There is a hadith that prohibits women from using/wear perfumes because it attract men and leads to temptation?

But men are allow to wear perfumes?

I see this as inequality.

Now, Some people have this odour when they sweat it smells out, some even have natural body odour, how will such woman smell nice in this situation?

tintingz:
There is a hadith that prohibits women from using/wear perfumes because it attract men and leads to temptation?

But men are allow to wear perfumes?

I see this as inequality.

# It is only when she's going out. Same goes for displaying of her beauty, and other things that can easily make her focused.

# Most of the time, it is man that harass woman sexually. And anything, not just perfume, that can trigger this act, Islam try to guard woman from it.

# Perfume call attention easily, and a woman alone might not be able to protect herself from whatever danger posed by male admirer.

tintingz:

Now, Some people have this odour when they sweat it smells out, some even have natural body odour, how will such woman smell nice in this situation?

I think this is an exception which Islam should not have problem with. However, the ruling to use or not lies with the fuqaha (jurists).

AlBaqir:


# It is only when she's going out. Same goes for displaying of her beauty, and other things that can easily make her focused.

This should be the woman's choice. I've come across some women that the odour that oozes out from them make me wanna puke.

If it is good for men why is it bad for women, women also get turn on with the scent, fragrance of perfumes used by men.

# Most of the time, it is man that harass woman sexually. And anything, not just perfume, that can trigger this act, Islam try to guard woman from it.

Women are still being sexually harassed even in the Arab countries that are strict in sharia and the funniest part is the victim will also be punished.

What triggers sexuality is an electronic switch from the brain, even animals indulge in this act even tho their females are not using no perfumes.

# Perfume call attention easily, and a woman alone might not be able to protect herself from whatever danger posed by male admirer.

Whether she use perfume or not, there are male perverts out there that are ready to harrass any woman especially the nightcrawlers males.

I think this is an exception which Islam should not have problem with. However, the ruling to use or not lies with the fuqaha (jurists).

Ok

tintingz:
This should be the woman's choice. I've come across some women that the odour that oozes out from them make me wanna puke.

# Again this is an exceptional case. Its out of the equation.

tintingz:

If it is good for men why is it bad for women, women also get turn on with the scent, fragrance of perfumes used by men.

# First, I can infer from your reply that you agreed that perfume can turn on.

# Second, according psychologist, every man is a potential rapist and sexual harasser. Islam in its wisdom lay down certain rules like Men and women should lower their gaze. Women should cover their body, and not put on tight fitting dress etc. All these is toward one goal. Protection and respect for the physically weak and fragile woman. And protection for man from his avowed enemy, the beast in him.

#;Third, even if a woman is turn on by man's perfume, our culture and humanity (forget about it being corrupted), still find it appropriate that a man always make first move whether to ask out, harass sexually or rape. Its rare vice versa. This compare to if a man is turn on by a woman's perfume. It triggers everything and become worsen if the woman sexy-dressed type.

For woman to wear perfume where she's perfectly safe, there is absolutely no problem in that. In fact Islam encourage wives to wear perfumes always in the house to turn on her husband.

Naturally, man is like butterfly always turned on by the scent of flowers.

tintingz:

Women are still being sexually harassed even in the Arab countries that are strict in sharia and the funniest part is the victim will also be punished.

# It is very rare compare to what you have in the western world where statistics says it is every now and then.

# Human is always human. Sharia is just designed to help us tame that beast in us. If let loose, there is danger to everything. Even all these "free world", they have there own sharia in certain aspects of their lives where you go against it, you will be fish out and deal seriously with.

tintingz:

What triggers sexuality is an electronic switch from the brain, even animals indulge in this act even tho their females are not using no perfumes.

# There is no smoke without fire. If you close your eyes, locked up your nostrils, and have the sensory nerves on your skin shut down, your brain will receive no impulse, there will be no interpretation, and no electronic switch can be turn on.

# A man that smell a killer perfume will instantly look for its source. Once the source is discovered, thoughts will follow and brain will be put to task.

# Who told you animals doesn't have their special perfumes they used to attract each other!

tintingz:

Whether she use perfume or not, there are male perverts out there that are ready to harrass any woman especially the nightcrawlers males.

Ok

# Absolutely. However, the % becomes low if a woman observe some of the things religion prescribe for her compare to otherwise.

AlBaqir:


# Again this is an exceptional case. Its out of the equation.

Ok

# First, I can infer from your reply that you agreed that perfume can turn on.

The word turn on is wide In meaning, it can mean having interest or sexually aroused it depends on the context, it is not always about the latter. I can see a lady that wears something I don't like, I can say "this is a turn off for me" which means I don't like it.

# [b]Second, according psychologist, every man is a potential rapist and sexual harasser. [/b]Islam in its wisdom lay down certain rules like Men and women should lower their gaze. Women should cover their body, and not put on tight fitting dress etc. All these is toward one goal. Protection and respect for the physically weak and fragile woman. And protection for man from his avowed enemy, the beast in him.

The bolded part are words from some radical feminist, that all men are rapist, I don't think psychology/psychologist agree with that because to my research psychologist said rapist are mostly done by men that are unattractive to women, sexual refusal by women and it is inheritance, they didn't classify all men to be rapist because in their study Men have the ability to control their sexual urge.

Whether women cover up or not those evil men that want to rape will rape.

#;Third, even if a woman is turn on by man's perfume, our culture and humanity (forget about it being corrupted), still find it appropriate that a man always make first move whether to ask out, harass sexually or rape. Its rare vice versa. This compare to if a man is turn on by a woman's perfume. It triggers everything and become worsen if the woman sexy-dressed type.

Men do the chasing but a psychologist study said women are mostly sometimes make the first move through eye contact and body language. In western countries today women now make the first move verbally sef.
Perfumes does not turn a man on to the extent of wanting to rape her but have interest in her, men also have emotions.

For woman to wear perfume where she's perfectly safe, there is absolutely no problem in that. In fact Islam encourage wives to wear perfumes always in the house to turn on her husband.

Naturally, man is like butterfly always turned on by the scent of flowers.

OK.

# It is very rare compare to what you have in the western world where statistics says it is every now and then.

Arabs countries don't keep records of rape cases, the victims which is mostly women dont report about their rape attacks to the authorities since they will also be punished.

Rape cases in Arab countries is imbalance not like the western countries that are strict in rape cases according to research.

Whether it is rare or not, rape can occur anywhere even if a lady is dressed like a nun and not use perfumes.

# Human is always human. Sharia is just designed to help us tame that beast in us. If let loose, there is danger to everything. Even all these "free world", they have there own sharia in certain aspects of their lives where you go against it, you will be fish out and deal seriously with.

Exactly, that's why there are laws but including prohibition of peefumes for women no follow.

# There is no smoke without fire. If you close your eyes, locked up your nostrils, and have the sensory nerves on your skin shut down, your brain will receive no impulse, there will be no interpretation, and no electronic switch can be turn on.

Lol, you're a man now.

Do you want to tell me prisoners dont have urge for sex? Some turn to gay while some ma'sturbate, this a place where it's a single gender place.

Our body is design to be sexually active even without seeing opposite sex.

# A man that smell a killer perfume will instantly look for its source. Once the source is discovered, thoughts will follow and brain will be put to task.

I disagree, men don't really chase what they smell but what they see and if she is out sight the interest goes off unless he keep seeing the lady.

# Who told you animals doesn't have their special perfumes they used to attract each other!

OK, you're right here.

Which means it is normal, natural for ladies to wear perfumes biologically.

# Absolutely. However, the % becomes low if a woman observe some of the things religion prescribe for her compare to otherwise.

I disagree with this.
But let assume it lowers the act it does not eradicate it, which is part of my point.

following .....

tintingz:


The word turn on is wide In meaning, it can mean having interest or sexually aroused it depends on the context, it is not always about the latter. I can see a lady that wears something I don't like, I can say "this is a turn off for me" which means I don't like it.

# You brought the word "turn on" not turn off.

tintingz:

The bolded part are words from some radical feminist, that all men are rapist, I don't think psychology/psychologist agree with that because to my research psychologist said rapist are mostly done by men that are unattractive to women, sexual refusal by women and it is inheritance, they didn't classify all men to be rapist because in their study Men has the ability to control their sexual urge.

# You miss the vital word "potential". So, it did not say all men are rapist or sexual harasser. They have the potential to do that when the time and avenue is right. Same is not for woman. She can only make moves that will turn man on one of which is wearing perfume.

tintingz:

Whether women cover up or not those evil men that want to rape will rape.

Again you are right on this point. However, I maintained that the % become very low where a woman observe religious guidelines. A woman that covered herself from head to toe in a loose garment usually unattractive, not wearing perfume or displaying her ornament, has the highest % chance of walking scot free: compare to an half-dressed woman or with a tight fitting dress and killing perfume etc. Her chance is very low.

tintingz:

Men do the chasing but a psychologist study said women are mostly sometimes make the first move through eye contact and body language. In western countries today women now make the first move verbally sef.
Perfumes does not turn a man on to the extent of wanting to rape her but have interest in her, men also have emotions.

# Look at the word you use "sometimes". Meaning its not common as frequently man's first move.

# We cannot use western morally degraded society as a yardstick here.

# Yes! Perfume does not turn on a man to the extent of wanting to rape but obviously it register a message and a wish on to his mind. Whatever can start from there.

tintingz:

Arabs countries don't keep records of rape cases, the victims which is mostly women dont report about their rape attacks to the authorities since they will also be punished.

Rape cases in Arab countries is imbalance not like the western countries that are strict in rape cases according to research.

# Well I don't know much about rape cases in Arab world. The fact however is most of rape cases are usually not reported because of the stigma.

# Second, I focused more on sharia countries. In fact, you brought it yourself and I submitted that the % of raping is very low over there. What exactly want to trigger that beast in you? Women hardly go out alone without their men beside them. And if they do alone, its usually in a group, and even if its alone, she doesn't put on dresses that make her focused. So she has high % of security.

tintingz:

Whether it is rare or not, rape can occur anywhere even if a lady is dressed like a nun and not use perfumes.

# Obviously, but again the % difference is distance of heavens to earths.

tintingz:

Do you want to tell me prisoners dont have urge for sex? Some turn to gay while some ma'sturbate, this a place where it's a single gender place.

Our body is design to be sexually active even without seeing opposite sex.

That's power of fantasy. What you see or used to see is registered in your brain and when you are alone or even in your dreams, you imagine it and make a story of it.

tintingz:

I disagree, men don't really chase what they smell but what they see and if she is out sight the interest goes off unless he keep seeing the lady.

# What I said there is that Smelling could be the first point of action especially when your eyes are not in that direction.

# Whether she's out sight or they see frequently is not my point. That first sense.

tintingz:

Which means it is normal, natural for ladies to wear perfumes biologically.

I disagree with this.
But let assume it lowers the act it does not eradicate it, which is part of my point.

# Everybody wear his or her biological perfume. Do you wanna tell me you don't know how your particular friend "smell" as different from your brother?

# And my whole point is Islam did not claim it will eradicate it 100% but reduction to lowest % is achievable.

That conclude the submission from my end.

Nice chatting with you.

AlBaqir:


# You brought the word "turn on" not turn off.

The opposite of turn on is turn off.

# You miss the vital word "potential". So, it did not say all men are rapist or sexual harasser. They have the potential to do that when the time and avenue is right. Same is not for woman. She can only make moves that will turn man on one of which is wearing perfume.

Do you also know women also have the potential to rape? Have you watched the video of some ladies trying to rape a man?

Again you are right on this point. However, I maintained that the % become very low where a woman observe religious guidelines. A woman that covered herself from head to toe in a loose garment usually unattractive, not wearing perfume or displaying her ornament, has the highest % chance of walking scot free: compare to an half-dressed woman or with a tight fitting dress and killing perfume etc. Her chance is very low.

It still the same thing, once upon a time African women dress half-nãked and everything was normal. A woman that covers or does not covers still has the risk of getting raped, because a woman dressed like a nun or wear niqab does not means she cant be sexually harassed.

# Look at the word you use "sometimes". Meaning its not common as frequently man's first move.

My "sometimes" In that context means "we men dont notice women make the first move" the eye contact and body language are first move.

# We cannot use western morally degraded society as a yardstick here.

Western were once like Africa, for women in western countries to make the first move verbally shows it is possible for all women, Africa women are still following society codes.

# Yes! Perfume does not turn on a man to the extent of wanting to rape but obviously it register a message and a wish on to his mind. Whatever can start from there.

Yeah, something like a relationship and getting married.

# Well I don't know much about rape cases in Arab world. The fact however is most of rape cases are usually not reported because of the stigma.

Yes, stigma is part of it and according report Arab women don't report their rape cases because of the punishment they will face.

# Second, I focused more on sharia countries. In fact, you brought it yourself and I submitted that the % of raping is very low over there. What exactly want to trigger that beast in you? Women hardly go out alone without their men beside them. And if they do alone, its usually in a group, and even if its alone, she doesn't put on dresses that make her focused. So she has high % of security.

I follow my sister to get some stuff in late hours in the night which happens everywhere, the Arab case is different a woman cant even walk or travel alone even during the day, a man will always follow her like a kid.

# Obviously, but again the % difference is distance of heavens to earths.

The % is not low as you claim, you can't compare the population of Saudi Arabia to that of U.S.

That's power of fantasy. What you see or used to see is registered in your brain and when you are alone or even in your dreams, you imagine it and make a story of it.

Lol, our body is design to be sexually active, that's why men have wet dreams, women ovulate.

Lock someone in a room without seeing any opposite sex, study such person and see the person hungry for sex.

# What I said there is that Smelling could be the first point of action especially when your eyes are not in that direction.

Ok

# Whether she's out sight or they see frequently is not my point. That first sense.

Is this not normal?

# Everybody wear his or her biological perfume. Do you wanna tell me you don't know how your particular friend "smell" as different from your brother?

What do you mean by biological perfume, you mean odor, body scent?

# And my whole point is Islam did not claim it will eradicate it 100% but reduction to lowest % is achievable.

That conclude the submission from my end.

What's the use of prohibiting what can't be control, the power of sex is beyond perfumes, dressing, human brain is design to mate just like animals.(sorry using the word mate for humans).
Criminalizing rape is what that can control it not prohibiting perfumes.

Nice chatting with you.

Same here too bro.

tintingz:
There is a hadith that prohibits women from using/wear perfumes because it attract men and leads to temptation?

But men are allow to wear perfumes?

I see this as inequality.

Now, Some people have this odour when they sweat it smells out, some even have natural body odour, how will such woman smell nice in this situation?

Peace.

Yes, it is injustice or inequality but who cares? Seriously, most traditional Muslim women wear perfume regardless of this hadith. This, I find hypocritical on their part but can I really blame them? Regardless of gender, body odor is real. The idea that perfume is prohibited for women because it attract men is too flimsy to be acceptable, given that perfumes are neither pungent enough to be sniffed beyond 3fts nor sexual to arouse men. This is what drove me from Islamic orthodoxy years ago, too many baseless laws supported by mere flimsy, and illogical excuses that
serve no more than damage control.

I know this old thread but it reminds me of last year when I bought a body spray for my mom on returning home after one year away. My mom thanked me but turned down my gift, reminding me that women are prohibited from wearing perfume in Islam. Of course, I do not believe this, but knowing my mom, I decided to let it pass. Gone are the days I try to explain to my family or any Muslim offline on why this is Islamic, that is acceptable or that is forbidden.

usermane:


Peace.

Yes, it is injustice or inequality but who cares? Seriously, most traditional Muslim women wear perfume regardless of this hadith. This, I find hypocritical on their part but can I really blame them? Regardless of gender, body odor is real. The idea that perfume is prohibited for women because it attract men is too flimsy to be acceptable, given that perfumes are neither pungent enough to be sniffed beyond 3fts nor sexual to arouse men. This is what drove me from Islamic orthodoxy years ago, too many baseless laws supported by mere flimsy, and illogical excuses that
serve no more than damage control.

I know this old thread but it reminds me of last year when I bought a body spray for my mom on returning home after one year away. My mom thanked me but turned down my gift, reminding me that women are prohibited from wearing perfume in Islam. Of course, I do not believe this, but knowing my mom, I decided to let it pass. Gone are the days I try to explain to my family or any Muslim offline on why this is Islamic, that is acceptable or that is forbidden.

Well said. I have know you to be a liberal muslim in this section.

tintingz:

I follow my sister to get some stuff in late hours in the night which happens everywhere, the Arab case is different a woman cant even walk or travel alone even during the day, a man will always follow her like a kid.

I would love to discuss this issue of mahram one day in sha Allah.
Cc
Albaqir, Empiree

tintingz:

What's the use of prohibiting what can't be control, the power of sex is beyond perfumes, dressing, human brain is design to mate just like animals.(sorry using the word mate for humans).
Criminalizing rape is what that can control it not prohibiting perfumes.

Same here too bro.

What Islam always try to do is to prevent and minimize the outcome of something. Take for example, the issue of shaking the opposite sex. A friend once told me "What is there? I don't feel anything(sexual attraction) when I do shake the opposite sex". It's true, he might not feel it but others do. Islam tries to deal with the general and never the exceptional.

A means to illegal sexual intimacy is handshaking with the opposite sex and Islam tries to curb it by prohibiting anything that might it leads to it. In similar fashion, you might not get turn on or you may haven't met people who will get turn on due to the perfume of the opposite sex to the extent of making sexual advances towards her, but certainly there are people who will get turned on due to the perfume of the opposite sex.

The mind is very delicate, the power might be beyond perfumes and dressing but you would quite agree that these are things that enhance it. Between a well dressed lady and a lady wearing a skimpy cloth, both of equal beauty, the one with skimpy cloth is more liable to rape.

Why?
She has given the opportunity of men to fist on her parts of the body that would turn them on. It's not rocket science, prevention is better than cure.

And Albaqir has made a wonderful contribution.

lanrexlan:
I would love to discuss this issue of mahram one day in sha Allah.
Cc
Albaq.ir, Empire.e


.

Flexibility exist


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNDNUujl6Wo

Empiree:
Flexibility exist


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNDNUujl6Wo

Have you found the hadith Nurudeen Lemu quoted?

lanrexlan:

What Islam always try to do is to prevent and minimize the outcome of something. Take for example, the issue of shaking the opposite sex. A friend once told me "What is there? I don't feel anything(sexual attraction) when I do shake the opposite sex". It's true, he might not feel it but others do. Islam tries to deal with the general and never the exceptional.

I dont see anything wrong for two opposite sex shaking hands, it is nothing and if they have feelings for each other what is wrong with it?

A means to illegal sexual intimacy is handshaking with the opposite sex and Islam tries to curb it by prohibiting anything that might it leads to it. In similar fashion, you might not get turn on or you may haven't met people who will get turn on due to the perfume of the opposite sex to the extent of making sexual advances towards her, but certainly there are people who will get turned on due to the perfume of the opposite sex.

The human brain cant be controlled when it comes nature, part of human nature is to have sexual feelings for the opposite sex(except for gays) no matter the Prohibition. I don't see anything stopping this(sexual desire), even catholic nuns, reverends cant control it as we read cases of sexual assaults, even in saudi arabia that are strict in sharia.

The mind is very delicate, the power might be beyond perfumes and dressing but you would quite agree that these are things that enhance it. Between a well dressed lady and a lady wearing a skimpy cloth, both of equal beauty, the one with skimpy cloth is more liable to rape.
Why?
She has given the opportunity of men to fist on her parts of the body that would turn them on. It's not rocket science, prevention is better than cure.

And Alb.aqir has made a wonderful contribution.

Whether a lady wear/wore a full garment or not, rapists dont really look at that, as far the victim is a female or male they will do their evil act.

Are babies, kids mature to have a grown woman features? NO, why then do we read cases of these evil rapists raping them?

There are cases of female raping male, why was perfumes not prohibited for men as well or perfumes doesn't attract women?

tintingz:
I dont see anything wrong for two opposite sex shaking hands, it is nothing and if they have feelings for each other what is wrong with it?

So if your wife shakes hand with another man and he has feelings for her and she also have feelings for him, well there's nothing wrong right? They should go with the relationship riggt That's why people have many unlawful sexual partners
It is a gradual process, from shaking her hands, it graduated to touching her neck (or other part of her body) to touching and the last stage is the private part affirming all these stages.

tintingz:

The human brain cant be controlled when it comes nature, part of human nature is to have sexual feelings for the opposite sex(except for gays) no matter the Prohibition. I don't see anything stopping this(sexual desire), even catholic nuns, reverends cant control it as we read cases of sexual assaults, even in saudi arabia that are strict in sharia.

Exactly, nature can NEVER be suppressed. There are two extremes and a middle path: The first extreme is celibacy as championed by the catholic church and this is not possible, cos you can't suppress nature and news from catholic homes prove that (As nuns were seen committing fornication).

The second extreme is the idea of free sex as advocated by the west, that a man is free to have sex with anyone he wishes since he is not harming anyone and it's a mutual concept. This is also wrong (But it's not our discussion).

The middle path is what Islam preaches, fulfilling your sexual urges in the right manner. So, when you have sexual feelings for the opposite sex, do the right thing and get married to her, make the right moves, this is one of the means of fulfilling your sexual feelings towards the opposite gender.

tintingz:

Whether a lady wear/wore a full garment or not, rapists dont really look at that, as far the victim is a female or male they will do their evil act.

This will be just a discussion of going back and forth. Baqir has replied you on this. The chances of a lady dressed in full garment getting raped to a lady dressed in skimpy cloth is relatively low.

tintingz:

Are babies, kids mature to have a grown woman features? NO, why then do we read cases of these evil rapists raping them?

These are abnormal cases. Sometimes, rapists of small kids are up to something else and they aren't attracted by her features. Well, we are talking about an ideal situation.

tintingz:

There are cases of female raping male, why was perfumes not prohibited for men as well or perfumes doesn't attract women?

These are rare cases bro and Baqir has also replied this. I don't think we should be repeating the same argument, I am to input my take on the issue and take my leave.

lanrexlan:
Have you found the hadith Nurudeen Lemu quoted?

honestly I have not gone through since I received this video. I have been very busy lately but I think I'm about to have some relief for the research, in sha Allah.

lanrexlan:
So if your wife shakes hand with another man and he has feelings for her and she also have feelings for him, well there's nothing wrong right? They should go with the relationship riggt That's why people have many unlawful sexual partners
It is a gradual process, from shaking her hands, it graduated to touching her neck (or other part of her body) to touching and the last stage is the private part affirming all these stages.

I dont have problem with my wife shaking another man's hand at all, she can do it in front of me, i cant read minds how will i know they are having feelings for each other? If she cheats, i can simply walk out from the marriage. people cheat whether they shake hands or not, it happens everywhere.

Exactly, nature can NEVER be suppressed. There are two extremes and a middle path: The first extreme is celibacy as championed by the catholic church and this is not possible, cos you can't suppress nature and news from catholic homes prove that (As nuns were seen committing fornication).

ok

The second extreme is the idea of free sex as advocated by the west, that a man is free to have sex with anyone he wishes since he is not harming anyone and it's a mutual concept. This is also wrong (But it's not our discussion).

This is people's choice, what is wrong about it?

Things that are wrong to you might not be seen as wrong in another society, you cant use your ideology to judge other people's ideology.

The middle path is what Islam preaches, fulfilling your sexual urges in the right manner. So, when you have sexual feelings for the opposite sex, do the right thing and get married to her, make the right moves, this is one of the means of fulfilling your sexual feelings towards the opposite gender.

This happens everywhere. Marriage was just design to make relationships looks legal for lovers, given bride price, celebrating relationships, signing an agreement etc.

This will be just a discussion of going back and forth. Baqir has replied you on this. The chances of a lady dressed in full garment getting raped to a lady dressed in skimpy cloth is relatively low.

Any stats for this?

Can a lady dressed in full garment walk in the night alone without rapists chasing her?

These are abnormal cases. Sometimes, rapists of small kids are up to something else and they aren't attracted by her features. Well, we are talking about an ideal situation.

They rape kids because of their uncontrollable sexual urge, how is the case different from a lady in full garment.

These are rare cases bro and Baqir has also replied this. I don't think we should be repeating the same argument, I am to input my take on the issue and take my leave.

Rare cases is a case, men also get raped by women, but many of them don't speak out.

lanrexlan:


Exactly, nature can NEVER be suppressed. There are two extremes and a middle path: The first extreme is celibacy as championed by the catholic church and this is not possible, cos you can't suppress nature and news from catholic homes prove that (As nuns were seen committing fornication).

The second extreme is the idea of free sex as advocated by the west, that a man is free to have sex with anyone he wishes since he is not harming anyone and it's a mutual concept. This is also wrong (But it's not our discussion).

The middle path is what Islam preaches, fulfilling your sexual urges in the right manner. So, when you have sexual feelings for the opposite sex, do the right thing and get married to her, make the right moves, this is one of the means of fulfilling your sexual feelings towards the opposite gender.

This will be just a discussion of going back and forth. Baqir has replied you on this. The chances of a lady dressed in full garment getting raped to a lady dressed in skimpy cloth is relatively low.


These are abnormal cases. Sometimes, rapists of small kids are up to something else and they aren't attracted by her features. Well, we are talking about an ideal situation.

These are rare cases bro and Baqir has also replied this. I don't think we should be repeating the same argument, I am to input my take on the issue and take my leave.

Pre marital sex is not wrong because it is wrong. It is not wrong for everyone but it is sinful for muslims. You cannot convince a non Muslim that pre marital sex is wrong because in actual fact there aren't any reasons why it is wrong.

A fully dressed woman is not safe from rape. Most rape incidents happen within the domestic sphere. Also, the way the world is now, there are men out there who have fetishes for fully covered women.


Paedophiles are actually attracted to the features of their pre-pubscent victims/object of desire. The innocent eyes, the lack of hair etc


We can do without trying to justify Islam based on logic. Logic and religion do not mix. Religion is about faith. If you don't faith, you can't follow a religion whether it is islam or Christianity etc. However I am not saying I follow every Islamic presecription based on faith, there are times when I basically go with my logic.

Sterope:

Pre marital sex is not wrong because it is wrong. It is not wrong for everyone but it is sinful for muslims. You cannot convince a non Muslim that pre marital sex is wrong because in actual fact there aren't any reasons why it is wrong.

Really? Russells says "I am not suggesting that there should be no morality and no self-restraint in regard to sex, any more than in regard to food. In regard to food we have restraints of three kinds, those of law, those of manners, and those of health.

We regard it wrong to steal food, to take more than our share at a common meal, and to eat in ways that are likely to make us ill. Restraints of a similar kind are essential where sex is concerned, but in this case they are much more complex and involve much more self-control" (Russell, Marriage and Morals, p. 293-294.)

This is the view of a non-Muslim, there should be modality and regulation with everything. We are humans and not animals.

Sterope:
A fully dressed woman is not safe from rape. Most rape incidents happen within the domestic sphere. Also, the way the world is now, there are men out there who have fetishes for fully covered women.

People have fetish motives for different things. Not only covered women, even babies.
http://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/more-news/230501-rape-six-month-old-girl-kano-govt-pushes-life-imprisonment.html

Sterope:
Paedophiles are actually attracted to the features of their pre-pubscent victims/object of desire. The innocent eyes, the lack of hair etc

This might be true but it is still an abnormal situation. A question, what attracts a man to an animal??

Sterope:
We can do without trying to justify Islam based on logic. Logic and religion do not mix. Religion is about faith. If you don't faith, you can't follow a religion whether it is islam or Christianity etc. However I am not saying I follow every Islamic presecription based on faith, there are times when I basically go with my logic.

Islam doesn't forbid you to use your brain but it should be in line with divine scriptures. Everything has its own guide and the Qu'ran is the guide. Mawlana Jalaluddin Rumi said "Even a child's reasoning says 'Busy yourself with books'. But it is not possible for a child to learn anything from the book on their own. Like so, the patient's reason brings them to a physician, but their reason cannot be a cure for them. If every blabbermouth was to find a way to Allah's grace and favor, would Allah Almighty had sent all these prophets?

If we are to go with every logic of tom, dick and harry on every Islamic issue, there would a lot of contradicting opinions. Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al Annam 6;116 --And if you are to obey most of those on earth, they will mislead you far away from Allah's path. They follow nothing but conjectures and they do nothing but lie.

tintingz:
I dont have problem with my wife shaking another man's hand at all, she can do it in front of me, i cant read minds how will i know they are having feelings for each other? If she cheats, i can simply walk out from the marriage. people cheat whether they shake hands or not, it happens everywhere.

ok

You are still not getting the point. You choose to direct your reasoning in the way that suits you and not to see what other people are trying to project. I never argued that people don't cheat whether they shake hands or not. My point is that all these (Shaking the opposite sex, being alone with opposite sex in a room et al) are means that aid illegal relationship. These things are pathways to illegal relationship, it doesn't mean if someone engages in them, then certainly he/she would cheat nor does it signifies that if a person abstains from them, he won't cheat. That's not my point, my point is that, Islam always has a means of taking precautionary measures when dealing with things like this.

tintingz:
This is people's choice, what is wrong about it?

Things that are wrong to you might not be seen as wrong in another society, you cant use your ideology to judge other people's ideology.

The same way it is people's choice to use narcotic and hard drugs. Why is the government prosecuting them?

The western logic is that man is free to do whatsoever he likes in as much as he is not infringing on the rights of others. Right? Then, why are people being fined for not using seat belts? At least it is their lives and choice and they are not causing harm on anyone.

tintingz:
This happens everywhere. Marriage was just design to make relationships looks legal for lovers, given bride price, celebrating relationships, signing an agreement etc.

Not only to make relationship looks legal. It is also to regulate one's urges for intimacy. Even in the western world, is a married allowed to copulate outside wedlock?

tintingz:
Any stats for this?

Do you really need statistics for this? How many cases of hijabi sister being have you heard or see? Kindly compare and contrast it with that of non-hijabi women.

tintingz:
They rape kids because of their uncontrollable sexual urge, how is the case different from a lady in full garment.

We live in one hell of hypersexualized society. Everything is almost about sex. Forget about humans, the society is so bad that people are even raping animals! SubhanAllah! What attracts a man to a goat? Bodily features or assets?

So brother, as I have expalined earlier, Islamic measures are precautionary measures.

tintingz:
Rare cases is a case, men also get raped by women, but many of them don't speak out.

I never argued that rare cases aren't cases. You keep hammering on that, the fact is that men rape cases when compared to women rape cases is low. Take it or leave it akhee.

lanrexlan:
You are still not getting the point. You choose to direct your reasoning in the way that suits you and not to see what other people are trying to project. I never argued that people don't cheat whether they shake hands or not. My point is that all these (Shaking the opposite sex, being alone with opposite sex in a room et al) are means that aid illegal relationship. These things are pathways to illegal relationship, it doesn't mean if someone engages in them, then certainly he/she would cheat nor does it signifies that if a person abstains from them, he won't cheat. That's not my point, my point is that, Islam always has a means of taking precautionary measures when dealing with things like this.

Logically, there is nothing like illegal relationship, it is religion, cultures that make it up. As far two adults have consent for each other what's illegal in the relationship?

The same way it is people's choice to use narcotic and hard drugs. Why is the government prosecuting them?

The western logic is that man is free to do whatsoever he likes in as much as he is not infringing on the rights of others. Right? Then, why are people being fined for not using seat belts? At least it is their lives and choice and they are not causing harm on anyone.

It is the resposibility of the government to care for the people's health, safety. There are long term debates before laws are put into constitution.

Taking hard drugs is harmful to the user and to the people around him/her, imagine someone took marijuana and move aggressively to stab another person because he's high and not in his right sense.

There are rules in road safety regulations and using sit belt is part of it, this is something agreed everywhere in the world, the safety is for the people in the car, government own the roads you have no choice than to follow the rules and regulations, it is like given rules for student to wear uniform. This has no logical correlation with mixing with opposite sex or having sex with anyone you wishes, as long as these two adults are ok with it and even at that there are rules in having sex, e.g rape is under criminal charges.

This is about empathy.

Not only to make relationship looks legal. It is also to regulate one's urges for intimacy. Even in the western world, is a married allowed to copulate outside wedlock?

People who are married and people not married are still practicing same relationship, the latter was design to make the relationship known to the family, friends and law, and some religious, cultural reasons. I can do all these without making it looks like marriage.

People practice premarital sex in western countries and no one is persecuted for it, even their baby mamas are being given child support, they don't have problem with premarital sex in the western world, it is religion, culture that makes it illegal, sin. There is a marriage called open relationship(marriage), where the couples can have multiple sexual partners and they won't have problem with it.

Do you really need statistics for this? How many cases of hijabi sister being have you heard or see? Kindly compare and contrast it with that of non-hijabi women.

Lol, I have read a lot about hijabi sisters being raped. It is no news.
Because some women wear hijab doesn't mean they can't be raped, there are pervert vampires that love to rape women in hijab.

We live in one hell of hypersexualized society. Everything is almost about sex. Forget about humans, the society is so bad that people are even raping animals! SubhanAllah! What attracts a man to a goat? Bodily features or assets?

Good, if someone can rape a goat, how come hijab sisters can't be raped. I even seen a video of a young man raping a chicken!!!!

There are some people that cant control thier sexual urge even if they live in saudi, the more reason polygamy is legal and early marraige is recommended.

So brother, as I have expalined earlier, Islamic measures are precautionary measures.

Yes but it's against some freedom of people's choice. Women can't use perfumes?

I never argued that rare cases aren't cases. You keep hammering on that, the fact is that men rape cases when compared to women rape cases is low. Take it or leave it akhee.

Ok.

tintingz:
Logically, there is nothing like illegal relationship, it is religion, cultures that make it up. As far two adults have consent for each other what's illegal in the relationship?

It's illegal in the sense that they haven't sought the consent of their parents. It's a he-goat (Obuko) that would be cohabiting with a she-goat with the consent of the doe or buck. Are we animals? Why behaving like one?

tintingz:
It is the resposibility of the government to care for the people's health, safety. There are long term debates before laws are put into constitution.

So you believe it's government's responsibility to care for the health and safety of her citizens out of love and yet you can't still fathom that's it is out of love and mercy that the creator of man and his laws would laid down laws and regulations to guide man in every sphere of his life which his sexuality is not exempted??

tintingz:
Taking hard drugs is harmful to the user and to the people around him/her, imagine someone took marijuana and move aggressively to stab another person because he's high and not in his right sense.

This is not true. According to the secular society, a man can do whatever he likes in as much as he is not infringing on people's rights. Why is cigarette smoking not prohibited? It also causes harm for the smoker and even the secondary smoke is dangerous to the people close to the smoke.

Not everyone who takes marijuana gets high to the extent of stabbing the other person. That's a probability, it is not always true.

In some states and countries, attempted suicide is a crime. But is the person trying to commit suicide inflicting any harm on anybody?? It's his life, why placing punishment on it?

tintingz:
There are rules in road safety regulations and using sit belt is part of it, this is something agreed everywhere in the world, the safety is for the people in the car, government own the roads you have no choice than to follow the rules and regulations, it is like given rules for student to wear uniform. This has no logical correlation with mixing with opposite sex or having sex with anyone you wishes, as long as these two adults are ok with it and even at that there are rules in having sex, e.g rape is under criminal charges.

This is about empathy.

You are not getting the drift.
You agreed that there should be rules for driving a car because of the safety of the person who's driving the car right? The government owns the roads and you have no choice than to abide to their rules right?

Similarly, Allah owns your soul and your body and you can't use it the way you like, in the same way you can't drive on the road the way you like without following the rules and regulations of the government who owns the road, despite the fact that it is your own car.

What I am saying is that in Islam, apart from a person's right to himself and the society, Islam goes a step further and makes us to realize that rights are divided into three: The rights of an individual, rights of the society, and rights of Allah. A person is free to do whatever he or she likes as long as it does not violate the rights of other people and Allah. To become a Muslim, one has to accept this limitation on his or her personal freedom.

In other words, Islam holds a person responsible even for the use of his or her body. You are not allowed to abuse your own body or harm it.
If a person misuses or abuses his body, then he is guilty of infringing the rights of his own body and also the rights of Allah who has given the body as a trust to us. So be careful on how you use it, you may your own car (body), yet the government (Allah) has rules and regulations on how you would use your car (body) on their roads (world). Hope you got the analogy better?

tintingz:
People who are married and people not married are still practicing same relationship, the latter was design to make the relationship known to the family, friends and law, and some religious, cultural reasons. I can do all these without making it looks like marriage.

Two people cohabiting together is not marriage. Why?
They are not recognized by the society as husband and wife. The wife can't inherit the husband when he is dead.

tintingz:
People practice premarital sex in western countries and no one is persecuted for it, even their baby mamas are being given child support, they don't have problem with premarital sex in the western world, it is religion, culture that makes it illegal, sin. There is a marriage called open relationship(marriage), where the couples can have multiple sexual partners and they won't have problem with it.

There are few people that have problem with it, even in the western world. Russell says "If we are to allow the new morality [of unrestrained sex] to take its course, it is bound to go further than it has done, and to raise difficulties hardly as yet appreciated.

If, on the other hand, we attempt in the modern world to enforce restrictions which were possible in a former [Christian] age, we are led into an impossible stringency of regulation, against which human nature would soon rebel. This is so clear that, whatever the dangers or difficulties, we must be content to let the world go forward rather than back.

For this purpose we shall need a genuinely new morality. I mean by this that obligations and duties will still have to be recognized, though they may be very different from the obligations and duties recognized in the past.
. I do not think that the new system any more than the old should involve an unbridled yielding to impulse, but I think the occasions for restraining impulse and the motives for doing so will have to be different from what they have been in the past.''(Russell, Marriage and Morals, p. 91-92.)

tintingz:
Lol, I have read a lot about hijabi sisters being raped. It is no news.
Because some women wear hijab doesn't mean they can't be raped, there are pervert vampires that love to rape women in hijab.

I don't know where you saw me saying that women in Hijab can't be raped. I never said so, you just keep hammering on it.

tintingz:
Good, if someone can rape a goat, how come hijab sisters can't be raped. I even seen a video of a young man raping a chicken!!!!

Who says hijab sisters can't be raped? The fact is that the ratio of women in hijab that got raped to that of woman not using hijab is low. Take it or leave it.

tintingz:
There are some people that cant control thier sexual urge even if they live in saudi, the more reason polygamy is legal and early marraige is recommended.

True.

tintingz:
Yes but it's against some freedom of people's choice. Women can't use perfumes?

Ok.

I guess this is the freedom you are also looking for right? To do things that only appear logically to you? As a muslim, you should know that there are limits and it is not a must you comprehend the wisdom behind most laws.

For example, the story of Musa (AS) and Khidr when they boarded a ship. Khidr scuttled the ship despite the fact the people gave them a free ride. To you, is what Khidr did explained logically? Absolutely not, it's not logically that you would scuttled a ship of the people who gave a ride without pay. Yet, there is divine wisdom behind that, quite beyond the knowledge of men.

lanrexlan:
It's illegal in the sense that they haven't sought the consent of their parents. It's a he-goat (Obuko) that would be cohabiting with a she-goat with the consent of the doe or buck. Are we animals? Why behaving like one?

Scientifically we are among mammal animal species, so dont be surprise if humans possess animistic behavior.

Many people having relationship without any form of marriage are already known by the parents. Some couples cohabits for years, have kids before doing wedding ceremony. I know some.

So you believe it's government's responsibility to care for the health and safety of her citizens out of love and yet you can't still fathom that's it is out of love and mercy that the creator of man and his laws would laid down laws and regulations to guide man in every sphere of his life which his sexuality is not exempted??

Lol, please how does perfumes hurt or harm someone? What is wrong for a woman to scent nice? Why allow it for men but prohibited for women?

Again we are talking about empathy here.

This is not true. According to the secular society, a man can do whatever he likes in as much as he is not infringing on people's rights. Why is cigarette smoking not prohibited? It also causes harm for the smoker and even the secondary smoke is dangerous to the people close to the smoke.

Not everyone who takes marijuana gets high to the extent of stabbing the other person. That's a probability, it is not always true.

Cigarette is tobacco, it doesn't make someone go high or make someone misbehave but it is not healthy(risk of kidney, lung diseases etc) as it is placed in their commercials, adverts, one have the choice to smoke it or not it is left for the person. cigarette is not classify as hard drug. Marijuana is hard drug that make someone misbehave to the extent of hurting another person, drinking and smoking weed is not allowed while driving as it can cause alot of damage to human life like accidents. Keeping weeds, cannabis is illegal.

In some states and countries, attempted suicide is a crime. But is the person trying to commit suicide inflicting any harm on anybody?? It's his life, why placing punishment on it?

Which country criminalize suicide attempt? it is only religious counties like Saudi criminalize suicide attempt.
What many countries do to suicide attempt person is send him/her to see a psychologist for counselling.

You are not getting the drift.
You agreed that there should be rules for driving a car because of the safety of the person who's driving the car right? The government owns the roads and you have no choice than to abide to their rules right?

Similarly, Allah owns your soul and your body and you can't use it the way you like, in the same way you can't drive on the road the way you like without following the rules and regulations of the government who owns the road, despite the fact that it is your own car.

What I am saying is that in Islam, apart from a person's right to himself and the society, Islam goes a step further and makes us to realize that rights are divided into three: The rights of an individual, rights of the society, and rights of Allah. A person is free to do whatever he or she likes as long as it does not violate the rights of other people and Allah. To become a Muslim, one has to accept this limitation on his or her personal freedom.

In other words, Islam holds a person responsible even for the use of his or her body. You are not allowed to abuse your own body or harm it.
If a person misuses or abuses his body, then he is guilty of infringing the rights of his own body and also the rights of Allah who has given the body as a trust to us. So be careful on how you use it, you may your own car (body), yet the government (Allah) has rules and regulations on how you would use your car (body) on their roads (world). Hope you got the analogy better?

If you work in an organization won't you abide to the rules? Government is also an organization with different bodies, so road safety is part of it, the road is like government organization public property one has to abide to the rules and regulations because this is a public usage, but using perfumes is something personal to you.

Two people cohabiting together is not marriage. Why?
They are not recognized by the society as husband and wife. The wife can't inherit the husband when he is dead.

Lol, who told you she cant inherit his property if the husband dies?, the husband can simply sign a document regard to his property using the lady's name as the second owner of his property.

These things happen without any form of marriage. This is what Oprah Winfrey did, she is not married but she has a partner and the society have no problem with it.

There are few people that have problem with it, even in the western world. Russell says "If we are to allow the new morality [of unrestrained sex] to take its course, it is bound to go further than it has done, and to raise difficulties hardly as yet appreciated.

If, on the other hand, we attempt in the modern world to enforce restrictions which were possible in a former [Christian] age, we are led into an impossible stringency of regulation, against which human nature would soon rebel. This is so clear that, whatever the dangers or difficulties, we must be content to let the world go forward rather than back.

For this purpose we shall need a genuinely new morality. I mean by this that obligations and duties will still have to be recognized, though they may be very different from the obligations and duties recognized in the past.
. I do not think that the new system any more than the old should involve an unbridled yielding to impulse, but I think the occasions for restraining impulse and the motives for doing so will have to be different from what they have been in the past.''(Russell, Marriage and Morals, p. 91-92.)

Is this man a Christian?

Does morality started in religion?

I don't know where you saw me saying that women in Hijab can't be raped. I never said so, you just keep hammering on it.

Who says hijab sisters can't be raped? The fact is that the ratio of women in hijab that got raped to that of woman not using hijab is low. Take it or leave it.

You have not presented the stats how the rate of hijab sisters is low, you cant argue base on your assumptions.

Is like you dont know the psychological behavior behind rapists.

True.

I guess this is the freedom you are also looking for right? To do things that only appear logically to you? As a muslim, you should know that there are limits and it is not a must you comprehend the wisdom behind most laws.

For example, the story of Musa (AS) and Khidr when they boarded a ship. Khidr scuttled the ship despite the fact the people gave them a free ride. To you, is what Khidr did explained logically? Absolutely not, it's not logically that you would scuttled a ship of the people who gave a ride without pay. Yet, there is divine wisdom behind that, quite beyond the knowledge of men.

What does empathy means?

@tintingz, you have started your "goalpost shifting technique" once again and I am afraid that I won't be able to continue. Truly, it is no point if argument is just back and forth, I am not here for a win or lose affair. You find it very hard to see from another person's perspective, just viewing things only through your lens.

tintingz:
Scientifically we are among mammal animal species, so dont be surprise if humans possess animistic behavior.

Many people having relationship without any form of marriage are already known by the parents. Some couples cohabits for years, have kids before doing wedding ceremony. I know some.

But the creator has given us intellect and reasoning, why don't we use them for self control? Animals can eat foods that don't belong to their owner and that's not stealing, but is it acceptable that humans also steal food because of animalistic behavior?

tintingz:
Lol, please how does perfumes hurt or harm someone? What is wrong for a woman to scent nice? Why allow it for men but prohibited for women?

Again we are talking about empathy here.

You are shifting goalpost man. I have moved on from the issue of perfumes. I only gave that analogy when you brought up the issue of free sex. Check what I quoted but now, slowly.

tintingz:
Cigarette is tobacco, it doesn't make someone go high or make someone misbehave but it is not healthy(risk of kidney, lung diseases etc) as it is placed in their commercials, adverts, one have the choice to smoke it or not it is left for the person. cigarette is not classify as hard drug. Marijuana is hard drug that make someone misbehave to the extent of hurting another person, drinking and smoking weed is not allowed while driving as it can cause alot of damage to human life like accidents. Keeping weeds, cannabis is illegal.

Bros, not everybody that takes marijuana misbehaves. I know guys who take it and don't misbehave. That's probability.

Even drinking and driving cause accidents, what is the point? Why is alcohol not prohibited??

tintingz:
Which country criminalize suicide attempt? it is only religious counties like Saudi criminalize suicide attempt.
What many countries do to suicide attempt person is send him/her to see a psychologist for counselling.

Suicide is illegal in some countries like Cyprus, Brunei, Uganda et al. It is legal in most european countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation#cite_note-1

tintingz:
If you work in an organization won't you abide to the rules? Government is also an organization with different bodies, so road safety is part of it, the road is like government organization public property one has to abide to the rules and regulations because this is a public usage, but using perfumes is something personal to you.

You are still shifting goalpost bro. I have moved on from the issue of perfumes. I only gave this analogy when you brought up the issue of free sex. You aren't following the conversation, it is like you sha wanna reply to everything without properly assessing the points raised. Islamic discussions aren't like that akhee.

tintingz:
Lol, who told you she cant inherit his property if the husband dies?, the husband can simply sign a document regard to his property using the lady's name as the second owner of his property.

These things happen without any form of marriage. This is what Oprah Winfrey did, she is not married but she has a partner and the society have no problem with it.

Alright

tintingz:
Is this man a Christian?

Does morality started in religion?

Bertrand Arthur William Russell, 3rd Earl Russell (May 18, 1872 – February 2, 1970) was a British philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian, and social critic. In 1950, he was awarded a Nobel Prize in Literature.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

He wrote a book titled "Why I am not a Christian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian

tintingz:
You have not presented the stats how the rate of hijab sisters is low, you cant argue base on your assumptions.

Is like you dont know the psychological behavior behind rapists.

It is not assumptions. Go check statistics and see for yourself. I barely heard or read hijabi women being raped, I am not saying it is not possible or can't occur.

tintingz:
What does empathy means?

What does empathy has to do with what Musa and Khidr's story?

Salaam alaykum Warahmatulah Wabarokatuh
It is nice chatting with ya

lanrexlan:
@tintingz, you have started your "goalpost shifting technique" once again and I am afraid that I won't be able to continue. Truly, it is no point if argument is just back and forth, I am not here for a win or lose affair. You find it very hard to see from another person's perspective, just viewing things only through your lens.

Where did i go red herring? Kindly point them out.

But the creator has given us intellect and reasoning, why don't we use them for self control? Animals can eat foods that don't belong to their owner and that's not stealing, but is it acceptable that humans also steal food because of animalistic behavior?

Our gift as humans is our intellect but that does not make us special than every other animals as we can't fly nor breath under water but still are special in one way or the other. The more reason laws were/are created to control humans but does is eradicate some behavior? NO, because we are part of animal specie according science.

You should also ask why humans steal food in the first place, during early humans, they steal foods, kill for survival which still happen till date.

You are shifting goalpost man. I have moved on from the issue of perfumes. I only gave that analogy when you brought up the issue of free sex. Check what I quoted but now, slowly.

The topic is about perfume prohibited for women, i'm not shifting any goal post.

Bros, not everybody that takes marijuana misbehaves. I know guys who take it and don't misbehave. That's probability.

Even drinking and driving cause accidents, what is the point? Why is alcohol not prohibited??

There might be double standard between alcohol and marijuana when it comes to law, in america in years back the prohibition of alcohol was forwarded but didn't succeed because some religion, culture make use of alcohol and many more reasons. But marijuana is rated as hard drug although some countries like Holland partially did not totally prohibit marijuana but that does not make it legal in the state.

Suicide is illegal in some countries like Cyprus, Brunei, Uganda et al. It is legal in most european countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation#cite_note-1

I have gone through the laws, they are not under criminal charges, and these countries are just few.

You are still shifting goalpost bro. I have moved on from the issue of perfumes. I only gave this analogy when you brought up the issue of free sex. You aren't following the conversation, it is like you sha wanna reply to everything without properly assessing the points raised. Islamic discussions aren't like that akhee.

Alright

Everything about our arguments boils under issue of perfumes.

Bertrand Arthur William Russell, 3rd Earl Russell (May 18, 1872 – February 2, 1970) was a British philosopher, logician, mathematician, historian, and social critic. In 1950, he was awarded a Nobel Prize in Literature.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

He wrote a book titled "Why I am not a Christian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian

You quoted from his book in your previous post, what do you understand by it?

Kindly give the link to the article so i can get the full context of the book.

It is not assumptions. Go check statistics and see for yourself. I barely heard or read hijabi women being raped, I am not saying it is not possible or can't occur.

Lol, it is still assumption.

I know this because I've seen, heard, or read multiple first-person accounts by victims of sexual harassment and sexualized violence who were wearing the hijab when they were attacked. The hijab cannot and will not stop men from assaulting women. Even if the only part of a woman's body that shows is her shadow, deviants will sexualize and fetishize it. Take the example of Egypt, where sexual harassment against women has become almost a pandemic—whether they wear the hijab or not.

The myth that there's a correlation between the hijab and a low incidence of sexual harassment and violence against women actually systematically victimizes them. Men are doing women a disservice in that they are placing blame on women who don’t cover themselves, as well as insinuating that a woman who is attacked while wearing a headscarf somehow did something to deserve it.

As with all victim-blaming, this prevents women from speaking up about sexual assault.
http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/the-myth-of-how-the-hijab-protects-women-against-sexual-assault

What does empathy has to do with what Musa and Khidr's story?

Salaam alaykum Warahmatulah Wabarokatuh
It is nice chatting with ya

We are talking about what is wrong and right, so i asked what is empathy?

Wa'alaykum salaam waramatulah wabarakatuhu, nice chatting with you as well brother.