. . . and this is the summary of this entire thread . . .

aletheia:

Proud swelling and arrogant words. I am waiting for mba_emeka to show up here to lend support to Jaffi and Joagbaje. So you are god. Interesting how we have come full cycle from the garden of Eden. You are of your father the devil who tempted Eve with this same words.

viaro:

But wait. .  not so fast, brother. I have one question: did you make the heavens and the earth, yes or no?

If your answer is no, you have no business claiming your 'divinity' - please go read Jeremiah 10:11 again.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:34-35 (KJV)

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet
Ex 7:1 (KJV) (moses was referred to as a god by God self him)

@Viaro, i have read your reference scipture, that was a message sent to the chaldeans concerning their idolatry. God was saying that both they and their worshippers will be destroyed; and idolatry shall finally be destroyed from the earth; and the heavens shall look no more on so great an abomination committed by them. SO LET THEM CALL THEMSELVES GODS, THEY ARE ONLY WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES!
THIS MESSAGE IS FROM ONE( A GOD)

maybe you should study more and with other translations and referenced bibles too

mabell:

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:34-35 (KJV)

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet
Ex 7:1 (KJV) (moses was referred to as a god by God self him)

@Viaro, i have read your reference scipture, that was a message sent to the chaldeans concerning their idolatry. God was saying that both they and their worshippers will be destroyed; and idolatry shall finally be destroyed from the earth; and the heavens shall look no more on so great an abomination committed by them. SO LET THEM CALL THEMSELVES GODS, THEY ARE ONLY WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES!
THIS MESSAGE IS FROM ONE( A GOD)

maybe you should study more and with other translations and referenced bibles too

I dont remember Paul or Peter running around strutting to be "gods" . . . even though they could perform miracles that none of you can ever achieve in 5000 yrs of fasting and prayers.

^^ You just took that right out of my mouth!

Faith simply means that you believe that you pray and believe that God can do it.

mabell:

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:34-35 (KJV)

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet
Ex 7:1 (KJV) (moses was referred to as a god by God self him)

@Viaro, i have read your reference scipture, that was a message sent to the chaldeans concerning their idolatry. God was saying that both they and their worshippers will be destroyed; and idolatry shall finally be destroyed from the earth; and the heavens shall look no more on so great an abomination committed by them. SO LET THEM CALL THEMSELVES GODS, THEY ARE ONLY WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES!
THIS MESSAGE IS FROM ONE( A GOD)

maybe you should study more and with other translations and referenced bibles too

@mabell,

Thank you so much for that highlight - I deeply appreciate it. Let me reassure you that I've tried to go through every reference in Scripture on this subject (I'm not laying claim of a super-scholarship); and I didn't ignore the Exodus 7:1 reference in my study - I could give you several more if you want, but I forebear.

Go back to Exodus 4:15-16, and you may then understand Ex. 7:1. In the former (ch. 4:16) we read: "and thou shalt be to him instead of God", which presents to us how God Himself gave the meaning of His calling Moses a 'god' in ch. 7:1.  In calling Moses a 'god', the LORD never meant that Moses was therefore deity or divinity, or even a supernatural being. Not a single translation of the Bible or study tools claim 'deity' for Moses. NOT ONE.

Exodus 7:1 does not teach the tenet of the WOF movement. When WOF proponents claim to be 'gods', they go so far as to claim to be just the same as God - that is, Deity and Divinvity. I guess that's where jaffi got his idea of "our place of divinity-gods".

However, rather than deity or divinity, Exodus 7:1 presents Moses as a representative under his Pancrator, the LORD, when the former stands in the presence of Pharoah. This 'representative' is in the capacity of what we today know as a vicegerent/viceroy or liege-lord. This representative in such a capacity is NOT a deity or divinity - not a single Bible translation or version argues otherwise. If you know any Bible translation that presents Moses as deity or divinity, please share with us (I'm very much in need of meat so I can get done with my Cow&Gate milk).

However, when we speak about these matters, our concerns are informed by WOF proponents teaching that there is no difference between them and God - in other words, they see themselves as Deity and/or Divinity. If that is what you think either Psalm 82 or John 10:34-35 was trying to teach us (that a Christian is a deity or divinity), could I ask you a personal question: how many Deities do you know in your own life as a Christian?

This is why Jeremiah 10:11 still stands: any Christian (WOF or others) claiming 'deity' or 'divinity' for himself or herself is playing with something worse than 'trouble'. I commend this to you in love.

^^^Well said.
There are similarities between WoF claims to divinity and certain Mormom beliefs.

There Is One God

A. One God: Explicit Statements
1. OT:

Deu 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him.

2Sa 22:32 "For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

2. NT:

John 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

Gal 3:20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

1Ti 1:17 To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

B. None like God (in His essence):
1. Explicit statements:

Exo 8:10 And he said, "Tomorrow." Moses said, "Be it as you say, so that you may know that there is no one like the LORD our God.

Isa 40:18 To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?

2. Being like God a Satanic lie:

Gen 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

3. Fallen man became "like God" only in that he took upon himself to know good and
evil, not that he acquired godhood: Gen. 3:22

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--"

C. Only one true God:

Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King.

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1Th 1:9 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,

D. All other "gods" are therefore false gods (idols), not gods at all:

Psa 96:4-5 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; he is to be feared above all gods. For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols, but the LORD made the heavens.

Isa 41:23 Tell us what is to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods; do good, or do harm, that we may be dismayed and terrified.

Jer 16:20 Can man make for himself gods? Such are not gods!"

Gal 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.

E. Demons, not gods, are the power behind false worship:

Deu 32:16-17 They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded.

F. How men are meant to be "like God"
1. The image of God indicates that man is to represent God and share His moral
character, not that man can be metaphysically like God: Gen. 1:26-27; 5:1; 1 Cor. 11:7;
Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10
2. The goals of being like Christ has the following aspects only:
a. Sharing His moral character: 1 John 3:2; Rom. 8:29
b. Being raised with glorified, immortal bodies like His: phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:49
3. Becoming partakers of the divine nature refers again to moral nature ("having escaped
the corruption that is in the world by lust", not metaphysical nature: 2 Pet. 1:4; see also
Heb. 12:10; on the meaning of "partakers," see 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 1:17; 1 Pet. 5:1

G, Conclusion: There is only one God, one true God, all other gods being false gods, neither men nor angels being gods, and none even like God by nature - all of which the Bible says repeatedly and explicitly - we must conclude that there is indeed only one God.

viaro:

@mabell,

Thank you so much for that highlight - I deeply appreciate it. Let me reassure you that I've tried to go through every reference in Scripture on this subject (I'm not laying claim of a super-scholarship); and I didn't ignore the Exodus 7:1 reference in my study - I could give you several more if you want, but I forebear.

Go back to Exodus 4:15-16, and you may then understand Ex. 7:1. In the former (ch. 4:16) we read: "and thou shalt be to him instead of God", which presents to us how God Himself gave the meaning of His calling Moses a 'god' in ch. 7:1.  In calling Moses a 'god', the LORD never meant that Moses was therefore deity or divinity, or even a supernatural being. Not a single translation of the Bible or study tools claim 'deity' for Moses. NOT ONE.

Exodus 7:1 does not teach the tenet of the WOF movement. When WOF proponents claim to be 'gods', they go so far as to claim to be just the same as God - that is, Deity and Divinvity. I guess that's where jaffi got his idea of "our place of divinity-gods".

However, rather than deity or divinity, Exodus 7:1 presents Moses as a representative under his Pancrator, the LORD, when the former stands in the presence of Pharoah. This 'representative' is in the capacity of what we today know as a vicegerent/viceroy or liege-lord. This representative in such a capacity is NOT a deity or divinity - not a single Bible translation or version argues otherwise. If you know any Bible translation that presents Moses as deity or divinity, please share with us (I'm very much in need of meat so I can get done with my Cow&Gate milk).

However, when we speak about these matters, our concerns are informed by WOF proponents teaching that there is no difference between them and God - in other words, they see themselves as Deity and/or Divinity. If that is what you think either Psalm 82 or John 10:34-35 was trying to teach us (that a Christian is a deity or divinity), could I ask you a personal question: how many Deities do you know in your own life as a Christian?

This is why Jeremiah 10:11 still stands: any Christian (WOF or others) claiming 'deity' or 'divinity' for himself or herself is playing with something worse than 'trouble'. I commend this to you in love.

Bros,

Can you divorce divinity from ''Partakers of divine nature''?, if yes, I rest my case

I'm thinking of opening a thread and ask the ''non-WOF'' (whatever WOF means to them) to preach about FAITH using the scriptures to back it up.

bros, Jaffi, fynguy, joagbaje and sis mabell

religousity hasnt changed much. people are still the same, the message we preach is not meant for the "know it alls" their experience counts more than anything to them. let them believe what they want to. i have always said that the greatest theologian i know is satan yet he is still a devil.

Jesus was never offended when anybody treated him as God almighty, we know the people who were: the pharisees, sadducees and the scribes.
They would always resort to name calling and its sort.

CAN THEY PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION FYNGUY PUT UP?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A PARTAKER OF THE DIVINE NATURE?

REMEMBER JOHN THE BELOVED WAS ALSO CALLED JOHN THE DIVINE, WAS GOD OFFENDED?

mba emeka:

bros, Jaffi, fynguy, joagbaje and sis mabell

religousity hasnt changed much. people are still the same, the message we preach is not meant for the "know it alls" their experience counts more than anything to them. let them believe what they want to. i have always said that the greatest theologian i know is satan yet he is still a devil.

Jesus was never offended when anybody treated him as God almighty, we know the people who were: the pharisees, sadducees and the scribes.
They would always resort to name calling and its sort.

CAN THEY PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION FYNGUY PUT UP?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A PARTAKER OF THE DIVINE NATURE?

REMEMBER JOHN THE BELOVED WAS ALSO CALLED JOHN THE DIVINE, WAS GOD OFFENDED?

Hey Bro Mba,

You have said it all.

I met someone lastweek who was criticizing ''the so called miracle pastors'' (using his words). You know as usual, he started using Kunle Oshobs ramblings ''The bible says in the last days fake prophets shall come, showing signs and wonders. bla bla bla''.

Then I asked him: ''Are you a believer?''. He said Yes.

Do signs and wonders follow you? He started stammering

mba emeka:

Jesus was never offended when anybody treated him as God almighty, we know the people who were: the pharisees, sadducees and the scribes.
They would always resort to name calling and its sort.

For one, viaro is more concerned with discussing issues and not name-calling anybody in this thread.

CAN THEY PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION FYNGUY PUT UP?

Yes, if you want us to do so; otherwise, I for one was reluctant to engage in "unprofitable semantics to becloud biblical connotations".   But just take it easy, I shall try to answer your concerns.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A PARTAKER OF THE DIVINE NATURE?

Whatever it may mean, it certainly does not mean that human beings become deities (or 'gods'). Have you ever read Hebrews 12:10 - it also speaks of our being "partakers of his holiness" without meaning that we automatically become gods/deities. However, to be a "partaker of His divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4) is to walk in godliness, to put it simply. Read it from verse 3 - it does not say that Christians become deities/gods  because of the 'exceeding great and precious promises' which God has given us - nobody becomes divinity simply because he received any promises from God, otherwise you would have to explain why Abraham who had God's promises was never addressed as a 'god' in Scripture.

REMEMBER JOHN THE BELOVED WAS ALSO CALLED JOHN THE DIVINE, WAS GOD OFFENDED?

Sorry, bro - John was called an apostle (Matt. 10:2); but there is no verse in the Bible calling him 'John the Divine', for that is just a matter of description used by publishers in printing presses, in the same manner that they sometimes referred to him as 'John of Patmos' or 'John the Theologian'. Nowhere did God's Word ever refer to him as John the Divine - and we should not be driven by fanciful things we can't show from Scripture.

Okay, bro funeguy. . initially I wanted to take a chill pill for a very long period, but it seems you're calling me out to discuss.

fyneguy:

Can you divorce divinity from ''Partakers of divine nature''?, if yes, I rest my case

In what sense do you mean by divorcing between 'divinity' and 'partakers of the divine nature'? I'm aware of what the apostle meant by 'partakers of the divine nature' in 2 Pet. 1:4; but does that warrant the specific case of any Christian claiming to be deity/divinity such as the WOF proponents have repeatedly been declaring of themselves?

Let's be clear here: we know that when we refer to 'God' in our faith, we're speaking in terms of Deity - and in that sense, there's none other that we know as 'Deity' than God Himself. However, it is in this very sense of 'deity' that WOF proponents and teachers are claiming that they are 'gods'. They don't mean it in any other way than 'deity' and 'divinity' (even though some are speaking from both sides of their mouths with all sorts of pretentious language to hide the fact).

Here is a sampling of the WOF's 'i am a "small g" god' (pay attention to the implications of what they teach in claiminb 'deity' for themselves) ~

Sounds familiar?

[list][table]
[tr][td][flash=300,250]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZimpS_PKjI&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash][/td][td][list](a) Paula White:
'you are a little elohim; you are a little God'
but she immediately tries to deny that same thing ~~
'I'm not saying you're God, . . .'
but again she asserts that ~~
'. .  but your spirit is God! God!'[/list][/td][/tr][/table][/list]


[list][table][tr][td][flash=300,250]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp1iHYOyHkk&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash][/td][td].[/td]
[td][list](b) Benny Hinn:
~ 'Quit your nonsense. . . what else are you? Is He God? Are you His offspring? Are you His children? You can't be human!'
(c) Kenneth Copeland:
'. . . he was not a little like God; he was not almost like God; he was not. .uhm. . subordinate to God even. . . and Adam was as much like God as you could get! . . . and I want you to know something: Adam was God manifested in the flesh!'[/list][/td][/tr][/table][/list]

Should we need to post the audio and video clips of other WOF teachers on the doctrine of 'small g' gods ~ Creflo Dollar? Paul Crouch? Kenneth Hagin? Earl Paulk? Charles Capps? Joyce Meyer? etc??  Okay, you get the gist.

The implications are clearly spelt out:

[list][table][tr][td][img]http://kingsbridesforum.files./2009/11/wolf20-20sheep2.jpg?w=150&h=91[/img][/td][td].[/td][td]1.   the idea that 'you can't be human' (ala Benny Hinn)
2.   Adam was the incarnate God in Eden (ala Kenneth Copeland)
3.   you are 'God!' (ala Paula White)
4.   the only part of you that's human is your physical body (ala Creflo Dollar)[/td][/tr]
[/table][/list]

My dear bro, if these are not already setting off your alarm bells, nothing else would wake you up! When you read viaro making clear that these folks have been caliming 'deity' for themselves in the 'i-am-a-little-god' WOF theology, you're asking me about divorcing what from what?

This was why I asked mabell earlier: how many Deities do you know in your own life as a Christian? [i]For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth — as there are many "gods" and many "lords" — yet for us there is one God (1 Corinthians 8:5-6).

fyneguy:
I'm thinking of opening a thread and ask the ''non-WOF'' (whatever WOF means to them) to preach about FAITH using the scriptures to back it up.

That's fine - please be encouraged to do so, and I'm sure that a few interested folks would do better than I could in that thread.

viaro:

For one, viaro is more concerned with discussing issues and not name-calling anybody in this thread.

Yes, if you want us to do so; otherwise, I for one was reluctant to engage in "unprofitable semantics to becloud biblical connotations".   But just take it easy, I shall try to answer your concerns.

Whatever it may mean, it certainly does not mean that human beings become deities (or 'gods'). Have you ever read Hebrews 12:10 - it also speaks of our being "partakers of his holiness" without meaning that we automatically become gods/deities. However, to be a "partaker of His divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4) is to walk in godliness, to put it simply. Read it from verse 3 - it does not say that Christians become deities/gods  because of the 'exceeding great and precious promises' which God has given us - nobody becomes divinity simply because he received any promises from God, otherwise you would have to explain why Abraham who had God's promises was never addressed as a 'god' in Scripture.

Sorry, bro - John was called an apostle (Matt. 10:2); but there is no verse in the Bible calling him 'John the Divine', for that is just a matter of description used by publishers in printing presses, in the same manner that they sometimes referred to him as 'John of Patmos' or 'John the Theologian'. Nowhere did God's Word ever refer to him as John the Divine - and we should not be driven by fanciful things we can't show from Scripture.

lol Bro Viaro,

I think you are still given to semantics, afterall.

First, Holiness is a subset of the divine nature. Hence, we are partakers of holiness because we are partakers of divine nature.

Now, divine nature refers to the nature of God Himself! (see 2 Peter 1v4  CEV  or the New century version)

Now what makes God, God, is His nature.

Being born again, has to do with the supplanting of the human nature by God's nature. That's why the product of that process is called ''a New creature''. What makes us ''gods'' is because  our nature is His.

Your argument on divinity and deity is as misplaced as that of those debating trinity. Perhaps, Jesus could not have been the son of God and at the same time God?

Did you know that Jesus never called his disciples ''Brethren'' until he had resurrected? They were servants until He did. (strong meat? )

When He resurrected, Jesus ceased being ''the only begotten son''. He became the firstborn among many others who are born of God.

Bros, I really think you  are just being religious.

I'm sure you would be wondering why Jesus said what he said in John 17 vs 21 and 22 - afterall God will never share his glory with man  abi?

viaro:

Okay, bro funeguy. . initially I wanted to take a chill pill for a very long period, but it seems you're calling me out to discuss.

In what sense do you mean by divorcing between 'divinity' and 'partakers of the divine nature'? I'm aware of what the apostle meant by 'partakers of the divine nature' in 2 Pet. 1:4; but does that warrant the specific case of any Christian claiming to be deity/divinity such as the WOF proponents have repeatedly been declaring of themselves?

Let's be clear here: we know that when we refer to 'God' in our faith, we're speaking in terms of Deity - and in that sense, there's none other that we know as 'Deity' than God Himself. However, it is in this very sense of 'deity' that WOF proponents and teachers are claiming that they are 'gods'. They don't mean it in any other way than 'deity' and 'divinity' (even though some are speaking from both sides of their mouths with all sorts of pretentious language to hide the fact).

Here is a sampling of the WOF's 'i am a "small g" god' (pay attention to the implications of what they teach in claiminb 'deity' for themselves) ~

Sounds familiar?

[list][table]
[tr][td][flash=300,250]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZimpS_PKjI&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash][/td][td][list](a) Paula White:
'you are a little elohim; you are a little God'
but she immediately tries to deny that same thing ~~
'I'm not saying you're God, . . .'
but again she asserts that ~~
'. .  but your spirit is God! God!'[/list][/td][/tr][/table][/list]


[list][table][tr][td][flash=300,250]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp1iHYOyHkk&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/flash][/td][td].[/td]
[td][list](b) Benny Hinn:
~ 'Quit your nonsense. . . what else are you? Is He God? Are you His offspring? Are you His children? You can't be human!'
(c) Kenneth Copeland:
'. . . he was not a little like God; he was not almost like God; he was not. .uhm. . subordinate to God even. . . and Adam was as much like God as you could get! . . . and I want you to know something: Adam was God manifested in the flesh!'[/list][/td][/tr][/table][/list]

Should we need to post the audio and video clips of other WOF teachers on the doctrine of 'small g' gods ~ Creflo Dollar? Paul Crouch? Kenneth Hagin? Earl Paulk? Charles Capps? Joyce Meyer? etc??  Okay, you get the gist.

The implications are clearly spelt out:

[list][table][tr][td][img]http://kingsbridesforum.files./2009/11/wolf20-20sheep2.jpg?w=150&h=91[/img][/td][td].[/td][td]1.   the idea that 'you can't be human' (ala Benny Hinn)
2.   Adam was the incarnate God in Eden (ala Kenneth Copeland)
3.   you are 'God!' (ala Paula White)
4.   the only part of you that's human is your physical body (ala Creflo Dollar)[/td][/tr]
[/table][/list]

My dear bro, if these are not already setting off your alarm bells, nothing else would wake you up! When you read viaro making clear that these folks have been caliming 'deity' for themselves in the 'i-am-a-little-god' WOF theology, you're asking me about divorcing what from what?

This was why I asked mabell earlier: how many Deities do you know in your own life as a Christian? [i]For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth — as there are many "gods" and many "lords" — yet for us there is one God (1 Corinthians 8:5-6).


That's fine - please be encouraged to do so, and I'm sure that a few interested folks would do better than I could in that thread.

lol Viaro,

I'm trying so hard not to say you cant handle strong meat of God's word

Bro, you need to grow up o.


Read 1 Corithians 3 Vs 4 and tell me if you (a supposed christian) are supposed to be human.

@fyneguy,

fyneguy:

lol Bro Viaro,

I think you are still given to semantics, afterall.

How is that so? BTW, when are you going to open that thread of yours?

First, Holiness is a subset of the divine nature. Hence, we are partakers of holiness because we are partakers of divine nature.

Does that make you a deity? Please answer that question, thank you.

Now, divine nature refers to the nature of God Himself! (see 2 Peter 1v4 CEV or the New century version)

I checked that verse in so many other versions as well: the question still is - does that verse say that Christians have thereby become deity? Why are you folks not answering that question?

Now what makes God, God, is His nature.

And how we know which 'God' we're speaking about is the essential attribute that He alone possesses - Deity.

Being born again, has to do with the supplanting of the human nature by God's nature. That's why the product of that process is called ''a New creature''. What makes us ''gods'' is because our nature is His.

In other words, what makes you a 'god' is because you're Deity as well, no? Please answer that simple question, if you may.

Your argument on divinity and deity is as misplaced as that of those debating trinity. Perhaps, Jesus could not have been the son of God and at the same time God?

Oh brother, you have no clue. I've learnt to not argue the Trinity with just about anybody on Nairaland; but that does not mean I ever denied the Deity of the Son of God. In just the same way, that Jesus the Son of the Living God is at the same time God (deity, theos) does not mean that those who believe in Him automatically become God (deity, theos) - otherwise, that would mean that there is more than one God in your Christianity.

Did you know that Jesus never called his disciples ''Brethren'' until he had resurrected? They were servants until He did. (strong meat? )

Uhm, excuse me bro . . . are you reading a pamphlet instead of your Bible? Perhaps you got that quip straight out of the mouth of one of 'em WOF teachers, but it is not true. Rather, Jesus called His disciples "Brethren" before His resurrection. Look carefully -

[list]Matthew 12:49
"And He stretched forth His hand toward His disciples, and said, Behold My mother and My brethren!"[/list]

[list]Mark 3:35
"For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is My brother, and my sister, and mother."[/list]

These are examples of the Lord Jesus Christ calling His disciples "Brethren"; but He did not by that mean that whoever was His brother was also a deity, did He?

When He resurrected, Jesus ceased being ''the only begotten son''. He became the firstborn among many others who are born of God.

First, did you notice that only one of the Gospels refers to Jesus as the "only begotten" Son of God? Neither Matthew, Mark nor Luke ever used that term for Him, while you find it was only John who specifically was inspired to so describe Him - and throughout Scripture, Jesus is the only Person ever so described as the "only begotten Son" of God. That term ('monogenēs' - 'only begotten') is used in reference to His Deity and has no reference to anyone being 'born again' or regenerated.

Second, the term "firstborn" (prōtotokos - also translated 'firstbegotten' in KJV) is used for Christ both before His Incarnation and after His resurrection; and in these two epochs, He is "firstborn" (or "firstbegotten" in reference to creation, redemption and glorification. Further, it is not only in reference to Christians that He is 'firstborn', but rather in reference to the entire creation of God. Let me show you:

[list]* Romans 8:29 - we are predestinated to be conformed to the image of God's Son, that He might be the 'firstborn' among many brethren.[/list]

[list]* Colossians 1:15 - being the image of the invisible God, He is also the 'firstborn' of every creature[/list]

[list]* Colossians 1:18 - in redemption, He is the 'firstborn' from the dead (see also Rev. 1:5 where He is called 'the first begotten of the dead')[/list]

[list]* but even before His crucifixion, Jesus is also called the 'firstbegotten' (prōtotokos) in Heb. 1:6 ~ "when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship Him."[/list]

The point in all these is to show you that the fact that Christ is called "only begotten" and "firstbegotten" does not make any Christian into a deity! Many times, WOF teachers just tear these verses out of context to gull their listeners, and not many people listening to them ever take the time to check what those terms might have been referring to. When you don't check, you make yourself an easy candidate for the heresies of WOF teachers.

Bros, I really think you are just being religious.

What does that mean? I was being 'religious' for not falling an easy target for any WOF teaching?

I'm sure you would be wondering why Jesus said what he said in John 17 vs 21 and 22 - afterall God will never share his glory with man abi?

Even John 17:21 & 22 does not teach that any Christian is a deity.

_____________

fyneguy:

lol Viaro,

I'm trying so hard not to say you cant handle strong meat of God's word

Okay, no worries. My chill pill has worn off now.

Bro, you need to grow up o.

Yes sir.

Read 1 Corithians 3 Vs 4 and tell me if you (a supposed christian) are supposed to be human.

I read 1 Corinthians 3:4 this morning in my devotion ~ "For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?" How does that say that I am supposed to deny my humanity?

There's a simple question I would like to ask those inclined to the teachings of WOF movement:

@fyneguy
@jaffi
@mba emeka
@Joagbaje
@. . and others :::

When WOF teachers say "I am a God" or "I am a god" or "we are gods", are you saying that makes you a DEITY?

That is as simply as I can put it, and your answers will help us keep this thread neat and free from unnecessary distrations. Thank you.

Word of Faith = Gnosticism

GNOSIS is a Greek work that means knowledge, in particular, "Revelation knowledge", hidden truths that are revealed supernaturally to the initiate. The Gnostics of old had certain central beliefs and these are now coming to the surface again today."

DEFINITION
The "Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church" defines gnosticism thus:
A religious movement in which central importance was attached to the gnosis, or revelation knowledge, of God and of the origin and destiny of mankind. The source of this special gnosis or knowledge was held to be either the Apostles from whom it was derived by a secret tradition, or by a direct revelation."

HERETICAL DOCTRINES

The goal was to attain self-awareness as a spiritual being, and god-consciousness. The true world is spirit, and the material realm is a snare from which we must escape. All men possess a divine spark, a part of the divine being, which fell from the transcendent realm into the material universe, and was imprisoned in human bodies. Reawakened by knowledge, the divine element in humanity can return to its proper home in the transcendent spiritual realm. Gnostics knew nothing of the redemption of the body. Their hope was in the transformation of the soul! Characteristic of the gnostic teaching was that the material creation was antagonistic to what is truly spiritual, but that each man had a spark or seed of the divine substance within (Pelegianism). Through the secret doctrines and the rites associated with them, this divine spark might be rescued from its evil material environment and be reunited with the divine.

Here's how Christian Gnostics explained the phenomenon of Jesus Christ:

The "christ spirit" simply inhabited the body of the man Jesus. The christ spirit had come to teach man the gnosis whereby he could free himself from bondage to the evil material world. Some even taught that Jesus did not actually have a body of flesh, but was pure spirit. Thus the ideas of physical death and resurrection were denied by the gnostics.

Those who are modern day gnostics in the Church would be people the Word-Faith movement.

Word-Faith Gnostic Teachings

The Word-Faith movement is very Gnostic in many ways, and it comes out of the New Thought Movement.

New Thought Movement

The movement originated in 19th Century New England, and is now worldwide. New Thought includes Divine Science, Religious Science (Science of Mind), Seicho-No-Ie, Unity, and other groups. From its early writings to its current use of process philosophy, it consciously has incorporated Eastern and Western insights. Phineas Parkhurst Quimby generally is recognized as the "Father of New Thought." He transmitted his views to Warren Felt Evans, Mary Baker Eddy, and Julius and Annetta Dresser. Essek Kenyon was another New Thought teacher, and Kenneth Hagin used Kenyon's ideas almost verbatim. Kenneth Copeland and all other Word-Faith teachers trace their roots back to Hagin and Kenyon. Another strain of new thought is to be found in the Norman Vincent Peale adherents of the "positive confession" movement. His followers were Robert Schuller and many others.

HERETICAL DOCTRINES

New Thought is a popular application of philosophical idealism, optimistic mental discipline, and the practice of the presence of God in healing and in daily living. New Thought metaphysics in its various forms combines (1) Hindu-like pantheism in the denial of objective material reality and (2) Western, largely Christian, recognition of the reality of the world as divine creation, with matter a name for certain mental experiences. NT was influenced by quantum physics as well as philosophy and Process New Thought. Each new experience co-creates itself with God by blending the influence of the past with individually-tailored divine guidance: PAST + DIVINE PROPOSAL (God's offer of perfection as expressible in that situation) + CHOICE = NEW CREATION. All creating is co-creating; there was no original creation.

Word-Faith Movement

", it can be shown that Word of Faith does hold to gnosticism in some degree: the true man is spirit, not flesh; we can rise above sin, sickness and even death, to a life of the spirit; we can overcome this fallen world - not by the life of Jesus, the Tree of Life, but by the Tree of hidden Wisdom, through the possession and use of words - which have creative power to release us from the material world; ultimately we become so glorified that we are transformed into spiritual-beings." (Tricia Tillin, THE NEW THING - Part One. Global Revival as the Key Element In Deception in Twentieth Century Pentecostalism, 1997

Benny Hinn

"Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge, you are god" (Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1)
Word-Faith Movement (Prosperity Doctrine/Positive Confession)

BRIEF HISTORY

Word-Faith is the fastest-growing movement within the professing church. It has involved two distinct but closely related factions: the Peale/Schuller Positive/Possibility thinkers, with their roots in New Thought, and the Hagin/Copeland Positive Confession and Word-Faith groups, which have their roots in E.W. Kenyon, William Branham, and the Manifest Sons of God/Latter Rain Movement. (Charismatic Chaos , p. 281).

Though popular today, but it coexisted with, and grew out of the Latter Rain movement. It tends to be predominantly trinitarian, as opposed to the Latter Rain movement, but holds to the primary doctrines put forward by William Branham, and most leaders in this movement uphold Branham as a man of God or prophet. (Christianity in Crisis, Hank Hanegraaf, Harvest House, 1993)

HERETICAL DOCTRINES

Because of the diverse nature of the movement, the doctrines listed below are representative of those held widely or predominantly throughout the leadership of the movement.

- Christians are "gods", and therefore do not need to ask "in God's will", but rather use our own divinity to speak what we want into being.
- We are lacking faith if we are not healthy and wealthy. (God intended for us to be rich and healthy).
- Men are capable of saving themselves.
- Belief in faith as a "force" capable of being used for good or evil.
- Use of faith-force to change reality or to create through visualization
- God is unable to operate within the earth realm without our help
- Use of words (negative) releases Satan's power, while words (positive) release God's power.
- See Also Manifest Sons of God; and William Branham. (Christianity in Crisis, Hank Hanegraaff, Harvest House, 1993)

@ Jaffi, fynguy, joagbaje and mba emeka, can i please have your email addresses as there is an article i need to send to your boxes. will be waiting, thanks

mabell:

@ Jaffi, fynguy, joagbaje and mba emeka, can i please have your email addresses as there is an article i need to send to your boxes. will be waiting, thanks

this is my address
digha.mabel@yahoo.com

viaro:

There's a simple question I would like to ask those inclined to the teachings of WOF movement:

@fyneguy
@jaffi
@mba emeka
@Joagbaje
@. . and others :::

When WOF teachers say "I am a God" or "I am a god" or "we are gods", are you saying that makes you a DEITY?

That is as simply as I can put it, and your answers will help us keep this thread neat and free from unnecessary distrations. Thank you.

Anyone who hails from God is  a God, Well let me use small letter g for now but you know that bible didnt put small lettes or big. it simply used the word "elohim" So whoever hails from God is God or a god. That was the destiny of man , to function as God. Adam was made a god in the world.  He was to grow to maturity and eat of the 2 significant trees in the garden , namely; tree of knowledge of good and evil and tree of life.  God was training this man


Genesis 2:19-20
   And out of the ground the Lord[b] God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them:[/b] and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. [20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Man was to judge lucifer and other fallen beings(1cor 6). That was the reason for the tree in the first place. As a judge he needs to have knowledge of good and evil. You need to know also that those who deputise for God in judgement were also called gods(Elohim) in the bible .


Exodus 7:1
   And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Psalm 82:1
   A Psalm of Asaph.
   God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Exodus 21:6
   Then his master shall bring him unto the judges[b]{ ELOHIM}[/b]; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

the word for judges up here is Elohim,

So we have classes of gods
Those born of God, Those who mature in God. Those who have recieved the word of God.

Psalm 82:6
   I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34-35
   Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

I will come back to explain , my laptop battery is beeping.

Joagbaje:

Anyone who hails from God is  a God, Well let me use small letter g for now but you know that bible didnt put small lettes or big. it simply used the word "elohim" So whoever hails from God is God or a god. That was the destiny of man , to function as God. Adam was made a god in the world.  He was to grow to maturity and eat of the 2 significant trees in the garden , namely; tree of knowledge of good and evil and tree of life.
[center]. . .[/center]
So we have classes of gods
Those born of God, Those who mature in God. Those who have recieved the word of God.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (II Timothy 4:3-4, KJV)

Before now I had thought that you were maybe a Christian brother gone astray, but it is evident to me that you are no Christian but a neo-gnostic with shades of Mormon mythology thrown in.
You imply that God intended Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? You are under a strong delusion for no where does the bible say what you say above.
You in fact say the direct opposite of what God reveals in his word thus showing that you are most certainly not a follower of Jesus Christ.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:16-17, KJV)

So you are saying that God didn't really mean it when He told Adam that "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". What difference is there between what you said from the serpent's:

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:1-5, KJV)

Who is it that opposes God? You know the answer to that.

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Revelation 13:11, KJV)

^^Strong answer there, aletheia.

Could I add some few to Joagbaje's rejoinder?

_________

@Joagbaje,

Thank you for the boldness to directly deal with my question - I appreciate that very much.

The reason why I specifically made the point of 'Deity' is to distinguish between the loose use of the term 'God' and the Biblical use of that same term ('God') for the One we worship. This is why Jeremiah 10:11 has been quoted several times, because only God in the sense of 'Deity' is said to have made the heavens and the earth and all things in them - so, "the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens."

When you thus say:

Joagbaje:

Anyone who hails from God is a God,

. . are you meaning that human beings are therefore deities? If that is what you're implying, then there is just no difference between you and the pagans around the world. Why? Because Paul in Acts 17:28-29 uses the descriptives of "we are the offspring of God" to agree with Athenian poets who have said 'we are also his offspring' - yet, the same Paul had directly accused the Athenians of being "too superstitious" in verse 22.

Then again, Paul declares the 'God' he was preaching to them - "God that made the world and all things therein". . . does Jeremiah 10:11 come to mind again?

Bro, those who go about declaring that they are 'deities' will simply perish - that is the message of the prophet Jeremiah (ch. 10:11) and the Psalmist (Psa. 82:6-7).

This assertion of 'anyone who hails from God is a God' flies in the face of the fact that no man (believer or unbeliever) is ascribed with the attributes of divinity or Deity throughout Scripture - not even Adam. When you say "hails" from God, what do you mean, really? Adam was created by God, and so are other beings. So if by creation you are inferring that Adam was a god and therefore a deity, what is Satan called if not "the god of this world" (2 Cor. 4:4)?? We know that Satan is not Deity - he did not create the heavens and the earth and all things in them; and that is why we ought to distinguish between God who is truly Deity and "them which by nature are no gods" (Galatians 4:8).

Enough said for now. In all the claims of "i-am-a-god", you are NOT a deity. Nada. Nix. Zilch.

No christian is deity like God to receive worship,praise and adoration and will never be in that class. And deities are also immortal which we have not yet achieved, until christ comes. When a christian say he is god he do not mean people should worship him like God almighty. But he is talking about the nature he has which is supernatural(his spirit been recreated after the image of God) that make him god, like the bible say, but not God almighty. Is a class that the christian belong to, which is superior to the natural man(non believer) because of the holy ghost that resides in him. But not deity in the sense like God almighty, to know all things and create maybe a new sun, NO. But it means we are sons of the most high. No christian will ever think of becoming God almighty that will mean he has the nature of the devil, who wanted to be like God almighty to recieve praise and adored.

This post will be quite long, please bear with me. I chose not to break it up into parts.

HERESY 101: A crash course on the Word of Faith

The WOF movement is one of the reasons why Christianity is held in high contempt and ridicule in the news today.

The core of the teaching in Word of Faith doctrine is that God has no other will in relation to requests by believers than to grant the will of human beings, which is false teaching at the root. Believers are not omniscient and many times are clueless as to what is actually required in their lives, and is the specific point made in Romans 8:26-27. Verse 27 says the Holy Spirit intercedes on behalf of believers "according to the will of God," not according to some definition of God's will based on the desires of human beings. The expression of a desire has no relation to the propriety of that desire in the life of a believer.

WOF Teachings about Divinity
Each WOF adherent claims to be a god, the same as the God of the Bible, and he claims that every believer is also a god, so how does the fact that God says He is the only God square with WOF teachings about polytheism?
To claim that there is more than one God (whether that god is a 'little god' or a 'big' god) is to teach polytheism. To equate any human being the same as God is blasphemy of the highest order.
This WOF teaching is a version of Mormon exaltation theology, in which a person can be exalted to godhood and have their own planet and father billions of spiritual children who later become human beings. Thus, WOF borrows heavily from Mormon theology. . .

WOF teaches that God is bound by our requests, that FAITH is more powerful than God and it causes God to act.
That is the primary message in Word of Faith teaching, the number one claim of the movement! Word of Faith teaches that you can write your own ticket with God in which you can have whatever you claim, based on the application of faith and use of the correct words, because God is bound by laws higher than Himself, which He cannot ignore, so He must grant those desires. If a person can learn to use those laws (the primary law of faith being the most important) then God can be manipulated into granting whatever request is desired. It is faith that is more powerful than God and causes God to act, and he must act on behalf of the person presenting the request. That is why Word of Faith has such a great following, because it appeals to the most base characteristics of human nature.

The WOF modus operandi and purposes
Word of Faith is not about finding a greater spiritual relationship with God, but the obtaining of the temporal and base things of this life, health, wealth, prestige, power and happiness, by the use of words and assumed faith in order to manipulate God. The tool used here is "confession".
Word of Faith teaching denies that a person should defer to the will of God on any matter; defining the acceptance of God's will instead of a person's will as expressing doubt or a lack of faith, which will result in the request not being granted, because it is claimed that positive faith (positive confession) forces God to act. Word of Faith teaching assumes that man's will is superior to God's will, because to deny a deference to God's will in the life of a person is to deny the power of God to carry out His will, which defines God as being impotent. Word of Faith pre-defines God's will for Christians to be health, wealth and happiness. It is impossible for word of faith teachers to accept that God's will in any situation or in relation to any person could be anything but perfection of existence in this life, according to the pre-defined definition. This completely ignores the action of God in relation to Job, the denial of healing by God for the apostle Paul, the statement by Jesus Christ that believers would be persecuted, and the fact that the death of Jesus Christ was not only the will of God but was planned and orchestrated by God.

No person has the ability to command God to perform at any level and God is not subject to obedience, because there is nothing greater than Himself to which He is subject and must obey. Commands are given to a subservient or one who is subordinate to the one giving the command. God is neither subservient or subordinate, because He is omnipotent.

Here are some quotes sourced from Kenneth Copeland as an example of WOF teachers:

"As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word." 'Our Covenant with God,' KCP Publications, 1987, p. 32)

"When we use the spiritual laws that God has set up, God must obey what we request." 'Praise the Lord,' TBN, February 5, 1986

"What you are saying is exactly what you are getting now. If you are living in poverty and lack and want, change what you are saying,  The powerful force of the spiritual world that creates the circumstances around us is controlled by the words of the mouth." "The Laws of Prosperity," Kenneth Copeland, Ft. Worth: Kenneth Copeland Publications, 1974  What a cute way of describing the WOF's view of God.

"God cannot do anything for you apart or separate from faith. Faith is God's source of power." "Freedom from Fear," KCM, 1980, pg. 11-12

"You have the same creative faith and ability on the inside of you that God used when he created the heavens and the earth." Kenneth Copeland, 'Inner Image of the Covenant,' side 2.

"God used words when He created the heaven and the earth, Each time God spoke, He released His faith -- the creative power to bring His words to pass." Kenneth Copeland, The Power of the Tongue (Fort Worth: KCP Publications, 1980), 4.

There is no verse in the entire Bible that states that God ever used faith in relation to any creative act. I challenge any Word of Faith teacher or believer to find any verse or passage in the Bible that states that God used faith to create any entity or that He must or does use faith in any aspect of His existence in relation to His power or the implementation of His will. God is not subject to faith; God is the source of faith and the object of faith. Any claim that God is subject to faith or that faith has any power or authority over God is false and heretical teaching.

And then this one below just clinches it: WOF teachings are NOT Christianly, it is a form of pagan worship afterall.

"You really cannot ever come to that place were you let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who thought it not robbery to be called equal with God. Let this mind be in Kenneth Copeland, Oh my goodness, Ah! that thinks its not robbery to be called equal with God."
Kenneth Copeland, Believer's Voice of Victory, Monday 29th January 2001, GOD TV

"'Don't be disturbed when people accuse you of thinking you are God ,  They crucified Me for claiming I was God. I didn't claim that I was God; I just claimed that I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah! That's what you're doing , '"
'Take Time to Pray,' Believer's Voice of Victory, February 1987, p. 9

"You don't have a god in you, you are one."
'The Force of Love,' audiotape Kenneth Copeland, 1987

Can we see the confusion in these three statements, where in the first Copeland says he's considered equal with God; and in the second says Christ didn't even claim so, that he just walked with Him  (meaning Copeland can claim divinity while Christ didn't do so) and in the third he says not only are you equal, you are GOD. 

Kenneth Copeland sincerely believes that very soon, he will muster enough ability to rival God. His excuse so far is that he's not there yet.

"Well, He created all those planets, how come you can't create something? You don't know as much about it as He does. He has a greater working knowledge of that faith than you do. But we're learning. Our time is coming. And in some ways its already here."
Kenneth Copeland, Cornerstone Church with John Hagee, San Antonio, Texas, August 18, 1999.

FINALLY, every WOF adherent spreads the possible greatest heresy and blasphemy in Christianity because
1. He places himself in the position of God by claiming that he is a god.

2. He claims to have the same creative power as God - which he cannot demonstrate at any level.

3. He teaches the same claim that Satan made when he attempted to usurp the place of God.

4. He teaches the same message that Satan presented to Eve in the Garden of Eden.

5. He denies the deity of Jesus Christ.

6. He denies the uniqueness and power of the atonement by stating that he, as a man of faith, could have substituted for Jesus Christ and accomplished the atonement himself.

7. He gives false prophecies, demonstrating that he is a false prophet according to Deuteronomy 18:22.
We really need to deal with what WOF is teaching, because you do not understand just how far away they are from any right biblical understanding.

@ viaro and Altheia , The anti faith websites you guys are visiting has clouded your mind from the truth. Those websites are Satanic, false brethren. How can someone be teaching against faith and authority of the believers.

aletheia:

Before now I had thought that you were maybe a Christian brother gone astray, but it is evident to me that you are no Christian but a neo-gnostic with shades of Mormon mythology thrown in.
You imply that God intended Adam to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? You are under a strong delusion for no where does the bible say what you say above.
You in fact say the direct opposite of what God reveals in his word thus showing that you are most certainly not a follower of Jesus Christ.
So you are saying that God didn't really mean it when He told Adam that "in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". What difference is there between what you said from the serpent's:
Who is it that opposes God? You know the answer to that.

God told Adam he would die if he ate the fruit. So did he die? God said he would die that very day , So did he die that very day? Did God lie?.

God spoke in the language the man would understand. Adam was not a perfect man ( I mean maturity) Bible schollars call that time. Dispensation of innocense. He was not yet matured or trained.You tell a little child that blade is dangerous ,going to the road is dangerous. Some mothers tells their little girls that playing with boys will get them pregnant , without explaining details because the innocent child would not understant details . So you give them rules: don't go out. Don't touch razorblade. That doesn't make razor bad. It was not the content of the fruit that was the problem but the disobedience. He ate it at the Devil's command but not at God's command. The fruit was actually meant for man but he ate it prematurely.I don't know how many months or years they were in the garden under training . But God had told them to reproduce children . How come they did not? Why did he put them only in a garden when his desire was for them to replenish the entire earth? For all the days , weeks or months they were confined in that garden they didn't touch each other, they did not even know they were naked! Why ? It was not time . They were to judge angels and other fallen beings As God but they didn't even know good and evil. ( justice)

Heb 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You can seen that the ability to jugde good and evil is a mark of maturity and not negative.The secret of their producing children is in the fruit. The secret of the knowledge of judgement was in it too. They still had tree of life to eat after their maturity but God had to prevent them from eating the other tree of life . He had to sent them out because if they had proceeded in their fallen nature to go ahead and eat of the tree of life , man will remain in that fallen state perpetually . There would be no salvation or redemption . God had to prepare another Adam as man's last hope JESUS. To take back for us what the devil stole. How come it is easier for you to accept the devil as god of this world and cannot accept the people that it was meant for.God gave back the whole world to us through Abtaham. If you are seed of Abraham you own the world. Joint heirs with Christ.

Rom 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

@Viaro and Aletheia :A word of advise, Your criticism of teachers of faith are based on those nonsence sites you're quoting from. Why don't you do an independent research yourself . Have you read any Benny Hinn books or Kenyon? If you do, your perception will change. If you visit anti bible site and you've not read the bible, you may call Christians fools.

nuella2:

No christian is deity like God to receive worship,praise and adoration and will never be in that class. And deities are also immortal which we have not yet achieved, until christ comes. When a christian say he is god he do not mean people should worship him like God almighty. But he is talking about the nature he has which is supernatural(his spirit been recreated after the image of God) that make him god, like the bible say, but not God almighty. Is a class that the christian belong to, which is superior to the natural man(non believer) because of the holy ghost that resides in him. But not deity in the sense like God almighty, to know all things and create maybe a new sun, NO. But it means we are sons of the most high. No christian will ever think of becoming God almighty that will mean he has the nature of the devil, who wanted to be like God almighty to recieve praise and adored.

@nuella2,
Thank you so much for your reply. Let me outline my answers:

1. I agree with you that no Christian is deity - that is the point I have been trying to highlight in this thread for those who have been going by the doctrines of WOF proponents and teachers, some of whom we have identified.

2. Since no Christian is a deity, it should be plain then that no Christian can 'create' anything or bring things into existence in just the same way that God brings creation into existence.

3. No Christian will thus think of himself or herself as deity as God is Deity; because to think of becoming like God exactly as He is ('Deity'), is tantamount 'having the nature of the devil', as you said (and I agree).

Consequently, I would like to point out again that these three features above are part of what identify those we have often referred to in examples of WOF teachers: Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch, etc, - they have declared that:

        ~~ they cannot be human

        ~~ they are God and divinity

        ~~ they can create just like God can create

        ~~ there is no difference at all between them and God

For others who might been agreeing with the doctrines taught by these WOF teachers and proponents, we ask you to be careful what you're buying into. Cheers.

@Joabgaje,

Your concerns are appreciated, and here is my reply:

Joagbaje:

@ viaro and Altheia , The anti faith websites you guys are visiting has clouded your mind from the truth. Those websites are Satanic, false brethren. How can someone be teaching against faith and authority of the believers.

I don't know if I've been visiting anti-faith or satanic websites; but if you care for 'truth', I would like to know if you're one of those who has been visiting the WOF websites teaching you that you're supposed to be deity: are you a deity, Joagbaje?

@Viaro and Aletheia :A word of advise, Your criticism of teachers of faith are based on those nonsence sites you're quoting from. Why don't you do an independent research yourself .

I have tried to do my own independent research and also tried to draw directly from the Bible in my comments on this thread. There are certain things which those WOF teachers don't want you to know; and that is what we would like to expose. This one is appetizer, main course will follow in due course! Patience, bro.

Have you read any Benny Hinn books or Kenyon? If you do, your perception will change. If you visit anti bible site and you've not read the bible, you may call Christians fools.

You're right: after reading a few of Benny Hinn's and Kenyon's books, my perception about them changed and I have never recovered from that! I used to respect them; but after reading directly from them, I was shamed to see them for the sham they are! That does not make me call any true Christian a 'fool' - I regard as foolish only those people who have eyes to see and will yet blind themselves to the heresies of these men.

I dont believe in Mormonism or Gnosticm , But if they have any form of truth , it does happen. There are some form of truths here and there, even in other faith but that doesnt mean they know the truth.

There are different classes of use of the word God for man. If I may say;Those who have recieved his word. Those who are born of him and Those who by the virtue of knowledge  grow up into him.

In my earlier post ,I talked abot the use of the word god. I said God created man to rule over thee earth as a God(Elohim) That was Gods plan to Man.

Altheia said there is only one God. I agree with you. But where does Jesus fall and the holyghost? If you understand truth ,you will really know that Jesus was really your brother.

Well ,for these OT folks , the class of God they funtion in was far different from what Jesus brought to us as New creation in Christ. Adam was forbidden to eat of The tree of life . So all of them that came through him never partook of God's life.
That was why God sent the second Adam which also was last Adam ,Man's last hope.

John 1:4
   In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

This life is God's kind of life, his nature .

John 5:26
   For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Sonship with God goes beyond birth but it makes reference to maturity. We grow into sonship.It means just  like the father. The Son does what the father does. You  cant separate the father  from the Son.God is a judge , his Son must be a judge also.

[color=#990000]John 5:22-23
   For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

John 5:27
   And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the[b] Son of man( anthropos)[/b]. [/color]

This is not the the son trying to usurp authority but just becoming the fathers dream. We are to judge the world

John 5:30
   I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

So you see,It is one of the qualities of God and his Sons to judge.

1 Cor. 2:15
   But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Cor. 6:2-3
   Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? [3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

We are not trying to claim Gods glory here, he gave it to us. we just accept who we are ,thats all.

John 17:22
   And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
being born again is not an end but rather the begining, We need to grow in the knowledge of our didvinity. We are not of this world. If you believe you are of the world , you will be subject to the laws of this life, sickness and all. but when you wake up to the divine life within, you will be changed.

The life Jesus brougth to us is based on knowledge.Things cant change until there is a renewal of the mind by the word of God. We have divinity as our nature in him.

2 Peter 1:4
   Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John 17:14
   I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:16
   They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Whats he talking about here.A divine life that trascend human  (anthropos) life. We have divine nature and its only a message like this that will get you to function in it. That is why Jesus said those who believe this truth, " if they drink any deadly thing , it would not hurt them". How many Christians today have died of poisoning, Why? because they know not and they understood not. and they walsed on in darkness.
This is the message that will prepare the church for the rapture. We must grow into him in all areas as his sons

Ephes. 4:15
   But speaking the truth in love, may[b] grow up into him in all things,[/b] which is the head, even Christ:

Ephes. 4:13
   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This can only take place through knowlegde. the life is knowledge based.

John 17:3
   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John so much meditated on the teaching of Christ ,he was the closest apostle to Jesus , his writings were different. He understood the message of this life. Read the gospel of John allover and his epistle . he medidtated so much on this life in christ to the extent that it became hard for him to die.evn though he wanted to die, he couldnt. We are not playing religion here. We a divine but there is need for growth in that truth.

1 Cor. 3:3
   For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?[ Anthropos]  

He has brought us to the place of union with Godhead!

John 17:21-22
   That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

What the church need in this age is the knowledge of who we are.If you understand this , you can work miracles easily, cast out devils easily. Ask those people in those anti faith websites can they cast out devils? Mba!

@ viaro

viaro:

You're right: after reading a few of Benny Hinn's and Kenyon's books, my perception about them changed and I have never recovered from that! I used to respect them; but after reading directly from them, I was shamed to see them for the sham they are! That does not make me call any true Christian a 'fool' - I regard as foolish only those people who have eyes to see and will yet blind themselves to the heresies of these men.

If you really read Benniny Hinn and Kenyon books as you claim, I will like you to honestly say what it was they taught that change your perception.
thanks

aletheia:

What difference is there between what you said from the serpent's:

Are you saying there is a connenction between the serpent and  ? I think you are on to something here 

Joagbaje:

@ viaro

If you really read Benniny Hinn and Kenyon books as you claim, I will like you to honestly say what it was they taught that change your perception.
thanks

I shall do so in due course.