Ubenedictus:
do you think apostle to the Jews means he will always remain in Israel? well that isn't correct. because the Bible tells us that it was this apostle who was the first to bring the gentile into the Church.


in fact Paul tell us in the book of Galatians that he actually saw the apostle Peter in Antioch, which means it was pretty OK for him to leave Israel and evangelise else where.

in fact the early Christian do tell was that Peter did stay in Antioch and later left it for Rome where he died, unless you are privy to all the instructions Jesus revealed to Peter then I suggest you stop assuming he was never sent to Rome, in fact the great commission was to go throughout the world and proclaim the Gospel. In this issue there is no lie, the historic witness of the early Christian is clear, Peter was in Rome and died there.


sorry it seems you are confusing the Rosary a prayer that is about meditating on the life if Jesus while repeating scriptures and a chaplet which is made of beads. I can pray the rosary without using beads -it seems you are antibeads

The bible says clearly that we are to go to all the world and preach the gospel.
But it also says that Jesus is the head of the church.
He is the one building his church.
So he gave some gifts - and directs his people.
For example, we see God directing Peter to go to Cornelius house.

The fable of peter being in rome is an invention of the catholic church to purport their doctrines.
One other lie told is that peter was the first pope- first the pope is unbiblcal.
Next, they support that by saying peter Gave the pope the "keys of heaven" - another blatant lie.
This lies cant stand except the claim or support with a fable. Which will be that "Peter came to rome".
This isnt so.
The bible clearly says that Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.
Paul also clearly said he wasnt building on another man's foundations!
He wasnt building on Peter's foundations.
see Romans 1 vs 7.

Peter did travel out of Jerusalem where the early church was started and head quartered but not apostolic work.(Gal 2 v 11-13)
. The apostolic work was directed by the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 13 v 2)
Acts 16 v 6 - Here the Holy spirit forbade paul speaking in Asia - It wasnt as paul or any apostle willed.
This were the founding apostles of the church!! The new testament was still being written.
The Holy spirit was giving directions. Saying Peter came to rome is tantamount to saying the Holy spirit directed him to go there (flat lie).

The bids are rosary are pagan in origin.
They arent necessary or enjoined by Jesus or the Holy spirit- therefore they are just traditions of men.
There is not logical way they enable rememberance or whatever of scripture.
The bible is clear that the Holy spirit will guide and bring to your REMEMBERANCE scripture.

Like i said, in all false religious groups - they are some seemingly harmless contrary doctrines preached.
You accept that, then as you get deeper you encounter more and more anti scriptural doctrines and practices until you get full blown errors. This are just breezes to gently blow you off the path of truth.
the bible is the compass. A little error will blow you off course until before you know it you are wide off the mark.
Would Jesus use a rosary?
Would paul?
Students do a lot of cramming, do they use rosaries and beads?

asalimpo:


The bible says clearly that we are to go to all the world and preach the gospel.
But it also says that Jesus is the head of the church.
He is the one building his church.
So he gave some gifts - and directs his people.
For example, we see God directing Peter to go to Cornelius house.

The fable of peter being in rome is an invention of the catholic church to purport their doctrines.
One other lie told is that peter was the first pope- first the pope is unbiblcal.
Next, they support that by saying peter Gave the pope the "keys of heaven" - another blatant lie.
This lies cant stand except the claim or support with a fable. Which will be that "Peter came to rome".
This isnt so.
The bible clearly says that Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.
Paul also clearly said he wasnt building on another man's foundations!
He wasnt building on Peter's foundations.
see Romans 1 vs 7.

Peter did travel out of Jerusalem where the early church was started and head quartered but not apostolic work.(Gal 2 v 11-13)
. The apostolic work was directed by the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 13 v 2)
Acts 16 v 6 - Here the Holy spirit forbade paul speaking in Asia - It wasnt as paul or any apostle willed.
This were the founding apostles of the church!! The new testament was still being written.
The Holy spirit was giving directions. Saying Peter came to rome is tantamount to saying the Holy spirit directed him to go there (flat lie).

what do you think Peter was doing in Antioch? going holidays? that my dear should tell you that he had instructions to leave Israel. Paul was forbidden from teaching in Asia but the Bible never says that Peter was forbidden from teaching away from Israel.

in fact he left Israel and was in Antioch, even Paul met him there.

that isn't a lie, that is the truth!

the historical case is clear, even the Church fathers who compiled the Bible all agree that peter preached and died in Rome after Antioch.

this is a clear historical case and I can quote the early Christian, you just disagree without proof or because your pastor says so.

asalimpo:



If anyone DOES SIN, he can go directly to Jesus and RECEIVE FORGIVENESS.
Instantly.
[b]Nobody can withhold your sins from being forgiven.[/g]
And you can do so immediately without any intermediary.

how? by coming directly to God.
[b]

you see how you contradict scriptures?

the Bible says Jesus gave his Church the power to forgive sin and retain it but you say it is a lie that the apostles couldn't retain sins, who should I believe you or Jesus?


sorry, no sorry I believe Jesus to hell with your opinion.

Ubenedictus:
you see how you contradict scriptures?

the Bible says Jesus gave his Church the power to forgive sin and retain it but you say it is a lie that the apostles couldn't retain sins, who should I believe you or Jesus?


sorry, no sorry I believe Jesus to hell with your opinion.

The bible says that you judge a truth in the mouth of two or three witnesses.
it also says, to study to rightly divide the word,
it says to judge precept upon precept.
I made my case using other bible verses to show that Jesus is the one who CLEANSES and forgives.
You and the catholic church built their doctrine on just one verse!!
Please rightly divide.

When people argue on religion, they first try to be civil and use the bible until the bible contradicts them-then they throw civility to the wind and stick with their own biases.
Let me help you with some more verses concerning sin and forgiveness.
As usual, you can throw them out and hold to your biase (false beliefs or change your mind).
1) Every believer (born-again) is both a KING and a PRIEST before God
1 peter 2 v 9 ; Romans 5 v 17. 1 timothy 6 v 15.

as such they can come before God in that role.
But all these Kings and Priests are under another Priest (Jesus, our great High priest)
and King (Jesus, the King of Kings).
Going thru another human agency is a false satanic doctrine. It's unscriptural.

2) If the christian sins, he can approach God , thru His High Priest, Jesus and Advocate
for cleansing.
1John2v1: My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

Jesus is both our Advocate (he represents us before God) and our High Priest.

3) We are to confess our sins to God and on doing so receive cleansing from Him,through Jesus Christ.
Not through a man.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The new covenant never gives any man power over any man who is a christian to deny him cleansing.
In the light of the NT, catholic priesthood is false.

4) Ephesians 1 v 7:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Redemption is through Jesus and forgiveness is through his blood.
No man can forgive sins.

5) if we strive to live as holy as we can we receive automatic cleansing.
1John1v7:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.


6) Under the new covenant, as a Child of God , you are encouraged to approach God directly.
Not through any human agency.
Hebrew 4 v 16:
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Another verse showing that you are child of God.
Galatians 4 v 6:
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

False religions put human intermediaries between them and whatever God they allege to because all false religions seek ways to control their followers. True christianity is different.
In the new covenant all believers are children of God. Children can approach their father anytime.
1John4v4:
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

asalimpo:

You are on point to an extent but error begins when a doctrine is built of a few verses or when they are taken out of context.
The bible therefore enjoins that the christian must STUDY and that verses must be balanced with other verses (i.e in the mouth of two or three witnesses ).
Common sense and real life experience also factor in-but only in so far as they are scriptural.
First there is a subtle twist in that scripture to justify the man made intermediary.
The verse says, is any one sick call for the elders of the church ...
then it goes on to say confess your sins one to another (this isnt the elders!)
the "another" can be another christian. it could be the elders also. But it is not restricted to them NEITHER does that verse allude to the elders in anyway.

not correct.

the verse on confession begins with the word therefore which make the confession passage linked to the previous sentence about the presbyter... unless you don't understand the meaning of the word "therefore".


And if you don't know in Christianity there are people God put there in the Church to help us on our journey

there are preachers who call people to faith, the Bible says how can they believe unless a preacher is sent,

even after you believe someone must baptise you, you can't baptise yourself, James says if you are sick call an elder...

all these people are to help on the journey they are not obstacles... and if your Church hasn't taught you such elementary things I just wonder what you are taught.

Ubenedictus:


not correct.

the verse on confession begins with the word therefore which make the confession passage linked to the previous sentence about the presbyter... unless you don't understand the meaning of the word "therefore".


And if you don't know in Christianity there are people God put there in the Church to help us on our journey

there are preachers who call people to faith, the Bible says how can they believe unless a preacher is sent,

even after you believe someone must baptise you, you can't baptise yourself, James says if you are sick call an elder...

all these people are to help on the journey they are not obstacles... and if your Church hasn't taught you such elementary things I just wonder what you are taught.

I'm not arguing that the christians doesnt need helpers.
The bible says that we should not forsake the fellowshing together. (Heb 10 v 25)
Jesus , is the head of the church he gave gifts to men:

Ephesians 4 v 11-13:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

He gave people in the body posts and offices, for the purpose of nurturing the converts(shepherds/pastors)
, teaching, etc.
For the perfecting of the saints.
But not for intermediating as the door or access to God.
Under the new covenant, the Children go directly to father or Jesus for prayers forgiveness of sins etc.
This doesnt usurp the role of the people Jesus put in his church to PERFECT the saints.

Ubenedictus:
what do you think Peter was doing in Antioch? going holidays? that my dear should tell you that he had instructions to leave Israel. Paul was forbidden from teaching in Asia but the Bible never says that Peter was forbidden from teaching away from Israel.

in fact he left Israel and was in Antioch, even Paul met him there.

that isn't a lie, that is the truth!

the historical case is clear, even the Church fathers who compiled the Bible all agree that peter preached and died in Rome after Antioch.

this is a clear historical case and I can quote the early Christian, you just disagree without proof or because your pastor says so.

That's nothing but a flat lie.
The bible only mentions the incident in antioch. and says when peter came to Antioch- that's all.
It doesnt say he came on an apostolic visit (the church was still very young).
He could have come on a meeting, to encourage the brethren etc - we have guest ministers who are renowned today visit other countries. Peter was a disciple who had seen Jesus, He was a very prominent apostle. It would be a blessing to have him in the church at rome to encourage the brethren.
Two The Holy spirit was directing the apostles, He sent paul to rome, paul addressed the romans,started churches there. Paul was the apostle to the romans.
The so called historical case is a fabrication by the catholic church to claim that Peter had the keys of Heaven and gave it to the pope!! Total bull.
How else would they build such a lie if not to pick a verse out of context.
God is not a God of confusion or a dumb foolish God! If Paul was in rome, He wouldnt send Peter there,
for what? Two apostles in the same spot, when one could do the work?
Why the duplication?
The whole wide world lay unevangelized and He is wasting twin resources in the same place.
Think!

asalimpo:

That's nothing but a flat lie.
The bible only mentions the incident in antioch. and says when peter came to Antioch- that's all.
It doesnt say he came on an apostolic visit (the church was still very young).
He could have come on a meeting, to encourage the brethren etc - we have guest ministers who are renowned today visit other countries. Peter was a disciple who had seen Jesus, He was a very prominent apostle. It would be a blessing to have him in the church at rome to encourage the brethren.

lol

so what do you think an apostolic visit is? is it not a visit by an apostle to encourage the brethren and bless them.

funny u.

Two The Holy spirit was directing the apostles, He sent paul to rome, paul addressed the romans,started churches there. Paul was the apostle to the romans.
The so called historical case is a fabrication by the catholic church to claim that Peter had the keys of Heaven and gave it to the pope!! Total bull.
How else would they build such a lie if not to pick a verse out of context.
God is not a God of confusion or a dumb foolish God! If Paul was in rome, He wouldnt send Peter there,
for what? Two apostles in the same spot, when one could do the work?
Why the duplication?
The whole wide world lay unevangelized and He is wasting twin resources in the same place.
Think!

this is just assumptions, James was in jerusalem and God still allowed Peter and John to be there for some time.

Paul didn't plant the Church in Rome, in fact when he wrote the book of romans there was already a Church in Rome.

so two apostles can be in one place, and the historical case is pretty clear, Peter was in Rome and died there so too Paul.

asalimpo:

I'm not arguing that the christians doesnt need helpers.
The bible says that we should not forsake the fellowshing together. (Heb 10 v 25)
Jesus , is the head of the church he gave gifts to men:

Ephesians 4 v 11-13:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

He gave people in the body posts and offices, for the purpose of nurturing the converts(shepherds/pastors)
, teaching, etc.
For the perfecting of the saints.
But not for intermediating as the door or access to God.
Under the new covenant, the Children go directly to father or Jesus for prayers forgiveness of sins etc.
This doesnt usurp the role of the people Jesus put in his church to PERFECT the saints.

exactly, that is the work of ministers, they are not obstacles to God, they are helpers and facilitators exercising the ministry they have been given for the perfecting of the saints.

we go to the father directly, we also use the ministries God has given to the Church, to play and anoint for healing, to proclaim forgiveness for a sinner and even retain sins according to jn 20 etc.

asalimpo:

The bible says that you judge a truth in the mouth of two or three witnesses.
it also says, to study to rightly divide the word,
it says to judge precept upon precept.
I made my case using other bible verses to show that Jesus is the one who CLEANSES and forgives.
You and the catholic church built their doctrine on just one verse!!
Please rightly divide.

When people argue on religion, they first try to be civil and use the bible until the bible contradicts them-then they throw civility to the wind and stick with their own biases.
Let me help you with some more verses concerning sin and forgiveness.
As usual, you can throw them out and hold to your biase (false beliefs or change your mind).
1) Every believer (born-again) is both a KING and a PRIEST before God
1 peter 2 v 9 ; Romans 5 v 17. 1 timothy 6 v 15.

as such they can come before God in that role.
But all these Kings and Priests are under another Priest (Jesus, our great High priest)
and King (Jesus, the King of Kings).
Going thru another human agency is a false satanic doctrine. It's unscriptural.

since it seems you are ignorant of Catholic faith allow me to inform you.

we believe that all who are Christians are both priest, King and prophet, as a son of a King I am heir to the kingdom and coheir with Christ.
as a priest I offer up prayers and intercession for myself, other Christian and the entire world.
as prophet, I am called to bear witness to God's truth.

these offices that I participate in are exercised in communion, that means I exercise it with others in a community called the Church, so even though I can pray for myself, I also ask prayers from others...ie approaching God in the company of others and that is also biblically correct

2) If the christian sins, he can approach God , thru His High Priest, Jesus and Advocate
for cleansing.
1John2v1: My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

Jesus is both our Advocate (he represents us before God) and our High Priest.

3) We are to confess our sins to God and on doing so receive cleansing from Him,through Jesus Christ.
Not through a man.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

yes Jesus is the advocate and high priest of the new covenant and he sometimes minister to us through others, he teaches through ordained ministers ad he said " he who hears you hears me" so too he minister forgiveness through ministers according to John 20 and James 5

The new covenant never gives any man power over any man who is a christian to deny him cleansing.

according to John 20:23 this is a big fat lie

In the light of the NT, catholic priesthood is false.

4) Ephesians 1 v 7:
[b] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Redemption is through Jesus and forgiveness is through his blood.
No man can forgive sins.

5) if we strive to live as holy as we can we receive automatic cleansing.
1John1v7:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.


6) Under the new covenant, as a Child of God , you are encouraged to approach God directly.
Not through any human agency.
Hebrew 4 v 16:
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Another verse showing that you are child of God.
Galatians 4 v 6:
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

False religions put human intermediaries between them and whatever God they allege to because all false religions seek ways to control their followers. True christianity is different.
In the new covenant all believers are children of God. Children can approach their father anytime.
1John4v4:
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

sorry you have only succeeded in creating a false dichotomy, forgiveness is through the blood of Jesus and the Bible tells us that Jesus can offer that forgiveness through the ministry of the presbyter in James 5.
we are all God's children and God himself appointed brothers from our midst to feed us, to minister to the Church unto perfection this isn't control techniques, it is the right order in the fami