Everywhere you cross these days you see them talking how terrible PHP is for web development. The funny thing is that some of these folks who disparagingly criticise PHP are newbies who can't really "relate" to or clearly explain why PHP is "awful."

Granted, PHP isn't one of the best designed languages out there judging from my deeper understanding of PHP and average knowledge of Java, C#, and JavaScript, with basic knowledge of C and C++, coupled with other stuff about programming/web...

However, there is too much noise by, mostly, noise making "programming JAMBitos" out there about PHP being a terrible language. Many of these guys can't build anything "clean" and meaningful with better languages they sing everyday (yes, we all know there are many better designed languages). But for web, many still find PHP awesome especially for the fact that it gets the site ready and running in a short period of time.

Also, these guys are either hypocrites or they are novices who have not studied the Nigerian market for web dev projects/jobs. Check web development jobs and projects out there, how many are PHP/WordPress/Laravel/Yii/Cake? Now, how many are are Ruby, Go, Java, etc.

For beginners
I'm writing this to advise beginners out there: if you are thinking career, don't follow the noise and noisemakers! Follow the market.

PHP wasn't originally designed to be like languages like C#. Check the history/purpose of PHP. However, if you want to talk about web development jobs in Nigeria today, PHP still tops the list, by far.

Hence, don't listen to those who "hate" PHP yet they feed themselves and family with PHP jobs.

The truth is if you are starting out with programming, I would suggest trying to understand programming itself. Python has always been a good choice to start with giving that it is relatively easy to understand. Java is a kinda cumbersome but will force you to think like a developer. PHP is scattered and more forgiving than Java.

Understanding programming will make it easy for you to pick a new language and learn it faster. Programming languages are just tools.

Knowing that a spanner is used to loosen nuts doesn't make you a mechanic; instead, knowing how to loosen nuts (with d right spanner, knowing whether to turn CW or CCW, if to add lubricants, etc.) is what mames you a mechanic.

Similarly, programming languages are just like different types of spanners. Knowing which and how to use them is what makes you a programmer.

After you've understood programming to some extent (not programming languages).... pick next language based on three things: market demand, purpose, future.

Those who say you should start learning web development with Go programming language are only talking based on awesomeness and future of the language (both of which they don't even know about. They only read and start ranting, like me?).


In conclusion,

I talk based on purpose, MARKET DEMAND, and near future.

I agree with them that PHP isn't well designed. I personally hate jumping between HTML and PHP, although MVC and other principles helped me understand how to separate even up to 99% of my PHP codes from HTML markup. Other bad stuff many real guru in programming talk about PHP are things many junior developers don't even clearly grasp why they are bad, let alone the noise makers.

This post is getting long and mixed up... Let me "come and be going" abeg. .

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ZestAri:


Granted, PHP isn't one of the best designed or CCW, .


In conclusion,

I talk based on purpose, MARKET DEMAND, and near future.

I agree with them that PHP isn't well designed. I personally hate jumping between HTML and PHP, although MVC and other principles helped me understand how to separate even up to 99% of my PHP codes from HTML markup. Other bad stuff many real guru in programming talk about PHP are things many junior developers don't even clearly grasp why they are bad, let alone the noise makers.

This post is getting long and mixed up... Let me "come and be going" abeg. .

Thank you for sharing this awesome post... I've had a lot of people mumur about PHP being bad and when I ask why they don't really have anything to say...PHP is just a language that is un-strict by nature...it allows you the possibility to write code in different ways, the real problem is most of those people complaining learnt bad PHP syntax and follow bad conventions so they tend to complain when they compare it to another language (e.g Python).

Personally, I planned to move to the MEAN stack/Go/Scala for developing my new apps and maintain old apps in PHP or use PHP for small projects and that is because these languages (especially Go) makes it super easy to collaborate and scale not because I am too lazy to write clean PHP code or too scared to debug PHP apps.

On the other hand:
I've got a friend, Biola (the lead developer at Tuteria NG) who is a Python developer that never stops criticizing PHP at any little chance he gets or any mistake you make (writing PHP) however I noticed Biola only knows the theoretical part of PHP (some of it) and couldn't even do much with PHP, probably echo some stuff out in the browser or basic database transactions at most but he has some legit reasons why PHP shouldn't be used for Enterprise apps. We argued over slack while collaborating on a project that used PHP and Python and the chat always makes me laugh because he'd just share a link to some posts that discourages PHP or to an awesome Python app and tell me "PHP can't do this"...all I tell people like these is to buy the book PHP Beyond The Web by Rob Aley read and practice then look back on your criticis against the language.

Before Pythonistas flood this thread with arguments, do remember that PHP >7.* Is proven to be faster than Python.

DanielTheGeek:

Personally, I planned to move to the MEAN stack/Go/Scala for developing my new apps and maintain old apps in PHP or use PHP for small projects and that is because these languages (especially Go) makes it super easy to collaborate and scale not because I am too lazy to write clean PHP code or too scared to debug PHP apps.

I believe your plan to move to MEAN stack is a smart one

MEAN? Mee too
Recently I started learning to cross over to the server and DB with NodeJS. I decided I must learn MEAN stack when I started playing around with AJAX/PHP. It felt (and still feels) awesome how I could send data to server, process it, fetch data from database and work with the resulting data/response async all without annoying PAGE RELOAD.

I have this simple app, an ebook/bible reader app (not 100% completed yet) that fetches a complete book, chapter or verses (depending on what u tap) and display the portion of the Bible aaync....

If I can progress faster with MEAN, the app may be the last PERSONAL project I would want to do with PHP. I have not known everything in PHP (not even close), but, I've got to that level I have to invest more time on new things.

The fastest way to learn programming (from my learning experiences) is by trying to build something. But to build something "neat", learning from experts tutorials is indispensable, especially learning design patterns and advanced tricks.

By the way, I remember how it took me 3 days trying to understand Closure in JavaScript.... Unbelievable, but true! Call me dull brain if you like

ZestAri:


I believe your plan to move to MEAN stack is a smart one

MEAN? Mee too
Recently I started learning to cross over to the server and DB wSH< NodeJS. I decided I must learn MEAN stack when I started playing around wSH< AJAX/PHP. It felt (and still feels) awesome how I could send data to server, process it, fetch data from database and work wSH< the resulting data/response async all wSH<out annoying PAGE RELOAD.

I have this simple app, an ebook/bible reader app (not 100% completed yet) that fetches a complete book, chapter or verses (depending on what u tap) and display the portion of the Bible aaync....

If I can progress faster wSH< MEAN, the app may be the last PERSONAL project I would want to do wSH< PHP. I have not known everything in PHP (not even close), but, I've got to that level I have to invest more time on new things.

The fastest way to learn programming (from my learning experiences) is by trying to build something. But to build something "neat", learning from experts tutorials is indispensable, especially learning design patterns and advanced tricks.

By the way, I remember how it took me 3 days trying to understand Closure in JavaScript.... Unbelievable, but true! Call me dull brain if you like

Lol on Closures... You said it all fam. Another big problem we have In the dev zone is everyone wanting to rebuild the wheel..jeez, it's 2017, you only do that when the wheel is broken!

ZestAri:


I believe your plan to move to MEAN stack is a smart one

MEAN? Mee too
Recently I started learning to cross over to the server and DB with NodeJS. I decided I must learn MEAN stack when I started playing around with AJAX/PHP. It felt (and still feels) awesome how I could send data to server, process it, fetch data from database and work with the resulting data/response async all without annoying PAGE RELOAD.

I have this simple app, an ebook/bible reader app (not 100% completed yet) that fetches a complete book, chapter or verses (depending on what u tap) and display the portion of the Bible aaync....

If I can progress faster with MEAN, the app may be the last PERSONAL project I would want to do with PHP. I have not known everything in PHP (not even close), but, I've got to that level I have to invest more time on new things.

The fastest way to learn programming (from my learning experiences) is by trying to build something. But to build something "neat", learning from experts tutorials is indispensable, especially learning design patterns and advanced tricks.

By the way, I remember how it took me 3 days trying to understand Closure in JavaScript.... Unbelievable, but true! Call me dull brain if you like

How did u succeed to understand that cos right now...my brain is on freeze mode.

Can you help a brother out?

Csami:


How did u succeed to understand that cos right now...my brain is on freeze mode.

Can you help a brother out?

AJAX or NodeJS? If AJAX, it is as easy as spending your 30mins hour to learn all the basics. Learn AJAX here: https://www.w3schools.com/xml/ajax_intro.asp

ZestAri:


AJAX or NodeJS? If AJAX, it is as easy as spending your 30mins hour to learn all the basics. Learn AJAX here: https://www.w3schools.com/xml/ajax_intro.asp

In fact, save your energy. Use jQuery. Here: https://www.w3schools.com/jquery/jquery_ajax_intro.asp

Csami:


How did u succeed to understand that cos right now...my brain is on freeze mode.

Can you help a brother out?

Google Javascript: the good parts by Douglas Crockford and any book by Nicholas Zahas.

thing is, no matter the language a good programmer will write good code and a bad programmer bad code. That is why you should (as you said) learn [url=teachyourselfcs.com]programming[/url] before learning a programming language. Some languages make it easy to write bad code though.

My $0.02

ZestAri:


AJAX or NodeJS? If AJAX, it is as easy as spending your 30mins hour to learn all the basics. Learn AJAX here: https://www.w3schools.com/xml/ajax_intro.asp

I'm talking about having no idea about JavaScript. How do I go about it?

Conversations like this are always illuminating.

Any Nigerian developer who hates PHP should be interviewed. PHP has paid most of us more than any other language.

HOWEVER...

On the other fence of php developers are people who do everything with PHP. They learn php, try to learn other languages, bang their heads against the wall, and restrict themselves to PHP. These are the guys we keep trying to save!!!

Learning just PHP and insisting it meets all your needs as a programmer is ridiculous. Just like learning only Java and insisting its the best is ridiculous. This is why its as if there's a stigma against PHP developers. But the stigma is actually against the many, many, many Nigerian developers out there whose sole programming weapon is PHP.

I personally am one of those who encourage this stigma.

Csami:


I'm talking about having no idea about JavaScript. How do I go about it?

go to YouTube, search for the new boston, go to dere playlists and download javascript tutorial, once you're done with the tutorial, try to watch more tutorials so you can have wide view, then download projects on js

bjhaid:
go to YouTube, search for the new boston, go to dere playlists and download javascript tutorial, once you're done with the tutorial, try to watch more tutorials so you can have wide view, then download projects on js

Thanks

DanielTheGeek:


Thank you for sharing this awesome post... I've had a lot of people mumur about PHP being bad and when I ask why they don't really have anything to say...PHP is just a language that is un-strict by nature...it allows you the possibility to write code in different ways, the real problem is most of those people complaining learnt bad PHP syntax and follow bad conventions so they tend to complain when they compare it to another language (e.g Python).

Personally, I planned to move to the MEAN stack/Go/Scala for developing my new apps and maintain old apps in PHP or use PHP for small projects and that is because these languages (especially Go) makes it super easy to collaborate and scale not because I am too lazy to write clean PHP code or too scared to debug PHP apps.

On the other hand:
I've got a friend, Biola (the lead developer at Tuteria NG) who is a Python developer that never stops criticizing PHP at any little chance he gets or any mistake you make (writing PHP) however I noticed Biola only knows the theoretical part of PHP (some of it) and couldn't even do much with PHP, probably echo some stuff out in the browser or basic database transactions at most but he has some legit reasons why PHP shouldn't be used for Enterprise apps. We argued over slack while collaborating on a project that used PHP and Python and the chat always makes me laugh because he'd just share a link to some posts that discourages PHP or to an awesome Python app and tell me "PHP can't do this"...all I tell people like these is to buy the book PHP Beyond The Web by Rob Aley read and practice then look back on your criticis against the language.

Before Pythonistas flood this thread with arguments, do remember that PHP >7.* Is proven to be faster than Python.

Python can run on other interpreters other than the default interpreter E.G cpython, pypy

melodyogonna:
Python can run on other interpreters other than the default interpreter E.G cpython, pypy

Good for you man. Just use what works for you and what you feel is the best tool for the job.

larisoft:
Conversations like this are always illuminating.

Any Nigerian developer who hates PHP should be interviewed. PHP has paid most of us more than any other language.

HOWEVER...

On the other fence of php developers are people who do everything with PHP. They learn php, try to learn other languages, bang their heads against the wall, and restrict themselves to PHP. These are the guys we keep trying to save!!!

Learning just PHP and insisting it meets all your needs as a programmer is ridiculous. Just like learning only Java and insisting its the best is ridiculous. This is why its as if there's a stigma against PHP developers. But the stigma is actually against the many, many, many Nigerian developers out there whose sole programming weapon is PHP.

I personally am one of those who encourage this stigma.

Well, quite true... I totally agree with the fact that "Man shall not live by bread PHP alone" but what is this stigma for, it is totally not needed, anyone who knows only Python or JavaScript isn't stigmatized...in fact people see them as "awesome devs" because they are usually more productive...Even Facebook PHP developers brag about use a lot of languages in combination with PHP and even have their own dialect of the language...Some languages can be used on it's own and it will suite almost all your needs, e.g: JavaScript...but developers should know when and when not to use PHP in particular but that doesn't call for the developer being stigmatized.

DanielTheGeek:


Good for you man. Just use what works for you and what you feel is the best tool for the job.

What i actually want to ask is . . . . . which python interpreter was benchmarked with php 7 to prove that it (Php 7) was faster??

Wow, awesome thread bro, very insightful. PHP is really awesome for me, although I still have a lot to learn about this languages but so far..it's been the best thing that happened to the web world

Last thing I will ever do is write a single line of php code

ToyinDipo:
Last thing I will ever do is write a single line of php code

You don't need to, but you will always make use of stuffs created with it.

Php has made me so popular within short period of time, no amount of discouragement will make me abandon php , making cool cash through programming in Nigeria can only b achieve with php

Sirolad:

You don't need to, but you will always make use of stuffs created with it.

Sparingly maybe.

ToyinDipo:
Last thing I will ever do is write a single line of php code

You don't have to, especially if you wrote some bad PHP program before and it burnt down your house.

In fact, there are too many PHP developers out there. The lesser the better for the jobs.

As for me, I will not leave PHP until PHP demand dies in job market. And, of course, I dont't code in PHP alone. There is usually this assumption as though those who know PHP don't know other languages.

I started with C and C++ by the way, although I didn't go deep into any of the two. Currently, I code in Java, JavaScript, PHP, and recently, C# as well, although I know PHP more than I know those 3.

I also encourage those who code in PHP to learn other languages, especially better languages with promising future.

Alternatively, you can go about beating your chest you won't write a line of PHP.... PHP community won't care anyway.

For the jobs and getting the website up and running quickly, PHP is still a good option here in Nigeria

ZestAri:


You don't have to, especially if you wrote some bad PHP program before and it burnt down your house.

In fact, there are too many PHP developers out there. The lesser the better for the jobs.

As for me, I will not leave PHP until PHP demand dies in job market. And, of course, I dont't code in PHP alone. There is usually this assumption as though those who know PHP don't know other languages.

I started with C and C++ by the way, although I didn't go deep into any of the two. Currently, I code in Java, JavaScript, PHP, and recently, C# as well, although I know PHP more than I know those 3.

I also encourage those who code in PHP to learn other languages, especially better languages with promising future.

Alternatively, you can go about beating your chest you won't write a line of PHP.... PHP community won't care anyway.

For the jobs and getting the website up and running quickly, PHP is still a good option here in Nigeria

I haven't written a single line of php code, how about that?
Previous Php developers that I have enshrined into proper ways of writing Java code, today don't ever want to write Php code again

ToyinDipo:

I haven't written a single line of php code, how about that?
Previous Php developers that I have enshrined into proper ways of writing Java code, today don't ever want to write Php code again

Lol. Congratulations! Please if you have PHP jobs coming your way help a brother out.

But, if you have never written a line of PHP before, how did you know so much about PHP? Unless you are saying you know PHP is terrible because you hear other say it? Just curious

ToyinDipo:

I haven't written a single line of php code, how about that?
Previous Php developers that I have enshrined into proper ways of writing Java code, today don't ever want to write Php code again

One more thing, which do you use for web development? Java?

ToyinDipo:
Last thing I will ever do is write a single line of php code

Lool! Why? Used it once for a project at school, not my favourite but not that bad

ZestAri:


Lol. Congratulations! Please if you have PHP jobs coming your way help a brother out.

But, if you have never written a line of PHP before, how did you know so much about PHP? Unless you are saying you know PHP is terrible because you hear other say it? Just curious

I have studied it before, but I couldn't stand coding with it

ZestAri:


One more thing, which do you use for web development? Java?

Yes I do

ibkayee:

Lool! Why? Used it once for a project at school, not my favourite but not that bad

Haha, it isn't very structured, and it doesn't constrain how people write it
It's a bit like Javascript, where there are no data structures

ToyinDipo:

Haha, it isn't very structured, and it doesn't constrain how people write it
It's a bit like Javascript, where there are no data structures

There are extensions that provide them or you could use arrays but fair enough