submit:


Newnas, pls reply this using The heading of the thread; You alone we worship, You alone we ask for help...


Cos I think there should be a difference between the way Christians pray and Muslims pray... or so I thought

please visit:

https://www.nairaland.com/3950793/seeking-closeness-lord#58898755

For what you seek.

However, in summary, the believer should call upon Allah alone seeking no partner with Him.
Allah answers the prayer of whoever He wills and whenever He wills.

Is it right for a Muslim to pray and say: in Jesus name?

We rebuke the Christians for this act and call it polytheism, but we find it hard to believe that saying in the name of Sheikh Lagbaja is polytheism and association of partners with Allah!

And there's no doubt that Jesus is more virtuoso and beloved to Allah than all the Sheikhs put together. Jesus is from the ulul azmi if you know the implication of that.

Coupled with the fact that many of these Sheikhs are criminals in the religion of Allah, neglecting Solah in congregation, have no regard for the boundary of Allah regarding women.

There's no eagerness to follow the sunnah in their statements and life. The only way of loving the Messenger of Allah alyhissolaat wassalaam to them is maolid.

The belittle the sunnah and: "sebi sunnah lasan ni" subhanaLLaah.

No doubt, people pool etc like this are not waliy of Allah.

May Allah grant us beneficial knowledge and save us from Shirk in every form of it.

Allah defines a waliy thus:

Surah Yunus, Verse 62:
أَلَا إِنَّ أَوْلِيَاءَ اللَّهِ لَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

No doubt! Verily, the Auliya' of Allah [i.e. those who believe in the Oneness of Allah and fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which he has forbidden), and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)], no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve,
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

Surah Yunus, Verse 63:
الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَكَانُوا يَتَّقُونَ

Those who believed (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism), and used to fear Allah much (by abstaining from evil deeds and sins and by doing righteous deeds).
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 185:

The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Quran, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadan i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Saum (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Saum (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allah intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allah [i.e. to say Takbir (Allahu-Akbar; Allah is the Most Great) on seeing the crescent of the months of Ramadan and Shawwal] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

I know a Sheikh like that, he starts his fast 10days before Ramadan and ends 10days before Ramadan ends! And they still call him a sheikh and still make him a tawassul to Allah.

Glorified be Allah.

AlBaqir:


# Yeah. Like I said am earnestly waiting for his reply on this. No doubt you are asking about Tawassul.


# To make things more clearer:

* Christian believe Jesus is God, Lord or 3 in 1 God. Therefore, they sometimes prayed to him directly with intention that he is HE. And sometimes they prayed to the Father via Jesus. This second part is "Tawassul". The first part is a clear Shrik (polytheism).

The second part is via Jesus tho tawassul but it is still shirk. Right?

AlBaqir:


* Muslim do not see Nabi or anybody as God other than Allah. And Muslim do not see anybody as independent of power.

I like the way Newnas replied in the other thread. Cos the main point is can the dead hear or talk? I know the verse that says the righteous aren't dead but does Allah(swt) approves we asking from them. Some few things we start doing then tends to shirk Cos we then depends(rely) on it

You know, I can liken this case to the Bible when king Saul had to enquire from a dead Prophet (Samuel) about the fate of a battle, tho he got his answer but it only added to his sin. In the words of Samuel,..."you are disturbing my sleep, this day tomorrow, you and your sons would come here and join me...."

Newnas:


I know a Sheikh like that, he starts his fast 10days before Ramadan and ends 10days before Ramadan ends! And they still call him a sheikh and still make him a tawassul to Allah.

Glorified be Allah.

# Ogbeni, you are only dodging the question. Nobody ask you to continue pouncing on your alleged "evil, sinful sheu".

# Treat the question: Tawassul. Can we use Nabi, other prophets, awliya Allah, Qur'an as wasila in our Dua?

submit:

The second part is via Jesus tho tawassul but it is still shirk. Right?

# There is nothing shrik in the second part.

submit:

I like the way Newnas replied in the other thread. Cos the main point is can the dead hear or talk? I know the verse that says the righteous aren't dead but does Allah(swt) approves we asking from them. Some few things we start doing then tends to shirk Cos we then depends(rely) on it

# First, Salafi whom Newnas represent do not have problem with Tawassul of the Prophet DURING his lifetime. There are overwhelming evidences in their books of ahadith where sahabah used the Prophet, in fact, by his very command, as wasila (means) to reach Allah in their supplications and they see instant result.


The idea here is Nabi occupied the highest status before Allah and he is the most beloved of His creature. Who am I? This dirty, stinky, sinful, worthless, lazy, etc human being. The more Allah wants me to get near Him, the more my sins pull me away from Him. Now I am desperate in need of His help. The fastest way to achieve that is via Tawassul.

Note: Quran command, "call upon Me, I will answer you", "Say, 'Allah or ar-Rahman, whichever name you use to call Him, it is good for He has the most beautiful names..."

This, Quran teaches calling unto Allah directly.

2. Qur'an equally command, "O you who believe, fear Allah, and seek the means to reach (wasila) Him..."

Here Quran talks about wasila.


# Second, AFTER the death of Nabi, can we continue using him as our mediator (wasila) in our Dua? All Muslims say YES except the Salafi. They argued that Nabi has died and cannot hear or reply back again.

* As you have rightly pointed to verses of the Quran: those who die in Allah's way are said to be ALIVE.

* There is an Hadith in sahih Bukhari where after the battle of Badr, Prophet went to address the corpses of the polytheists in the pit they were to be buried. Umar said to the Prophet, "you are talking to the dead, they cannot hear you". Rasul akram replied, " they see and hear more than you do except they are not given power to reply".

Imagine, those are corpses of polytheists. What about the Prophets of God, the friend of God? Quran is right that "they are alive" but Salafi claimed "they are dead and cannot hear and answer you".

# Salafi most recognised Tafsir of the Qur'an, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, recorded a grand breaking Hadith which unfortunately they have ceremoniously removed from the English version but it is still intact in the Arabic version.

* The narration of a Bedouin Arab (they concealed the name) who went to the grave of the Prophet, threw himself to it and said, "Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’

I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.”

* The narrator of this Hadith says, he slept and saw Nabi in his dreams and prophet told him, " tell the man that his prayer has been accepted"


# There many more ahadith, discussion of Sunni ulama to confirm and validate Tawassul after the demise of Nabi.


# Imagine, in every tashahhud you do during Salat, you say, "as-Salamu alayka Ayyu an-Nabi - Peace be unto you, Oh Prophet", are you talking to the dead who cannot hear or reply?


The issue has been debated in detailed on this thread:
www.nairaland.com/1995895/best-form-tawassul-intercession-using

Happy reading.

submit:

You know, I can liken this case to the Bible when king Sau had to enquire from a dead Prophet (Samuel) about the fate of a battle, tho he got his answer but it only added to his sin. In the words of Samuel,..."you are disturbing my sleep, this day tomorrow, you and your sons would come here and join me...."

# The fact is that most biblical characters, description and events are not accepted by the Qur'an. Only some vague ahadith support such. Prophets of God, by Qur'anic presentations always and always seek Allah's help and guidance in their work and decisions.

# Surah Al-Isra, Verse 57:

Those whom they call upon, themselves seek the means of access (wasila) to their Lord-- whoever of them is nearest-- and they hope for His mercy and fear His chastisement; surely the chastisement of your Lord is a thing to be cautious of"


# In sha Allah, I will post the said 5 hours debate.

# Empiree please if you can help in posting the video I will appreciate. I can't remember its title.

^^

You got it on the other thread

Empiree:
^^
You got it on the other thread

# Yeah, thanks.

Which other thread o

Aisha says: Pray at the Grave of the Prophet (sawa)?

A strong drought fell upon the people of Madina, so they sought council with Aisha.

She said: “Look towards the Grave of the Prophet (sawa) and use it like a window towards the Heavens, so it is as if between the Heavens and the Grave there is no roof
or barrier.

(The Narrator) said: They did this, and it rained such a rain that the grass grew, and the camels grew so fat that it seemed they would burst from their stomach – so they
named this year, the year of plenty.

Source : Musnad al-Daarami (known as Sunan al-Daarimi), Volume 1, Page 227, Page 93

Grading : The Muhaqiq of the book, Hussain Saleem Asad al-Daarani, says all of the narrators are reliable (see footnote 4 on the screenshot attached)

AlBaqir:
Aisha says: Pray at the Grave of the Prophet (sawa)?

A strong drought fell upon the people of Madina, so they sought council with Aisha.

She said: “Look towards the Grave of the Prophet (sawa) and use it like a window towards the Heavens, so it is as if between the Heavens and the Grave there is no roof
or barrier.

(The Narrator) said: They did this, and it rained such a rain that the grass grew, and the camels grew so fat that it seemed they would burst from their stomach – so they
named this year, the year of plenty.

Source : Musnad al-Daarami (known as Sunan al-Daarimi), Volume 1, Page 227, Page 93

Grading : The Muhaqiq of the book, Hussain Saleem Asad al-Daarani, says all of the narrators are reliable (see footnote 4 on the screenshot attached)

So: "all the narrators are reliable" is synonymous to authentic?! This 1 too weak me oooo

Albaqir, you can't cease to daze me with your ignorance.

Newnas:



So: "all the narrators are reliable" is synonymous to authentic?! This 1 too weak me oooo

Albaqir, you can't cease to daze me with your ignorance.

Thanks bro. for this thread. Pls can you elucidate further on the concept of TAWASUL?

It being gratifying reading your position on this issues and Albaqir own on the subject matter of this thread, even if there seem to exist seemingly "gulf" between you brothers view.Nonetheless, there is whole lot to learn from evidences put forth here by both of you.

Thanks.

Edit
Thanks, I wasn't aware before that you discussed this on this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/3950793/seeking-closeness-lord/1

AlBaqir:


# Ogbeni, you are only dodging the question. Nobody ask you to continue pouncing on your alleged "evil, sinful sheu".

# Treat the question: Tawassul. Can we use Nabi, other prophets, awliya Allah, Qur'an as wasila in our Dua?

Pls still shed more on Tawasul. I think using prophet as Tawasul even there life time does NOT constitute praying to them directly but to Allah thru their special position in Allah's sight.

However, I think more of Tawasul as that SPECIAL act of IBADAH one do to seek Allah's favour. Like seeking abundant Daroud for prophet(saw), being exceptional good to one's parents, et al.

In this regard, the issue of three travelers comes to mind in which they used their SPECIAL act of to beg Allah to ease their predicament after being trapped in the cave by heavy stone.

Thanks.

Edit
Thanks I found this thread, and seems answer my request

https://www.nairaland.com/3950793/seeking-closeness-lord/1

Empiree:
^^

You got it on the other thread

Pls can you provide the link here to that debate.

Thanks

LadunaI:


Pls can you provide the link here to that debate.

Thanks

You talking about this debate?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYRKuquV7_M

Albaqir opened the thread on it here. I have searched his profile but cant seem to find it. But this is the video. I have watched it already