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China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by netprofit(m): 4:17pm On Jan 30, 2010
By CARA ANNA, Associated Press Writer Cara Anna, Associated Press Writer – 57 mins ago

BEIJING – China suspended military exchanges with the United States and threatened sanctions against American defense companies Saturday, just hours after Washington announced $6.4 billion in planned arms sales to Taiwan.

The development has further strained the complex relations between the two powers, which are increasingly linked by security and economic issues.

China's Defense Ministry said the sales to self-governing Taiwan, which the mainland claims as its own, cause "severe harm" to overall U.S.-China cooperation, the state-run Xinhua News Agency reported. The Foreign Ministry threatened sanctions against U.S. companies involved in the arms sales.

A spokeswoman for the U.S. Embassy, Susan Stevenson, had no comment on China's actions Saturday.

Taiwan is the most sensitive topic in U.S.-China relations, and the sales announced Friday could complicate cooperation between the two sides on issues ranging from Iran's nuclear program to the loosening of Internet controls, including a Google-China standoff over censorship.

China's Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei warned U.S. Ambassador Jon Huntsman that the sales of Black Hawk helicopters, Patriot Advanced Capability-3 missiles and other weapons to Taiwan would "cause consequences that both sides are unwilling to see," a ministry statement said Saturday.

The United States is Taiwan's most important ally and largest arms supplier, and it's bound by law to ensure the island is able to respond to Chinese threats.

China responds angrily to any proposed arms sale, however, and it also cut off military ties with the U.S. in 2008 after the former Bush administration announced a multibillion-dollar arms sale to Taiwan.

Washington has tried to use military visits to build trust with Beijing and learn more about the aims of its massive military buildup.

Overall ties have been tense as President Barack Obama plans to meet with the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, this year. It's not known whether the Taiwan arms sale will affect President Hu Jintao's expected visit to the U.S. this year.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100130/ap_on_re_as/as_china_us_taiwan_arms_sales
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by Nobody: 4:21pm On Jan 30, 2010
na today?
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by honeric01(m): 4:30pm On Jan 30, 2010
If these 2 decides to fight, mennn, Heads go roll, but i think China will prevail, The US gets very extremely over sensitive once a citizen is killed but the reverse is with China, so i think with that, the Chinese''ll prevail.

Infact, they can singlehandedly cripple the American economy. (might take time but the American economy has sucked into the Chinese breast that it won't take too much for China to deal with them.)
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by netprofit(m): 4:38pm On Jan 30, 2010
He be like say China want see real wahala from US

Make God no let that happen ooo, Amin
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by coldhearts(f): 6:19pm On Jan 31, 2010
The U.S is like a child throwing tantrums because he can't get what he wants -oil, power, perhaps war for hidden agendas. It continues to isolate itself from the world, even some Europeans have anti-American sentiments.

I think it doesn't realize yet that you do not insult those you're indebted to (Us owes china billions in bonds), A nation in debt is a poor country and has no say in many things. U.S seems unable to adjust to it's new status - that is the problem.

Maybe it wants to kill off the creditor so it won't have to pay lol - it would be a big mistake to try that on China.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by ElRazur: 7:04pm On Jan 31, 2010
coldhearts:

The U.S is like a child throwing tantrums because he can't get what he wants -oil, power, perhaps war for hidden agendas. It continues to isolate itself from the world, even some Europeans have anti-American sentiments.

I think it doesn't realize yet that you do not insult those you're indebted to (Us owes china billions in bonds), A nation in debt is a  poor country and has no say in many things. U.S seems unable to adjust to it's new status - that is the problem.

Maybe it wants to kill off the creditor so it won't have to pay lol - it would be a big mistake to try that on China.

And not because Taiwan is one of many nation that do not want to be part of china? No? Not because several missles are pointing at mainland Taiwan and from china? No? Nice. As much as China have bonds, it still rely on the world's number one consumer - USA and her allies to be able to survive. Things are more complicated than the biased view you presented.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by coldhearts(f): 11:16pm On Jan 31, 2010
EIRazu,
you do have a point that things are complicated but why complicate it further by providing arms to a region that will likely loose if war broke out. U.S can barely handle its own problems at home. There's no jobs, minorities (including Asians) have the highest job loses, bad leadership (dems and repubs) and high debt; now U.S sells arms and ideal fantasies to people all over the world too lol.

Do you really think that U.S cares that some Taiwanese people would rather remain separate from China? it's ok if you do i guess.

The idea that the U.S wants to liberate Taiwan by arming it is merely ideological, Taiwanese people will most likely suffer the consequences of this more.

Lastly, it will be as detrimental to the U.S if china kicks this so called number one consumer to the curb if not more so i hope it doesn't happen.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by ElRazur: 9:59am On Feb 01, 2010
coldhearts:

EIRazu,
you do have a point that things are complicated but why complicate it further by providing arms to a region that will likely loose if war broke out. U.S can barely handle its own problems at home. There's  no jobs, minorities (including Asians) have the highest job loses, bad leadership (dems and repubs) and  high debt; now U.S sells arms and ideal fantasies to  people all over the world too lol.

I think you will find that all the points I raised are VALID, not just one part.

I think it is a common misconception for people to try and argue that home should be fixed first before anything is done outside. Again, things do not work that way, this is Security and foreign policy and hence, have nothing to do with the issue at home. For example, if the foreign policy is to provide food for a million somalians every year, a nation is under obligation to carry out those policy even though there may be food scarcity at home. That is how POLICY work. Having said that, sometimes, these policy can be amended, but until then the nation is obliged to them.

Do you really think that U.S cares  that some Taiwanese people would rather remain separate from China? it's ok if you do i guess.

The foreign policy of the US towards the Taiwanese people will suggest so. So yes they do care. After all, the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act allows the US to HELP in the Island defences. So USA is acting within legal rights and hence helping the people of Taiwan.

The idea that the U.S wants to liberate Taiwan by arming it is merely ideological, Taiwanese people will most likely suffer the consequences of this more.

Do you have any idea, how inaccurate what you are saying is? Not to sound arrogant, but you may want to pick up a book and read up. Taiwan is governed by a separate government since the end of the Chinese civil war. It do not consider itself as part of china. The biggest ally is the USA and have helped in the past. Also the deal that is causing all these problems is STILL going ahead, so how is it just "merely ideological"? 

China have threatened the existence of Taiwan from the very onset, the only reason china haven't gone all out attack on them is because of the US. Besides, Taiwan government is quoted as saying the Arms deal will make them more secure.

I don't know about you, but if you do not want to be a part of a household and as a result you've had every threat made to you, various missiles pointed at you as result, and then the world most technologically advanced nation offers you some weapons from her Arsenal as part of a deal [to support you against your neighbour] I guess you wont take it? I know for sure that I will take it.

Lastly, it will be as detrimental to the U.S if china kicks this so called number one consumer to the curb if not more so i hope it doesn't happen.

Again, things are interwoven, China will likely suffer the most. When it comes to all out war, money plays very little part. What matters is your technical-know how, range of weaponry, your allies and who are willing to die for you. US can count on almost all the nations in the west apart from a few. Who is cihina going to turn too? Russia and Iran? I do not know about you, but I will rather be in the US camp. They aint  world Super power for no reasons you see.

PS
I will post a thread shortly about how china is conducting espionage and attacks on Western business interest etc. I wonder what your view will be? Blame the US?
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by RichyBlacK(m): 10:30am On Feb 01, 2010
See China wan try im big uncle. Laugh wan kill me.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by AjanleKoko: 12:05pm On Feb 01, 2010
ElRazur:

Again, things are interwoven, China will likely suffer the most. When it comes to all out war, money plays very little part. What matters is your technical-know how, range of weaponry, your allies and who are willing to die for you. US can count on almost all the nations in the west apart from a few. Who is cihina going to turn too? Russia and Iran? I do not know about you, but I will rather be in the US camp. They aint world Super power for no reasons you see.

A few years ago, I might have agreed.
But these days, I doubt the US will get that much support from Western nations, serious support in any case. Case in point Iraq and Afghanistan.
Granted, they have superior arms, but what about the cash? China's got lots of that.
That kind of war is not even going to happen. China is just trying on some arm-twisting diplomacy. But let's see.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by ElRazur: 12:25pm On Feb 01, 2010
AjanleKoko:

A few years ago, I might have agreed.
But these days, I doubt the US will get that much support from Western nations, serious support in any case. Case in point Iraq and Afghanistan.
Granted, they have superior arms, but what about the cash? China's got lots of that.
That kind of war is not even going to happen. China is just trying on some arm-twisting diplomacy. But let's see.

Look when an all out war breaks out, US will get support from Nato forces - they are US allies. Nato forces may have a few disagreement but majority will carry the vote. Then on top of that, UK will be fighting along side the US. Please tell me something, if you have the US, UK France and Germany - all the heavy weights with supports from few other nations. What chances do China have? These nation will suffer no doubt, but in the end China may not live to tell the tale.

As for cash, I keep telling you guys that things are interwoven. If nations like UK, US, France, Germany et al won't accept your cash, what good is it? Again both parties will suffer, but China will stand to lose out the most. In an all out war, things like economical laws do not play in the same norm we know in my opinion.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by coldhearts(f): 5:06pm On Feb 01, 2010
I think it's a bit delusional to think all these countries will continue to go in the direction of madness (all out war) and i say this with all due respect. Bear in mind that Europeans love life more than death while America is on a suicide mission, Europe is merely grudgingly following the lead for now - this clearly show in the amount of troops it pledges each time to Afghan.

what happens when Europe gives in to its people's call to stop the war or was that simply ruled out. There's pure hate for Americans almost everywhere especially in the so called allies because people love peace.

By the way, i'm sure Americans are not that foolish to presume that Taiwan (many Taiwanese are descendants of China itself) is more than a paper ally and the arms deal are probably antiquated stuff but this is merely my opinion.

I agree with the comment you made that in war economical laws do not play in the same norm which explains a bit about U.S new strategy. Hope it doesn't get a surprise.

I'm sure you realize that china's cash can easily be accepted by many nations besides the ones you mentioned. I know we will not agree on this issue and my initial statement still stands so here is a virtual handshake.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by ElRazur: 5:26pm On Feb 01, 2010
coldhearts:

I think it's a bit delusional to think all these countries will continue to go in the direction of madness (all out war) and i say this with all due respect. Bear in mind that Europeans love life more than death while America is on a suicide mission, Europe is merely grudgingly following the lead for now - this clearly show in the amount of troops it pledges each time to Afghan.

How is it delusional? You forgot almost half the world took out Hitler in WW2. Look, when an all out war is looming, the rational thinking of man changes to that of a survival instinct.

The war in Afghanistan is not an "all out war", this is a war against non-conventional forces hence the scenario is different. They is like comparing Oranges and a fish tank. They bear no relations what so ever.


what happens when Europe gives in to its people's call to stop the war or was that simply ruled out. There's pure hate for Americans almost everywhere especially in the so called allies because people love peace.

A lot of people protested against many things, it do not mean that their wish will be granted. You just do not stop an all out war just because a few thousands of people or a few millions of people wants to in the face of overwhelming support from millions and millions of people across several nations.  I'm sorry, but things do not work like that in International politics.

By the way, i'm sure Americans are not that foolish to presume that Taiwan (many Taiwanese are descendants of China itself) is more than a paper ally and  the arms deal are probably antiquated stuff but this is merely my opinion. 

What is that got to do with anything? There are Chinese of Japanese origin when Japan attacked china in world war 2. Again, your opinion is incorrect am afraid. The arms deal is a major one, it will cost about  6.4 billion dollars and this aint for bows ans arrows, but heavy weaponry, flight defences, fighter jets, personnel training etc. Look, no nation will spend that kind of money for outdated equipment. [May be some idiots in Nigeria will, but not other nation. Yes Nigeria spend million of dollars on some silly chinese-made fighter recently]

I agree with the comment you made that in war economical laws do not play in the same norm which explains a bit about U.S new strategy. Hope it doesn't get a surprise.

Glad we agree on something. smiley

I'm sure you realize that china's cash can easily be accepted by many nations besides the ones you mentioned. I know we will not agree on this issue and my initial statement still stands so here is a virtual handshake.

Again it is not clear cut. But refer back to my previous points. smiley US is one of the largest "consumer nation" on earth, to pull them out from china will lead to a massive issue on china etc.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by coldhearts(f): 5:59pm On Feb 01, 2010
like i said earlier, U.S is on a suicide mission if it goes in that direction of war which i doubt. Hopefully the world doesn't change the war to destroy America itself because survival also leads people to back up whoever is winning the war. The average person knows this.

call it treaty of 1959 but it is psychological to go back to the past when in distress (perhaps a point where u.s felt powerful) - old tricks,

look when you are weak, it makes more sense to give in to the strong neighbor, that is a survival instinct maybe Taiwan will realize this in time. A foreigner might help for their own cause but in the end, the foreigner goes home and Taiwanese will still remain there assuming there's anyone left surviving after such war.

My point remains U.S will suffer more, that is where i place my bet.
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by ElRazur: 6:11pm On Feb 01, 2010
Okay sir. I guess making personal claims without much substance is good enough for you? China is looking like the one heading for suicide mission. But never mind, thank god I am not a betting man. I will not be taking your tip as something to bet on. grin
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by coldhearts(f): 6:17pm On Feb 01, 2010
good one lol
i'm too stingy to give tips anyway grin
Re: China Suspends Military Exchanges With Us by naijaway(m): 4:21pm On Feb 02, 2010
Both USA and china don't want problem but if problem arises and its serious between this two hmmn; I must remind you that this will not be viewed as iraq or afghanistan because it will be close to that's if not world war. South korea- US side, North korea - china side, taiwan - us side, vietnam - china side, japan - ? might just be attacked by china just to be on the safe side but that will make her decide quicker, russia - ? might stay neutral inorder to finish off who is hurt but survived, but america is not stupid so they might as well attack russia by claiming their equipment were used, which will in effect bring in india, pakistan, and europe wheher they like it or not. But overall, USA vs china is Usa with 25states or less remaining while the whole of china uninhabitable, same with military areas of russia, north korea, and iran. Might as well do it at the same time. At times like that, Usa don't care about the life of citizens, it will end it the shortest way possible from armed satelites, to very crude new missles, to naval, etc the one thing out of the picture would be land war, china will win that one hands down. Don't get it wrong china has some effects in store but not with an unrestricted american anger.
If Usa can humble herself and not act crazy, china won't matter but if arrogance is seriously involved, am afraid that will bring usa down but after china diminshes and a totally new world power arises maybe brazil or SA. Obama is in town, so arrogance is out of the picture, strictly strategy at work. Because of the Usa, countries think twice before even attacking their neighbors with some exception to russia. China was rushing to stack up weapons to boost their confidence but Obama is in town now, so the competition has taken a different run. At least, america can get to more resources unlike before where everyone shut out america due to stupid arrogance.
China don't want economic war either. A job in america might pay you 15 per hour and in china, it is 1.50 per hour or even day. When they wisen up to demand at least 8 or even 9 per hour, then china will be trying to solve wha america has been solving since, coupled with social blankets, etc. Which might end up threatening their political system, which will have consequences including civil war.
If Africa had confidence and vision, a brilliant leader would talk sense to obama and his team, by making obama and them solve unemployment issues in america and somewhat in many parts of africa by training people, doing some infrastructural works, and military. Those deals should have a window to be renewed every three years, that way no one locks in on an agreement because an arroant Usa president might emerge.
Long story short, America vs china is not possible yet, but even if it were, i will call it america vs china and russia, because russia will attack the survivor and europe might do the same. World war 3, it will happen but can't predict when, i hope not anytime soon or this century. China is getting stronger by the day tho. Let there be peace in the world.

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