tundexweb:

I agree with u that the apostle stated that the gentile brethren need not to be circumcise by the jewish law.Now,where in the scripture did they explicitly state that the sabath must/should be sunday?

When is the first day of the week which the Apostles always met to break bread?

DoctorAlien assumed it was on the Sabbath, why wasn't it called Sabbath like it was always called? Why Change it the The Lord's Day?

In Acts of The Apostles, we see Churches gathering in Peoples homes while they were many Synagogues for them to go to, why did separate themselves and worship at home?

Why are you hung up on Saturday's worship which to you is changed, but not so interested in other changes made like Circumcision?
Is there something we are missing?

If you want to fight for the law, shouldn't you fight it all?

analice107,

The epistle of Paul to the Romans is referred to as his magnum opus in theology. While I agree, I also think that if there is any epistle of Paul which merits to be called his "first runner-up magnum opus", it is his epistle to the Galatians. Contained in this epistle is first class, intricate theology. As such, it is very(very!) easy to misunderstand Paul's arguments in his epistle to the Galatians. Peter, aware of how easy it is to misinterpret Paul's intricate arguments in his epistles, gave us a warning before hand:

"...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles ... in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Pet. 3:15-16

As an example: "For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Rom. 2:13

How do you deal with that verse?

analice107,
So do you really want me to start on Paul's argument about the Law in Galatians?

analice107:

The Word 'Therefore' in that context means, 'Considering all that Christ has now done, do not allow any one like DoctorAlien (lol)or the JW pull you back into what Christ has freed you from. Because, what the Law taught in the past was a Shadow of what Christ will do and now it's done'. That's the meaning of 'Therefore' in Colo 2:16.


Cc: TheUmbra, Processor1. i need help here.

I can hardly piece together what you both are trying to pass across.

DoctorAlien:


I must say that it is with great concern in my heart for the cause of the Truth that I seek to expound on these things, and not for anything else. Worship is the bone of contention in this Great Controversy between good and evil. And there is only one word which perfectly summarizes worship; and that word is "OBEDIENCE". This all about obeying GOD. You must understand, dear, that Satan wants to deceive us into disobeying GOD. "DECEIVE" is the key word.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life..." Rev 22:14

I hope you realize that the gathering on Sundays or Saturdays we do is not what constitute worship? Our worship to God is how we conduct ourselves. How we live our lives in our individual spaces, how we respond and react to issues and other humans around us. Worship is our entire being.

Talking, dressing, communication, sex life, eating and drinking habitexhour commitments and obligations, our preoccupations, this is how we worship God.

It is likened to what The Master said to the woman by the Well in Samaria, 'You don't need to go to Jerusalem to worship God, He is a Spirit so can be worshiped everywhere and any where'.

Why we gather together is to strengthen and exhort one another. Share our faith, and give Testimonies to the deeds of Christ.

TheUmbra:

I can hardly piece together what you both are trying to pass across.

Hey. Welcome.
Is sunday fellowship a sin?
Is everyone fellowshipping on Sunday sinning?
Did the Apostles worshipped or fellowshipped on Saturday or sunday?
this is a lil bit.

DoctorAlien:
analice107,

So do you really want me to start on Paul's argument about the Law in Galatians?

Brother, why are we having this discussion? You can't dissuade me and i can't you, why not we leave this? it's unproductive.

analice107:

Brother, why are we having this discussion? You can't dissuade me and i can't you, why not we leave this? it's unproductive.

I see. Stay blessed.

But, analice107, I think you can represent my argument better with the question "Is breaking the Sabbath a sin?" than you do with the question "is Sunday fellowship a sin?"

analice107:

When is the first day of the week which the Apostles always met to break bread?

The Apostles always met to break bread,do you also break bread in your church on sunday or worship?

why wasn't it called Sabbath like it was always called? Why Change it the The Lord's Day?

And this is another problem with early christianity,in order to be seperated from judaism,the Lord's day which God and Jesus did not commanded was instituted
to abrogate the sabath day which was commanded by God(in the book u believe to be God's word) to be strictly obeyed.

Why are you hung up on Saturday's worship which to you is changed, but not so interested in other changes made like Circumcision?

I am not hung up on saturday's worship,simple.

Is there something we are missing?

What you and so many christians are missing is that you don't know that sunday as the day of worship is historically paganish and also the tradition of men.

analice107:

The question should be why meet on another day different from the Sabbath day to strengthen the brethren? Why choose the First Day of the Week?

why wouldn't they? there is no laid down law saying they must meet on the Sabbath.. it stated that they met on the first day of the week.. nothing states that their meeting holds any significance to what the Sabbath day should be

I believe, going by the Scriptures that the first day of week became a special day for the Apostles, and if it was wrong for them to meet, the Holy Spirit would've expressly objected to it, but He didn't.

the first day of the week is special to everyone.. nothing states that it must be a sabbath

And, if we are to tow this line of thought, we'd go the way of the Pharisees calling Jesus a heretic and a law breaker because 95% of Jesus' persecution by the Jews was because he worked on Sabbath days as opposed to the Jewish dictates. Jesus never separated any one particular day for anything specific work. He worked on Sabbath days, travelled on Sabbath days, when he was asked why, he said the Sabbath is made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Do we even understand what that statement means?

yes.. but that doesn't relate to the Sabbath being shifted from Saturday to sunday.. Jewish tradition was that no one should work on the Sabbath day.. they held the day as sacred.. not like normal days.. but regarding the Sabbath as another day entirely is a different thing

And in Colossians 2:16-17 the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Paul said;
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Pls lets concentrate on WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME and find out what he really means and how we should not handle these things.
Because, the way circumcision was treated in the Old Testament by the Jews which became differently handled by the Christians is the same way the Sabbath was and is being handled by Christians.

The Jews insisted Circumcision must be done by cutting off the foreskin, but the Holy Spirit says, not necessarily, it must be the circumcision of the Heart.

Why are we so hung on the Sabbath days but not on Circumcision or eating strangled animals?

ok.. so is it ok if i consider friday or Wednesday my Sabbath and not Sunday?

Wilgrea7:

why wouldn't they? there is no laid down law saying they must meet on the Sabbath.. it stated that they met on the first day of the week.. nothing states that their meeting holds any significance to what the Sabbath day should be

the first day of the week is special to everyone.. nothing states that it must be a sabbath


yes.. but that doesn't relate to the Sabbath being shifted from Saturday to sunday.. Jewish tradition was that no one should work on the Sabbath day.. they held the day as sacred.. not like normal days.. but regarding the Sabbath as another day entirely is a different thing

ok.. so is it ok if i consider friday or Wednesday my Sabbath and not Sunday?

Wilgrea7:

why wouldn't they? there is no laid down law saying they must meet on the Sabbath.. it stated that they met on the first day of the week.. nothing states that their meeting holds any significance to what the Sabbath day should be

After the resurrection of Christ, Sunday which was the day he resurrected, became a significant day for the Apostles, so it was chosen to be a meeting and fellowship a day. If it was a big deal to them, they would've continued meeting for fellowships on Saturdays not Sundays.

Apostle always went to the Synagogues to share the Word with the Jews, but fellowships were held in people's homes, shouldn't that tell us that they were no longer together?

Wilgrea7:

the first day of the week is special to everyone.. nothing states that it must be a sabbath

Is it? then why are we having this argument?

Wilgrea7:

yes.. but that doesn't relate to the Sabbath being shifted from Saturday to sunday.. Jewish tradition was that no one should work on the Sabbath day.. they held the day as sacred.. not like normal days.. but regarding the Sabbath as another day entirely is a different thing

Are we Jews? Ask yourself why the Jewish Apostles who practiced that tradition well and understood it's tenets before us, had to separate themselves from the synagogues's fellowship to individual homes. Was that what Jehovah commanded the Jews to do?
I still asked, why the Apostles chose the first day of the week to meet to break bread? couldn't they have just continued with the already laid down Jewish traditions of gathering in the Synagogue and breaking the bread there?

Wilgrea7:

ok.. so is it ok if i consider friday or Wednesday my Sabbath and not Sunday?

I go to church everyday of the week, from January to December, except if something comes up. Are all the days of the week Sabbath to me?

I go to church 2ice in a day, morning and evening to pray for the body of Christ and for the Nation, Are all these days sundays to me?

tundexweb:

The Apostles always met to break bread,do you also break bread in your church on sunday or worship?

And this is another problem with early christianity,in order to be seperated from judaism,the Lord's day which God and Jesus did not commanded was instituted
to abrogate the sabath day which was commanded by God(in the book u believe to be God's word) to be strictly obeyed.

I am not hung up on saturday's worship,simple.


What you and so many christians are missing is that you don't know that sunday as the day of worship is historically paganish and also the tradition of men.

I will respond to only one point here.
quote author=tundexweb post=60006406]
What you and so many christians are missing is that you don't know that sunday as the day of worship is historically paganish and also the tradition of men[/quote]
Yeah, i was waiting for you go get here. I know this is where you were driving to.

Now listen, God created everyday, every single day. The pagans who worahipped the Constellations didn't create the heavenly bodies neither did they create the days they chose to worship.

If we must go by your logic, we shouldn't also fellowship on Saturdays or have you sudenly forgotten that Saturday was a day Saturn is worshipped?

Can't you see Saturn in SATURDAY? (SATURN'S DAY)

Guy, days of worship are a shadow of things to come. the real thing is here now.

Pls lets preach love, forgiveness, patience, kindness, Peace, Temperance and giving to others. these are the things Christ died to restore not the days of worship.

DoctorAlien:
But, analice107, I think you can represent my argument better with the question "Is breaking the Sabbath a sin?" than you do with the question "is Sunday fellowship a sin?"

Bros i'm done here.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians:2:16
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Colossians:2:17

The Sabbath is a shadow of what to come. The real thing is here. Communion with the Holy Spirit everyday, anywhere anytime.

I don't want to prolong this any longer due to the type of phone I am using and some reasons best known to me but i want to talk about the below.

Pls lets preach love, forgiveness, patience, kindness, Peace, Temperance and giving to others. these are the things Christ died to restore not the days of worship.

If you state that Jesus died or was killed in the process of restoring the aforementioned,you are likely right,but if you meant that he died for the sins of humanity or selected few,you are seemingly wrong because Jesus(according to the scripture) stated that if you forgive others,God will forgive you as well,we can't just based the atonement teachings(which is among the basics of christianity) on what some people said and not what Jesus said himself.
P.S:I am sorry if my submission is offensive to you or what you stand for.

analice107:

The Word 'Therefore' in that context means, 'Considering all that Christ has now done, do not allow any one like DoctorAlien (lol)or the JW pull you back into what Christ has freed you from. Because, what the Law taught in the past was a Shadow of what Christ will do and now it's done'. That's the meaning of 'Therefore' in Colo 2:16.


Cc: TheUmbra, Processor1. i need help here.

The fourth commandment which talks about the Sabbath is part of the Moral Law (Law of Liberty), and can not be a shadow of anything.
The ceremonial laws which talks about festivals, rites, meats and drink is pointing to the sacrifice Jesus came to make. It is the ceremonial law that talks about the passover. And you know pretty well that passover is the real shadow of the sacrifice Jesus made in calvary.
You can not chisel out the 4th commandment out of the Ten. The same Law that says "thou shall not kill" is the same Law that states "remember the Sabbath".
Or are we to say "thou shall not kill" is also no longer applicable?
Revelation 11:19: "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant..."
In the above verse, John saw God's Temple opened in heaven. What did he see inside it? The Ark of Covenant. And what would you find inside this Ark? The two table stone of the Law including that which concerns keeping of the Sabbath.
This is to tell you it's for eternity.
And besides, throughout the NT, after the ascension of Jesus, all the Apostles kept the Sabbath according to the Law. The Catholic church actually instituted the observance of sunday, independent of the Scripture, don't rob Rome of their glory. They actually took the credit

analice107:

Bros i'm done here.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians:2:16
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Colossians:2:17

The Sabbath is a shadow of what to come. The real thing is here. Communion with the Holy Spirit everyday, anywhere anytime.

You mentioned meats and drinks and sabbaths and you think this sabbaths refers to the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment? The sabbath days being referred to here are yearly festivals like passover and so on. The Sabbath of the Moral Law is just a single day and can never be referred to as "sabbath days" or "sabbaths". The fact that this verse mentioned meats and drinks in the same category with this "sabbaths" makes it obvious that it is referring to ceremonial laws not the Ten commandments.

Matthew 5:17-18 ...'Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you,Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.'
Jesus Himself said that NOTHING shall pass away from the law until heaven and earth itself passes away (Matthew 5:17-18).
Has heaven and earth passed away? No, therefore the law (ten commandments) STILL STAND. And we know Jesus was talking about the ten commandments, because if we take Matthew 5 in context, then we can see from verse 21 onwards, He is teaching about the law contained in the ten commandments.
What we can say though is that the New Testament CONFIRMS the sabbath day commandment as still active in Matthew 12:8; Matthew 24:20; Luke 23:56; Acts 16:13.

And from historical facts, we know how sunday sabbath came to be:
"For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the mysteries on the Sabbath [7th day - Saturday] of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome,on account of someancient tradition, have ceased to do this."(Socrates, Ecclesiastical History, b.5, ch.22, found in Nicene and Post-Nicene fathers)
It is clearly evident from the New Testament itself (Acts 16:13, Matthew 28:1, Luke 23:56), and historical writings like above, that the true believers and followers of Jesus Christ kept the 7th day sabbath as per the 4th commandment.

Bro
There's no special day in Gods sight.
Monday Tuesday Saturday or Sunday are all same to Him.
Just like Yesterday Today and Tommorow are Present before Him.
He's the God of NOW not a particular time/period.

analice107:

Hey. Welcome.

Is sunday fellowship a sin?

Is everyone fellowshipping on Sunday sinning?

Did the Apostles worshipped or fellowshipped on Saturday or sunday?

this is a lil bit.

Of course, Sunday fellowship isn't a sin. But failing to observe the Sabbath is. But there's a confusion or mixup which day between Saturday and Sunday constitutes the Sabbath.

The Jews are the custodians of the Law and to them it is Saturday. However, for the gentiles who adopted Christianity, they chose Sunday (which is accepted by GOD as a day set apart for HIM)

otr1:

You mentioned meats and drinks and sabbaths and you think this sabbaths refers to the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment? The sabbath days being referred to here are yearly festivals like passover and so on. The Sabbath of the Moral Law is just a single day and can never be referred to as "sabbath days" or "sabbaths". The fact that this verse mentioned meats and drinks in the same category with this "sabbaths" makes it obvious that it is referring to ceremonial laws not the Ten commandments.

Matthew 5:17-18 ...'Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you,Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.'
Jesus Himself said that NOTHING shall pass away from the law until heaven and earth itself passes away (Matthew 5:17-18).
Has heaven and earth passed away? No, therefore the law (ten commandments) STILL STAND. And we know Jesus was talking about the ten commandments, because if we take Matthew 5 in context, then we can see from verse 21 onwards, He is teaching about the law contained in the ten commandments.
What we can say though is that the New Testament CONFIRMS the sabbath day commandment as still active in Matthew 12:8; Matthew 24:20; Luke 23:56; Acts 16:13.

And from historical facts, we know how sunday sabbath came to be:
"For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the mysteries on the Sabbath [7th day - Saturday] of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome,on account of someancient tradition, have ceased to do this."(Socrates, Ecclesiastical History, b.5, ch.22, found in Nicene and Post-Nicene fathers)
It is clearly evident from the New Testament itself (Acts 16:13, Matthew 28:1, Luke 23:56), and historical writings like above, that the true believers and followers of Jesus Christ kept the 7th day sabbath as per the 4th commandment.

Bros, if we spend as much time teaching Christians to know what Pride is, and to avoid it, if we teach against Lust, Anger, Arrogance, bitterness, revenge, envy, unforgiveness, lasciviousness, licentiousness, gossip, corruption, hatred, and the rest of these spirits which have invaded the lives of believers and rendered them spiritually redundant, they would be better Christians than waste quality time arguing which days to worship or not.

Worship was restricted to the Temple by the Jews, when Jesus came, what did he say? Worship God everywhere and anywhere, so also with days. Worship or fellowship with God everyday and anyway.

You are arguing about days of worship, but refuse to see that God has not rejected us. The Holy Spirit is more alive now than ever, he reveals Himself through the revelations of His words. Miracles are happening everyday.

TheUmbra:


Of course, Sunday fellowship isn't a sin. But failing to observe the Sabbath is. But there's a confusion or mixup which day between Saturday and Sunday constitutes the Sabbath.

The Jews are the custodians of the Law and to them it is Saturday. However, for the gentiles who adopted Christianity, they chose Sunday (which is accepted by GOD as a day set apart for HIM)

I have been saying this till all my spittle is gone.

Thanks for honouring the mention.

Mister Man it was a simple request. Can you provide any example of anyone being killed for keeping the sabbath in European history.

A few months ago I had a chat with someone about the Waldensians, I don't know if it was you. Maybe it wasn't but, just like you, the person was full of lies about the Waldensians. Perhaps what you do not realise is that the Waldensians still exist and they can tell you their history.

abaptism, or Sabbath instead of Sunday!).

Therefore, the Waldensians did not keep the Sabbath (in the sense of Saturday instead of Sunday) and were not guardians of the "Sabbath Truth” as somebody calls it. The Waldensians never followed the Seventh-day Adventist’s Sabbath but they followed more Paul in Romans 14,5-8.

http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/studies/waldenses.html

SDA are known for this lie and the Waldensians are constantly having to distance themselves and refute any connection you claim to have Ruth them.


So Waldensians were not killed for keeping any sabbath and my question still stands...

Who did the Catholic Church kill for keeping sabbath?

DoctorAlien:


Have you heard about the Sabbath-keeping Christians, including the Waldensians who were considered heretics, and how much the Catholic church persecuted and killed them? The Catholic church does not deny it:

"The church may by divine right confiscate property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out." Public Ecclesiatical, Vol. 2, p.142.

"A heretic merits the pains of fire....By the Gospel, the canons, the civil law, and customs, heretics must be burned." The American Textbook of Popery, p.164(quoting from the "Directory of Inquisitors" ) and also Pope Marcellus' Decrees, Corpus Juris Canonici, part 2, chap. 18.

DoctorAlien:


You want to troll? I can't indulge you. I've successfully shattered your claims that Jesus might have given men the authority to change GOD's commandments(Matt. 5:19).

Mister man you have been talking rubbish and spreading lies from the beginning of this thread till now.

A simple question, what is the context of Jesus saying anything they loosed will be loosed in heaven and anything they bound will he bound in heaven?
How does anything you've said account for the fact that circumcision was deemed unnecessary by Paul? Wasn't it part of gods commandment?

Simple question: who in history was killed for keeping your precious sabbath. You can't answer.


I know what manner of spirit you are. You carry the spirit of contention that gives no peace, it was born out of the Protestant reformation and was a spirit that led to wars and destruction. And till today all it does is seeking wars and contention. And lies to bolster strife.
You can provide no evidence but can only lie. And your motivation is hatred. Don't be deceived it is not merely hatred for the Catholic Church. Catholic Church is just then convenient object onto which you can project the hatred on your soul. Without the Catholic Church that hatred would still be there, you'd just have to find something else to project it onto.

PastorAIO:




I know what manner of spirit you are. You carry the spirit of contention that gives no peace, it was born out of the Protestant reformation and was a spirit that led to wars and destruction. And till today all it does is seeking wars and contention. And lies to bolster strife.
You can provide no evidence but can only lie. And your motivation is hatred. Don't be deceived it is not merely hatred for the Catholic Church. Catholic Church is just then convenient object onto which you can project the hatred on your soul. Without the Catholic Church that hatred would still be there, you'd just have to find something else to project it onto.

I thought I am the only one that has noticed this about the OP and some other fanatics here.

The ones disagreeing with him on this particular thread are merely doing so because what he is saying is different from what they have been indoctrinated to believe.
Otherwise you would have seen them in action especially one particular female moniker

analice107:


I go to church everyday of the week, from January to December, except if something comes up. Are all the days of the week Sabbath to me?

I go to church 2ice in a day, morning and evening to pray for the body of Christ and for the Nation, Are all these days sundays to me?

this is what I've been waiting to hear.. so you agree that the Sabbath is not effective for non-jews and any day can be regarded as the Sabbath for a non-jew

TheUmbra:


Of course, Sunday fellowship isn't a sin. But failing to observe the Sabbath is. But there's a confusion or mixup which day between Saturday and Sunday constitutes the Sabbath.

The Jews are the custodians of the Law and to them it is Saturday. However, for the gentiles who adopted Christianity, they chose Sunday (which is accepted by GOD as a day set apart for HIM)

Where did GOD indicate that He accepted Sunday as the Sabbath day? I'm particularly interested because GOD blessed Saturday, and I won't like to miss that blessing by keeping a day which He did not bless. Did He bless Sunday too? Or has He transferred the blessing from Saturday to Sunday?

PASTORAIO,

First, I'll let the Catholic church define heresy and who a heretic is for us. I'll then proceed to show what the Catholic church did to heretics.

"In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning. Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic. Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy; previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church; external profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate; outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic Church has actually proposed as revealed by God; and the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative." -Catholic dictionary in Catholicculture.org

PASTORAIO,

Therefore, Seventh-day sabbath keepers were considered heretics by the catholic church. Let's see how the catholic church dealt with heretics:

“When confronted with heresy, she (Catholic Church) does not content herself with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture.” — The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism, p 182-183.

"This due punishment was death by fire for th obstinate and imprisonment for life for the penitents." (Catholic Enyclopedia, Vol. VI, pg.797).

"The burning of heretics was first decreed in the eleventh century. The synod of Verona (1184) imposed on bishops the duty to search out heretics in their dioceses and to hand them over to the secular power. Other synods and the fourth Lateran Council (1215), under Pope Innocent III, repeated and enforced this decree, especially the synod of Tolouse (1229) which established inquisitors in every parish. Every one was bound to denounce heretics, the names of witnesses were kept secret; after 1243, when Innocent IV sanctioned the laws of Emperor Frederick II and of Louis IX against heretics, torture was applied in trials; the guiltily persons were delivered up to civil authorities and actually burnt at the stake...The present pope, Pius X (1909) has decreed the establishment in every diocese of a board of censors and of a vigilance committee whose functions are to find out and report on writings and persons tainted with the heresy of Modernism" (Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol. VII, pg. 260.)

Cc: PASTORAIO

Alll what you are writing here is nonsense . Pure nonsense.


I asked you a simple question: Where and when did you hear that the Catholic Church killed people for keeping the Saturday sabbath. You are still Dodging this simple question with a barrage of verbiage.


I never disputed with you that the church combatted heresies.

I never disputed with you that heretics were killed.

I disputed with you that anyone was killed for keeping the Saturday sabbath.
There were Jews living in Europe in the Middle Ages, were there not? Did they not keep Saturday sabbath?

All you've done is talk irrelevant rubbish and spout lies in the heads of the Waldensians.

You used Waldensians as example but Waldensians claim that they never observed Saturday sabbath. So where did you get that lie from?
How are we sure that the rest of your information is not from the same source as this your Waldensians lies?

How come you cannot even address my rebuttal to your claims about Waldensians? That means you're being nefarious and knowingly mendacious.

DoctorAlien




post=60033867:
PASTORAIO,

Therefore, Seventh-day sabbath keepers were considered heretics by the catholic church. Let's see how the catholic church dealt with heretics:

“When confronted with heresy, she (Catholic Church) does not content herself with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture.” — The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism, p 182-183.

"This due punishment was death by fire for th obstinate and imprisonment for life for the penitents." (Catholic Enyclopedia, Vol. VI, pg.797).

"Gregory IX cannot be accused of injustice, but he will ever be remembered as the pope who established the Inquisition as a permanent tribunal, and did his utmost to enforce everywhere the death penalty for heresy" (The Inquisition, pg. 132.)

Similar quotes abound. On whether the Waldensians did keep the Sabbath I will not comment. I have perceived a conspiracy to hide as much truth as is possible about the Waldensians. It became much more clearer when Wikipedia gave the founder of the Waldensians as Peter Waldo, who lived in the 12th century. This is despite numerous texts which confirm that the Waldensians were there even during Constantine's time, in the 3rd/4th century. Surely, part of this grand scheme is the infiltration of these Protestant groups by Catholic elements, I know. If you wish, therefore, to find out whether the Waldensians kept the Saturday Sabbath or not, do extensive research. Thank you.

PastorAIO:

Alll what you are writing here is nonsense . Pure nonsense.


I asked you a simple question: Where and when did you hear that the Catholic Church killed people for keeping the Saturday sabbath. You are still Dodging this simple question with a barrage of verbiage.


I never disputed with you that the church combatted heresies.

I never disputed with you that heretics were killed.

I disputed with you that anyone was killed for keeping the Saturday sabbath.
There were Jews living in Europe in the Middle Ages, were there not? Did they not keep Saturday sabbath?

By Catholic definition, a Jew may be classified as an apostate or perhaps an unbeliever, but not as a heretic.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

So, Saturday Sabbathkeeping Christians were considered, and are still considered as heretics by the catholic church, and they were dealt with as heretics, as I have shown above.