A splendid afternoon to everyone.
I want us to have a discussion based on the title of this thread.
Is faith a negation of reason? There has been a great many number of people who over the centuries have claimed that faith and reason are incompatible but is that true? Do religious beliefs fly in the face of all reason? Let's consider this: there have been many strongly held scientific beliefs that have been proved to be wrong but that doesn't necessarily mean that all scientific beliefs are wrong or are not based on reason. Why then do we have to view religious beliefs any differently?

Hi inspired,

Nice topic you got there...

It is my opinion that faith and reason work hand in hand for the most part....I agree that there are times when they seem to be at odds with each other but really, when one takes a cursory look, what we might find out is a situation where we get so many things wrong.

Anyways, it still depends on your definition of reason and how you think reason should be applied...sometimes these can be very subjective depending on our 'brand' of 'looking glass'.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
A splendid afternoon to everyone.
I want us to have a discussion based on the title of this thread.
Is faith a negation of reason? There has been a great many number of people who over the centuries have claimed that faith and reason are incompatible but is that true? Do religious beliefs fly in the face of all reason? Let's consider this: there have been many strongly held scientific beliefs that have been proved to be wrong but that doesn't necessarily mean that all scientific beliefs are wrong or are not based on reason. Why then do we have to view religious beliefs any differently?

faith and reason go hand in hand.

religious fanatics are the ones who have cult-like mentalities and believe to challenge or question is to sin.
the concept of God came about through reasoning and experience in the first place.

the great ancient societies mixed science with faith and thus were able to build such great empires.
but now because of people seeking power and the constant "us against them" mentality of the modern human-being, the world is chaotic.

I see that i am slightly digressing from the topic so i'll end by saying again that true faith and reason go hand in hand.

outc@st:
Hi inspired,

Nice topic you got there...

It is my opinion that faith and reason works hand in hand for the most part....I agree that there are times when they seem to be at odds with each other but really, when one takes a cursory look, what we might find out is a situation where we get so many things wrong.

Anyways, it still depends on your definition of reason and how you think reason should be applied...sometimes these can be very subjective depending on our 'brand' of 'looking glass'.

good points.

IsnpiredbyGod.


Dont listen to the posters above me. They are quite delusional. Do you really expect a "faithful" person to say that faith is not reasonable?


Faith is the belief in things without evidence. Or even sometimes, the belief in things despite the evidence against them.


-Can a dead man really resurrect in 3 days?
-Can a snake really talk?
-Can a donkey really talk?
-Can a man walk on water?
-Can wine and bread be body and blood?


Faith makes you believe in things that are sometimes unbelievable.unreasonable

Logicboy03: IsnpiredbyGod.


Dont listen to the posters above me. They are quite delusional. Do you really expect a "faithful" person to say that faith is not reasonable?


Faith is the belief in things without evidence. Or even sometimes, the belief in things despite the evidence against them.


-Can a dead man really resurrect in 3 days?
-Can a snake really talk?
-Can a donkey really talk?
-Can a man walk on water?
-Can wine and bread be body and blood?


Faith makes you believe in things that are sometimes unbelievable.unreasonable

[size=15pt]Rubbish!!![/size]

outc@st:


[size=15pt]Rubbish!!![/size]

lol

If by reason you mean: the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought or intelligence. And by faith you mean: belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. I would say that faith depends on reason for the fact that it is only intelligent beings that have the CAPACITY TO BELIEVE which is vital to faith.

Uyi Iredia: If by reason you mean: the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought or intelligence. And by faith you mean: belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. I would say that faith depends on reason for the fact that it is only intelligent beings that have the CAPACITY TO BELIEVE which is vital to faith.

When you were a christian and you believed that the old testament God was good, was that reasonable?

Guy, commot with your lies.

@poster
is this where you got the idea for this topic from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_mOejHm_aQ

the question is where does reason come from or who gave you reasoning,or what makes you think,you have reasoning capabilities...answer this questions and let me see what reason you gat

Is it must/necessary to comment?

I know the Nigerian type of faith is not compatible with reason.

outc@st:


[size=15pt]Rubbish!!![/size]

Ogogoro at work.

Of course, yes!
Faith and reason are in deed very compatible!
This was the main thrust of the teaching, research and faith of the scholastic philosophers.
Even in Classical Islam, there was a huge leaning toward the unicity of Faith and reason. The period in question is the great apogee of Islam in human history.

The problem with Faith is that it's very foundation are a paradox! And every faith by that notion is actually unreasonable!
Think about it for a moment.

Questions:

1. What is your faith?(i.e religion)
2. Does your faith not teach you that salvation(paradise,heaven,etc)is only via it's adherence?
3. How did you come to believe in your faith? (i.e religion)
4. How can you prove that your faith is the only way to salvation?

Answers:

1. Your faith is irrelevant all peoples of belief have different concepts of it,so how is one better than the other? Is it by who came first? Is it by their doctrines? They all teach goodness and moral principles and life after death!
So which is better,or truer or the correct one? If none of them is,does that not mean that none of them really matters?

Buddhism was founded in 520BC long before Christianity in India
Christianity was founded in 30AD in Israel
Confucianism was founded in 471BC in China
Islam was founded in 622AD in Saudi Arabia
Jainism was founded in 550BC in Eastern India
Judaism was founded in 1300BC long long before Christianity
Sikhism was founded in 1500AD
Taoism was founded in 550BC

2. If you are reading this,there is a 99% chance that if you believe in a faith system it is simply because you where born into a family,community or society that practices the faith of your belief! If your where born somewhere else in under different circumstances and faith, chances are you would be a believer of a different faith. Fact!

In summary Faith is good for society as a whole,it gives people things to strive towards and helps keep human behaviour in check and under control to a great degree. If we did not have faith systems the world would be a wild and dangerous place as people would have no fear of karma and repercussions. But ultimately faith is a construct of the human mind by men with greater intellect than their peers. It was reason not faith that brought us advances in medicine,science,technology and generally every field of human endeavour.

In the end reason and not faith is the ultimate arbiter of truth! But faith is good to have around as we were not all born equal!

.

In other words, is miracles/magic incompatible with reasoning?

Yes, they are incompatible!

Human beings are very disingenuous. We only use either of them when its convenient for us.

Faith can not be explained by reason, yet it has proofs to be real.
Reason should be applied to solve lives problems , but where reason can not bring any solution, faith should come in.

Dunno what to say actually!!!....*Moving out of rhe thread in shame*

To some length it is compatible. But to support this arguement with evidence, i will recommend u guys to read this book " The Bible, The Quran and Science" it was written by a French man and you can get the E-copy online. It will help u alot.

reason deals with rational thinking, logical soundness, sensory perception and is altogether physical.
Faith on the other hand is spiritual. It is what connects the physical to the spiritual. It is not a function of any physical sensory perception. It is actually the evidence of what physical sense cognition could not percieve.
To that extent, faith and reason are incompatible.

Only christianity and islam are incompatible with reason.

this is noticed from the poor level of arguments put forth by these 2 cultists, in the religious section. .

here is an example:

outc@st:


[size=15pt]Rubbish!!![/size]

muslims (e.g., maclatunji) outrightly ban you for 10-15 years, if they cannot argue with you.

christians (e.g., olaadegbu) will use silly cartoons, unrelated biblical quotes (in large red/blue fonts, quotes like "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.", etc. .

(Religious) Faith is believing in something that isn't (and cannot) be proven. Reason is thinking about something and trying to find the truth by proving or disproving something. These two conflict completely.

The only time anyone employs faith as a support for holding a belief is when there is not reason enough to support the belief. e.g. two plus two equals four (reason); two plus three equals six (requires "faith" to believe that)

IIIIxRoyalxIIII: Faith, Religion and Origin of Life Discussions are Useless to Debate.

They are all rooted in Hypotheticals and ~What If's~

Believers in God are Clueless, Non Believers are Equally Clueless

Anyone who continually waste time in debating such, especially on a Nigerian Forum with a bunch of Mindless Religious Zealots is a Person with Far too much time on their hands.

Nobody is right, Nobody is Wrong.

Your Minds are Far to primitive to understand These Concepts

This idea of "Man God"....and callling god a "Him", Is directly influenced by peoples previous belief in religion

However, because man religion has been ripped to shreds by the knowledgeable, The "Non Religious" Believer..{Which is a Joke in itself) Wants to stand in the middle and claim..."Yes religion is ridiculous but i still believe in God"

You only believe in "God" because you have been indoctrinated with flawed concepts and a flawed philosophy on the belief and Existence of Life

My Children Remember one Thing, Everyone on Earth is "Born" a Non Believer...

"Non Belief" Is the Starting Point.

A Child is Born into this world with a Mind as Blank as a White Sheet of Paper.

Your "Beginning" knew of no such Probable Fallacies. Man has put the idea of "Man God" Into your mind.

Nobody is right, Nobody is Wrong, what is certain is that a Child Born is Originally a Non Believer Until Corruption with a Possibly Fictional & Fabricated Hypothetical.

To be quite honest, i have yet to encounter one mind on this forum at the Level or on Par with mines to even have such a complicated debate.

The Writings i read on Origin, Belief, Faith & God, are very poor to be Honest.

WITH DUE RESPECT, IF YOU WERE NOT IN A HASTE TO IMPRESS, YOU WOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT YOUR PREMISE AND CONCLUSION ARE CONTRADICTORY.

@Op, Logicboy03 gave you an answer based on reason, others are merely trying to justify their FAITH.

PAGAN 9JA:
Only christianity and islam are incompatible with reason.

this is noticed from the poor level of arguments put forth by these 2 cultists, in the religious section. .

here is an example:

Olodo where is your argument?

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not this again..

tchaik:



WITH DUE RESPECT, IF YOU WERE NOT IN A HASTE TO IMPRESS, YOU WOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT YOUR PREMISE AND CONCLUSION ARE CONTRADICTORY.

@Op, Logicboy03 gave you an answer based on reason, others are merely trying to justify their FAITH.

How can a Premise and a Conclusion be Contradictory, when no Conclusion was ever Written.

You see what happens when Third World Minds such as yourself try to articulate themselves

You are Reading The Author's Narrative Backwards. Read the Sixth Line and you will see your error

There is no "conclusion" in my writing, only a starting point.

Now try again kid