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Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Themandator: 1:13pm On Oct 04, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: "And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in." (John 20:5).... It is depth that makes the difference not who races first to the source. Jesus Christ gave his charge to his followers after his death and resurrection. He breathed the Holy spirit into them and gave them charge to forgive sin ... This he needed not explain how to do it because he already had demonstrated it severally. ...Confession in a box structure is not the greater works he told them they would do .... It is leading men and women to Christ ... He , Jesus Christ , never led anybody to Christ. Every other issue of life he showed us how to handle them spiritually. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:29pm On Oct 04, 2017 |
Themandator:those groups are made by the Christians there to aid information sharing and know each other especially in big parishes, they have little standing in the church, and are a largely eastern phenomenon and don't exist in my parish. 2. seem my submission about Bible reading was on point. 3. OK |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:18pm On Oct 04, 2017 |
Themandator:here it seem you are the one who ignored the immediate context. he actually ended the issue of the rich,he then moved on to judgements, before finally he says if you are happy sing praise but if any is sick call the presbyter let him be anointed and prayer over if he is in sin he will be forgiven, and for the avoidance of doubt as to how these prayer for forgiveness happens it says "THEREFORE confess your sins one to another". it is a pity it isn't clear to you since you have been taught in a 20th century church that has no links to historic Christianity but any 1st or 2nd or 3rd century Christian who the letter was addressed to will immediately understand it since confession of that nature is practiced in their churches, with their presbyter and bishop. it is true that Jesus forgave sin especially when he healed, and yes I agree that His apostles have the power to forgive sin that cause illnesses but John 20 doesn't say, If you are healing people whatever sins you forgive are forgiven. there is no limitation to that authority as you seem to artificially input, Jesus says whatsoever sin you forgive are forgiven... no but no "only during healing, that is your own idea and it is a modern day heresy are no early Christian interpreted the passage with such limits. moreso in 2cor 2:10 we see Paul making use of his authority to forgive with the authority and power of Jesus and it isn't about healing of physical illness. New Living Translation When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive whatever needs to be forgiven, I do so with Christ's authority for your benefit, Douay-Rheims Bible And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Themandator: 3:37pm On Oct 04, 2017 |
If you read the scripture you are citing carefully, you will realised that sins are forgiven upon application of the anointing oil. Other translations of the Bible uses faults .... Because the sins have already been taken care of by the prayers of the elders and the anointing oil...... Confess your faults ..ONE TO ANOTHER ...This is simple English that applies when you have more than two people involved. .... James , if he meant what you are implying , could have asked them to confess their sins or faults to him since he IS an apostle but he told them one to another .....THE ONE I HAVE OFFENDED IS THE WILL ENTITLED TO MY CONFESSION. Please Note that it wasn't all the time that Jesus healed that he forgave sins ... Not all infirmities are as a result of sin, some are tricks of the enemies ....."And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God." (Luk 13:10-13)............When sin was the root of the issue he forgave sins. If I wrong my wife , it would be foolish to run to a priest to confess. Nothing from the priest will bring respite ... The person I have offended is the one in a position to forgive me. Forgiveness brings deliverance otherwise it is not worth it ...Every forgiveness brings relieve to the one forgiven ....Every forgiveness brings deliverance including state pardon .. that Jesus demonstrated and ask them and us to continue in that tradition Thee is no scripture anywhere to back up what you do as confession in the Catholic Church.. it is mans personal idea and it is not scriptural. What you brought up in 2 Cor 2:10 still doesn't speak to your idea of forgiveness....Whomever forgive I also forgive ............."To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;" (2Cor 2:10)....... Until I forgive you for the wrong against me , it stays ............ If I have offended you you ought to know without my telling you Ubenedictus:
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Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Lihyunpark(m): 5:48pm On Oct 05, 2017 |
nwokoyepraise: ok let me answer you 1. You said jesus said he and the father are 1 but i want you to reconcile that verse with this..... Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. If truly jesus and his father were to be one (which i understand you to be saying they are one in thrinity) and if jesus were to say the father is greater than him that automatically relegates the facts that he is among the thrinity 2. You quoted mathew that some deciples worshiped jesus....you are reading from the Gospel "ACCORDING" to mathew you can not even tell me who wrote mattew.. And again was it jesus that told them to worship him?...if jesus really say so and people worship him and why did the bible say? Exodus 34:14 --for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. And again why did jesus say in Luke 4:8 that "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him ONLY.'" if jesus were to say this words himself that you should worship ONLY God and he claim earlier that the father is greater than him...i will like you to reconcile the two verses. 3. You shall not put your lord your God to test. Hmmmmmm satan tempted jesus...if jesus were to be God satan wont have have the Gut to carry jesus to the top mountain and promises to the him all the kingdom of the world and the Glory if he worshiped him...jesus fail the first test of being God by following satan to the highest mountain...secoundly if jesus were to be God how come satan promise him the kingdom of the world and its Glory if he bows for him? Is it not the same jesus prophesised that the Kingdom of the world would be on his shoulder and he will be a mighty God how can satan promise him the kingdom of this world if he already have it and he is God then lastly james 1:13 says.. When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt..anyone. Jesus was tempted and he can never be God. Bro i prayer God open your eyes to the truth..."you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" shalom! |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Lihyunpark(m): 5:51pm On Oct 05, 2017 |
irynterri:ok. So who do you worship? |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by bloodofthelamb(m): 10:27pm On Oct 05, 2017 |
WHO IS CHRIST JESUS IN YOUR OWN UNDERSTAND...IS JESUS A CREATED BEING. PLS BACK IT UP WITH THE word OF GOD. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by irynterri(f): 10:42pm On Oct 05, 2017 |
Lihyunpark:God the Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit,it is against the Catholic faith to worship any other thing aside from the above listed |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by shomb: 7:09am On Oct 06, 2017 |
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Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Lihyunpark(m): 2:09pm On Oct 06, 2017 |
irynterri: so u worship 3gods? |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by irynterri(f): 4:24pm On Oct 07, 2017 |
Lihyunpark:nope, 1 God that manifests in 3ways |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by irynterri(f): 4:52pm On Oct 07, 2017 |
Lihyunpark:nice observations you quoted, but in all this you forgot to note that Jesus came as a man in all forms except in sin, he could feel pain, he had emotions(he wept when Lazarus died),he can be tempted, the sacrifice he made was temporarily leaving his God status to become man in all ways but sin, well, it is no news that the kingdoms of this earth belongs to the devil, ritual killings alone to get power and other happenings around you should tell you who really owns this earth, the Kingdom of Christ is that which is yet to come. Jesus while on earth never boasted of been equal to God (because in boasting he commits a sin),please don't expect Jesus in his human form to tell anyone to worship him, lots of instances were cited where people worshipped him even John 20:28 attests to Thomas the Apostle calling Jesus,My Lord and my God 28 Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. If he was not God he would have rebuked them as done by the prophets and angels because worship is revered only for God, he lets them do it because he knows it is only someone filled with the Holy Spirit that will recognize and worship his divinity despite the fact he looked human, maybe their junior in age, no nobility and from a poor background,a further look at John 1:1-18 will educate you on the mystery of Jesus been God.Just read carefully, absorbing patiently. Shalom. 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. 9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me. 16 And of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:50pm On Oct 11, 2017 |
Themandator:No! the Bible doesn't say that it says " And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven." it is the prayer of the presbyter that enable forgiveness of sins. Other translations of the Bible uses faults .... Because the sins have already been taken care of by the prayers of the elders and the anointing oil...... Confess your faults ..ONE TO ANOTHER ...This is simple English that applies when you have more than two people involved. .... James , if he meant what you are implying , could have asked them to confess their sins or faults to him since he IS an apostle but he told them one to another .....THE ONE I HAVE OFFENDED IS THE WILL ENTITLED TO MY CONFESSION.the Greek word in that passage is hamartia it means sin not fault or offense to a person. Jesus gave his apostles power to forgive sins I.e offenses against God and James tells us how the priest is to know such sins I.e confession and Paul records and example of himself exercising that power. it isn't about talking to someone you offended it is about forgiving sins. we are not talking about offenses against your wife, we are talking about sin, the Greek term is hermatia Thee is no scripture anywhere to back up what you do as confession in the Catholic Church.. it is mans personal idea and it is not scriptural. What you brought up in 2 Cor 2:10 still doesn't speak to your idea of forgiveness....Whomever forgive I also forgive ............."To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;" (2Cor 2:10)....... Until I forgive you for the wrong against me , it stays ............ If I have offended you you ought to know without my telling youthis only show you are ignorant of the scripture, a man committed incest in 1 cor Paul said the punishment is excommunication but in 2 cor he said the guy is forgiven because once he forgives a sin it is forgiven with Christ's authority. that is how it has been understood and practiced in the church. N.B. Pope innocent made a church law that says every Catholic should go to confession at least once a year.he didn't establish confession, confession has been practiced since the 1st century. make research so as not to spread misinformation. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Themandator: 6:16pm On Oct 11, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: What exactly are you still arguing after seeing it in the Bible that the prayer of the elders upon application of the anointing oil shall cause any sin ( Hermatia) he has sinned to be forgiven..... The sin is already taken care by the prayer of the elders. He can't be forgiven of his or her sin by the Lord through the prayer of faith of the elders and turn around to ask for another forgiveness f same from you. "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. ........................ "sins" (hamartia) are forgiven when the Lord saves and raises up the sick one who has been anointed and prayed over by the elders. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (Jam 5:14-16) The Greek word used in the above is not Hermatia ..... Sins can't be forgiven twice ........The Greek word in this verse is paraptoma. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defines it as, "a side-slip...i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:-fall, fault, offence, trespass." W. E. Vine renders paraptoma as "trespass," "a blunder," "to fall away And this paraptoma , from the scripture... James 5:16 ...Is confessed one to another ...nOt one to the elders .. not one to the presbyter but to one another ........ James didn't exhort them to go to the elders or even to the apostles but only another..The one I have offended is the one to hear my apologies. Bringing Paul's statement in the book of Corinthians proves you have little understanding of what your focus is on this subject matter .... Did the man enter a box to confess his sin .... Did he first confess his sinin to them. How you insist on something that Jesus , the master, the teacher never practiced is beyond me .....Did Jesus gave sins ...yes ...Was it recorded , yes ...How did he so it? When he handed this authority, he was already heaven bound... This was after his death and resurrection..... The things they saw him do would be their natural guide in their ministry Pope Innocent 111 started the practice of confession in 1215 ..... Read Cardinal Newman on the pagan origin of your practices .... He wrote his book in 1824.He gave his book to the church to edit but they could find any issue with his finding and told him they can't edit it. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:23pm On Oct 18, 2017 |
my earlier response was removed by the antispam boot, so I'm trying to rewrite Themandator:so you finally agree that through the ministry of the presbyter sins are forgiven? |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:48pm On Oct 18, 2017 |
the translation you are using has translated that passage incompletely the original Greek says ἐξομολογεῖσθε o v ἀλλήλοις τὰς ἁμαρτίας which literally says confess therefore/by extension to one another the sins... it is translated as therefore confess your sin to one another... the Greek worked o v is translated as therefore or So or by extension and that is missing from the Bible translation you are using... that is why you seem ignorant of the fact that the injunction to confess your sin is actually a continuation and extension of the verse that says call the presbyter and if there is sin he will be forgiven. The term therefore is to inform us on how the presbyter is to be made aware of the sins for which he is to pray about... it is through confession. Themandator: you are mistaken the Greek word used there is ἁμαρτίας I.e hermatia not paraptoma as you claim. it is hermatia and as I earlier explained the injunction to confess is itself but an extension of the call the presbyter passage. let me hope the anti spam boot doesn't take this down. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by jnrbayano(m): 2:53pm On Oct 18, 2017 |
ENDTIMEgist: Do you also think the way they think that Jesus is not God? |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:23pm On Oct 18, 2017 |
Themandator:actually the Corinthian case is very much on point... it clearly shows an apostle declaring a sin forgiven with the authority of Christ and it has nothing to do with illness. it clearly shows that sins aren't only declared forgiven only during healings as you claimed. here an apostle declare a sin forgiven without reference to an ailment. again you seem ignorant of the fact that confession isn't limited to a box, in fact it can happen anywhere and in ancient times it was done right before the assembly in some Christian churches, those communities only stopped public confession when some people started to use it for blackmail purpose. How you insist on something that Jesus , the master, the teacher never practiced is beyond me .....Did Jesus gave sins ...yes ...Was it recorded , yes ...How did he so it?lol did Jesus read from a new testament or solemnise Sunday... did he teach in gentile country? the apostles and disciples wrote a new testament, worshipped on Sundays, and taught in gentile lands, they had the holy spirit who guided them in organising the Church. even Paul who didn't see the Lord while on earth received by revelation. besides the Gospels didn't claim to record every time Jesus forgave sin for you to claim Paul made a mistake when he declared forgiveness even without ailment |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 4:42pm On Oct 18, 2017 |
Themandator: here I challenge you to tell us the book in which John Henry Newman made such claim and provide the quote in its context. I have read not more than 2 books written by card. Newman, he was an Anglican priest who converted to Catholicism and is pretty intelligent, I have a feeling you are misquoting him. should it be different then it would be that he was only mistaken since the practice of confession has been in the Church from the beginning, note the following documents The Didache – The Earliest Christian Catechism (pre-dating some of the canonical writings of the New Testament) “Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]). The Letter of Barnabas “You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]). St. Ignatius of Antioch “For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 106]). “For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop” (ibid., . St. Irenaeus of Lyons “[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession [of their previous heresy/sins], but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses” (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]). Tertullian of Carthage “[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness” (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]). St. Hippolytus of Rome “[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command” (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]). Origen of Alexandria “[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, “To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity”’” (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]). St. Cyprian of Carthage “The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him” (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]). “Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord” (ibid., 28). “[S]inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of Communion. [But now some] with their time [of penance] still unfulfilled . . . they are admitted to Communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the Eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]“ (Letters 9:2 [A.D. 253]). “And do not think, dearest brother, that either the courage of the brethren will be lessened, or that martyrdoms will fail for this cause, that penance is relaxed to the lapsed, and that the hope of peace [i.e., absolution] is offered to the penitent. . . . For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given” (ibid., 51[55]:20). “But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, ‘Remember whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works’ [Rev. 2:5], which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his deeds [of penance], because it is written, ‘Alms deliver from death’ [Tob. 12:9]“ (ibid., 51[55]:22). St. Aphraahat the Persian “You [priests], then, who are disciples of our illustrious physician [Christ], you ought not deny a curative to those in need of healing. And if anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public, lest because of it the innocent might be reckoned as guilty by our enemies and by those who hate us” (Treatises 7:3 [A.D. 340]). St. Basil the Great “It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted. Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt. 3:6], but in Acts [19:18] they confessed to the apostles” (Rules Briefly Treated 288 [A.D. 374]). St. John Chrysostom “Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed.’ Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did [God] not give them all the powers of heaven? ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ he says, ‘they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men [Matt. 10:40; John 20:21–23]. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven” (The Priesthood 3:5 [A.D. 387]). St. Ambrose of Milan “For those to whom [the right of binding and loosing] has been given, it is plain that either both are allowed, or it is clear that neither is allowed. Both are allowed to the Church, neither is allowed to heresy. For this right has been granted to priests only” (Penance 1:1 [A.D. 388]). St. Jerome of Stridonium “If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him” (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 10:11 [A.D. 388]). St. Augustine of Hippo “When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance” (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]). this clearly show Christian practicing confession from the 1st century. so you're incorrect. I'm still waiting for the quote from Newman. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Themandator: 10:58pm On Oct 21, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: I don't intend to continue this see-saw discussion with you. .... I never argued whether sins are forgiven by the prayers of the presbyter.... I stated that at the point if Anointing oil, sins have been taken care of and since it has been forgiven at that point without confession of any kind imputed that you can return to re forgive same sin again in your brand of confession The scripture says use Anointing oil in him and then pray and if he has committed any sin it shall be forgiven ...is it has been forgiven what sin do you hope tomorrow again in confessional box The scripture went down to to say categorically, confess your sin one to another ...never to the elders but one to another ...... If this sentence was part of your comprehension passage and you are already what it means as used in the past we , would you give it the meaning you are ascribing to it: confession your sin to the presbyter. This is common grammar ... It doesn't invite all the confusion and misleading interpretation you have tried to associate with it but if you are okay with that your view point , carry gon abeg
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Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Themandator: 11:11pm On Oct 21, 2017 |
Haha Rev. Fr. Carry go Newman wrote that book before becoming a Catholic and actuaugaveit to the church to edit to suit their doctrines and practices but they could not but rather told him that he wrote it as a non Catholic. That book traced the history of the pagan root of most of your practices.... Not just confession including Christmas and even the changing of the worship days to Sundays but as far you be father carry go ...make I keep my sword ...you win.... Confession na the real thing Ubenedictus:
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Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Themandator: 8:12am On Oct 22, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: The adulterous woman was chased to where Jesus Christ was and he said...any one who has not committed sin let him be the first to throw stone.... The woman was not sick ... she committed sin and was caught ...she did not go to confession but was caught ...... This ties with when he see your brother commiting sin ...you need to see it spiritually like Jesus always saw it in the sprit realm and forgave ... He didn't need the help of the sinner Carry go you Don win |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:11pm On Oct 22, 2017 |
Themandator:oya give the name of the book and the quote he made on confession verbertim. |
Re: When And Why Did You Change The Church You Were Born Into? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:26pm On Oct 22, 2017 |
Themandator:oh you are happy with forgiving sins of people who are caught or are sick but you are against the forgiveness of people who confess abi? |
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