mazaje1:

I and many atheist have read and understood the bible. . . .

I'm sorry but that isnt true. 99% of atheism is rooted in a dishonest, deliberate, malicious MISINTERPRETATION of the bible or sometimes just plain ignorance.

U can only speak for your self&not for others. Believers help spread belief i.e Atheists believe in the words of their fellows than they having personal conviction in their individual beliefs. Dawkins helped to spread atheism through his books. So your fellow atheist might have not read a bit of the bible

mazaje1:

I and many atheist have read and understood the bible. . . .

davidylan:

I'm sorry but that isnt true. 99% of atheism is rooted in a dishonest, deliberate, malicious MISINTERPRETATION of the bible or sometimes just plain ignorance.

Honestly, David you are the most dishonest,malicious and ignorant person person, i had ever discussed with. At times i think your problem is much deeper that the religious mane you carry.

How can you know the character of 99% of atheist? Do you know them all, or you have some source with a statistical analysis of atheists.

Most atheists start out as bible believing Christians that becomes uncomfortable with the Christian doctrines, some become atheist due to the hypocritical and intolerant nature of Christians they interact with.

I hear a lot of bull sh.it about richard Dawkins being the father of atheism, to be honest i heard of the name Dawkins the first time here on Nairaland, and up till today, i have not read any of his books or what he looks like. So it is an erroneous assumption that all or most atheists were converted by Dawkins.

I have explained again and again that people do not get converted to atheism, it is a very slow and gradual realization. even our pastor,  mr olaadegbu  in one of his numerous cartoons provided the various steps leading to atheism.

wirinet:

Honestly, David you are the most dishonest,malicious and ignorant person person, i had ever discussed with. At times i think your problem is much deeper that the religious mane you carry.

huh i must have struck a nerve. Quite unfortunate.

wirinet:

How can you know the character of 99% of atheist? Do you know them all, or you have some source with a statistical analysis of atheists.

huh where did i mention anything about the character of any atheist at all? So if i said something like - 99% of capitalism is rooted in deceit . . . does that mean i mean to say 99% of all capitalists are decietful people?

Sometimes you have to marvel at the sheer unintelligence exhibited by certain folks.

wirinet:

Most atheists start out as bible believing Christians that becomes uncomfortable with the Christian doctrines

and here is the fallacy in the entire theory. Being born in a "christian" family is NOT an sign that you are a "bible-believing christian". I doubt you truly understand the DEEP MEANING of that phrase. A true "bible-believing christian" is not one who merely wears the tag, or goes to church or owns a bible. He/she is one who has an INTIMATE, GENUINE relationship with Jesus Christ.

When atheists claim they "became uncomfortable" with christian doctrines what exactly do they mean? That they are no longer comfortable with a lifestyle that demands holiness?

wirinet:

some become atheist due to the hypocritical and intolerant nature of Christians they interact with.

there is no point . . . this is completely illogical. Do those same atheists fail to see the "hypocritical and intolerant" nature of their own fellow atheists? Would they also dump atheism now?

wirinet:

I hear a lot of bull sh.it about richard Dawkins being the father of atheism, to be honest i heard of the name Dawkins the first time here on Nairaland, and up till today, i have not read any of his books or what he looks like. So it is an erroneous assumption that all or most atheists were converted by Dawkins.

Where did i mention anything about Dawkins?

wirinet:

I have explained again and again that people do not get converted to atheism, it is a very slow and gradual realization. even our pastor,  mr olaadegbu  in one of his numerous cartoons provided the various steps leading to atheism.

and of what relevance is this? Where we talking about the speed of "realization" that it takes to become an atheist? What exactly, besides the need to post personal insults, was this post intended to address?

davidylan:

huh i must have struck a nerve. Quite unfortunate.

huh where did i mention anything about the character of any atheist at all? So if i said something like - 99% of capitalism is rooted in deceit . . . does that mean i mean to say 99% of all capitalists are decietful people?

Sometimes you have to marvel at the sheer unintelligence exhibited by certain folks.

and here is the fallacy in the entire theory. Being born in a "christian" family is NOT an sign that you are a "bible-believing christian". I doubt you truly understand the DEEP MEANING of that phrase. A true "bible-believing christian" is not one who merely wears the tag, or goes to church or owns a bible. He/she is one who has an INTIMATE, GENUINE relationship with Jesus Christ.

When atheists claim they "became uncomfortable" with christian doctrines what exactly do they mean? That they are no longer comfortable with a lifestyle that demands holiness?

there is no point . . . this is completely illogical. Do those same atheists fail to see the "hypocritical and intolerant" nature of their own fellow atheists? Would they also dump atheism now?

Where did i mention anything about Dawkins?

and of what relevance is this? Where we talking about the speed of "realization" that it takes to become an atheist? What exactly, besides the need to post personal insults, was this post intended to address?

This would be my last response directed at you. As i said arguing with you is a waste of time.

You made a sweeping statement that atheist do not read and understand the bible. Mazaje answered you and said "I and many atheist have read and understood the bible. . . . " Your response to mazaje was "I'm sorry but that isnt true. 99% of atheism is rooted in a dishonest, deliberate, malicious MISINTERPRETATION of the bible or sometimes just plain ignorance." And then you now tell me that you are not talking about atheists but atheism?

You should have reasoned that i was not referring to you on Richard Dawkins but to Toba, whose post is directly above mine. If you did not notice that, then i am very surprised.

So lets call a spade a spade, you hate atheists as a whole and honestly i do not like your personality (online), so we can tactfully avoid each other.

wirinet:

This would be my last response directed at you. As i said arguing with you is a waste of time.

I honestly would be most relieved, i dont remember reading from you and coming out of the exercise feeling like i learned anything.

wirinet:

You made a sweeping statement that atheist do not read and understand the bible.

no idiot . . . this is what i said - How many atheists have READ and TRULY UNDERSTAND the bible?

Can you read at all?

wirinet:

Mazaje answered you and said "I and many atheist have read and understood the bible. . . . " Your response to mazaje was "I'm sorry but that isnt true.

That is a comment i will stand by. None of you here has shown anything beyond a rudimentary grasp of the bible beyond paraphrasing the nonsense you skim off websites.

wirinet:

99% of atheism is rooted in a dishonest, deliberate, malicious MISINTERPRETATION of the bible or sometimes just plain ignorance." And then you now tell me that you are not talking about atheists but atheism?

If you're talking about capitalism as a system, does that imply that you are infering to capitalists as individuals? What a shame.

wirinet:

So lets call a spade a spade, you hate atheists as a whole and honestly i do not like your personality (online), so we can tactfully avoid each other.

i dont hate atheists, i have some as friends . . . i hate atheism.

your not liking my online personality is none of my business. Feel free to avoid me.

mazaje1:

This is how a wise Christian answered an atheist who was skeptic about the Bible.

A Christian woman had to do a lot of travelling for her business. Flying made her nervous, so she always took her Bible along with her to read and it helped relax her.

One time, she was sitting next to a man. When he saw her pull out her Bible, he gave a little chuckle and went back to what he was doing. After a while, he turned to her and asked,

"You don't really believe all that stuff in there, do you?"

The woman replied, "Of course I do. It is the Bible."

He said, "Well, what about that guy that was swallowed by that whale?"

She replied, "Oh, Jonah. Yes, I believe that, it is in the Bible."

He asked, "Well, how do you suppose he survived all that time inside the whale?"

The woman said, "Well, I don't really know. I guess when I get to Heaven, I will ask him."

"What if he isn't in Heaven?" the man asked sarcastically.

"Then you can ask him," replied the woman.

OLAADEGBU:

If you quiz them a bit as they did Richard Dawkins in the clip I posted earlier revealed[b] you will find out that they are just in self denial of the existence of the Creator.[/b]  All they want is an axiom that allows them to continue their immoral behaviour without their conscience troubling pricking them.  It is just like someone who refuses to open his eyes because he does not want to see the sunshine.  They are deliberately being "ignorant" for obvious reasons.

This summarizes it all. It just makes my belly ache that in the 21st century there are still dudes who still think that the universe came out of nothing.

davidylan:

I'm sorry but that isnt true. 99% of atheism is rooted in a dishonest, deliberate, malicious MISINTERPRETATION of the bible or sometimes just plain ignorance.

This deluded goon is at it again. . . .The problem is that you just deep your head deep in the sands of denial and claim that the atheist or some body else that disagrees with your personal interpretation of the bible is getting it wrongly. The REALITY is that you are the person FAILS to get it or is getting it wrongly. . . .Every body is interpreting the bible wrongly according to another christian which is why there are over 30,000 sect of christianity each accusing the other of ignorance or wrong interpretation and comprehension. . .What is the bible beside a book that people use to create an image of what ever concept of god they imagine based on their experiences, what they have been thought and made to believe, and what they wish for themselves and for others based on the collective writings of ancient people that had different ideas of the god they were writing about. . . .

Read the bible and you will see that the authors had VERY VERY different concept or notion of the god they were writing about. . .To some of the writers their god is just like a super version of themselves hating their enemies and disliking all what they disliked. . .to others god is just like a father figure who is all powerful, all knowing and will always protect them, to others god is just like them, very violent, monovalent spiteful and aggressive he tells lies, does evil and apologies for it, forgets things, is limited in his power, kills people and goes around boasting and shouting that he did it alone, he stains his shirt with people's blood  just to induce fear into the people etc. . . .

Even you do NOT understand the bible because you just pick and chose the teachings that agree with your personal notions about what you will like god to be. . .Your very toxic nature makes you to fall in love with the god of the OT, you consider and tag very the spiteful actions of yahweh as justice. . . .but goes around stupidly haranguing allah a god that is the same with the yahweh you so love. . . .You completely disregard the teachings of Jesus(Jesus was a pacifist according to the bible) like turning the other cheek, giving your coat when some one takes your shirt a loving your enemies and praying for them. . .you just pick and choose and create some imaginary god out of your wishes and desires and present it as if that is what the ultimate teaching of bible. . . . .

There is nothing like understanding the bible, the bible is there for anybody that wants to create what ever concept of god her/she wants to use in creating that concept based on the writings of some ancient people who also had various ideas and concept of who the god they wrote about was. . . . .That is why there are over 30,000 sects of christianity each claiming that they alone understand the true teaching of the bible while every body that interprets the bible differently from them is ignorant or wrong in his/her interpretation. . . .

MyJoe:

I was going to say this. That thread would be something to watch. Mazaje1 with his new but treasured passion flexing his muscles in one corner, and OLADEEGBU the more experienced hand smiling confidently in the other. I won't stick my neck out predicting the end.

We already know the result of the contest and it's in the Scriptures which is fresher than tomorrow's newspaper. 

noetic16:

This summarizes it all. It just makes my belly ache that in the 21st century there are still dudes who still think that the universe came out of nothing.

Please SHOW me anybody here that has said that the universe came out of nothing?. . . .What makes my belly ache more is that in the 21st century there are still dudes who still believe in the already discredited writings and superstitions of unknown men ancient men that did NOT even know what the stars are. . . . .

Thanks to modern science we know what the stars we see are, we know the age of our planet and that of the universe, we have an idea about planetary formation, galaxy formation, we know about the formation of asteroids, comets and we also know our position in the universe and in our solar system etc. . . . .

Even if the universe had a creator its up to you to show or provide objective or empirical evidence to show that the creator is male, is all loving, all powerful, knows all things, likes the small of burnt animals, dislikes women talking in public, likes pacifism, is 3 personalities in one etc. . . . . .

The complexity of the universe has nothing to do with your god which is the creation of men. . . . .

Pastor AIO:

I would love to see a thread that was a comic book dialogue between Mazaje and Olaadegbu. Not that I would read through it, but it would be a nice idea that such a thread existed.

Is Mazaje up to the challenge?

davidylan:

and here is the fallacy in the entire theory. Being born in a "christian" family is NOT an sign that you are a "bible-believing christian". I doubt you truly understand the DEEP MEANING of that phrase. A true "bible-believing christian" is not one who merely wears the tag, or goes to church or owns a bible. He/she is one who has an INTIMATE, GENUINE relationship with Jesus Christ.

Aren't you tired on this lie you keep telling yourselves already?. . . .Do you know what relationship is? Relationship is a two way thing no?. . . .There is nothing like a genuine relationship with any Jesus since the nature of Jesus or god has not yet been fully defined and accepted by christians. . . .According to the 30, 000 different sects that is christianity any body that is outside a particular sect does not have an intimate or genuine relationship with Jesus. . . .

When atheists claim they "became uncomfortable" with christian doctrines what exactly do they mean? That they are no longer comfortable with a lifestyle that demands holiness?

No atheist are uncomfortable with hate and bigotry that mask themselves as "holy doctrines". . . Atheist are uncomfortable with "holy doctrines" that tells them to put all their trust and hope in some imaginary deity is nothing but the creation of ancient men that do not even know their right from their left. . Atheist are not comfortable with "holy doctrines" that tell them to turn the other cheek when attacked or to be pacifist in front of danger, they are not comfortable with "holy doctrines" that encourage slavery, the subjugation of women(women are not supposed to talk in public according to your bible), the ill treatment of gays, hoping on some imaginary deity to protect them or heal them when they are sick, hate of people that do not accept the christian culture etc. . . . .

Most importantly atheist are not comfortable with ridiculous lies and myths that have no basis in any reality what so ever. . . . .

mazaje1:

Please SHOW me anybody here that has said that the universe came out of nothing?

The old mazaje qualifies , . . . , but the new mazaje has dumped that ignorance

. . . .What makes my belly ache more is that in the 21st century there are still dudes who still believe in the already discredited writings and superstitions of unknown men ancient men that did NOT even know what the stars are. . . . .

What are writings and superstitions? The words that have been real for a whole lot of people CANNOT be regarded as superstition? how do u explain the miracles billions of people experience all over the world? on what authority and in what capacity do u deny these experiences?

Thanks to modern science we know what the stars we see are, we know the age of our planet and that of the universe, we have an idea about planetary formation, galaxy formation, we know about the formation of asteroids, comets and we also know our position in the universe and in our solar system etc. . . . .

Mazaje, pls cut the crap.

1. here u are creating the fraudulent impression of an infallible science. . . .this is NOT true. what exactly stops ur scientific gods from telling us how the planets where formed? and when? or the galaxy formation? or the solar system? The illiteracy involved in many scientific assumptions points to ONLY one thing . . , .there is an organised satanic effort to deny the existence of God by "scientists".
otherwise, why start out dismissing the case for a creator?

2. ur science buffons have ignorantly asserted that u evolved from a dead organic substance . . .pls ask them on my behalf, that when EXACTLY did this organism live? was its live recorded? by whom?

3. Science has always been wrong. remember when ur scientific idols claimed that the world is flat? what happened to all ur scientific claims on Noah's flood the moment rootless polystrate fossils were found?

4. why are ur scientific idols unable to list the pioneer chemical elements that kick-started life.

please save all ur scientific LIES/DECEPTION for ignorant dudes.

Even if the universe had a creator its up to you to show or provide objective or empirical evidence to show that the creator is male, is all loving, all powerful, knows all things, likes the small of burnt animals, dislikes women talking in public, likes pacifism, is 3 personalities in one etc. . . . . .

All of the rest are irrelevant on this thread . . . . .what we want to know is if the unoverse has a creator . . . . His identity is not the subject of this thread. If however u are really interested, u can open a new thread for us to thrash that out.

The complexity of the universe has nothing to do with your god which is the creation of men. . . . .

where is ur evidence that my God was created by men?

noetic16:

The old mazaje qualifies , . . . , but the new mazaje has dumped that ignorance

You made a FALSE assertion and all I asked you to do was to prove that your assertion isn't false. . . But as usual you evade the question. . . .

What are writings and superstitions? The words that have been real for a whole lot of people CANNOT be regarded as superstition? how do u explain the miracles billions of people experience all over the world? on what authority and in what capacity do u deny these experiences?

The bible is a book of superstition and myths. . .WHAT miracles are you talking about? Where is the evidence for these miracles? I have said it over and over again if things like prayer works we will NOT be hre having this conversation because the evidence will be self evident. . .Ok now christians claim miracles from prayers all the time, Christians pray to their god for protection and claim that they are experiencing some form of miracle from it. . .Your evidence to show that christians are better protected from harm and misfortune than non christians is WHAT? Over a billion muslims and about a billion hindus all claim to experience miracles from the words of their own religious text too. . . .So there is nothing there all we have are claim but ZERO evidence to show for it. . . .

Mazaje, pls cut the crap.

1. here u are creating the fraudulent impression of an infallible science. . . .this is NOT true. what exactly stops your scientific gods from telling us how the planets where formed? and when? or the galaxy formation? or the solar system? The illiteracy involved in many scientific assumptions points to ONLY one thing . . , .there is an organised satanic effort to deny the existence of God by "scientists".
otherwise, why start out dismissing the case for a creator?

Science has NO gods. . . .It is based on observation and experiments and from there informed conclusions can be made. . .You on the other hand just keep beating the mythical thoughts of anceint people that thought the sun revolves around the earth. . . .Have you read the scientific explanations to planetary and galaxy formation? What illetracy is involved in scientific assumptions Noetic? . . . .What is this satan myth again? what has the satan myth got to do with anything . . .Aren't you guys tried of throwing one myth or the other as explanation to your religious absurdities?. . . .

2. your science buffons have ignorantly asserted that u evolved from a dead organic substance . . .pls ask them on my behalf, that when EXACTLY did this organism live? was its live recorded? by whom?

My brother you can not fight science because it has done for humanity what no god or religion can ever do for humanity. . . .Scientist have proposed their own hypothesis or theories, If you have a better and demonstrable evidence pls provide it and shut them up for ever. . . .The scientific postulations that humans evolved is ignorant and dumb but you belief that some imaginary deity created living things from dirt or using voice is intelligent eh?. . .The fact that the irony escapes you is really ridiculous. . . .

3. Science has always been wrong. remember when your scientific idols claimed that the world is flat? what happened to all your scientific claims on Noah's flood the moment rootless polystrate fossils were found?

I can't believe I am reading this. . .The extent you throw away reality in defending ancient myths is pathetic. . .Which scientific Idol claim that the earth is flat?. . .Does you bible not claim that the sun revolves around the earth?. . .Does the bible not say that evil spirits are what cause diseases?. . .Do you know what "polystrate fossils" are?. . . .The moment you provide a peer reviewed scientific paper that says that "polystrate fossils" were formed by the mythical Noah' flood i will begin to assume that you know what you are talking about. . . .The last time I checked it's even christian scientist that are now claiming that the Noah's flood was a local flood due to the complete LACK of evidence to support the mythical narrative written in the bible. . . . .

4. why are your scientific idols unable to list the pioneer chemical elements that kick-started life.

please save all your scientific LIES/DECEPTION for ignorant dudes.

Scientist have provided very explanations for their theories and hypothesis. . .Their hypothesis sound more plausible even to your fellow christians who are now claiming that the creation myth is nothing but an allegory. . . .

where is your evidence that my God was created by men?

Your god is man MADE and as such he can not be shown to exist on his own independent of man made stories, mythology, man made or human societal acceptance and cultural influence. . .Your god whom you claim to exist on his own and has the ability to talk can not talk except through humans, human fight wars for him, kill others on his behalf, build temples for him, spread his word, offer money and other valuables to him, etc. . . .The day you or any body points to the existence of your god that is independent from man made stories, mythologies, cultural and societal acceptance and history then I will begin to assume you have an idea of what you are yapping about. . .

noetic16:

The old mazaje qualifies , . . . , but the new mazaje has dumped that ignorance

What are writings and superstitions? The words that have been real for a whole lot of people CANNOT be regarded as superstition? how do u explain the miracles billions of people experience all over the world? on what authority and in what capacity do u deny these experiences?

As for miracles we hear about miracles all the time don't we?. . . .

How many theists have read and truly understand the bible?

Pastor AIO:

How many theists have read and truly understand the bible?

the bible is meant for genuine believers in Christ . . . not theists.

davidylan:

the bible is meant for genuine believers in Christ . . . not theists.

Over 30,000 genuine believers in christ all claiming monopoly of who truly understand the bible and its teachings eh?. . . .Example Old earth and young earth creationist. . .  all the people that adhere or hold these opposite views all claim that they alone understand what the bible teaches no?. . . .

What about those that believe that Jesus is the same as god and those that do not believe he is the same as god but a child of god that is presently sitting on the right hand of god?Do they not all base their beliefs based on the teachings of the bible?. . . .Who amongst these people truly understands the bible or is a genuine christian?. . . . .

The Bible is Text.

All text is subject to interpretation.

Pastor AIO:

The Bible is Text.

All text is subject to interpretation.

A text without a context is a pretext.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." -- 2 Peter 1:20-21

Please SHOW me anybody here that has said that the universe came out of nothing?

- Mazeje, the problem is, whilst you have not made this statement expressly, you have drfinitely inferred it. You claim not to know where it came from, but offer no alternative explanation. You contend furiously with people who do, whilst ridiculing and dismissing their claims. This is as good as saying it came from nothing.

I suspect you will have to renounce Atheism at some point, and align yourself with some belief that sits well with your gut feeling - Which is that, there probably is a creator, some being who intelligently designed life. Maybe Agnosticism. Either way, you cannot sit on the fence forever. You will have to jump at some point.

the first question is which Creator? Mazda, Zeus, Allah, Christian God, Hermes, Hera, Jupiter, Mars, Mithra, Jesus, Joseph Smith , ?

Of course, he too pops out of nowhere. Science has taken us beyond that superstition, that a being similar to humans is responsible for life and the universe, then it might as well be a goat too or a unicorn. ID relies on perceived form and perfection. The origin of the BEING is a greater issue. The Big Bang has more solidity than ID. Life is spontaneous and its origin, might as well be.