knotty:

in my opinion somebody is trying to market a product here. my opinion may be wrong, pls but i am entitled to it.
Nero, Stagger and Country man are all one and the same person with many aliases trying to sell a book. ain`t nothing wrong in that but honesty has been compromised.

@OP.
You no get yourself.

are we now in a help market?
someone lost a fortune and is seeking for help and some people are trying to sell help to him


WHAT

In my suggestion to prevent much naira lost if fraud involved on ATM , amount to withdraw daily must be on a mandate N50k below and bank alert must be given less than 5minutes for any transaction.Too poor and so wrong to receive alert a day or 2 days after transaction was performed,what are they alerting ? Alert should be immediate

Wonderful, are their still customer's like this.

Well i once worked in a bank in Nigeria. i was opportune to address a lot of ATM case issue.
so let me first comment from the bank's internal process.
Once a customer lodges a compliant at a bank, the first thing the bank tries to do is to discredit his/her claim (normal Nigerian factor)
however, if the customer insist on his right (either by writing to a higher hierarchy within the bank or creating a scene at either the branch or Head Office of the bank)

This would automatically lead to at least the case been properly investigated- below is usually the trend

1. What bank was the ATM used (if it is the bank's ATM or other bank's)
2. If it is other bank's, the bank writes them to investigate the card used if it is actually the same as the customer's card (as all card produced have a unique PAN number, clone or gueniue)
3. If it is then established that another card was used for the transaction on the customer's account other than his original card tied to the account, the customer would be refunded as soon as it is practicable (depends on the customer).
4. However, if it is the same customer's card, then the bank would ascertain, if the fault is theirs or the customer's.


so the main issue here is do u know you right (which includes that the bank investigate to a logical conclusion even if it is to prove your negligence and not on first claim dismissal)

and if you do, how well are you willing to pursue it (this is where our Nigerian factor comes in and the bank's would definitely take advantage of it, at least they are not operating in limbo)

SO, KNOW AND INSIST ON YOUR RIGHT, IT'S STARTS BY KNOWING YOUR RIGHT

Ok I AM A BANKER AND HANDDLE SUCH CLAIMS.IF U HAVE NOT COMPROMISED YOUR CARD OR PIN DURING USAGE THEN U HAVE A CHANCE,BUT HOW CAN YOU PROVE THAT?SOMEONE MUST HAVE GLANCED AT YOUR PIN WHILE U WERE WITHDRAWING OR ASSISTED YOU AT ONE TIME OR THE OTHER AT THE ATMAND ALSO GOTTEN YOUR CARD DETAILS, TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS DAT 98% OF ALL ATM RELATED FRAUDS ARE DUE TO THE CARELESSNESS OF THE CARD HOLDER OR USE OF THE CARD ON UNSECURED SITES OR LOCATIONS(E.G CYBERCAFE) FOR PAYMENTS, WELL THE ONLY LAPSE I SEE YOU CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IS THE FACT THAT U DIDNT RECEIVE ALERTS FOR THOSE WITHDRAWALS

Taking them to efcc or to your Lawyer will just be a waste of time and energy because all they will tell you is that they are sorry or Ask you if you gave your Atm Card to somebody.i had this same challenge sometime ago which force me to consult some experts and carry out some research.After all have been able to  compile detailed info-manual on how to prevent your ATM FROM FRAUD interested in Getting the free Book call me 07038641600

Agitator and knotty,

Both of you are fools.

But I will not waste my time on you. Afterall, there are others who have said I am the same person with a whole lot of others. I have a right to market my intellectual property, which will prevent people from losing money through ATM fraud.

Come to think of it, do you have any solution to the poster's problem? You just wait until almost a month after I made the post to start talking rubbish here.

I will repeat it again. You are both fools! . People like you can never applaud the efforts of someone who in his own way, will try to put out information that will be of benefit to humanity. You only prefer to buy materials that will promise you how to make millions out of thin air.

I have a right to market my intellectual property. It solves a problem here which as you should have noticed, is something the banks that have promised to keep their clients' money safe, have failed to do.

You don't like it, go piss off and shove your head up your ***.

hi guys,
It seems as if there is something specifically wrong with GTB ATM Cards/system.
I equally have a case like that which I’m following up. I used my GTB ATM card to try withdraw some cash in anambra, but no cash was dispensed. my account was debited. At almost the same time when i was doing the transaction the same day, a withdrawal was made against same account in Lagos, supposedly, with the same atm card i was with in Anambra state.
I had written to GTB for explanation which i'm yet to get.
The cash that did not dispense, that debited my account, GTB record showed that it paid it. I've asked for the pix of the presumed person that collected the cash, but GTB is yet to provide, even after several letters and point calls.
I think there is something fishy with that banks ATM system, or some sharp staff are making some fortune using unsuspecting customer's account.

Dear Nairalanders,

I work with an ATM firm so i know the importance of protecting your pin and card from falling into wrong hands.  
The same situation happened to me. Money was fraudulently withdrawn from my account while i was sleeping in my house with my card in my wallet and i didnt get any alert and e-mail. GTB is fairly efficient with their alerts (txts and mails), so it was strange i didnt get one. I reported the issue the very next day and blocked the card. i was later told that my money was withdrawn from a UBA branch at Ijanikin. After writing the mandatory letter, i was told to wait a week or two. i later got a letter from  a charles Ndak with a generic reponse basically blaming me for the unlawful withdrawal. I know that a stripe card (card without the chip) is easy to clone but then how do they (the fraud guys) get your pin? is it generated using a pin generator? I went to Mr Ndak's office but was prevented from seeing him. But was given the help line and was assigned a person  to help me out. Everytime i called, i would be told that a request had been made to UBA for the images that were captured during the transaction so we can identify the person. I called everyday for almost 2 months and i was told that i should be patient, that they were retrieving the images. Only for them to tell me that the ATM's camera wasnt working at that time. imagine?
I have a few questions;

1. Why is it that i didnt get alert only for the fraudulent withdrawals whereas i had been getting for other   transactions.? Because i know that when a transaction is made on an ATM it 'hits' the banking application and after the transaction has ended an alert is automatically sent to your phone or email as requested. So how come it is[i] only[/i] for fraudulent transactions that people do not get alerts

2. Why did they have to wait almost two months to tell me that there were no images of the withdrawals because the camera wasnt working?

3. Most importantly, why is only GTB that this issue happens to? it is too frequent!!!

4. Can this issue be reported to CBN and how?

i have seen people compromising their pin numbers, at some atm terminals, especially month ends when workers collect salary it is crowded and instead of people to keep their distance to enable the person withdrawing to enter his/her pin discretely.  You will see people shoving even the person collecting and most times they are not bothered only interested in collecting the cash.  I always insist people give me some space, if they refuse I refrain from entering my pin.  You will hear some people abusing you "how much do you have? you think I'm a thief? In fact how did you get the money? and so many derogatory remarks will be made.  There are thieves among them and the honest innocent ones will support them, because to their knowledge you are alleging that they are all crooks.


I agree with the poster, there is need to be very conscious of the people around you when entering your ATM pin to avoid shoulder snurfing. There is no way a successful withdrawal will be made on your account if the fraudster does not have access to either your PAN no or PIN. And these people have perfected diffrerent methods to do that.

To prove that you have not compromised your card is very difficult. My advice is make your case known to the bank in question and CBN. Going through the judicial system may not be worth it afterall.

@ Poster, is it the new GTB Master card ATM or the old ATM?

Awaiting your response.

J-man:

Dear Nairalanders,

I work with an ATM firm so i know the importance of protecting your pin and card from falling into wrong hands.  
The same situation happened to me. Money was fraudulently withdrawn from my account while i was sleeping in my house with my card in my wallet and i didnt get any alert and e-mail. GTB is fairly efficient with their alerts (txts and mails), so it was strange i didnt get one. I reported the issue the very next day and blocked the card. i was later told that my money was withdrawn from a UBA branch at Ijanikin. After writing the mandatory letter, i was told to wait a week or two. i later got a letter from  a charles Ndak with a generic reponse basically blaming me for the unlawful withdrawal. I know that a stripe card (card without the chip) is easy to clone but then how do they (the fraud guys) get your pin? is it generated using a pin generator? I went to Mr Ndak's office but was prevented from seeing him. But was given the help line and was assigned a person  to help me out. Everytime i called, i would be told that a request had been made to UBA for the images that were captured during the transaction so we can identify the person. I called everyday for almost 2 months and i was told that i should be patient, that they were retrieving the images. Only for them to tell me that the ATM's camera wasnt working at that time. imagine?
I have a few questions;

1. Why is it that i didnt get alert only for the fraudulent withdrawals whereas i had been getting for other   transactions.? Because i know that when a transaction is made on an ATM it 'hits' the banking application and after the transaction has ended an alert is automatically sent to your phone or email as requested. So how come it is[i] only[/i] for fraudulent transactions that people do not get alerts

2. Why did they have to wait almost two months to tell me that there were no images of the withdrawals because the camera wasnt working?

3. Most importantly, why is only GTB that this issue happens to? it is too frequent!!!

4. Can this issue be reported to CBN and how?

Report the issue to CBN. . . . .
This is a classic case of an inside job. Someone inside GTB is making the withdrawals and taking customers' money.
Any card can be cloned. . . . .Cloning a card isn't the most difficult task for someone working in a bank who's got all y'all details.

@stagger
I would have thought you'r the same person as the poster especially with your emphasis on your ''INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY'' also used by the poster in his first response to you but on second thought am giving you the benefits of doubts. I just wonder what intellectual property you are so proud to make noise about when somebody lost a large sum of money.

@poster

Old magnetic stripped ATM Cards are very easily cloned so upgrading to the new chip based card may help prevent clones.

If you dont have the money or time to sue the Bank complain to the Consumer Protection Council CPC. A friend of mine lost money in a similar circumstance and complained to the CPC, they have hired a private law firm to handle over 30 cases that have been reported to them so far. That should take the strain off you. But whether the move will be effective (given the Government's way of handling things e.g. not paying on time) I can only wish for the best for you.

@Poster,

Sorry to hear about your predicament.

I blame the Nigeria government, not the banks.

In civilised countries, the government provided an official agency to handle all consumer complaints. Nigeria government should do better.

In the whole of Europe, there are many solutions for handling complaint for all consumers. The European Consumer Centre in various EU countries. The UK website is here:
http://www.ukecc.net and there are links to other EU websites.

Still in the UK, there are many other consumer complaint support agency like: Citizens Advice Bureau, Financial Ombudsman Service, OfCom, etc.

Unfortunately, Nigeria government is doing nothing to protect Nigeria Consumers.

timmy7:

@stagger
I would have thought you'r the same person as the poster especially with your emphasis on your ''INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY'' also used by the poster in his first response to you but on second thought am giving you the benefits of doubts. I just wonder what intellectual property you are so proud to make noise about when somebody lost a large sum of money.

Let me give you some info that will benefit other people here. A lot of cases of ATM fraud have inside help. I will give you a case in point.

Some weeks back, someone close to me lost money from his account. A week before, he had paid for an airline ticket online. When he went to the bank in question, the initial response was that his PIN had been compromised via his carelessness (THE FIRST LINE RESPONSE FROM BANKS).

When he called me, I asked him to get the information on the ATM location where the fraudulent withdrawal was made, as well as the time of the withdrawal. He was told the withdrawal was not from an ATM but from an online banking facility via the bank's website.

I pressed him to obtain the I.P. address of the computer where the online withdrawal was supposedly made. That is when he met a brick wall. Only after persistent pressure was he told that "the information on the I.P address was blank on their screen".

Meaning what?

Two scenarios.

1) Either the bank staff were lying (very possible).
2) Someone in the IT department with access to the bank database where that information is stored had gone the extra mile of deleting the information.
3) An external hacker had broken into the bank's software and was now carrying out a systematic withdrawal of funds to another account (which ought to be traceable).

So tell me, how is it that information that should be readily available should suddenly "appear blank"?

Believe me, I have a lot to talk about ATM fraud but I will not go into all that here. The full information is in the e-book which will only be available for sale for those who want it.

IT IS NOT BEING FORCED ON ANYONE HERE.

As for recovery of funds lost in this process, it will only take something of a landmark case and judgement to get banks to be a bit more accountable. Someone has to take the pain of actually starting a court process in this regard.

How many people know a guy known as Jean-Marc Bosman? He had the guts to sacrifice his own football career to get a court ruling to get clubs to allow players to freely transfer to other clubs at the end of their contracts. Previously, a club had the right to deny a player movement to another club if the transfer fee was too low.

That ruling created what we know today as FREE TRANSFERS, hitherto unknown in European football before 1995. It also eased restriction of transfer of African players to Europe. Footballers today are now enjoying what one man fought for alone.

The question is: who will bell the cat? Who will dare to take a bank to court, get a landmark judgement on refund of lost ATM funds to customers, and get banks nationwide to comply accordingly?

These are questions we should be asking, not fools saying I am the same person with so so and so.

@Poster,

You will be surprised to know that many Nigerians are victims of the illegal ATM withdrawals.

My advice to Nigerians is to start an ATM Revolution in Nigeria. As a way to kick off this process, I will now start a new topic called: ATM Revolution in Nigeria.

Nigerians should share their experience, Lawyers in Nigeria should get involve to seek redress for consumers in group actions, etc.

go there and make some noice , i mean real noise in the banking hall , threaten to tell the media, threaten to dent the image of the bank i promise you, your money go come out .Period! Don't do it like a gentleman man o i beg . goodluck

The truth is that this case is an inside job within G.T.B branch where you took the A.T.M.I opened an account with them last year and I sent my brother to submmit everything since I was not in Nigeria and the lady asked me on phone if I want A.T.M card but I said ''No'' because I dont need it since am not around.I received a mail from their GNS whatever after few days informing me that my naira denominated mastercard which I requested has been sent to my branch, bla, bla, bla, and I replied the mail back that I didnt ask for any masterdard, I actually opened the account to transfer all my fund in millions from one of the rescued bank but since I received that mail,I could not risk sending my money into that account and I left the account with the 30k opening deposit.The person that sent me the notification mail replied my mail but he did something fishy,he changed the senders name and ask for my account number which I gave him but he didnt contact me till today but I dont care and I have made up my mind that I am better of with that rescued bank than this almighthy GTB bank where u can carelessly loose all your money, How can they issue me a naira denominated mastercard when I didnt apply nor sign for it?Something is fishy about that bank and people should be cautious and dont be carried away with their publicity stunt,coz those rescued banks are better off since we all know their situation and the facts that they have been rescued, I know some GTB staffs will come here to critize me but be careful coz I wont bother to display all my correspondence in here, It was good comments from this forum that made me sent my brother to open this account for me but it seems nairaland can be wrong.

@poster I am so sorry this happened to you, You know this got me thinking and wondering how the Fraud detection system works in Nigerian banks. I will tell you my story and that may probably help you take the necessary action.
I am based in the states and I have had an ATM fraud twice. The fraudster used the money to buy airline tickets the first time and the second time, the money was used to buy baseball tickets and to make matters worse, the baseball tickets were sent to my house address, That made it look like i authorized these transactions myself. I went to the bank and filed an ATM fraud dispute claim. You sign some documents and they send it to their fraud detection department to investigate it. The investigation usually takes a few weeks and within those 2 weeks, there are able to know if it was authorized or not. I had my money refunded to me in about a week and within a 90 day period, the fraud investigation went on and they were able to detect the fraudtsers. I dont know what they did with them but my money was refunded in full and I suffered no liability, But like I said earlier thats the American system. It might not waork that way in Nigeria but I will say dont give up on fighting it out tooth and nail. This will teach GTb that they have to tighten up their ATM security measures because of the high level of risk involved.

Elpieda:

@poster I am so sorry this happened to you, You know this got me thinking and wondering how the Fraud detection system works in Nigerian banks. I will tell you my story and that may probably help you take the necessary action.
I am based in the states and I have had an ATM fraud twice. The fraudster used the money to buy airline tickets the first time and the second time, the money was used to buy baseball tickets and to make matters worse, the baseball tickets were sent to my house address, That made it look like i authorized these transactions myself. I went to the bank and filed an ATM fraud dispute claim. You sign some documents and they send it to their fraud detection department to investigate it. The investigation usually takes a few weeks and within those 2 weeks, there are able to know if it was authorized or not. I had my money refunded to me in about a week and within a 90 day period, the fraud investigation went on and they were able to detect the fraudtsers. I dont know what they did with them but my money was refunded in full and I suffered no liability, But like I said earlier thats the American system. It might not waork that way in Nigeria but I will say dont give up on fighting it out tooth and nail. This will teach GTb that they have to tighten up their ATM security measures because of the high level of risk involved.

The thing is. . . . . .There are two kinds of card fraud. . . .
Card Present transaction(ATM/Chip & Pin) AND Card Not Present Transaction(Internet transaction/Telephone transaction).

For the latter, Banks usually refund the victims cos anybody can get hold of any card and use that card to pay for services/order merchandises.
This kind of transactions are not PIN-verified so the Banks take any liability resulting from such transactions

In cases involving the former. . . . .Banks are reluctant to pay the victims because they don't want to believe the victims' PINs can be compromised.
Naija being Naija, i am sure they wouldn't want to pay any kinda refund to anyone be it his own fault or the fault of the system.

@sauron, thanks for that, I actually think mine was a combination of both because in one of my cases, the personal banker said the fraudster got a hold of all my card details including my PIN, They were like it was probably gotten from a form i filled or something and they even asked if i gave out my PIN to anyone but i keot saying no i did not, And they were like maybe some friend of mine has access to my card details and all that stuff, but in the end it get resolved and I think there should be some way to detect stuff like that, cause if they dont find a way to correct this then millions of people will keep getting their money stolen and thats sad,

sorry for what happen to u man, i dont have any advice to give cos i ve not experience such

Elpieda:

@sauron, thanks for that, I actually think mine was a combination of both because in one of my cases, the personal banker said the fraudster got a hold of all my card details including my PIN, They were like it was probably gotten from a form i filled or something and they even asked if i gave out my PIN to anyone but i keot saying no i did not, And they were like maybe some friend of mine has access to my card details and all that stuff, but in the end it get resolved and I think there should be some way to detect stuff like that, cause if they dont find a way to correct this then millions of people will keep getting their money stolen and thats sad,

Every system can be taken apart. . . . .The fraudsters are not resting on their laurels.
Most times they place devices on the ATM. . . . .Wait around in a car with their laptops and copy every date.
Sometimes, gas stations and restaurants are also potential fraud sites. . . .Most of those handy machines have been tampered with to copy data.

@sauron, Oh yeah you are very right, With the advancement of technology comes a lot of information security issues and I doubt if Nigeria is advanced in the aspect of putting the right logical and physical security measures in place to handle such vulnerabilities and mitigate such treats. I only wonder how they intend to resovle issues like war driving and all that crap when the technology becomes even more advanced, They should adopt some ecurity measures put in place by other countries cause it makes me sad to know that our banks are not doing well enough toprotect their customers against fraud, Its not entirely the banks fault cause any information system can be compromised but then they can invest more money in hardening their security measures

@Poster-rily sori bout this ur predicament but im very sure u wnt get far goin to the court,trust me dey do not knw how ur money vamoosed,the best they can help u with is a picture of the guy n dats if he wasnt smart enuff to cover d lens wt his hand wen doin d transaction,u cld also get useless details like d time of withdrawal n all.I work in the e biz unit of a bank too and we receive such complains daily,this is the new yahoo,this guys js sit sumwhr generate ur pin n match it with cards they clone to withdraw,i personally do not have an atm card,i do not want,id rather suffer the inconviniences until nigerian banks get it ryt.i advice u hotlist ur card and use ur cheque or sumtin,we brain storm daily on ways to stop this but before then mayb u js do like i do,go into d bank,its better.if d banks pay money taken tru dis means i can assure u none of dem wld declare 20,000 naira profit.its alarming,i cld scare u wt worse complains i get daily, b more vigilant

@ POSTER, the same faith also befall me last 3 week in the same GTB bank as well,i lost N29,600.
through this so call ATM Fraudster, after several demand letter written to Bank.
My Account officer only persuade me to block d card and request for d new one.
they claim my card was cloaned and may be i attempt to respond to false e-mail on
Account update through Internet, that they can not be held liable.
that how i forget the all show, Hpe urs is not much!!!

Several illegal channels exist for unauthorized ATM withdrawals. These also include 'AIR' transactions or internet-based transactions as well as cloned ATM cards; some even pass for POS-terminal transaction. The criminal might choose to vary his locations or hide his face from the ATM camera. In such cases, the issue of location/terminal or the  identity of the unauthorized user might be useless.  Its either that you compromised your ATM pin or technology failed to produce secured ATM/card channels. You may never win this case against the Bank!

I deactivated my ATM wt my banker since i discoverd that we are nt secured wt it. The first time i used it i nearly lost 20k whch i didnt withdrawn,just dat there's no money left in their machine and when i inserted my card and entered 20k whch didnt come out bt an alert immediately came to my phone that i hv bn debited wt 20k. I hv to pursue it immediately bt i was able to b credited bk in 2wks time.
My broda am no longer using mine since i hv a fat acct and cnt stand it bn liquidated by faceless human being that doesn't knw hw hard i toil to get it.