are from Modakeke, or Ife, or some place like that where they dont know how to pronounce nla! My people from that part of yorubaland, please forgive me; am an ijebuboy, and we pronounce many words badly too. But it is your amuni buni eron ibiye [theseeker] that brought this upon himself, unfortunately, all of you! Let me rubbish you even further, theseeker; if ala now translate to Allah, hence your Orisaala, what will Eloi, said by Jesus translate to? Remember language is oral/vocal before it comes written down and read!

Do you know anything about evolution of language at all? even if it is Orisanla as you suppose that is the correct pronunciation, then have you ever taught about what might have cause it origin, why should Yoruba called "nla" - big? have you ever wonder why I'm the TrueSeeker and you are olabowale? "Why" is always a leading question for people that quest for knowledge. Who knows it (Nla) might still have it root in allah, since allah is believe to be a supreme deity or a big god when compare to others pre-islamic gods of arab, as orisanla is believe to be bigger than other orisa in Yorubaland irrespective of the way you understand the name Orisanla (big-deity), or Orisaala (dieity-allah) it still point to the same thing. There is still some similarities between both. Or is allah not big?, huh?

ol

al



what do these two have in common?


people do indeed perish for lack of knowledge. I dont know why some would rather spout meaningless threats out of fear and ignorance, instead of checking to see if an assertion is based on fact or hypothesis.

btw does anyone know which language fatai is from.

lol

Abu Zola: And the son of the Ghost god commence his gibberish

Abuzola! You again?

Habib16: @true seeker sicker ko sickler ni. Look at u, ure just a pathetic Slowpoke brainwashed idiot. I wont be suprised that ure a Real Pegan. Infact dnt let me speak the nonsence out of u today! I wonder how ur parent would look like! Lol, not to talk about ur family!! Bursted. Omugo, dadandindin, Omo-ale. I can never be suprised coz ur Parent hav already give u out for sacrifice! for new year's ifa sacrifices dats y ur speaking all this jargons Malu!

@all Muslims Pls dnt mind these Goats! They said that silent is the best answer to F*****l!

You can not even write a simple but correct english. Lack of expression

There should be a thread for the mentally derailed here...what's the meaning of this,did u gyz get this from another site,or u've been thinking way out of ur head...what's the point really?...I don't get..Ifa-Alfa ....Abeg APPLY...haba...so u don't have ur bible to read/ur open heaven or even visit heaven as u guys have been going lately.Just have a nyc rest,take a shower,then take a pill or something

When the above heading came up in a Google search I made, Iowa's curious to see what evidences the writer has to offer.
After reading through I can see it is just a lazy speculation. Alfa comes from the Arabic word for a thousand 'alif, (ألف), and it is derived from a prophetic narration that ONE KNOWLEGEABLE MAN IS EQUAL IN STANDING BEFORE GOD TO A THOUSAND IGNORANT FELLOWS. Yorubas, from whose language the word is derived, therefore applies the word, after being adjusted to suit the peculiarities of Yoruba phonetics, to Islam scholars and teachers.
Therefore, alfa being a foreign loan word, cannot be held to have anything to do with ifa.

When the above heading came up in a Google search I made, I was curious to see what evidences the writer has to offer.
After reading through I can see it is just a lazy speculation. Alfa comes from the Arabic word for a thousand 'alif, (ألف), and it is derived from a prophetic narration that ONE KNOWLEGEABLE MAN IS EQUAL IN STANDING BEFORE GOD TO A THOUSAND IGNORANT FELLOWS. Yorubas, from whose language the word is derived, therefore applies the word, after being adjusted to suit the peculiarities of Yoruba phonetics, to Islam scholars and teachers.
Therefore, alfa being a foreign loan word, cannot be held to have anything to do with ifa.

noetic15:


ur teachers must have been wise men, .  . since there is no scientifically plausible reason to believe that the sun CANNOT stand still.
It would also amount to lack of intelligence to state that a donkey or serpent cannot talk. . .considering that some people also hear from invisible spirits.

If I were u, I would take the words of those teachers dearly. . .and most importantly they taught u that yorubas migrated from saudi arabia, they came with one of the 360 gods/idols of the city, they left allah behind. . .it was this same allah that mohammed elevated to a global idol.

diz one no get sense ooo y did Lamurudu leave mecca wen u knw dat u knw Allah is not an idol

Allah is not an idol nor is he a moon god as people will say. And their is something special about this word "Allah", it cannot be made plural nor is it male or female. By the way in Hebrew the word for god is "Elohim" or "Elohim" and in Aramaic "Elaw". Know that Aramaic is a twin sister language to Arabic and when the word for god is pronounced they say "Allah". Note that even though they are written differently the way the are pronounced is quite similar. Also there was indeed a moon god in Saudi Arabia but it name was not Allah it was called Sîn. The lie that Allah was a moon god was propagated by Robert Morey . The Arabs agree there was a moon god but he was called Sîn. And by the way there are christian Arabs they call god saying Allah and in the Arab bible they used Allah for god. So please stop spreading lies

omo ode ni boboh yii. quran and odu ifa. and he speaks very stupid english. you should get your facta right before announcing your stupidity. Quran was revealed. it didnt descend. most of us arent mutazilites...find out wat it means if it might give yu headache.
oniranu

What messed up Yoruba history is lack of documented facts. This rendered all their silly stories useless.

But one thing is clear, we can not condemn everything in Yoruba folklores in connection with Islam because Quran teaches that Messengers were sent to every nation.


And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], "Worship Allah and avoid Taghut." And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. So proceed through the earth and observe how was the end of the deniers.

sūrat l-naḥl (The Bees) Ayah 36


So most likely messenger was sent to Yoruba land as well but somewhere, somehow, the people corrupted message of Islam their Prophet brought and worshipped taghut. Remnants of the corrupted message is Ifa Oracle which in itself is now utterly by corrupted to the level of shirk.

It is clear from this Ayah that Islam was the real esin abalaye or ìsésé. So if messanger was sent to Yoruba people, obviously, that messanger must have foretold Prophet Muhammad (saw) which some ifa people discribed "Alfa Oni lawani gbangba".

It is Yoruba traditional worshippers that need to make tawbah and embrace Islam..

#myopinion