An encounter between Nabi Musa (as) and the Angel of Death, and a comparison between Shia and Sunni hadiths on the issue.

From Shi'i Narration
I (the narrator) said to Imam Sadiq (as), tell me about the death of Musa bin Imran (as), so he (as) said:


“When his time had come, and it was expired, he was cut off from eating and the Angel of Death came, so he said: “Peace be upon you, oh Kaleemullah (speaker of/
with Allah)”


So Musa said: “And peace be upon you, who are you?


So he said: “I am the Angel of Death”


So he replied: “Why have you come?”


He said: “I came to take your soul”,


So Musa (as) replied: “From where will you take my soul?


He said: “From your mouth”


So Musa (as) replied: “And how (will you take it from my mouth) when I have spoken to my Lord the Glorified with it?”


So he said: “So then from you hands”


So he replied: “How, when I have carried the Torah with them?”


So he said: “Then from your legs”


So he replied: “How, when I climbed up Mount Sinai with them?”


So he said: “Then from your eyes!”


He replied: “How, when I look towards Allah in farfetched hopes with them?!”


So he said: “Then from your ears!!”


He replied: “How, when I have heard the words of my Lord Glorified and Majestic is He!”


So the narrator said: “So Allah (swt) (with inspiration) told the Angel of Death “do not take his soul, until he desires it to be taken”


So the Angel of Death left, so Musa remained (alive) until Allah desired him to be alive, and he called upon Yoosha bin Nun (as), and he gave successorship to him. And he ordered him to guard his role, and ordered to also later name a successor to guard his role.


Musa (as) went into occultation from his people, so while in occultation he passed a man while he was digging a grave, so he said to him: “Can I observe you with digging this grave?” so the man said: “Yes”, So observed until the grave was dug to its completion, then Musa bin Imran (as) lied down in it to see how it felt – so the veils where lifted so he saw his place in Heaven – so he said: “Oh Lord, take me to You!”


So the Angel of Death took his soul and buried him in the grave, and put the dirt upon him – And the man that was digging the grave was an Angel shaped in the form
of a Human, and that was in the wilderness. Then a caller gave a great call to the Heavens: “Musa, Kaleemullah, has
died! And which person does not die?”


(the narrator added) A man asked the Messenger of Allah (sawa) about the whereabouts of the grave of Musa (as), so
he (sawa) said: “It is on a great path, next to a red sand dune.”

From Sunni Narration

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The angel of death was sent to Moses and when he went to him, Moses slapped him severely, spoiling one of his eyes.

The angel went back to his Lord, and said, “You sent me to a slave who does not want to die.” Allah restored his eye and said, “Go back and tell him (i.e. Moses) to place his hand over the back of an ox, for he will be allowed to live for a number of years equal to the number of hairs coming
under his hand.” (So the angel came to him and told him the same). Then Moses asked, “O my Lord! What will be then?” He said, “Death will be then.” He said, “(Let it be) now.” He asked Allah that He bring him near the Sacred Land at a distance of a stone’s throw. Allah’s Messenger
( s ) said, “Were I there I would show you the grave of Moses by the way near the red sand hill.”


Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1339
In-book reference: Book 23, Hadith 95
USC-MSA web (English) reference: Vol. 2, Book
23, Hadith 423
(deprecated numbering scheme)
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/60/80

This Sunni's appears to be in conflict with what I heard and read or it is not comprehensive enough.

You might have just posted partial or isolated hadith from the sunni side. It is more than this. However, from what have heard and read, there seems to be striking resemblance about grave digging stuff. It was said that Nabi musa(as) helped a man who was digging ground but having problem cutting off a tough roof. So nabi musa helped him to pull the "cord" (root) not knowing he was actually pulling his own soul until it pulled out and musa fell and died. Prior to this however he had encountered Angel of death who were unble to take his soul. So Allah uses other means

Will look for and post video and text when I'm chanced.

Empiree:
This Sunni's appears to be in conflict with what I heard and read or it is not comprehensive enough.

You might have just posted partial or isolated hadith from the sunni side. It is more than this. However, from what have heard and read, there seems to be striking resemblance about grave digging stuff. It was said that Nabi musa(as) helped a man who was digging ground but having problem cutting off a tough roof. So nabi musa helped him to pull the "cord" (root) not knowing he was actually pulling his own soul until it pulled out and musa fell and died. Prior to this however he had encountered Angel of death who were unble to take his soul. So Allah uses other means

Will look for and post video and text when I'm chanced.

# Well, story is easier to quote or talk about than to prove its authenticity. If the story you are talking about is proven to be "sahih", the philosophical question however is why would Allah tricked Musa in "pulling is own soul"?


# You are not far from the report of sahih Bukhari @underlined.

Que: Why would Musa assault an angel from his Lord to the extent of damaging one of his eyes? That's not a quality of a pious person, a friend of God, especially a Nabi, and especially, one of the best Nabi.

AlBaqir:



Que: Why would Musa assault an angel from his Lord to the extent of damaging one of his eyes? That's not a quality of a pious person, a friend of God, especially a Nabi, and especially, one of the best Nabi.

This must be exaggeration or perhaps, "ASAWO" from Israeliya version of the story.

And Allah did not trick him. It is like the issue of khidr(as) when he thought Khidr's actions were bad but in reality, they were for the best.

Empiree:
This must be exaggeration or perhaps, "ASAWO" from Israeliya version of the story.

And Allah did not trick him. It is the like the issue of khidr(as) when he thought Khidr's actions were bad but in reality, they were for the best.

# Please don't try to match two different things together. The two stories are FAR FAR away from each other. And not especially when we have two contradictory ahadith on the issue with different moral and philosophical lessons.

`

AlBaqir:


# Please don't try to match two different things together. The two stories are FAR FAR away from each other. And not especially when we have two contradictory ahadith on the issue with different moral and philosophical lessons.

As i said before, the hadith you quoted appears to be an isolated one. It doesnt appear conclusive. Until i can find the whole thing, i have to defend what is it now

In Ahmad ibn Hanbal and at-Tabarani we find the hadith that “the angel of death used to come to people in a visible form. When he went to Musa (alaihis salam), Musa put out his eye.” Ibn Khuzayma said: “Some of the heretics refuse to acknowledge this and say that if Musa recognized him then how did he not take him seriously? If he did not recognize him then would he not have retaliation from him for putting out his eye? The answer is that Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) did not send the Angel of Death to Musa desiring to take his soul at that moment, He sent him to him to test him. Musa punched the Angel of Death because he thought that he was a human who had entered his house without his permission and did not know that he was the Angel of Death. The Shariah allows for the putting out of the eye of anyone who looks into a Muslim’s house without permission. The angels came to Ibrahim (AS) and Lut (AS) in human form and they also did not recognize them at first. If Ibrahim (AS) had recognized them he would not have offered them food. If Lut (AS) had recognized them he would not have feared for them from his people.”

Another one of the people of knowledge said: “He hit him because he came to take his soul before giving him a choice since it is established that no prophet is taken without being given a choice. This is why, when he gave him a choice the second time, he submitted.”

From this hadith we learn that angels can take on human form. We also see that prophets do not cling to the life of this world. They know that the real life is the life of the Hereafter and though the time of death may be painful, since it must be gone through, they’d rather be done with it. Postponing something painful doesn't make it less painful, rather, only makes one live in dread.

Rashduct4luv:
In Ahmad ibn Hanbal and at-Tabarani we find the hadith that “the angel of death used to come to people in a visible form. When he went to Musa (alaihis salam), Musa put out his eye.” Ibn Khuzayma said: “Some of the heretics refuse to acknowledge this and say that if Musa recognized him then how did he not take him seriously? If he did not recognize him then would he not have retaliation from him for putting out his eye? The answer is that Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) did not send the Angel of Death to Musa desiring to take his soul at that moment, He sent him to him to test him. Musa punched the Angel of Death because he thought that he was a human who had entered his house without his permission and did not know that he was the Angel of Death. The Shariah allows for the putting out of the eye of anyone who looks into a Muslim’s house without permission. The angels came to Ibrahim (AS) and Lut (AS) in human form and they also did not recognize them at first. If Ibrahim (AS) had recognized them he would not have offered them food. If Lut (AS) had recognized them he would not have feared for them from his people.”

Another one of the people of knowledge said: “He hit him because he came to take his soul before giving him a choice since it is established that no prophet is taken without being given a choice. This is why, when he gave him a choice the second time, he submitted.”

From this hadith we learn that angels can take on human form. We also see that prophets do not cling to the life of this world. They know that the real life is the life of the Hereafter and though the time of death may be painful, since it must be gone through, they’d rather be done with it. Postponing something painful doesn't make it less painful, rather, only makes one live in dread.

# Sorry, you have add more fuel to the fire.


# First, where's Ibn Khuzayma's reference that:

1. The angel went to Musa in human form and that Musa thought he was a thief that broke into his house?


2. Where's Ibn Khuzayma's reference that the angel of death only went to test Musa and not to kill him, according to his Lord command?

In fact, the hadith in Sahih Bukhari clearly stated the intentions of the angel which no doubt was his Lord's command. The hadith reads:

"The angel went back to his Lord, and said, “You sent me to a slave who does not want to die.”


3. Where's Ibn Khuzayma's reference according to the sharia that if a thief/person burgled into a Muslim's house without permission, one of his eyes must be gauged out?

# And with what? Fist (blow), knives or fork?

4. Angels in human form also " burgled" into the house of Nabi Dawud according to Quran, he never guaged out their eyes. Musa's alleged assault shows nothing but a rogued individual. Astaghfirullah for that silly attributes to one of the best servants of Allah in Taqwa, righteousness etc.

1. You have the evidence already for this in the report up there i.e. The angels came to Ibrahim (AS) and Lut (AS) in human form and they also did not recognize them at first. If Ibrahim (AS) had recognized them he would not have offered them food. If Lut (AS) had recognized them he would not have feared for them from his people.

2. Allah says:
“when their term is reached, neither can they delay it nor can they advance it an hour (or a moment)”

[al-A‘raaf 7:34; an-Nahl 16:61]

“And no person can ever die except by Allah’s Leave and at an appointed term”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:145].

In Saheeh Muslim it is narrated that ‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ood (may Allah be pleased with him) said: Umm Habeebah, the wife of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him and may Allah be pleased with her) said: O Allah, allow me to enjoy the company of my husband the Messenger of Allah, my father Abu Sufyaan and my brother Mu‘aawiyah. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “You have asked Allah concerning lifespans that are already set, days the number of which is already predetermined, and provisions that are already ordained. Nothing will ever be brought forward before its time and nothing will ever be delayed from its time. If you had asked Allah to grant you refuge from punishment in the Fire and punishment in the grave, that would have been better.”

3.
According to a hadeeth narrated from Abu Hurayrah, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man were to look into your private affairs without your permission, and you were to throw a pebble at him and put out his eye, there would be no sin on you.” Al-Bukhaari, 6902; Muslim, 2158. Ibn Hajar said, commenting on this hadeeth: It is narrated by Muslim with a different isnaad from Abu Hurayrah: “Whoever looks into some people’s house without their permission, it is permissible for them to put out his eye.” And it was narrated with yet another isnaad from Abu Hurayrah in a version that states it even more clearly; this is narrated by Ahmad, Ibn Abi ‘Aasim and al-Nasaa’i, and classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan and al-Bayhaqi. This version says: “Whoever looks into some people’s house without their permission, and they put his eye out, there is no diyah (blood money) and no qisaas (retaliatory punishment).” And according to one report through this isnaad, “… and it is worthless.”

4. You can give the reference for this your question in the Qur'an. Moreover, if an unknown man were to appear in your house like in this situation, what would you have done? Pat him in the back, kiss him on the forehead or what?

You are obviously moving far far away from the questions raised. Kindly look upon those questions once again and answer appropriately. Thanks

Rashduct4luv:
1. You have the evidence already for this in the report up there i.e. The angels came to Ibrahim (AS) and Lut (AS) in human form and they also did not recognize them at first. If Ibrahim (AS) had recognized them he would not have offered them food. If Lut (AS) had recognized them he would not have feared for them from his people.

# You or Ibn Khuzayma's theory and analogy does not work at all. You are trying to prove two things here:

1. That angel of death came to Musa in form of human being just like angels (not of death) appeared to Ibrahim and Lut.

2. That angel of death that went to Musa burgled into his house.

My responds:

# As per Nabi Ibrahim, the angels that came in human form knocked and salama via the front door. Ibrahim welcome them and etc....

# As per Nabi Lut, sura Ankabut: 28 - 33 clearly clarify that he knew the angels were coming to destroyed his people. In fact it was his request from his Lord. And before those angels even went, they appeared to Ibrahim and declared their intentions. Then, they met Nabi Lut too and declared their intentions. However, Qur'an never said those angels burgled into Lut's house

So there is no analogy here.

# What might seem to be the best analogy would have been the story of Nabi Dawud and the two litigants.

# Nabi Dawud entered his house and met two litigants. Quran did not said those angels in human form burgled into Dawud's house and he did not think of them as burglers. He did not attack them rather he was scared, listened to them and attended to their need.


Que: Our question stands:


1. Where's the prove of Ibn Khuzayma's theory that angel of death burgled into Musa's house? We have references for those three incidents. Where's that of Musa?

2. Ibn Khuzayma's theory goes further that angel of death was sent to test Musa and not to kill him. Why was Sahih Bukhari claimed that the angel complained to his Lord, "[b]Why did you sent me to a slave who did not want to DIE/b]"?

Did Allah hide the intentions from angel of death? If yes, what's the evidence altogether?

Rashduct4luv:

2. Allah says:
“when their term is reached, neither can they delay it nor can they advance it an hour (or a moment)”

[al-A‘raaf 7:34; an-Nahl 16:61]

“And no person can ever die except by Allah’s Leave and at an appointed term”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:145].

In Saheeh Muslim it is narrated that ‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ood (may Allah be pleased with him) said: Umm Habeebah, the wife of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him and may Allah be pleased with her) said: O Allah, allow me to enjoy the company of my husband the Messenger of Allah, my father Abu Sufyaan and my brother Mu‘aawiyah. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “You have asked Allah concerning lifespans that are already set, days the number of which is already predetermined, and provisions that are already ordained. Nothing will ever be brought forward before its time and nothing will ever be delayed from its time. If you had asked Allah to grant you refuge from punishment in the Fire and punishment in the grave, that would have been better.”

# I did not deny this. In short what you or Ibn Khuzayma's theory/analogy want to prove is that Musa's time of death is not yet arrived, and that angel of death only come to test him. This is 100% in contradiction to the statement attributed to the angel of death in front of his Lord, as stated in question 2 above.

Rashduct4luv:
3.
According to a hadeeth narrated from Abu Hurayrah, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man were to look into your private affairs without your permission, and you were to throw a pebble at him and put out his eye, there would be no sin on you.” Al-Bukhaari, 6902; Muslim, 2158. Ibn Hajar said, commenting on this hadeeth: It is narrated by Muslim with a different isnaad from Abu Hurayrah: “Whoever looks into some people’s house without their permission, it is permissible for them to put out his eye.” And it was narrated with yet another isnaad from Abu Hurayrah in a version that states it even more clearly; this is narrated by Ahmad, Ibn Abi ‘Aasim and al-Nasaa’i, and classed as saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan and al-Bayhaqi. This version says: “Whoever looks into some people’s house without their permission, and they put his eye out, there is no diyah (blood money) and no qisaas (retaliatory punishment).” And according to one report through this isnaad, “… and it is worthless.”

# Here's the report of Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Abul Qasim said, "If any person peeps at you without your
permission and you poke him with a stick and injure his eye, you will not be blamed."

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6902
In-book reference : Book 87, Hadith 41
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 83, Hadith 39



# Here's that of Sahih Muslim:

Abu Huraira reported having heard Allah's Messenger (s) say:

He who peeped into the house of people without their
consent, it is permissible for them to put out his eyes."

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2158 a
In-book reference : Book 38, Hadith 57
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 25, Hadith 5370


# Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (s ) as saying:

If a person were to cast a glance in your (house) without
permission, and you had in your hand a staff and you would have thrust that in his eyes, there is no harm for you..

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2158 b
In-book reference : Book 38, Hadith 58
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 25, Hadith 5371
(deprecated numbering scheme)


1. While there is a swing between "Injure his eye(s)", " you would have thrust staff in his eyes" and "put out his eyes" on someone who PEEPS into another person's house., the hadith claimed that Nabi Musa slapped or blow with fist the eyes of angel of death. Unfortunately, Ibn Khuzayma's theory (without prove) was that the angel burgled into Musa's house and not PEEP. Entering/burgling into house is different from peeping via a hole/window of a house (as another hadith in sahih Muslim claim).

AlBaqir:


4. Angels in human form also " burgled" into the house of Nabi Dawud according to Quran, he never guaged out their eyes. Musa's alleged assault shows nothing but a rogued individual. Astaghfirullah for that silly attributes to one of the best servants of Allah in Taqwa, righteousness etc.

#Its like you derive joy in discrediting SUNNI sources. Is here Q7:150 Q20:94 where MUSA assaulted a fellow RASUL knowing fully well hes a MA‘SUM & therefore beyond reproach also an act of roguery ? This is Quran & not SUNNI hadith!

#No amount of TAQWA will strip any human of his humanity. Or is there anywhere in the Quran where God knocked MUSA for that act ?

Rashduct4luv:
4. You can give the reference for this your question in the Qur'an. Moreover, if an unknown man were to appear in your house like in this situation, what would you have done? Pat him in the back, kiss him on the forehead or what?

# This is not about me. It is about one of the best Prophets of Allah, Musa Ibn Imran (as). Now look at the tone of the hadith as reported by sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The angel of death was sent to Moses and when he went to him, Moses slapped him severely, spoiling one of his eyes.


# Does that sound like the "angle of death burgled and broke into Musa's house without Musa's knowledge" as Ibn Khuzayma's theory claimed?

This alone is enough to destroy the polemic theory of Ibn Khuzayma's submissions.

1. The analogy works in so far as Ibn Khuzymah used an authentic hadith to interpret another authentic hadith which i have quoted and you never faulted. He never used his opinion to do this! Except you can bring your own Shi'i explanation from your scholars.

2. As i quoted before from the evidence from the Qur'an, Allah kills at the prescribed time he has willed. So, He wasn't ready to kill Musa alayhi salam at that first time. And his analogy is correct again.

Also, you can never say because an angel related with a Prophet this way, he can't relate with another in another way! Angel of death is an angel! And it is proven angels appear to Prophets in Human form. I rest here.

And Allah knows best.

ikupakuti:


#Its like you derive joy in discrediting SUNNI sources. Is here Q7:150 Q20:94 where MUSA assaulted a fellow RASUL knowing fully well hes a MA‘SUM & therefore beyond reproach also an act of roguery ? This is Quran & not SUNNI hadith!

#No amount of TAQWA will strip any human of his humanity. Or is there anywhere in the Quran where God knocked MUSA for that act ?

# Anything that look out of place whether Sunni or Shia, I criticised. Do you wanna look at my criticism of Shi'i hadiths?

# As per the above ayah. You call that rogue without even look for an obvious excuse for Nabi Musa?

1. In the above two verses, Nabi Musa have every right to scold his brother Nabi Harun, who was left as his successor, a guide over his people. Imagine, under his watch, the entire Nation went into polytheism! Polytheism! Polytheism!!, an unforgivable sin before Allah. If the entire nation went into polytheism after they have believed, then whats Musa's happiness? This was the thoughts our Mufassir derived for Nabi Musa. And he only grabbed Nabi Harun by his beard NOT Boxed or slapped severely him till eye popped out


2. On the other hand in this case under discussion, an angel was SENT to Musa, and the angel WENT to him, Musa allegedly slapped him severely and guaged out his eye. This is what I called assault and being rogue.

Rashduct4luv:
1. The analogy works in so far as Ibn Khuzymah used an authentic hadith to interpret another authentic hadith which i have quoted and you never faulted. He never used his opinion to do this! Except you can bring your own Shi'i explanation from your scholars.

2. As i quoted before from the evidence from the Qur'an, Allah kills at the prescribed time he has willed. So, He wasn't ready to kill Musa alayhi salam at that first time. And his analogy is correct again.

Also, you can never say because an angel related with a Prophet this way, he can't relate with another in another way! Angel of death is an angel! And it is proven angels appear to Prophets in Human form. I rest here.

And Allah knows best.

For Allah's sake, you keep on leaving the main issues and repeating what there is no argument. I only agreed for the sake of argument that:

1. the angel came in human form

2. If someone's time is not arrived, you cannot die.


# Analogies of Nabi Ibrahim and Lut was far different from that of Musa as I have explained. Besides, the hadith clearly says in the case of Musa:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The angel of death was sent to Moses and when he went to him, Moses slapped him severely, spoiling one of his eyes.

# Where's Ibn Khuzayma's analogy here that angel of death burgled into Musa's house?


# Ibn Khuzayma's theory was that the angel only came to test Musa and not killed. He made analogy with Quran that a soul can only be taken at his due time. Fine. Why did angel of death told his Lord, "You sent me to a servant that doesn't want to DIE"?

* Did Allah hide His intention from the angel or the angel failed in his responsibility by changing " test to kill"?

Where's evidence?

From 22 to 28mins. Everything he said is the same as recorded in both "SuShi" sources. About Nabi Musa(as) helping a man digging the ground, he gave a little more insightful tafsir on that. Make i just break that down. This happened after series of arguments with "Angel of death".


So Musa came about three people. One is digging the ground. One is shrouding someone that appears dead for burial and the third is dragging itakun(root) found in the grave. Both "men" could not remove the itakun. So Musa(as) decided to help them. With one hand he pulled the root and cut it out. Unfortunately the root happened to be holding his soul. So Nabi Musa(as) fell and died.

Ironically, all three "people" i:e the man shrouding the dead, the one digging the grave and the man dragging the root are all angels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SR7IZHk20E


Some info can be found here

https://www.al-islam.org/kamaaluddin-wa-tamaamun-nima-vol-1-shaykh-saduq/chapter-7-account-death-prophet-musa-occultation

Empiree:
From 22 to 28mins. Everything he said is the same as recorded in both "SuShi" sources. About Nabi Musa(as) helping a man digging the ground, he gave a little more insightful tafsir on that. Make i just break that down. This happened after series of arguments with "Angel of death".


So Musa came about three people. One is digging the ground. One is shrouding someone that appears dead for burial and the third is dragging itakun(root) found in the grave. Both "men" could not remove the itakun. So Musa(as) decided to help them. With one hand he pulled the root and cut it out. Unfortunately the root happened to be holding his soul. So Nabi Musa(as) fell and died.

Ironically, all three "people" i:e the man shrouding the dead, the one digging the grave and the man dragging the root are all angels.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SR7IZHk20E

# Like I said earlier where's the Sunni authentic source of the above story especially the italic part

# This is different from the account of Sahih Bukhari altogether.

Empiree:

Some info can be found here

https://www.al-islam.org/kamaaluddin-wa-tamaamun-nima-vol-1-shaykh-saduq/chapter-7-account-death-prophet-musa-occultation

This is from Shia source as I have already quoted at the OP. The story here never affirmed:

# Argument between Musa and angel of death

# No severe slap or box till eye popped up

# Three men vis-a-vis angels (rather one man in the shia report)

AlBaqir:


This is from Shia source as I have already quoted at the OP. The story here never affirmed:

# Argument between Musa and angel of death

# No severe slap or box till eye popped up

# Three men vis-a-vis angels (rather one man in the shia report)

Since you believe interrogations transpired btw nabi Musa(as) and malaika iku, technically this is some "arguments" going on btw them literally just by really the text. I dont know about beating the pop of the angel. I have said earlier it could have been "israeliya" narration that crept into the story. But we all can agree that even the it happened, the Angel was definitely not in his true form. The same happened to nabi Ibrahim(as). The angel came in form of old man. After his transition, the old man met and asked him if he recognise him(old man)?.

About three men vis-a-vis angels , shia's narration might simply gave their version of the story

Empiree:
Since you believe interrogations transpired btw nabi Musa(as) and malaika iku, technically this is some "arguments" going on btw them literally just by really the text. I dont know about beating the pop of the angel. I have said earlier it could have been "israeliya" narration that crept into the story. But we all can agree that even the it happened, the Angel was definitely not in his true form. The same happened to nabi Ibrahim(as). The angel came in form of old man. After his transition, the old man met and asked him if he recognise him(old man)?.

About three men vis-a-vis angels , shia's narration might simply gave their version of the story

# Anyway, that's your own opinion, which I respect, however several Sunni (as you have seen already on this thread) will rather defend the version of sahih Bukhari and Muslim than welcoming "unsourced" story of that sheik (even if it is referenced and found to be authentic).

# And they will be like "what?" when you say perhaps its "Israeliyah" crept into it.

AlBaqir:


# As per the above ayah. You call that rogue without even look for an obvious excuse for Nabi Musa?

1. In the above two verses, Nabi Musa have every right to scold his brother Nabi Harun, who was left as his successor, a guide over his people. Imagine, under his watch, the entire Nation went into polytheism! Polytheism! Polytheism!!, an unforgivable sin before Allah. If the entire nation went into polytheism after they have believed, then whats Musa's happiness? This was the thoughts our Mufassir derived for Nabi Musa. And he only grabbed Nabi Harun by his beard NOT Boxed or slapped severely him till eye popped out

An excuse?! This is someone God already briefed that SAMRIYY was responsible, that the people obliged him willingly Q20:85 & 87 while God also exonerated HARUN in Q20:90, So, what other excuse does he have for assaulting a MA‘SUM other than his temperamental tendencies which are no fault of his ? Besides, you do not need to downplay it, you dont scold people by pulling them by the beards & head. HARUN had to re-explain himself after God did before MUSA came back to his senses or else it would have been another tragedy going by his record.

2. On the other hand in this case under discussion, an angel was SENT to Musa, and the angel WENT to him, Musa allegedly slapped him severely and guaged out his eye. This is what I called assault and being rogue.

#I dont see anything outlandish here in respect to kind of person MUSA is. A single upper-cut of his sent an egyptian to the great beyond Q28:15 So, no be today.

AlBaqir:


# Anyway, that's your own opinion, which I respect, however several Sunni (as you have seen already on this thread) will rather defend the version of sahih Bukhari and Muslim than welcoming "unsourced" story of that sheik (even if it is referenced and found to be authentic).
.

it is not properly sourced either as I would loved it to be

ikupakuti:


An excuse?! This is someone God already briefed that SAMRIYY was responsible, that the people obliged him willingly Q20:85 & 87 while God also exonerated HARUN in Q20:90, So, what other excuse does he have for assaulting a MA‘SUM other than his temperamental tendencies which are no fault of his ? Besides, you do not need to downplay it, you dont scold people by pulling them by the beards & head. HARUN had to re-explain himself after God did before MUSA came back to his senses or else it would have been another tragedy going by his record.

# Okay you want Nabi Musa to feel relaxed after Allah has revealed to him that his people have been tested in his absence? What kind of thinking is that?

1. Nabi Yaqub (as) was assured by Allah that he will see his son, Yusuf back yet he continue crying until he lost his eyes sight. Should he have relaxed?

2. Nabi Muhammad was told Allah has "forgiven" all his "sins", yet he persisted in worship till his two feet swollen. Should he have relaxed?

Obviously, you don't understand how a prophets of Allah usually take their responsibilities.

# Trial is one thing heavier in the heart of those who knew its spiritual implications. If a trial is thrown to a believer, or a nation, its about "are you gonna fail and doomed or pass and succeed". Nation of Musa was failing, and falling into the pit of eternal damnation.

After Nabi Musa was informed, he knew its implications, went back angrily, pulled the beard and head of Nabi Harun and asked:

Surah Taha, Verse 92:

(Musa) said: O Haroun! what prevented you, when you saw them going astray

You expect him to hug his brother?

# Here's a perfect description of Nabi Musa in the Qur'an:

Surah Maryam, Verse 51:

And mention Musa in the Book; surely he was one purified (mukhlas), and he was an apostle, a prophet.

# A prophet who was a Mukhlas will never ever joke with polytheism (Kufr).

ikupakuti:

#I dont see anything outlandish here in respect to kind of person MUSA is. A single upper-cut of his sent an egyptian to the great beyond Q28:15 So, no be today.

# First, Nabi Musa never ever intended to hit the man.

# Besides, the ability of Nabi Musa to kill with a fist is not what is under discussion here. The quality of a rogue and a taut used to described him is what am concerned of.

# Just how exactly does it sound that an angel was sent to him, and the angel met him, and he boxed him till he popped his eyes off?

@albaqir

You getting it wrong!

#MUSA is ill-tempered & that is obvious from his stories in the QURAN, displaying his natural tendecies is not an issue, thats why God never knocked him or discuss his short-comings in a negative light in the QURAN coz he‘s human.

# If he wasnt consumed by rage & wasnt thinking straight why did he have to attack HARUN & not SAMRYY or the people who apostated ? What did HARUN later told him that made him leave him that he (MUSA) isnt aware of before ? Now tell me the sense/rationale in attacking HARUN when he knew what happened already before coming back ? What did he achieve with that act ? what did that change ? Wait if the isrealites had revolted against MUSA himself & dared him what could he have done that he expected of HARUN ?

#NABI YA‘QUB: It only shows that hes human & thats what we talking about here, isnt it ? Or did he doubted God ? Or can you tell me the reason why he couldnt relax other than his longing for YUSUF ?

#NABI (saw)‘s matter that you inserted here is entirely different. Its a matter of SHUKR Q14:7 he decleared that by himself.

#Obedience of those people is not the responsibility of MUSA but theirs, so also is the trial & they chose to be tried & misled with their eyes wide open.

#IF MUSA couldnt hug HARUN for a job welldone he could as well ask him howfar in a civil manner without being violent. Someone like NABI ISA or NABI IBRAHIM would never have used such approach.

#Every NABI is a MUKHLAS including HARUN that he wanted to panel beat

#Their KUFR is not on him but on them & he cant help them unless they are willing.

#Where did you get the idea that he intended not to hit the egyptian ? Something he wanted to repeat the next day ? Did you listen to how his wouldbe second victim addressed him ?
إن تريد إﻻ أن تكون جبارا فى اﻻرض
Shey na nice reputation be that ?

#Nobody potrayed him a rogue, MUSA is temperamental & its all over the QURAN, his stories reaks of impatience, so saying he hit an angel is not ridiculous.

@albaqir and @ikupakuti am enjoying you people discussion so to say. Not only learning yet another pith in prophet Musa(as) anecdote, but also in the way of constructive, inductive and deductive analogy.

This is interesting let it keep rolling.

LadunaI:
@albaqir and @ikupakuti am enjoying you people discussion so to say. Not only learning yet another pith in prophet Musa(as) anecdote, but also in the way of constructive, inductive and deductive analogy.

This is interesting let it keep rolling.

You‘ve been scarce of late. You can join us

Empiree:
This must be exaggeration or perhaps, "ASAWO" from Israeliya version of the story.

And Allah did not trick him. It is like the issue of khidr(as) when he thought Khidr's actions were bad but in reality, they were for the best.

What is this "ASAWO" again? You and your conc Yoruba vocab, though I got your point.

Perhaps many DIVINE MERCY of ALLAH coloured in disguise would have been revealed to us had been Prophet Musa(as) exercise patient, and not been presumptuous in the presence of his "teacher".

ikupakuti:


You‘ve been scarce of late. You can join us

The Ogas should ride on we are following.