a study was done some time ago on very little kids at play. It showed that little girls tended to play in a manner to make sure that no one was left feeling cheated and they always showed affection for each other and tried to keep each other happy while little boys where aggressive towards each other and were all trying to see who would beat the others down and sit on top of them all. These little kids have not been intimated into society so it was not like they were told to do that.

It was biology and nature. The effect of different hormones in the two sexes

One thing is that we're all different. I have several friends who all whine about being virgins. They wish that virgins aren't so looked down upon because the guys nowadays want to sample the goods before buying the product. Being a virgin as a woman over the years has changed.It was a thing of pride before but now it's simply a state of a human being. Feminism helped out in doing that. In this last week - i have argued for hours over the phone about this feminism thing with guys and in fact i am tired of doing that but I just want to state the fact that there are feminists and there are FemiNISTS.
Just because some women like being catered to doesn't make it gender role issue. It only tells you that we want the small things to be done while courting because we know after marriage, guys pretty much ignore all this. That's why women cry for revival of romance in their relationship. Guys expect women to cater to them after marriage but before - they pretend to cater to the woman just to get her into bed or into marriage.
There is nothing wrong in wanting to provide for the family but then when you think that it is the thing that gives a man his masculinity, there is a big problem.

j-girl:

Just because some women like being catered to doesn't make it gender role issue. It only tells you that we want the small things to be done while courting because we know after marriage, guys pretty much ignore all this. That's why women cry for revival of romance in their relationship. Guys expect women to cater to them after marriage but before - they pretend to cater to the woman just to get her into bed or into marriage.
There is nothing wrong in wanting to provide for the family but then when you think that it is the thing that gives a man his masculinity, there is a big problem.

The above highlight is synonymous with saying six is not equivalent to half a dozen. How many men want women to do the small things to them while dating? Have you ever considered reversing the roles during dating?
Why should the "small things" be reserved for women alone? why should guys not want the small things done to them too? Is this not the age of "equality"?

Again, stop being presumptious. Providing for your family does not define your role as a man, it is just one of your responsibilities as the head of ur home. chikena.

What do you mean by that? I've heard too many guys complaining about why they have to pay every time. Some even ask their girlfriends to do the cooking for them while courting - Is that not catering to men? The roles reverse after marriage. It's what they call wooing. Men woo girls they like so that they can marry them and then (some) misbehave. Men get small things done for them everytime. Is it calling him once in a while? They love it when their girls worry about them and all these things - we do the bigger work as far as I know.
What about the so-called heads of the house that can't provide for their family but their wives do it? Who are those?
It's a responsibility to provide - i understand but why do a lot of men feel intimidated by wives that make more than them? If the woman does the provision, does that make her the head of the house? If not why?

It's high time the men and their followers on this thread stop complicating themselves with regards to the term Feminism.

My mother's eldest daughter makes twice times that of her controlling husband. However, he is the one who runs the domestic aspects of their home., and the financial one as well He cooks, does the laundry, etc since the wife spends more time at work.

Now albiet it is her who works 18 hrs per day, 7 days per week( every other weekend), the husband dictates what she does with her money. He specifically orders her financial steps, as well as anything other thing she does. She has no say in anything. I believes he decides when they should have sex as well or who she she should vote for etc etc.

This her way of life, allowing herself to be subjected in such a manner has not only reaped havoc her on her life, but has also severed her relationship with her family.

Once I attempted soliciting some reasonable explanation from her "defunct" husband, he used some lame excuse as to why a woman's place should not be equal as that of a man. Too bad he wasn't thinking likewise when he made her work twice times as harder than his lazy a$$.

I grew with a strong mother, who instilled in me the the will to think for myself. I will not be told or pressured into anything because it's supposed to be the norm.

So to ensure that I have the priviledge of doing just that, I decided to work my behind off to ensure a future so that I won't have to sit back waiting for a man to give me spending money, or tell me what colour or made car I should get.

Feminism is not at all about wanting to take over a man's role, We don't have poles, God gave us Holes.

All we are asking is to be treated equally, with the same respect and given equal opportunities to advance just as men. Now tell me, what is so wrong about that?

Feminism has very little to do with women fighting for emancipation, it is mainly for those who feel the need to dominate men.

I thought you were smarter than this. Wes, J-Girl and I spent 4 pages explaining that feminism was NOT synonymous to "men haters". I freaking hate when people make up lies on what they dont understand.


and what is "untrue" about people considering it unnatural for females to discuss serious topics? HOW MANY times has some idiotic guy on this board told a girl in the poltics/religious/tech section to "get out of their discussion and go back tosex/ romance section"? Why else would someone say that if not they believed that females werent capable of discussion such things, if it's not about frills and laces, we dont know what we are talking about. I've heard it more than 3 times here from guys whose IQ are less than room temperature. They cant touch me in a debate and out of frustration they try to belittle me and tell me I only belong on a certain part of the board. Garbage
Take that whole "shahan" situation. NONE of you could believe that she's actually a female. Why? You know why so stop pretending that such things isnt STILL going on.


Wes is 16 and whooping all your asses. Cover your faces in shame eyin people won yin.

I'm tired of repeating myself to those that dont get it so im just gonna sit, entertain myself with the rubbish and continue to roll my eyes.

I always say what will be will be. God has made the man the head of the home just like Christ is the head if the Church. Any other thing out side of those is rubbish. Women should respected and appreciated in any role they see themselves playing.

Still me

i guess divorce is always the wife's fault. she's responsible for the marriage even though she's not the "head". lmao

Lol Wes, that had me cracking up.

and I dont know why you bother responding Donzie, he likes to argue about stuff he knows next to nothing about, I mean he's comparing a person that doesnt cook to feminism, does that even make any sense? I knew what I was saying when I first told michelin that the imbeciles here will just yan a lot of retarded rubbish cos they are so ignorant of the topic.
They can keep on fooling themselves that they know things but they truly are clueless as evident in this pitiful thread.

Can I just ask a lot of the guys are basing their arguments on married women alone!

Hello who is the head of a single female osegwuSo a woman is only free to have rights when shes single

Marriage is a partnership if the husband "TRUELY" loved the wife there would be respect!

A woman is not a breeding/cooking/sexing machine.  I mean hang on a bloody minute I swear when God created EVE she was meant to be Adams compainion not his slave!

osegwu:

Women should respected and appreciated in any role they see themselves playing.

Hm cool


Lady T man, you should just ignore this abnomination of a thread. If you want, read back from where you last did and see the bull that has been spewed, whenever they got annoyed with what Wes had to say as she constantly put them in her place they told her she was too young or she needed to be in a relationship to argue and all sorts of pathetic excuses, despite the fact I can only count VERY few people on this board who are good at discussions as she is.

awon alailoju ti.

"Do you believe in this women emancipation?"

Whatever makes women sleep at night, friend.

Men are not naturally stronger than women just for fun, there's a reason for it. The average man isn't 5'10 and the woman 5'5 for aesthetic purposes!

Donzman:

Men are not naturally stronger than women just for fun, there's a reason for it. The average man isn't 5'10 and the woman 5'5 for aesthetic purposes!

Interesting--by extension, the average Mayan is shorter than the average Senegalese and the average Samoan is heavier than the average Swede. Should we then assume that the "natural" order of the world is to have the Senegalese and the Samoans leading everyone else? How does height/weight difference determine natural leadership positions and so on. This thread is somewhat embarassing. I don't get the knee-jerk rejection of feminism in this thread. It's fine to disagree with it as a method of addressing gender inequality, but equating feminism to just bra-burning and extremism is as accurate as calling Barack Obama a Nation of Islam member because he believes in affirmative action. Everything in moderation, guys.

Men are not naturally stronger than women just for fun, there's a reason for it. The average man isn't 5'10 and the woman 5'5 for aesthetic purposes!

You should do stand-up.

LadyT:

A woman is not a breeding/cooking/sexing machine. I mean hang on a bloody minute I swear when God created EVE she was meant to be Adams compainion not his slave!

Is anyone here putting that label on you? At least i know most of the females in my family dont see themselves that way neither do their husbands see them as such. None of us is advocating turning all wives into slaves.

Then why are some of you men finding it so hard to understand why feminism even exists!

LadyT:

Then why are some of you men finding it so hard to understand why feminism even exists!

We know it exists. What we dont know is how different women interprete it. Some claim it is a struggle for equality, i find it hard to wrap my mind around such a definition? where is the inequality between men and women? in the home? in society? And who are those amorphous people that are discriminating against women?

David I may have breasts you may have balls but we both have brains!

Respect my brain and take your eyes off my tits! Thats the struggle!

You heard the joke why are womens feet so small? So she can get closer to the sink.

LadyT:

David I may have breasts you may have balls but we both have brains!

Respect my brain and take your eyes off my tits! Thats the struggle!

You heard the joke why are womens feet so small? So she can get closer to the sink.

The above highlighted is impossicant!

Seriously, this is a "struggle" that is highly unnecessary. Who are you struggling against? Single or married men?
No one is denying that women have brains even better than men. In college, a girl was second best for 5 yrs out of a class of over 100. No one saw her as a mere breeding machine but as an intelligent colleague.
I will always use my mom as an example, as at last week she was busy attending a conference while my dad was home washing his clothes, doing the dishes and cooking his food. My mom earns more than he does, no one has relegated her to the wash sink and gas stove. She has her career and she is highly respected for that.
Same with most of my aunts.

Respect urself, all the men out there will have no option but to respect you too!

davidylan:

where is the inequality between men and women? in the home? in society? And who are those amorphous people that are discriminating against women?

Fair question, I think. Gender inequality is pretty pervasive, even in a society like the US. There's a persistent pay difference between men and women doing identical or substantially similar work. It used to be said that women earned 75 cents for every dollar earned by a man in the same position, but that statistic is probably not accurate anymore. There is still a definite gap though, which you can google.

Wall Street firms (esp. investment banks) are notorious for their 'glass ceilings' that prevent women from moving into senior management. The barriers in places like this against women can be just as stringent (or even more so) than for black men. Again, if you google firms like Merrill Lynch, you'll read truckloads about the sexist atmosphere.

The most obvious differences are in politics, which is why Nancy Pelosi and Hilary Clinton are such big news this year. Surely you can recognize that previously, women were systematically rejected as presidential candidates or speakers of the House because of their gender and not their abilities to do the job.

Many more examples, but that's how I'd answer the question.

there is a clear difference between stereotype and a deliberate policy of gender inequality.

davidylan:

Some claim it is a struggle for equality, i find it hard to wrap my mind around such a definition? where is the inequality between men and women? in the home? in society? And who are those amorphous people that are discriminating against women?

either you and donz have been smoking the same damn crack pipe or something else is terribly wrong

There's no inequality in society? My grandmother is illiterate, never went to school yet 3 of her brothers did, even her younger brother did. That's not inequality in your eyes? Do you REALLY think that you mom could have been a doctor back in the day? Even now some still dont make the same or even nearly as much money as fellow male doctors? How can you be so oblivious to that fact?
What is so strange about that definition? Btw, good job on ignoring my example about shahan and the constant "you belong in the romance section instead" chants that happen every so often on the board.

Denying the existance of something doesnt mean it truly doesnt exist.

Blah!

I give up

my father went to school, his sister also went to school, however his brother did not = Inequality?

As for the Shahan example - stereotype and inequality are not the same thing. Chikena!

LadyT:

I give up

pls do.

and why didnt your father's brother go to school?

Im willing to bet they didnt STOP him from going to school for reasons like "you dont belong there"

@ThiefofHearts

In contrast to your family, my grandmother went to school with her brothers/sisters, where is the discrimination again?. . .

Fact is that women never saw homekeeping as degrading until these feminists started bullshitting. The man makes money, the mom gets a huge proportion the kids' love and attention. You have fathers upset their kids do not relate to them the way the kids relate with the mothers. For some reason feminists put money making above the love women get from kids and proper childcare, this is the major thing I dislike about feminism. The way it rearranges incentives in homes and makes homekeeping and child rearing seem like second calls acts or something. It hasn't always been that way, women have been proud of their ability to keep their home intact and get the love of their children. Not anymore, women will rather have money than that "Sweet Mother" talk.

ThiefOfHearts:

and why didnt your father's brother go to school?

I'm willing to bet they didnt STOP him from going to school for reasons like "you don't belong there"

Again we are simply guilty of extrapolating individual experiences and touting them off as societal accepted norms. Your grandmother may not have gone to school but bear in mind that some great grandmothers even travelled out of Nigeria for advanced degrees. chikena!

is this a roll call? HERE!  lol
my grand mother went to school (university of exeter)too, i kid you not

davidylan:


As for the Shahan example - stereotype and inequality are not the same thing. Chikena!

yeah the Shahan example is a real good one.
i've been taken for a guy myself when i post on certain topics. I've even gotten "go discuss tampons" comments. others were complimentary though. ok? are girls supposed to be dumb or what?

can you tell me how this sterotype started in the first place?
If it's only a stereotype and you agree that it is, WHY WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT SHAHAN WAS A FEMALE? you even gave compliments e.t.c it means that you acknowledge that women are lagging behind in intellectual an the most influential roles.
you say your sisters, aunt blah blah are professionals. SO WHY WERE YOU SURPRISED SHAHAN WAS FEMALE?
why is it that the fact that Hillary is female is constantly mentioned? Isn't it because women don't usuallly get opportunities to these influential roles as much as men? (the gap is real wide)

what's wrong with women wanting their rights? of course you'll disagree with it.
over 90% of whites disagreed with the emancipation of african american slaves also. did a lot of them know it was wrong? yes. but did they want to lose their power? NO!
some even used the bible to proove and argue that blacks were meant to be slaves.
just as people are using the bible to proove and argue that women are meant to be subjugated.

people got to unite to fight for what they want to get what they want. that's how we got our votes.
that's how women go into professional fields despite the demeaning comments they get about it (they're feminists who believe they can lead too!)
even though there are still a lot who get discouraged (feminism is about encouraging these people).


feminisim is about encouraging women to go into this fields e.t.c and for them to get better opportunities and be recognized.
I personally would be mad if i went somewhere and people say stuff like "i can't believe a black person can be smart" (another common stereotype)

yes it's a stereotype. and feminism is all about defying these stereotypes
you were happy to give me the example of your female principal weren't you?
well feminists will like to see more female principals, politicians, owners, housewives, and self confident women out there!!
they're for the advancement of women because we know that globally there's a huge gap between women an men politically, socially and economically with men far up there an women below.

there was some ad. here on NL yesterday that says that women make up over half of the world but we make up 75% of the poorest people. (can you justify this. feminism is about bringing a balance to this)
women do over half of farm work (YES THIS IS TRUE!!) but they own only 1% of farmland (feminism is about acknowledging that this is wrong and something needs to be done about it)
the condition of women are worser in third world countries where women are given less rights whether directly or indirectly.

@DONZMAN, men are physically stronger for biological reasons. it has to do with their physique and that's why they are more likely to perform manual labor jobs e.t.c
but there's no proove that they are mentally stronger than females. I don't see where being a president, full time worker, author, farmownwer (they do most of the labor anyway) require being physically strong. there are many old feeble president and farmowners.
It's just like saying whites should be priests rather than blacks because black is a color of evil.
it makes no sense. let the physically strong female play footbal if that's what she wants.
let the smart female become president if that's what she wants.
let the really skilled male go into the culinary field if that's what he wants (one of my male friends will be attending culnilary school to become a chef)
let the male do some house chores sometimes to assist the female.


the old victorian sexist times should be over by now. where women's role is just to look pretty and weak.
polygamy is now banned in many parts of the advancing world.
why close the gap a little and beg it to stop there? it aint over until things are balanced.

yeah you gave blacks freedom yeah so what? they need and demand equality too.
feminist movement and civil rights movement didn't come at about the same time for nothing.

Welcome to the age of "enlightened" women. May God save us all!



WesleyanA, your long diatribe is long on fervor but short on real world facts.
Okay, lets make this real simple. What exactly are these "rights" that feminists are fighting for? Perhaps we men are blind to them. Please enlighten us.