Why does everyone keep saying Health Care is free? Health care in Germany is NOT FREE, and the quality is excellent. Yeah some will not earn as much as the others but are you trying to say that ALL NURSES in America are earning 6figures?? Come on.

davidylan:



All 2700 pages? you're lying. Its more than obvious. regulating doctor pay does not appear in the bill.

David- This is in the Bill, I doubt you have have read everything. you choose what you want to read.
I have posted that part of the bill already.

platinumnk:

Obama’s plan #1 Align incentives for excellence.
"Both public and private insurers tend to pay providers based on the volume of services provided, rather than the quality or effectiveness of care. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will accelerate efforts to develop and disseminate best practices, and align reimbursement with provision of high quality health care. [size=18pt]Providers who see patients enrolled in the new public plan, the National Health Insurance Exchange, Medicare and FEHB will be rewarded for achieving performance thresholds on physician-validated outcome measures.”[/size]

Even if clear criterion was established to measure “quality”, pay based on quality and not volume will automatically lower physician potential earnings. This will probably have the biggest negative impact on highly procedural subspecialties Any thoughts?

Please tell me Uncle David that you skipped over this?
If you can look past whats on paper,

Badriyyah:

Why does everyone keep saying Health Care is free? Health care in Germany is NOT FREE, and the quality is excellent. Yeah some will not earn as much as the others but are you trying to say that ALL NURSES in America are earning 6figures?? Come on.

Im not saying that, But universal healthcare, hospitals admins will pass cuts down to workers.
Why is only American Nurses earn up to 70K?
I have already posted the rates for nurses in Germany.
In 20 years I should be earning 40K, based on the most recent payscale that was published.

nobody sees nothing wrong?
okthen. Im glad I wont be working for a hospital then! Private Practices for all until the Govent. shuts them down


Did you know that the Canadian Gov. stepped in to regulate doctors private practice due to refusal to accept Governmental payments?


Can Someone tell me how do one measure the Quality of care? Are we rating Doctors now?
So do Doctors opt for easy things like colds, and avoid things like cancer?

platinumnk:

David- This is in the Bill, I doubt you have have read everything. you choose what you want to read.
I have posted that part of the bill already.
Please tell me Uncle David that you skipped over this?
If you can look past whats on paper,

What you posted was a summary that others put up on the website. So much for you reading the bill yourself. How do you know the "summaries" are accurate?

Besides i'm not sure you fully digest what that portion is saying . . .

Insurance companies pay doctors based on VOLUME of services provided (which is why you do so many unecessary tests!). It benefits the insurance companies who can then bill you MORE for wasteful service rendered.

That portion you quoted says NOTHING about the government regulating doctor pay, it simply says that doctors will be rewarded based on efficiency of care not on volume of services provided. Obama himself raised the example of Mayo clinic. the doctors there arent complaining of lower pay.

Learn to understand facts before coming here.

Wow @platinumnk.
It's so obvious that you have no clue of what you are talking about. Go get informed and come back and try this again. I believe a number of people have told you on this forum already that the bill and by the way no bill in this country is perfect but it does a lot to correct the wrongs that have been in the healthcare industry for decades now.
I am still trying to decipher what your argument is, that doctors will earn less or that the quality of healthcare will be reduced? Remember with the new bill they are not firing all the doctors and healthcare workers we have now and importing new and less qualified ones from Congo. The same doctors u had yesterday will still be there tomorrow doing the same things they do albeit In a better and more regulated system.
Before you go off on a tangent and talk about your "dear sister" that works in Germany, let me point out that i lived in Germany  a long time and now live in the states and the differences in both. Ask your sister all the other government benefits she gets even though you say she is earning less. ask her how much the government pays her as "kinder Geld" for her kids every month till they are 21! Ask her how much vacation time she gets i paid in a year? Ask her how many hours she works in a day and they compare that to people in the states and come back and let us know.
If u need someone to explain the bill to you or the issues that it will be addressing i will be glad to do that. ( i mean that in a good way) Or you want to know why the countries you mentioned are better off than the U.S in terms of healthcare i can help with that as well. I have an abundance of examples, even personal ones.

davidylan:

What you posted was a summary that others put up on the website. So much for you reading the bill yourself. How do you know the "summaries" are accurate?

Besides i'm not sure you fully digest what that portion is saying . . .

Insurance companies pay doctors based on VOLUME of services provided (which is why you do so many unecessary tests!). It benefits the insurance companies who can then bill you MORE for wasteful service rendered.

That portion you quoted says NOTHING about the government regulating doctor pay, it simply says that doctors will be rewarded based on efficiency of care not on volume of services provided. Obama himself raised the example of Mayo clinic. the doctors there arent complaining of lower pay.

Learn to understand facts before coming here.

Since You havent read it and you want to intrpret it inyour own way.
Please tell me what is ----- efficiency of care not on volume of services provided.-

Curing a Cold or Cancer?

So based on not volume, and there will be volume anyway, whats the incentive?


You still havent told me why in Canada the gove had to step in a regulate Private Practices.

platinumnk:

Since You havent read it and you want to intrpret it inyour own way.
Please tell me what is ----- efficiency of care not on volume of services provided.-

Curing a Cold or Cancer?

So based on not volume, and there will be volume anyway, whats the incentive?


You still havent told me why in Canada the gove had to step in a regulate Private Practices.

This is not a coincidence . . .

debosky:

Platinum you have LITTLE or no understanding of the healthcare bill.

[PyRo]:

@platinumnk,

your argument is all over the place . . . the comparisons and contrasts serve no purpose and are almost incoherent. you basically have no idea what you're talking about.

Kaiser5000:

Wow @platinumnk.
It's so obvious that you have no clue of what you are talking about. Go get informed and come back and try this again.

I'm sorry but i happen to agree with every single such comment here. Go and get informed.

the biggest improvement on healthcare thanx to this bill is no more pre existing conditions. those in the us know exactly what i mean

davidylan:

. .

Insurance companies pay doctors based on VOLUME of services provided (which is why you do so many unecessary tests!). It benefits the insurance companies who can then bill you MORE for wasteful service rendered.

this is merely transferring the system from a volume of services system to a volume of diagnosis system. This will result in physicians seeing more patients for less pay. Under such a system, a physician may work a 12 hour day and receive little to no compensation due to poor "quality" of diagnosis.

Kaiser5000:

Wow @platinumnk.
It's so obvious that you have no clue of what you are talking about. Go get informed and come back and try this again. I believe a number of people have told you on this forum already that the bill and by the way no bill in this country is perfect but it does a lot to correct the wrongs that have been in the healthcare industry for decades now.
I am still trying to decipher what your argument is, that doctors will earn less or that the quality of healthcare will be reduced? Remember with the new bill they are not firing all the doctors and healthcare workers we have now and importing new and less qualified ones from Congo. The same doctors u had yesterday will still be there tomorrow doing the same things they do albeit In a better and more regulated system.
Before you go off on a tangent and talk about your "dear sister" that works in Germany, let me point out that i lived in Germany  a long time and now live in the states and the differences in both. Ask your sister all the other government benefits she gets even though you say she is earning less. ask her how much the government pays her as "kinder Geld" for her kids every month till they are 21! Ask her how much vacation time she gets i paid in a year? Ask her how many hours she works in a day and they compare that to people in the states and come back and let us know.
If u need someone to explain the bill to you or the issues that it will be addressing i will be glad to do that. ( i mean that in a good way) Or you want to know why the countries you mentioned are better off than the U.S in terms of healthcare i can help with that as well. I have an abundance of examples, even personal ones.

I know what you want to tell me, short story, the Rich are taxed (Which does affect me) and they pass on the Taxes off to the uninsured right, and that children can stay longer on their parents insurance. Doctors and Nurses will be compensated the same, and nothing comes from our pay for those who dont earn more than 200, 000.

sounds like a fairy tale come true right?

You claim to understand, but none of yall think beyond whats on paper.

The problem with that is government programs are extraordinarily inefficient and usually create more problems than they solve while making the whole mess even more complicated.

agathamari:

the biggest improvement on healthcare thanx to this bill is no more pre existing conditions. those in the us know exactly what i mean

I would agree with you but i happen to think a public option would have been the best thing to happen to this bill if it werent dropped by the senate.

platinumnk:

this is merely transferring the system from a volume of services system to a volume of diagnosis system. This will result in physicians seeing more patients for less pay. Under such a system, a physician may work a 12 hour day and receive little to no compensation due to poor "quality" of diagnosis.
I know what you want to tell me, short story, the Rich are taxed (Which does affect me) and they pass on the Taxes off to the uninsured right, and that children can stay longer on their parents insurance. Doctors and Nurses will be compensated the same, and nothing comes from our pay for those who dont earn more than 200, 000.

sounds like a fairy tale come true right?

You claim to understand, but none of yall think beyond whats on paper.

The problem with that is government programs are extraordinarily inefficient and usually create more problems than they solve while making the whole mess even more complicated.

Do u realize that this bill does not have a "public option"? so there is no new government program that did not exist before this bill was passed. There will be an insurance exchange that will allow people and small businesses to come together and shop for better prices. By coming together they can bargain for better rates. Now tell me what is wrong with that?
You mentioned before that stocks of insurance companies went up, that happened because investors know there will be 30million new customers. Do u think investors are trying to loose their money?
The reason why it is necessary to mandate people to buy insurance is because most health young people refuse to buy insurance now because they are healthy. We don't need them buying it when they are sick and will only drain a system they did not contribute to.
What is your major problem with the bill? u think you will earn less or what?

davidylan:

This is not a coincidence . . .

I'm sorry but i happen to agree with every single such comment here. Go and get informed.

And I guess the other millions who feel the same way dont understand either.  
Go figure.

davidylan:

I would agree with you but i happen to think a public option would have been the best thing to happen to this bill if it werent dropped by the senate.

this is only step one.  there is still alot of work to do and it will get there.

has anyone heard if Rush left like he promised yet ?

Yeah we need to follow up on that and wish him well as he leaves,

Platinum I jst discovered you are one of those who bought those lies the republicans have been selling for yrs to prevent this day from coming to pass. I jst discovered that many Americans does not even know what this health care package is all abt, but rely on the lies the republicans told them for their own selfish reasons.This issue has argued over an over here on NL yet none of you or any republican has been be able to raise any tangible suggestion on how more than 40million health uninsured Americans can be covered. Many time Obama has challenged the Republicans openly that he is ready to work with any tangible proposals they might come up with. Yet none but can criticise the bill to letter.
 
I will ask your again Platinum, please can you give us any other alternative to this bill that can cover at least 32million uninsured American citizens. Even those carrying playcards up and down, ask them the same question, you see them in a confused silence Remember that this uninsured American are tax payers like u and everyothers who think is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The republicans can waste the taxpayers money in sponsoring an unjust war in Iraq, but complains when it is being used direct for the benefit of the American citizen.
This should be a historic moment for an average Americans.

agathamari:

this is only step one.  there is still alot of work to do and it will get there.

has anyone heard if Rush left like he promised yet ?

Yeah i hear they have at least 40 votes on the public option so far. Dont know if Reid will help squeeze it in before Nov.

I thot Limbaugh would have left too . . . i'd be glad if he does and takes Beck with him.

Princekevo pls ignore platinum, a lot of people simply want to say something without taking the pains to be informed about it.

platinumnk:

The problem with that is government programs are extraordinarily inefficient and usually create more problems than they solve while making the whole mess even more complicated.

I had to fight my own inclination to respond to this sheer piece of republican propaganda. I think those who repeat it need to be returned to kindergarten classes.

The government programs are "extraordinarily inefficient"? The same government that maintains the most powerful military on earth? the same government that maintains 911 emergency services, maintains a space program, maintains medicare and VA that no one would dare do away with?

Let me stop here . . .

ok those in the us maybe you know the answer to this.  a friend of mine has MS and cant work and doesnt qualify for medicare.  is the new system going to help her or is she still out of it?

agathamari:

ok those in the us maybe you know the answer to this.  a friend of mine has MS and cant work and doesnt qualify for medicare.  is the new system going to help her or is she still out of it?

She probably cant get insurance because she has MS (pre-existing condition). Under this bill she shld now be able to purchase insurance. At best she could buy one through the healthcare exchanges this bill will setup but that doesnt go into effect until 2013 at the earliest.

Unfortunately a public option or medicare for all would have been her best shot.

davidylan:

I had to fight my own inclination to respond to this sheer piece of republican propaganda. I think those who repeat it need to be returned to kindergarten classes.

The government programs are "extraordinarily inefficient"? The same government that maintains the most powerful military on earth? the same government that maintains 911 emergency services, maintains a space program, maintains medicare and VA that no one would dare do away with?

Let me stop here . . .

Did you hear they are shutting down space programs?
Stop running around incircles, there are more programs that are ineffiecent that you  are not naming.
There's a lot of talking around in circles here, but I can tell you what happens to physicians' salaries when the government gets involved - they plummet. Medicare reimbursement cuts have been declining every few years for the past decade and a half. I was reading this morning about physician pay in Germany being quite poor compared to the US. I guess it looks like we can catch up with them pretty soon

davidylan:

She probably cant get insurance because she has MS (pre-existing condition). Under this bill she shld now be able to purchase insurance. At best she could buy one through the healthcare exchanges this bill will setup but that doesnt go into effect until 2013 at the earliest.

Unfortunately a public option or medicare for all would have been her best shot.

i was to the understanding that insurance companies were no longer permited to deny treatment due to preexisting conditions as part of the bill that passed or was it droped at the last min

platinumnk:

Did you hear they are shutting down space programs?
Stop running around incircles, there are more programs that are ineffiecent that you  are not naming.
There's a lot of talking around in circles here, but I can tell you what happens to physicians' salaries when the government gets involved - they plummet. Medicare reimbursement cuts have been declining every few years for the past decade and a half. I was reading this morning about physician pay in Germany being quite poor compared to the US. I guess it looks like we can catch up with them pretty soon

No i never heard they are shutting down space programs, again you dont seem to have much idea what you are talking about.

There are programs in government that are inefficient (there are private programs that are much worse) but to say all are "extraordinarily inefficient" is just silly.

you keep harping on physician salaries . . . kaiser5000 has simply put that fact to rest. Read up on the issues.

platinumnk:

Did you hear they are shutting down space programs?
Stop running around incircles, there are more programs that are ineffiecent that you  are not naming.
There's a lot of talking around in circles here, but I can tell you what happens to physicians' salaries when the government gets involved - they plummet. Medicare reimbursement cuts have been declining every few years for the past decade and a half. I was reading this morning about physician pay in Germany being quite poor compared to the US. I guess it looks like we can catch up with them pretty soon

they are not shutting down the space programs, for christ sake they are talking about going back to the moon in the next 5-10 years.  where are you getting any of this nonsence from?

the sheer drama, hate,lies and propaganda from the Republicans  ,from the initial proposal of this bill to the signing was pure entertainment  
shows how far these old crooks would go just to get their way , a classical example is senator McCain , just cant stop laughing at his antics

princekevo:

Platinum I jst discovered you are one of those who bought those lies the republicans have been selling for yrs to prevent this day from coming to pass. I jst discovered that many Americans does not even know what this health care package is all abt, but rely on the lies the republicans told them for their own selfish reasons.This issue has argued over an over here on NL yet none of you or any republican has been be able to raise any tangible suggestion on how more than 40million health uninsured Americans can be covered. Many time Obama has challenged the Republicans openly that he is ready to work with any tangible proposals they might come up with. Yet none but can criticise the bill to letter.
 
I will ask your again Platinum, please can you give us any other alternative to this bill that can cover at least 32million uninsured American citizens. Even those carrying playcards up and down, ask them the same question, you see them in a confused silence Remember that this uninsured American are tax payers like u and everyothers who think is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The republicans can waste the taxpayers money in sponsoring an unjust war in Iraq, but complains when it is being used direct for the benefit of the American citizen.
This should be a historic moment for an average Americans.

My policitcal party afflication is not the issue here.
I do believe that people without insurance should be able to get treated
But doing it the socialist way is a no-no

On the one hand, I am hesitant toward changes because I do believe it will place the physician over a barrel in being forced to accept virtually any conditions placed upon them. However, there is a very real problem with Medicare that cannot go unnoticed - namely, the ever-present reimbursement cuts and the looming insolvency.


Incase DAVID is CLUELESS to MEDICARE?/ MEDICAID- They pay less than private practice, and when Universal Healthcare sprung up in Canada, the govt had to start regualting the amount of of private practice.

ikamefa:

the sheer drama, hate,lies and propaganda from the Republicans  ,from the initial proposal of this bill to the signing was pure entertainment  
shows how far these old crooks would go just to get their way , a classical example is senator McCain , just cant stop laughing at his antics

my dear, i'm having a good time on the FOXnews facebook page. you need to read the sheer terror, hate and lies from these folks. Dem don tire for me . . . one of them stopped talking to me after i pointed out he was on medicare and yet accusing Obama of socialism.

One quit after i reminded him corporate taxes are not Obama's fault and that Japan and co have more stringent tax rules than the US.

Now one has resorted to calling me a negro who shld go home.

agathamari:

i was to the understanding that insurance companies were no longer permited to deny treatment due to preexisting conditions as part of the bill that passed or was it droped at the last min

no its still there and it takes effect immediately.

Kaiser5000:


Do u realize that this bill does not have a "public option"? so there is no new government program that did not exist before this bill was passed. There will be an insurance exchange that will allow people and small businesses to come together and shop for better prices. By coming together they can bargain for better rates. Now tell me what is wrong with that?
You mentioned before that stocks of insurance companies went up, that happened because investors know there will be 30million new customers. Do u think investors are trying to loose their money?
The reason why it is necessary to mandate people to buy insurance is because most health young people refuse to buy insurance now because they are healthy. We don't need them buying it when they are sick and will only drain a system they did not contribute to.
What is your major problem with the bill? u think you will earn less or what?

We all know that Medicaid pays low.
what happens when you work more for less?

plat are you a physician? family members? or planning to marry one?

platinumnk:

Did you hear they are shutting down space programs?
Stop running around incircles, there are more programs that are ineffiecent that you  are not naming.
There's a lot of talking around in circles here, but I can tell you what happens to physicians' salaries when the government gets involved - they plummet. Medicare reimbursement cuts have been declining every few years for the past decade and a half. I was reading this morning about physician pay in Germany being quite poor compared to the US. I guess it looks like we can catch up with them pretty soon

These German doctors you keep talking about, did they tell you they were suffering or did they tell you they were poor. Did you even see any of them trying to come work in the states like Nigerian doctors trying to go anywhere but Nigeria?
Try telling those doctors that you will take a way their minimum vacation time of at least 60days a year (of which i am sure doctors get at least 90 days) for the eextrahealth care workers male working like dogs. Have you ever wondered why health care workers make the so called "big money" and but the big houses that they never get to spend time in? Well let me let you know, because they need 23hours out of the 24hours iIn aday to make that money. What quality of life is that? Have you been to Europe in the summer time? There is practically nobody working because they are all on vacation! This what the aagreedto take instaed of  the extra change you might get here working 24/7. They just have different exexpectationsn how they want to spend their lives.
Just as a simple thought, since you keep harping on how much doctors and nurses make. Just because they make it now does not mean it is justified or that they can not live on less and still have a great life. Do some research and you will find that CEO's in Japan have a cap on how much they can make but here in the states there is no thing as a limit on CEO pay. Does that mean CEO's here are doing a better job? In the states sports stars, movie starts etc make millions but it does not mean they cannot get less and still be happy or not do as well a job as they have been doing.

davidylan:

my dear, i'm having a good time on the FOXnews facebook page. you need to read the sheer terror, hate and lies from these folks. Dem don tire for me . . . one of them stopped talking to me after i pointed out he was on medicare and yet accusing Obama of socialism.

One quit after i reminded him corporate taxes are not Obama's fault and that Japan and co have more stringent tax rules than the US.

Now one has resorted to calling me a negro who shld go home.

hahahaha! poor you! poor obama sef there is nothing under the sun they have not called this man:

the antichrist, a socialist, some said he is a covert muslim, not really a full fledged american all sorts of bull-crap  

and what is this man trying to do? make life a little better for the next man  

sometimes  these peoples propaganda just have me in a laughing stupor for days

America we hail thee "   "

davidylan:

plat are you a physician? family members? or planning to marry one?

prolly a nurse in training, a gal's gotta fight for her future innit?

something working in europe and canada doesnt necessarily mean it will work in the US.

This is not fair. See the sheer advantage the Obama supporters have in this debate. Only Platinumnk versus all of you . Its not fair, where are the reinforcements. Kobojunkie, Jesoul, Tayo-d e.t.c.   show face nah.