Thanks alot

zeestone99:


the luminous have low idle consuption and low charging current. i dont know about the other brand.

Fairly new 200ah inverter battery up for sale .

Condition: Neat , tested okay.

Price: 50k

Smartcellglobal services
081-350-319-51

bigrovar:

Thanks for posting this. This is great news and makes me a bit more optimistic about Lithium although it does little to change my current stand that Lithium works best when procuredas an integrated all in one plug and play package. This is where it shines. We have a 150k dollars solar project at work and i am recommending we use lithium because at that scale and the money involved it is a no brainer. But for the average solar DIY Turnkey plug and play solutions are totally out of reach for now. And the time value of money and the huge thin margin of failure involved in assemblying lithium battery packs made up of different independent components clubbered together together to work as a unit is something I am not ready to dabble in. I don't have that much money to waste. The day we have a knock on wood lithium battery based solution plug and play and within reach then count me in. For now lithium would be solution for enterprise, large scale project, and specialised applications like mobile and auto where the economy of scale makes it a no brainer

Apt !

pranil:


T[b]he lithium raw material in a Li-ion battery is only a fraction of one cent per watt, or less than 1 percent of the battery cost. [/b]A $10,000 battery for a plug-in hybrid contains less than $100 worth of lithium. Shortages when producing millions of large batteries for vehicles and stationary applications could increase the price, but for now this is not the case.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/availability_of_lithium

The prices are bound to drop as the production ramps up and more players enter market - The cost of Lithium battery comes from clean production processes and not the raw materials
Attached is a nice video explaining the challenges .

That is the reason the semiconductor/ chip suppliers were ahead of the race ( Samsung, LG, Pansonic, Sony) but Chinese companies are catching up ( BYD... etc)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2819K8_m7c

AThe Bloomberg survey gives a nice overlook since 2012 -

https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/


P.s -Gambia is planning a 8 MWh battery bank to work with 20 MW PV power plant to offset the diesel production currently powering the country - Imagine trying to achieve that with lead acid and the environmental impact of such large quantities of lead

Nice analysis! A boss is a boss ... Good morning Sir !

Braaad:


Hello, do you by any chance have replacement control board for the magnum (MS4124)??

Available

[quote author=chris81964 post=79290834]

One lesson that I have learnt over time is this. Why should I drink panadol over another person's headache.

It is amazing that despite all the good advice that you have given this young person they insist on what they think they know.

I have been doing customized lithium ion solutions for about 1 year. We initially did not use a BMS. We destroyed a few batteries but eventually the inevitable happened. Our client had a fire. The fire service had to break the door and they told the client that the fire had to extinguish itself. Our Chevy Volt Lithium Ion batteries had caught on fire. The smoke damage cost me almost N100k to clean. I have not painted the room yet or fixed the door that got broken. The charge controller got destroyed (Schneider) but we were lucky the Schneider SW inverter is still functioning.

Used laptop batteries have cells of different capacities. Some will charge and discharge much faster than others. It is just a matter of time before you get a problem with your fan and the batteries.
Pray that you are at home the day it happens.[/quoted]

Wow oga Chris, infact I don't like lithium again
If ba3 go spoil mk e spoil wch one b fire again. If e like mk e com with BMW, i no do lol

Zee don fear o. de even said unquenchable fire. chai, fire fighter saw it and melo. see make I come go.

ehen pls help me drop contacts for solar fridge package sharply I beg u before d fire catch

Not all Lithium batteries catch fire. Some Lithium chemistries are quite safe even under extreme abuse.

I am sure we all have mobile phone with Lithium batteries. How many of such phones have been ignited by the battery?

Lithium batteries are quite safe when operated within the specifications given by the manufacturer. For the battery to catch fire, you have to abuse it by operating it outside the limits set by the manufacturer.

The gas cooker in your house will catch fire if abused.
The generator will also catch fire if abused
Your car will catch fire if abused

The risk of fire has not stopped us from buying and using the items listed above. We have only learnt to operate them safely. If you do same for Lithium batteries, you have nothing to fear.

dapsyra:
Not all Lithium batteries catch fire. Some Lithium chemistries are quite safe even under extreme abuse.

I am sure we all have mobile phone with Lithium batteries. How many of such phones have been ignited by the battery?

Lithium batteries are quite safe when operated within the specifications given by the manufacturer. For the battery to catch fire, you have to abuse it by operating it outside the limits set by the manufacturer.

The gas cooker in your house will catch fire if abused.
The generator will also catch fire if abused
Your car will catch fire if abused

The risk of fire has not stopped us from buying and using the items listed above. We have only learnt to operate them safely. If you do same for Lithium batteries, you have nothing to fear.

The problem is few people intentionality willfully abuse their system. For majority abuse happens when you use the wrong components. Wrong charger wrong BMS or even the wrong Lithium packs. Which again is why I said Lithium works best in a closed loop system where all is considered where the coupling integration is all done for the user with safety and anti abuse measures built in. This is what tesla brings to the table.. A Turnkey solution. And it is what you get with your smartphone everything is well designed to the point u don't even know what battery tech powers it. Most phones u can't even see the battery or remove it.

The skill level of installing lithium in a traditional good ol clubber together assembled offgrid setup is very high the number of things that have to be just right is alot and margin of failure very very thin. The cost is so much that you just have to get it right the first time or millions go down the drain (if you are lucky)

bigrovar:


The problem is few people intentionality willfully abuse their system. For majority abuse happens when you use the wrong components. Wrong charger wrong BMS or even the wrong Lithium packs. Which again is why I said Lithium works best in a closed loop system where all is considered where the coupling integration is all done for the user with safety and anti abuse measures built in. This is what tesla brings to the table.. A Turnkey solution. And it is what you get with your smartphone everything is well designed to the point u don't even know what battery tech powers it. Most phones u can't even see the battery or remove it.

The skill level of installing lithium in a traditional good ol clubber together assembled offgrid setup is very high the number of things that have to be just right is alot and margin of failure very very thin. The cost is so much that you just have to get it right the first time or millions go down the drain (if you are lucky)

Apt! All in one Lithium solution coming soon... Made in 9ja. Watch this space

bigrovar:

Thanks for posting this. This is great news and makes me a bit more optimistic about Lithium although it does little to change my current stand that Lithium works best when procuredas an integrated all in one plug and play package. This is where it shines. We have a 150k dollars solar project at work and i am recommending we use lithium because at that scale and the money involved it is a no brainer. But for the average solar DIY Turnkey plug and play solutions are totally out of reach for now. And the time value of money and the huge thin margin of failure involved in assemblying lithium battery packs made up of different independent components clubbered together together to work as a unit is something I am not ready to dabble in. I don't have that much money to waste. The day we have a knock on wood lithium battery based solution plug and play and within reach then count me in. For now lithium would be solution for enterprise, large scale project, and specialised applications like mobile and auto where the economy of scale makes it a no brainer

Really, the DIY is what most are concerned about, i have been working on preliminaries for a project and i found out many companies sells a plug and play Lithium power pack solutions , LG chem, Meritsun, BYD etc and also some others sells with their high end inverters like Growatt, ABB etc

I have a project i am currently working on , 270KW of solar panel with 710KWH of battery power(considering OPzV though customer says Lithium is what he wants), in this case , the whole inverter and Lithium could be gotten as a solution is a shipping container and thats it,

also, another option is getting 40KWH Nissan Leaf batteries and working it out using some BMS but this requires some serious time and effort investment.

the Lithium Journey is an interesting one and if i have to be sincere, its taking over the Renewable energy space

kiekie1:
Fairly new 200ah inverter battery up for sale .

Condition: Neat , tested okay.

Price: 50k

Smartcellglobal services
081-350-319-51

What's the battery brand name? Can you upload pictures if possible

Jamzig1:

Apt! All in one Lithium solution coming soon... Made in 9ja. Watch this space

I trust you my man, happy Sunday Sir !

Lahotade:


What's the battery brand name? Can you upload pictures if possible

It's a neatly used bluegate battery .. Thanks

Towards the discussion about the Lithium battery revolution
http://batterytestcentre.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Battery-Testing-Report-6-June-2019.pdf

This may have gotten missed with all the flurry and fuss the Lithium discussions generated.

In my house, I use 4 units of HA02 with 16 batteries - what you are experiencing is the the difference in voltage calibration between your 2 HA02 units while each unit is trying to bring the specific bank it is attached to to a position of voltage equilibrium at thesame time as loads are draining the bank or charge is going into the bank.

My advise to you would be to connect each relative position in each bank in parallel with each other e.g +ve of Batt1 Bank1 to +ve of Batt1 Bank2 and -ve of Batt1 Bank1 to -ve of Batt1 Bank2 using minimum 4mm wire properly crimped - do this across each matching pair of batteries in Bank1 and Bank2. So you have minimum 16mm cables for your main battery series connections and minimum 4mm cable for the 'balancing circuit'

With this config, each battery will be at the exact same voltage potential as the equivalent position battery in the other bank and so your HA02 is balancing 4 large batteries with 1 single voltage equilibrium reference point instead of 8 smaller batteries with 2 different voltage equilibrium references.

Once your wiring is setup this way, you can either attach 1 HA02 to one battery bank or 2 HA02s right on top of each other comnected to thesame position on the batteries (with 2 HA02s in thesame position, you are essentially doubling the ability to move balancing current around).

This is how I have done it for my last 8 or so customers who used 8 to 16 batteries apiece in a 48v config and only 1 HA02 per customer - all are happy and the longest user has done 2 years now with no disequilibrium.

If I knew then what I know now, in my early days of experimenting with the HA02, I would have bought only one unit for my 16 batteries - I have the wiring setup just as I adviced but I have grown too lazy in my old age to detach the remaining 3 HA02s from my batteries.

earthrealm:
Anybody using 2 units of HA02 balancer on a bank of 12v x 8 Batts?.
The diagram from the seller shows you can use only 1 unit. But am using 2 units, wondering if that's the probable cause for the imbalance in my bank. It's more pronounced when the Batts are depleted.when full...just 0.1v or 0.2v disparity.
When depleted upto 0.6v
my bank is arranged in 2 strings of 4 batts each, hooked up to a bus bar

kiekie1:


I trust you my man, happy Sunday Sir !

Happy Sunday sir Frankie! Hope business is going well

I wanted to add to that contrary to popular belief using a bus bar may do very little to balance individual batteries, rather it helps bring the total series pack voltage of each bank connected to the busbar to thesame voltage equilibrium as the separate banks are essentially connected in parallel by the bus bar.

In your 2 48v banks connected to a bus bar scenario, both banks should read same voltage e.g 50v but inside bank1, you may see one battery at 12.5v, another at 13v, another at 12.1v and another at 12.4v with bank2 also doing its own thing - this imbalance within and across banks is what kills lead acid batteries as the lower voltage batteries undercharge, sulfate and overdrain/overdischarge while the higher voltage batteries overcharge and boil dry.

earthrealm:
Anybody using 2 units of HA02 balancer on a bank of 12v x 8 Batts?.
The diagram from the seller shows you can use only 1 unit. But am using 2 units, wondering if that's the probable cause for the imbalance in my bank. It's more pronounced when the Batts are depleted.when full...just 0.1v or 0.2v disparity.
When depleted upto 0.6v
my bank is arranged in 2 strings of 4 batts each, hooked up to a bus bar

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This may have gotten missed with all the flurry and fuss the Lithium discussions generated.



My advise to you would be to connect each relative position in each bank in parallel with each other e.g +ve of Batt1 Bank1 to +ve of Batt1 Bank2 and -ve of Batt1 Bank1 to -ve of Batt1 Bank2 using minimum 4mm wire properly crimped - do this across each matching pair of batteries in Bank1 and Bank2. So you have minimum 16mm cables for your main battery series connections and minimum 4mm cable for the 'balancing circuit'

With this config, each battery will be at the exact same voltage potential as the equivalent position battery in the other bank and so your HA02 is balancing 4 large batteries with 1 single voltage equilibrium reference point instead of 8 smaller batteries with 2 different voltage equilibrium references.
.

thnks for the explanation, though with this connection, the individual battery voltage display have no option but to read the same voltage, for each set of parallel batts, inadvertently masking the true individual voltage........ what do you think??.

2ndly, the method you stated above seems to go a step further than the aliexpress HA02 seller method i posted earlier, whatdayathink??

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Monbat battery 200a "March production date" ..... 145k
Canadian solar panels 375w mono ....... 67k
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Contact,
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081-350-319-51
WHATSAPP::: https:///2348170385620

Given that the batteries were healthy ab initio, placing them in parallel is not masking their true voltage but rather providing a means for them to come to equilibrium - with two batteries in parallel the voltage of the system starts off at that of the lowest battery but immediately starts working towards a common midpoint as the two batteries get to thesame approximate state of charge. With a parallel connection properly done, you convert two batteries into one big battery.

The HA02 diagram for 8 × 12v battery in a 48v config is exactly thesame as putting the same position battery in parallel across banks with an attempt to simplify the wiring - across the series connected battery terminals, placing any one position in parallel with another bank''s equivalent series connected terminals should achieve thesame as placing each individual position in parallel with the other bank's matching position - with the kind of cables we use for battery connection here, I see no easy way to achieve that diagram except one were using flat plates (copper or aluminum) for the series connections and then bolting a jumper cable between the banks' series connected plates.

This is reminiscient of how the HA01 with just 3 wires connects to the series portion of two 12v batteries made up to 24v - the white wire could go to either the positive or negative terminal of the series connection or be bolted to the middle of the connecting plate as the diagram implies -
based on field experience, we all know that this may not yield the best results for balancing. Instead of such a complicated and variable path for balancing current to flow through, I'd rather do a simple parallel connection across the batteries so that from an electricity flow point of view, there are just 4 batteries for the HA02 to balance even though physically you had 16 or 20 or more batteries.

earthrealm:


thnks for the explanation, though with this connection, the individual battery voltage display have no option but to read the same voltage, for each set of parallel batts, inadvertently masking the true individual voltage........ what do you think??.

2ndly, the method you stated above seems to go a step further than the aliexpress HA02 seller method i posted earlier, whatdayathink??

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I have a problem house 'well don't know whether I'll call it a problem' I have 340w x 4 solar panels on a 24v system with 2x luminous tubular batteries 220ah with a fangpusun 100/50 problem is my total watts in my house is about 450w[ps4 occasionally] minus the microwave and iron obviously for this I put the max charging current @ 30a but at that current I am not utilizing the full solar panel watts. Is there a way to leave it @50 and then somehow get a device to limit charging current at 25a also sometimes if there is available utility the inverter and the charge controller gives a combined charge current of about 38a which is dangerous. And utility is necessary to power the old split unit and for charging @ night......what to do?

Namzy:
I have a problem house 'well don't know whether I'll call it a problem' I have 340w x 4 solar panels on a 24v system with 2x luminous tubular batteries 220ah with a fangpusun 100/50 problem is my total watts in my house is about 450w[ps4 occasionally] minus the microwave and iron obviously for this I put the max charging current @ 30a but at that current I am not utilizing the full solar panel watts. Is there a way to leave it @50 and then somehow get a device to limit charging current at 25a also sometimes if there is available utility the inverter and the charge controller gives a combined charge current of about 38a which is dangerous. And utility is necessary to power the old split unit and for charging @ night......what to do?

if you dont need the extra amps (or pv watts) why bother about it? the cc is doing its job of regulating the amps to what you set it at, so why complicate things?

Meanwhile, you said 38A is dangerous for a 200ahr battery? is that particular with tubular batteries or all LA batteries?

Trippledots:


if you dont need the extra amps (or pv watts) why bother about it? the cc is doing its job of regulating the amps to what you set it at, so why complicate things?

Meanwhile, you said 38A is dangerous for a 200ahr battery? is that particular with tubular batteries or all LA batteries?

Recommended charging current for tubular batteries is 10% of capacity max 13%. Guess I oversized my solar array. I really want to know whether it can hit the max solar rating

Namzy:

Recommended charging current for tubular batteries is 10% of capacity max 13%. Guess I oversized my solar array. I really want to know whether it can hit the max solar rating

Your controller will not send 50amps, to the batteries, even if it's available..

To fully utilize the Solar power, then disable Utility charge, You can survive without Utility, Occasionally you can enable Utility charging..

Dam5reey:


Your controller will not send 50amps, to the batteries, even if it's available..

To fully utilize the Solar power, then disable Utility charge, You can survive without Utility, Occasionally you can enable Utility charging..

OK thanks

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pls contact Ola on 09057285592

A 1.36Kw PV array is not oversized for a small 24v system with average 450w draw.

Your PV array at 100% capacity will output between 45 to 50amps - in real life you can expect peak sustained output from your CC to be 80% of PV nameplate - between 36 and 42amps all things being equal and your installation optimally done.


If I take 40amps as the max your CC can squeeze out of this your current array, your 13% charge rate for your 200Ah bank is about 26amps leaving 14amps (400w) to service your loads.

All in all you seem to be in perfect position and should not worry at all. Further, you should need very little utility charging in your scenario - you could throttle your inverter charging current to the barest minimum or put the grid on a timer e.g charge from utility only if available between 6pm and 6am.

It appears you have a Fangpusun CC? That nifty bad boy has a current limiting feature built in - if you are really paranoid you could throttle CC output amps to like 35amps max and simultaneously set your inverter to the lowest charging current it can do.

The honest truth is that your Flooded batteries can tolerate +/- amps above the max charge rate - what you are trying to prevent is internal overheating and thermal runaway with too fast of a charge - this is only a danger during the bulk charge phase and especially if your batteries were deeply depleted beforehand - once you make it to absorb charge phase both CC and inverter will automatically limit current into the battery bank.

In summary, you really have no cause for alarm with your current setup, if you must adjust anything, reduce your inverter charging current to the barest minimum and/or implement a timer and relay/contactor arrangement such that grid charging only happens during zero-sun hours. As a last resort throttle your CC output but your current array is just right for your loads you stated.

For your next upgrade, ditch flooded and choose AGM or Lithium if you have confidence in that tech. this way you can focus on enjoying your renewable energy investment and not worry about putting too many amps into your battery bank.

Namzy:
I have a problem house 'well don't know whether I'll call it a problem' I have 340w x 4 solar panels on a 24v system with 2x luminous tubular batteries 220ah with a fangpusun 100/50 problem is my total watts in my house is about 450w[ps4 occasionally] minus the microwave and iron obviously for this I put the max charging current @ 30a but at that current I am not utilizing the full solar panel watts. Is there a way to leave it @50 and then somehow get a device to limit charging current at 25a also sometimes if there is available utility the inverter and the charge controller gives a combined charge current of about 38a which is dangerous. And utility is necessary to power the old split unit and for charging @ night......what to do?

Your array is not oversized at 1.36kw relative to a load of 450w.

If you want to know your panels peak production, you can target a day between 12pm and 2pm with good weather, bright sun and clear skies - just disconnect the grid and put on a large load e.g AC or heater or microwave (make sure inverter can handle the load) within that window of time when conditions are optimal - all things being equal your CC should ramp up output to panel peak.

Do not expect to see more than 80-85% of advertised nameplate on a sustained basis.

Namzy:

Recommended charging current for tubular batteries is 10% of capacity max 13%. Guess I oversized my solar array. I really want to know whether it can hit the max solar rating

NiyiOmoIyunade:
A 1.36Kw PV array is not oversized for a small 24v system with average 450w draw.

Your PV array at 100% capacity will output between 45 to 50amps - in real life you can expect peak sustained output from your CC to be 80% of PV nameplate - between 36 and 42amps all things being equal and your installation optimally done.


If I take 40amps as the max your CC can squeeze out of this your current array, your 13% charge rate for your 200Ah bank is about 26amps leaving 14amps (400w) to service your loads.

All in all you seem to be in perfect position and should not worry at all. Further, you should need very little utility charging in your scenario - you could throttle your inverter charging current to the barest minimum or put the grid on a timer e.g charge from utility only if available between 6pm and 6am.

It appears you have a Fangpusun CC? That nifty bad boy has a current limiting feature built in - if you are really paranoid you could throttle CC output amps to like 35amps max and simultaneously set your inverter to the lowest charging current it can do.

The honest truth is that your Flooded batteries can tolerate +/- amps above the max charge rate - what you are trying to prevent is internal overheating and thermal runaway with too fast of a charge - this is only a danger during the bulk charge phase and especially if your batteries were deeply depleted beforehand - once you make it to absorb charge phase both CC and inverter will automatically limit current into the battery bank.

In summary, you really have no cause for alarm with your current setup, if you must adjust anything, reduce your inverter charging current to the barest minimum and/or implement a timer and relay/contactor arrangement such that grid charging only happens during zero-sun hours. As a last resort throttle your CC output but your current array is just right for your loads you stated.

For your next upgrade, ditch flooded and choose AGM or Lithium if you have confidence in that tech. this way you can focus on enjoying your renewable energy investment and not worry about putting too many amps into your battery bank.

Thanks for the detailed explanation

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