lovingJehovah:
The exact pronunciation of the divine name in ancient Hebrew is not known. However, the form “Jehovah” has a long history in the English language, first appearing in William Tyndale’s Bible translation of 1530.

Why is the pronunciation of God’s name in ancient Hebrew unknown?

However, after the Hebrew Scriptures (“Old Testament”) were completed, some Jews adopted the superstitious belief that it was wrong to utter God’s personal name. When they read aloud a scripture that contained God’s name, they substituted expressions such as “Lord” or “God.” As centuries passed, this superstition spread and the ancient pronunciation was eventually lost. *

Misconception: Following the tradition of the Jews, God’s name should be removed from the Bible.

Fact: It is true that some Jewish scribes refused to pronounce the divine name. However, they did not remove it from their copies of the Bible. In any case, God does not want us to follow human traditions that deviate from his commandments.—Matthew 15:1-3.

Misconception: The divine name should not be used in the Bible because it is not known exactly how to pronounce it in Hebrew.

Fact: This line of reasoning assumes that God expects people who speak different languages to pronounce his name identically. However, the Bible indicates that God’s worshippers in the past who spoke different languages pronounced proper names differently.

Consider, for example, the Israelite judge Joshua. First-century Christians who spoke Hebrew would have pronounced his name Yehoh·shuʹaʽ, while those who spoke Greek would have said I·e·sousʹ. The Bible records the Greek translation of Joshua’s Hebrew name, showing that Christians followed the sensible course of using the form of proper names common in their language.—Acts 7:45; Hebrews 4:8.

The same principle can be applied to translating the divine name. Far more important than the exact pronunciation chosen is that God’s name be given its rightful place in the Bible.

Emusan:


In summary:
Did original pronunciation of God's name lost?
If God is so concerned about His name, why did He allow it to be lost?
How did Jesus pronounce the name, is it according to the tradition of men or used the original pronunciation?

Emusan:

So the actual pronunciation is not known but JWs decided to follow the tradition of men to use Jehovah just because it has a long history in the English language.
If God is so concerned about His name, why must the pronunciation lost?
Why God didn't reveal the original pronunciation to Russell or the governing body?

Emusan:

The scripture recorded that Jesus was given the book of Isaiah to read and according to your organization YHWH appeared in where Jesus read.
So how does Jesus pronounce it?
Did Jesus follow the tradition of men or used the original pronunciation?
Because it's evident that the original pronunciation had been lost long before Jesus Christ.

Emusan:
Since God doesn't want us to follow the tradition of men, Jesus would've set the example.
So did Jesus pronounce the original name or not?

Emusan:
The problem here which you failed to see is that, if first century Hebrew Christians would pronounce God's name as YEHOH-SHU`A, it's still the pronunciation according to the tradition of men NOT the original LOST PRONUNCIATION.

Emusan:
The same principle can't be applied here.
In summary:
Did original pronunciation of God's name lost?

Emusan:
If God is so concerned about His name, why did He allow it to be lost?

Emusan:
How did Jesus pronounce the name, is it according to the tradition of men or used the original pronunciation?

JMAN05:


How did Jesus pronounce his own name and how do you pronounce the name now?

lovingJehovah:
You know someone is obsessed when you see him on every thread with a negative thought to set you back in your faith. This rigmarole about how Jesus sounded the name of God is a ploy to waste time and derail fruitful conversations. They somehow believe that they are speaking the original language in which the scriptures were written. But little do they pay cognizance to the fact that English is a neo-language compared to many languages in the world.
They accept all the words translated in the Bible but JEHOVAH. A very clear indication that Satan is at work. Some people go as far as accepting Jehovah-Jireh but when you separate the two words, they refute the first part of it. When you ask them how Jesus pronounced his own name, they abort the conversation because of fear that questioning the name might attract the unknown. Some people never knew that Jesus is an English name translated from another language. If we have to unearth all the names in the Bible and how they were actually pronounced, then there will be no Bible in English and also in Arabic.

JMAN05:


How did Jesus pronounce his own name and how do you pronounce the name now?

lovingJehovah:

The shade of it all in the last line, uh huh
Well, there are many names in the Bible that have also been translated to other languages and accepted. No one in the world today speaks Aramaic used in writing the first part of the Bible. The argument goes likewise for many other names including Jesus.

As long as we make an effort to call him by his actual name, he understands.

For a fact, God is concerned about his name hence Exodus 3:15 "..."This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation."

How do you get along with other names without asking how Jesus pronounced them? Do you have a score with the name? Have you ever question how Jesus sounded his own name? Do you care how we now arrived at all other names in the Bible?

John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
Jesus made the name known while he was on earth.

There is another problem that you might have skipped. Yehoshua is translated as Jesus and not Jehovah. So, which first century Christians are you referring to?

Yes, the original pronunciation of the name is lost.

What do you mean by tradition of men?

Emusan:


You failed to read between the line of the point raised by your fellow brother but quickly jumped in to derail.

The points here are:

1) The original pronunciation of God's name in Hebrew has been lost long before Jesus Christ Himself came.

2) The fear of pronouncing the name had made men to substitute it for other name like Lord or God. Which made it a tradition of men.

3) Jesus read a passage from Isaiah where the name appeared.

4) Did Jesus follow the tradition of men by pronouncing what was written there i.e Lord, God or pronouncing the name with ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION?

5) If the original pronunciation of the name had been lost, don't you think Jesus supposed to restore it?

If this wasn't clear enough then I can't help you further.

JMAN05:


That question I asked is it too big that you can't provide a simple answer? That's why discussing with you is a burden.

Have a nice day!

Emusan:


Imaging I first asked question you didn't answer but have to jump in with your own question.

Besides, like I pointed out from my previous points raised, it's not about TRANSLATIONS but about LOST PRONUNCIATION.

Discussing with me will always be burden to JWS because they can't refute my points.

JMAN05:
You knw how many times I ve refuted your claims in this board.

Only if you are honest.

But your problem is going straight and answer question without filling the whole thread with long unreasonable write-ups.

Why not give a straight answer? Is that hard for you?

JMAN05:


You knw how many times I ve refuted your claims in this board. Only if you are honest. But your problem is going straight and answer question without filling the whole thread with long unreasonable write-ups. Why not give a straight answer? Is that hard for you?

lovingJehovah:
Jehovah is the true God of the Bible, the Creator of all things. (Revelation 4:11) The prophets Abraham and Moses worshipped him, as did Jesus. (Genesis 24:27; Exodus 15:1, 2; John 20:17) He is the God, not just of one people, but of “all the earth.”—Psalm 47:2.

Jehovah is God’s unique name as revealed in the Bible. (Exodus 3:15; Psalm 83:18) It comes from a Hebrew verb that means “to become,” and a number of scholars suggest that the name means “He Causes to Become.” This definition well fits Jehovah’s role as the Creator and the Fulfiller of his purpose. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) The Bible also helps us to know the Person behind the name Jehovah, especially his dominant quality of love.—Exodus 34:5-7; Luke 6:35; 1 John 4:8.

The name Jehovah is an English translation of the Hebrew name for God—the four letters יהוה (YHWH), known as the Tetragrammaton. The exact pronunciation of the divine name in ancient Hebrew is not known. However, the form “Jehovah” has a long history in the English language, first appearing in William Tyndale’s Bible translation of 1530. *

Why is the pronunciation of God’s name in ancient Hebrew unknown?

Ancient Hebrew was written without vowels, using only consonants. The Hebrew-speaking reader could easily provide the appropriate vowels. However, after the Hebrew Scriptures (“Old Testament”) were completed, some Jews adopted the superstitious belief that it was wrong to utter God’s personal name. When they read aloud a scripture that contained God’s name, they substituted expressions such as “Lord” or “God.” As centuries passed, this superstition spread and the ancient pronunciation was eventually lost. *

Some feel that the divine name was pronounced “Yahweh,” while others suggest different possibilities. A Dead Sea Scroll containing a portion of Leviticus in Greek transliterates the name Iao. Early Greek writers also suggest the pronunciations Iae, I·a·beʹ, and I·a·ou·eʹ, but none of these can be proved to be the pronunciation used in ancient Hebrew. *

Misconceptions about God’s name in the Bible

Misconception: Translations that use “Jehovah” have added this name.

Fact: The Hebrew word for God’s name in the form of the Tetragrammaton appears some 7,000 times in the Bible. * Most translations arbitrarily remove God’s name and replace it with a title such as “Lord.”

Misconception: Almighty God does not need a unique name.

Fact: God himself inspired Bible writers to use his name thousands of times, and he directs those who worship him to use his name. (Isaiah 42:8; Joel 2:32; Malachi 3:16; Romans 10:13) In fact, God condemned false prophets who tried to make people forget his name.—Jeremiah 23:27.

Misconception: Following the tradition of the Jews, God’s name should be removed from the Bible.

Fact: It is true that some Jewish scribes refused to pronounce the divine name. However, they did not remove it from their copies of the Bible. In any case, God does not want us to follow human traditions that deviate from his commandments.—Matthew 15:1-3.

Misconception: The divine name should not be used in the Bible because it is not known exactly how to pronounce it in Hebrew.

Fact: This line of reasoning assumes that God expects people who speak different languages to pronounce his name identically. However, the Bible indicates that God’s worshippers in the past who spoke different languages pronounced proper names differently.

Consider, for example, the Israelite judge Joshua. First-century Christians who spoke Hebrew would have pronounced his name Yehoh·shuʹaʽ, while those who spoke Greek would have said I·e·sousʹ. The Bible records the Greek translation of Joshua’s Hebrew name, showing that Christians followed the sensible course of using the form of proper names common in their language.—Acts 7:45; Hebrews 4:8.

The same principle can be applied to translating the divine name. Far more important than the exact pronunciation chosen is that God’s name be given its rightful place in the Bible.

Emusan:
Reading this your reply shows that you that opened this thread didn't know what you're doing before you opened it.

Emusan:
1) Nobody is talking about TRANSLATIONS here.
2) We are still talking about the same HEBREW here since Jesus Himself is an Hebrew man.

Emusan:
3) If I wrote few alphabets down in Yoruba i.e RASADI and as a Yoruba man the original speaker of that language told you an Igbo man that well the original PRONUNCIATION of this word is lost. Though I know it means the name of God! Everyone knows that this is not a problem for the Igbo man since the Igbo man will simply translate the meaning of that name to his own Language BUT where problem will arise is, CAN ANOTHER Yoruba man change the pronunciation? No!

Emusan:
The OTHER NAMES no record that they lost their PRONUNCIATIONS only God's name. Which means almost every Hebrew child knows the ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATIONS of those OTHER NAMES.

Emusan:
Besides, we are not talking about translations but PRONUNCIATION of the original name of God.

Emusan:
How can you call God His actual name when you don't know how to pronounce the name?
Yet God couldn't restore the name.

Emusan:
Besides, since you've been talking about other language, do you mean THE HEBREW people of today would didn't know how to pronounce the original name of God. God will be angry with them for calling Him Lord or God?

Emusan:
We were not told that OTHER NAMES lost their pronunciations but only God's name.
So stop coming with strawman argument.

Emusan:
So how does the PRONUNCIATION of the name lost again and the Apostles couldn't keep it?

Emusan:
Did Jesus Christ pronounce the original name or not that's the question?

Emusan:
Nobody is talking about translations here.
You're the first person to talk about first century Christians, so go back to your post and see what I'm talking about.
This is the crust of the matter, you agreed it's lost but answer my question.
Did Jesus pronounce the original name when He read the book of Isaiah or follow the tradition of men by reading what the name has been change to?

Emusan:
Tradition of men is replacing the name with either Lord or God according to your post.
So answer my questions above.

lovingJehovah:
That is a very uncultured comment to make

Are you talking of an English pronunciation of a word written in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic without translating it? What in the real sense are you asking?


Unbefitting illustration.
You cannot be asking how someone sounded a word in a language that no one speaks. What you do is translate and sound it in the language that you understand. Many names in the old testament were not mentioned in the New testament and yet they have English translations. How are those names sounded?


Thank you! Then sound them to me. How did Jesus sound his name in the ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION because that one too is also a controversy if you truly follow the record.


It is imprudent asking one for the pronunciation of a word in a language that neither you nor anyone living speaks. You must translate before you pronounce. Tell me, how did Jesus sound his name? You do not know yet you are pressing for a question that you cannot answer. You accept Jesus but that is not the original pronunciation but a translated version. Here are the words, YHWH, now sound it if you have the spirit of God in you.

You keep insulting God. You have the name as it was given to the Jews in Aramaic in front of you, yet you refute it blaming God for not restoring it. How else can one restore his name? Should he come down because you refute it? No! Time is passing and no one is forcing you to accept it. It is your choice to accept or refute.


First, they are called the Jews not Hebrew people. Secondly, are you referring to the Israelites or the Israelis? Do you know the difference? The Jews are not Christians and they refute Jesus as the son of God. Did they tell you that they do not know the name of God or it is not written in their books? Did you do your research before coming online to state that their translation of the name is different from what you yourself are refuting? Did you read my previous comment? Did you check to see the dead sea scroll in the Museum in Jerusalem attached in my previous comment or did you just rush to reply?

Who is 'we' and who told you that?
Did the apostles keep the pronunciation of Jesus name and you yourself do not know it? You are going too far. Tell me how Jesus pronounced his own name?
Jesus pronounced it many times. In English it is translated Jehovah. Your mates are making efforts to learn the Aramaic and Hebrew languages to be more convinced of the Bible. Are you willing to go the length? I will recommend that to you since you refute the name translated in the language that you speak.

The name was not changed it was translated. Do you really understand what translation is?

The tetragrammaton of the original name is right in front of you, YHWH. If you know hoW Moses himself sounded it, reveal it to us. Is the spirit of God in you? Has it been revealed to you? That is the same question you asked about the JW. We have made an effort to advertise the name that we believe in, Jehovah.

Jozzy4:


Well done bro .

Don't mind Emusan, Just remember what 2 Timothy 2:23 said " REJECT foolish and ignorant debates "

Emusan himself uses the name " Jehovah " . so he is just playing cards with you to score cheap points .

You can visit this thread and see :https://www.nairaland.com/3326585/what-true-name-god-almighty.

lovingJehovah:
Oh cool, thanks for that information, bro. He seems like an apostate.

lovingJehovah:
Are you talking of an English pronunciation of a word written in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic without translating it? What in the real sense are you asking?

Jesus pronounced it many times.

Emusan:

I said it, it's very cleared that you don't understand your own post unfortunately you've started to derail your own thread but I won't allow that.
The simple question I asked after cited different reference from your OP was, DID JESUS HIMSELF PRONOUNCE THE ORIGINAL NAME WHEN HE READ THAT PORTION OF ISAIAH?

Emusan:
Points deducing from your OP are:
1) The original pronunciation name of God had been lost.

[quote author=Emusan post=62832826] 2) The fear of pronouncing God's name in vain had caused the Jews to substitute it for Lord or God.

Emusan:
3) This substitution brought about the tradition of men being followed

Now if Jesus actually read that portion of Isaiah and the original name of God appeared there

Did Jesus actually follow the tradition of men by pronouncing what was substituted for God's name or He used the ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION?

After all Jesus supposed to know the original pronunciation of the name because His Father will surely teach Him if His Father is so much concerned about it.
You can see that this is different from translations issue but since you people have been programmed only to defend the word JEHOVAH you couldn't understand my points.

Emusan:
This is the simple question have been asking and none of you can't answer instead rumbling and perambulating here.
Can you show us where Jesus pronounce it?
Chech the attached PIC below to see how your own organization refuted your claim.

lovingJehovah:

Will you ever be satisfied with any answer given? You are only here to put the JW down, ain't it? Jesus said that he made the name of the father known and he quoted the Hebrew scriptures to support that. Does that make a sense to you?

Hairyrapunzel
The position of God's name is unshakeable in the Hebrew Scriptures... With the Christian Greek Scriptures, the "New Testament", the situation is different... no ancient Greek manuscript that we possess today of the books of Matthew to Revelation contains God's name in full." The Divine Name that will Endure Forever p.23


This paragraph shows you people agree that the new testament does not contain God's name in full

lovingJehovah:
Oh cool, thanks for that information, bro. He seems like an apostate.

Emusan

So I used all the names of God; be Jehovah

Jozzy4:


copy and paste from apostate websites .

At least you can see the underlined . Comprehend ?

Infact I challenge you to quote the entire article for clarity of thought . dare to

Hairyrapunzel:

[s]
Lol. You say the Bible is perfect yet the most important name disappeared and its only 2000 years later your God gave the sign and asked you people to put the name 237 times in the new testament in your bible.

You see how you reason? Anybody that disagrees with your governing body members interpretation is an apostate. Interesting. I keep learning new things about your religion

You put something never seen in the new testament before. Your whole religion is apostate. They go against the true manuscript only to insert something new. All these based on an assumption that the scribes removed Jehovah from their writeup. In other words, based on hear say you make all your authoritarian doctrines and followers must strictly abide by them.

You people are not even sure about what you believe.
BTW I love your so called apostate sites. They are very informative and have given me an insight to what your religion really is about.

You ain't supposed to be looking at those apostate sites. That means you're watching pornography therefore you will be slaughtered by your Jehovah in Armageddon alongside all non jws. You are committing a disfellowshiping offence.

I no you will hold on to your delusions because your leaders have told you this is your fake life and your real life is the imaginary utopian paradise in your head AKA north korea in the new system. [/s]

Jozzy4:


https://www.nairaland.com/1524683/reason-why-jehovah-witnesses-call

The exact pronunciation of the divine name in ancient Hebrew is not known. (This reason why the EXACT PRONUNCIATION is not known was provided by OP below!) However, the form “Jehovah” has a long history in the English language, first appearing in William Tyndale’s Bible translation of 1530. *

Why is the pronunciation of God’s name in ancient Hebrew unknown? (This is a question asked by OP himself!)

Ancient Hebrew was written without vowels, using only consonants. The Hebrew-speaking reader could easily provide the appropriate vowels.

(Now this is where my crucial point was reaised!)However, after the Hebrew Scriptures (“Old Testament”) were completed, some Jews adopted the superstitious belief that it was wrong to utter God’s personal name. When they read aloud a scripture that contained God’s name, they substituted expressions such as “Lord” or “God.” As centuries passed, this superstition spread and the ancient pronunciation was eventually lost.* (From here, we can deduce the followings:
1. The Jews adopted a SUPERSTITION (This superstition is the TRADITION OF MEN) not to utter the Name of God.

2. They substituted an expression for the ORIGINAL NAME which are LORD OR GOD.

3. This substitution lead to the entire lost of the ORIGINAL PRONUNCIATION of God's name as century passed.

NOW: Prior to the time of Jesus the original pronunciation of God's name is still lost which means nobody knows how to pronounce it, so the ONLY way is to pronounce it either in LORD or GOD.

So, Jesus was given a portion of the book of Isaiah to read and the name of God appeared in that portion.

My question which you people are perambulating over and mixing with your delusions stems from here.

Did Jesus follow the SUPERSTITION of men by pronouncing what God's name was substituted for i.e Lord or God, or Jesus used the original pronunciation of God's name?

Jozzy4:


Is this the article I demand for ?



Go back and comprehend my post, then reply .

Hairyrapunzel:


You have seen the name of the article. It is watchtower's article. Go and look for it. I am waiting for you to say the article doesn't exist that it is fake.

You can Check your jw online library as the whole article is there.
When stating a reference in a research work the journal publishing your work never asks for the full article. Use your brain. I referenced your work to state my opinion.

The bottom line is your leaders have acknowledged that no ancient Greek scriptures ever contained the word Jehovah in them. No matter how you want to hide it by telling me to quote the whole article it won't work. Just read 'the divine name that will endure forever'.

I repeat no ancient Greek manuscript that we possess today of the books of Matthew to Revelation contains God's name in full
Your leaders are even aware.