AlhamduliLlahi Rabil A'lameen wa Solatu wa Salam a'la RasuliLlah.

I was privileged to be part of the guests that attended an _"House Warming Rites"_ of a fellow Muslim few hours ago.

The so called _House warming_ was well attended by other Muslims also.

The _koko_ of the matter is that the owner of the house might have thought or might have not thought he would get a home so soon but as Allah wished, he was granted.

This is a House that everyone of us will own one day, either soon or later.

This is also a House that only the people who worked assiduously when they have the strength will enjoy the goodies of such House.

How are you and me taking advantage of the time we have now to work in order to be part of those who will enjoy the serenity of the House.

Never forget that The Creator Himself created Life and Death in order to test us, who amongst us will be of best good deeds.

We still have the opportunity now to decide how we want the House to be. Is it the one that will be made spacious or the one that will be made so tight than we can ever imagine.
The time is now to be mindful of our acts of worship especially in line with the teachings and practices of our Noble Prophet Muhammad صَلَّى الله عليه وسلم and particularly according to the understanding of our pious predecessors.

May Allah forgive all dead Muslims.

It also happened that one of the luckiest person also became a Landlord yesterday.
Learnt he had been a Kaafir all his life and he was just able to accept Islam just a week to his death.

We pray Allah forgives them all and also grant us the best of ends.

اللهم اختم لنا بحسن الخاتمة ولا تختم علينا بسوء الخاتمة.

Ameen. Jazaakarrahman

What does an almighty all-knowing creator wants to gain in testing his creation, What is so special in it when he already knows the end of everyone. If he's omini-benevolent why does he allow evil to exist?

tintingz:
What does an almighty all-knowing creator wants to gain in testing his creation, What is so special in it when he already knows the end of everyone. If he's omini-benevolent why does he allow evil to exist?

This is a question that I think we all already know the answer, you wonder why a professor in mathematics who has written all kind of textbooks on mathematics still decide to give test/exam to his students in the class. What does this professor wants to gain in testing is students? Will it increase him in knowledge? If he is a professor, why does he has to test his students?
Have you thought about this before?

The answer is simple, if there is no test or exam, will the students read? will the students come to class? Will they obey the rules and regulations of the school? Will he know the serious from the non-serious?

I hope I answered your question

AbdulQaadir:


This is a question that I think we all already know the answer, you wonder why a professor in mathematics who has written all kind of textbooks on mathematics still decide to give test/exam to his students in the class. What does this professor wants to gain in testing is students? Will it increase him in knowledge? If he is a professor, why does he has to test his students?
Have you thought about this before?

The answer is simple, if there is no test or exam, will the students read? will the students come to class? Will they obey the rules and regulations of the school? Will he know the serious from the non-serious?

I hope I answered your question

In as much as I've heard and read this same analogy and excuses from lots of you to make sense out of Allah's action in the Quran you fail to realize the absurdity.

A professor of a study is limited and not perfect, there's no eternal cruel purnishment for people who fail exams, you should also know that people cheat in exams and pass. But in the case of Allah who is said to be all-powerful, all-knowing, he's the beginning and end, he foreknows every single step we take, he knows our end and predestine it but he fail to prevent what could be eternal cruel purnishment for his creation, such thing as evil, hell fire shouldn't exist in the first place if Allah is actually omini-benevolent (all kind, good, merciful) and ominiscience(all-knowing).

The paradox and absurdity here is so obvious that it beg many questions.

tintingz:
In as much as I've heard and read this same analogy and excuses from lots of you to make sense out of Allah's action in the Quran you fail to realize the absurdity.

A professor of a study is limited and not perfect, there's no eternal cruel purnishment for people who fail exams, you should also know that people cheat in exams and pass. But in the case of Allah who is said to be all-powerful, all-knowing, he's the beginning and end, he foreknows every single step we take, he knows our end and predestine it but he fail to prevent what could be eternal cruel purnishment for his creation, such thing as evil, hell fire shouldn't exist in the first place if Allah is actually omini-benevolent (all kind, good, merciful) and ominiscience(all-knowing).

The paradox and absurdity here is so obvious that it beg many questions.

There is a question I would like you to answer, of course I could see from your comment that you believe there is something called eternal punishment, have you ever thought of some that would be provided eternal enjoyment after death?

Why would some be in enjoyment while some would be serving severe punishment when they both lived on this same earth?
The answer is not far fetched, which I will also use an higher learning institution and parts of your statement.

1. In School, there are diff kinds of grade Distinction, Upper Class, Lower Class, pass and fail, name it, which serve as the sows/classify students based on his/her performance, likewise in Islam, there are levels of enjoyment as the Prophet [Peace be upon Him] said:
Verily, Paradise has one hundred levels and between each level is a distance like the distance between the earth and the sky.” [Al-Bukhari in as-Sahih, Kitab al-Jihad, Bab Darajat al-Mujahidin fi Sabilillah, Fath al-Bari, 6/11]

Also, for a student who doesn't come to class nor read his books, disrespects the school authorities, cheats in the examination hall, this kind of student would be punish, likewise those who disbelieve in Allah and those who commits unforgivable crimes/sins would also be punished.

Will you now blame the school for the failure of these students, NO you would rather say they earned those grades based on their performance.

The same way we say in Islam that we are responsible for what we earn, who made the food I ate this mrn? the answer could be the CHEF, MY MOM e.tc would you say Allah cooked for you? NO, Allah provides, while we are responsible for how we use his provisions. This is a choice we are left to make individually, do I want to be in paradise or hell, the manual to both is on the earth, the choice is yours and mine, the I choose decides my final destination.

Allah says: Whatever disaster strikes you is for what your hands have earned, yet He pardons much.
Surat Ash-Shura 42:30

And also I think I should clarify this, being a believer doesn't mean we won't be tested by the ONE we rely on, that's what differentiate we MUSLIMS, in having faith in HIM is that I WOULD BARE WITH WHATEVER YOU TESTED ME WITH, and also I would be praying to HIM not to test me with what would be beyond my endurance and patience.

The evidence for this is where he said in the Qur'an.

Do people think that they will be left to say we believe, and they will not be tried?
Surat Al-Ankabut 29:2

Therefore, the correct course of action is not to blame others for the trials decreed by Allah, but rather to respond to trials with humility. We must understand that trials are sent to test our faith and bring us back to the straight path, whereas Satan tempts us to react to trials with arrogance.

Allah said:

فَلَوْلَا إِذْ جَاءَهُم بَأْسُنَا تَضَرَّعُوا وَلَٰكِن قَسَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

Then why, when Our punishment came to them, did they not humble themselves? But their hearts became hardened, and Satan made attractive to them that which they were doing.

Surat Al-An’am 6:43

Blaming others for our misfortune is merely a way to avoid personal responsibility and is Satan’s tool for obscuring the true solution. Rather, Allah will only improve our situation when we turn inward, critically examine ourselves, and purify our hearts and communities from spiritual diseases.

Allah said:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّىٰ يُغَيِّرُوا مَا بِأَنفُسِهِمْ

Verily, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.

Surat Ar-Ra’d 13:11

There is much to lament for the situation of Muslims in many parts of the world, but blaming external factors is a dangerous distraction. Focusing too much on worldly causes while ignoring spiritual causes will prevent us from seeing the truth. The only way we can lift ourselves out of hardship is to lower ourselves before Allah, to repent to Him with humility and sincerity, to acknowledge our sins, and to improve our inward and outward moral behavior.

AbdulQaadir:


There is a question I would like you to answer, of course I could see from your comment that you believe there is something called eternal punishment, have you ever thought of some that would be provided eternal enjoyment after death?

Why would some be in enjoyment while some would be serving severe punishment when they both lived on this same earth?
The answer is not far fetched, which I will also use an higher learning institution and parts of your statement.

1. In School, there are diff kinds of grade Distinction, Upper Class, Lower Class, pass and fail, name it, which serve as the sows/classify students based on his/her performance, likewise in Islam, there are levels of enjoyment as the Prophet [Peace be upon Him] said:
Verily, Paradise has one hundred levels and between each level is a distance like the distance between the earth and the sky.” [Al-Bukhari in as-Sahih, Kitab al-Jihad, Bab Darajat al-Mujahidin fi Sabilillah, Fath al-Bari, 6/11]

Also, for a student who doesn't come to class nor read his books, disrespects the school authorities, cheats in the examination hall, this kind of student would be punish, likewise those who disbelieve in Allah and those who commits unforgivable crimes/sins would also be punished.

Will you now blame the school for the failure of these students, NO you would rather say they earned those grades based on their performance.

The same way we say in Islam that we are responsible for what we earn, who made the food I ate this mrn? the answer could be the CHEF, MY MOM e.tc would you say Allah cooked for you? NO, Allah provides, while we are responsible for how we use his provisions. This is a choice we are left to make individually, do I want to be in paradise or hell, the manual to both is on the earth, the choice is yours and mine, the I choose decides my final destination.

Allah says: Whatever disaster strikes you is for what your hands have earned, yet He pardons much.
Surat Ash-Shura 42:30

And also I think I should clarify this, being a believer doesn't mean we won't be tested by the ONE we rely on, that's what differentiate we MUSLIMS, in having faith in HIM is that I WOULD BARE WITH WHATEVER YOU TESTED ME WITH, and also I would be praying to HIM not to test me with what would be beyond my endurance and patience.

The evidence for this is where he said in the Qur'an.

Do people think that they will be left to say we believe, and they will not be tried?
Surat Al-Ankabut 29:2

Therefore, the correct course of action is not to blame others for the trials decreed by Allah, but rather to respond to trials with humility. We must understand that trials are sent to test our faith and bring us back to the straight path, whereas Satan tempts us to react to trials with arrogance.

Allah said:

فَلَوْلَا إِذْ جَاءَهُم بَأْسُنَا تَضَرَّعُوا وَلَٰكِن قَسَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

Then why, when Our punishment came to them, did they not humble themselves? But their hearts became hardened, and Satan made attractive to them that which they were doing.

Surat Al-An’am 6:43

Blaming others for our misfortune is merely a way to avoid personal responsibility and is Satan’s tool for obscuring the true solution. Rather, Allah will only improve our situation when we turn inward, critically examine ourselves, and purify our hearts and communities from spiritual diseases.

Allah said:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُغَيِّرُ مَا بِقَوْمٍ حَتَّىٰ يُغَيِّرُوا مَا بِأَنفُسِهِمْ

Verily, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.

Surat Ar-Ra’d 13:11

There is much to lament for the situation of Muslims in many parts of the world, but blaming external factors is a dangerous distraction. Focusing too much on worldly causes while ignoring spiritual causes will prevent us from seeing the truth. The only way we can lift ourselves out of hardship is to lower ourselves before Allah, to repent to Him with humility and sincerity, to acknowledge our sins, and to improve our inward and outward moral behavior.

Thanks for taking your time to reply.

Firstly, to clear you out, I don't believe in eternal purnishment or enjoyment. No one knows what will happen after we die, we just read superstitions about it.

Secondly, You fail to see the problems in your analogy, like I said people cheat and pass, people conducting exams are not ominipresence, so you using that analogy is not the best.

Thirdly, Allah is the creator of all, the source of everything, he's perfect, he's all good but still he allow evil to exist, why will a God purnish his creation for what he caused? Allah has predestined everyone's life, what then is the purpose of a test?

And lastly, Allah is said to be self sufficient, what then does he want to gain in all these things, is there anything special in it that he's really interested in humans worshiping him?

tintingz:
Thanks for thanking your time to reply.

Firstly, to clear you out, I don't believe in eternal purnishment or enjoyment. No one knows what will happen after we die, we just read superstitions about it.

Secondly, You fail to see the problems in your analogy, like I said people cheat and pass, people conducting exams are not ominipresence, so you using that analogy is not the best.

Thirdly, Allah is the creator of all, the source of everything, he's perfect, he's all good but still he allow evil to exist, why will a God purnish his creation for what he caused? Allah has predestined everyone's life, what then is the purpose of a test?

And lastly, Allah is said to be self sufficient, what then does he want to gain in all these things, is there anything special in it that he's really interested in humans worshiping him?

Thanks for giving your reply in paragraphs, I would also take my time to analyze them and give each befitting answers.

Firstly, you said and I quote

I don't believe in eternal purnishment or enjoyment. No one knows what will happen after we die, we just read superstitions about it.

I checked your profile earlier, then I realized I am also communicating with a Muslim, If I am not mistaken, *"I believe that there is no god/God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet."* is what you used as your status, this statement is establishing the fact that you believe in Allah as the only God and Muhammad is His Messenger, that is no body is authorized to say this is lawful and unlawful except Allah through His beloved Messenger, if this is true. This same God mentioned in the Qur'an in affirmation of Hellfire:

"Throw, throw into Hell every contumacious Rejecter (of Allah)! - Who forbade what was good, transgressed all bounds, cast doubts and suspicion; who set up another god beside Allah: throw him into a severe penalty.' His companion will say: 'Our Lord! I did not make him transgress, but was (himself) far astray.' He will say: 'Dispute not with each other in My Presence: I had already in advance sent you Warning. The Word changes not before Me, and I do not the least injustice to My Servants" (50:24-29).

And regarding the affirmation of the Heaven, Allah says:

Then, reflect on a contrasting scene from the Heaven: "And the Garden will be brought nigh to the Righteous - no more a thing distant. (A voice will say 'This is what was promised for you - for everyone who turned (to Allah) in sincere repentance, who kept (His Law), who feared (Allah) Most Gracious unseen, and brought a heart turned in devotion (to Him): Enter you therein in Peace and Security; This is a day of Eternal Life!' There will be for them therein all that they wish - and more besides in Our Presence" (50: 31-35).

I just brought one evidence for each so as not to lengthen this post, I am sure these evidence are enough unless if you want to prove to me that the words of my Creator is a lie, and I swear by the one who has the total control of my Life that the words of my Creator is haqq.

Secondly, you asked that when Allah knows everything, why does he test us?
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)”

[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56].

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

i.e., I have only created them so that I might command them to worship Me, not because I am in need of them.

‘Ali ibn Abi Talhah said, narrating from Ibn ‘Abbaas: “except that they should worship Me (Alone)” means: except that they should affirm their servitude to Me, willingly or unwillingly.

This was the view favoured by Ibn Jareer.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer (4/239).

I know you confused about what is wanted from the slaves of Allaah, which is adhering to His religion which He has chosen for them, and what is wanted for them, which is rewarding the obedient and punishing the disobedient. This is part of Allaah’s decree which will never be altered or changed.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

As for the truth which is the purpose for which He created them – i.e., the heavens and the earth and everything in between them – it is a twofold aim: what is wanted from His slaves and what is wanted for them.

What He wants from us: is that they should know Allaah and the attributes of His perfection, may He be glorified and exalted, and they should worship Him alone and not associate anything with Him, so He alone will be their God, the One Whom they worship and obey and love. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“It is Allaah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allaah has power over all things, and that Allaah surrounds all things in (His) Knowledge”

[al-Talaaq 65:12].

He told us that he created the universe so that His slaves might know the perfection of His power, the all-encompassing nature of His knowledge, which requires knowing Him and His names and attributes, and affirming His oneness.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)”

[al-Dhaariyaat 51:56].

This purpose is what is wanted from His slaves, which is that they should know their Lord and worship Him alone.

As for what is wanted for them, it is recompense on the basis of justice and divine grace, reward and punishment. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And to Allaah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, that He may requite those who do evil with that which they have done (i.e. punish them in Hell), and reward those who do good, with what is best (i.e. Paradise)”

[al-Najm 5 :31]

“Verily, the Hour is coming __ and I am almost hiding it __that every person may be rewarded for that which he strives”

[Ta-Ha 20:15]

“In order that He may make manifest to them the truth of that wherein they differ, and that those who disbelieved (in Resurrection, and in the Oneness of Allaah) may know that they were liars”

[al-Nahl 16:39]

“Surely, your Lord is Allaah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawâ) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His Leave. That is Allaah, your Lord; so worship Him (Alone). Then, will you not remember? 4. To Him is the return of all of you. The Promise of Allaah is true. It is He Who begins the creation and then will repeat it, that He may reward with justice those who believed and did deeds of righteousness. But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieve”

[Yoonus 10:3, 4].

Badaa’i’ al-Fawaa’id (4/971).

I hope this clarifies your doubts,
Thanks for your time.

^^^
@AbdulQaadir,

I'm not a Muslim, I was before but not anymore.

The world is not perfect to have a perfect God, if the world is perfect there shouldn't be chaos in nature e.g natural disasters.

If God is so perfect, why is he not able to know evil will exist and prevent it? Who's to be blame, the creator or creation?

A self sufficient almighty God of the universe shouldn't me so interested in Humans existing in a tiny dust in the milky way Galaxy, talkless of some local part in the middle east.

Over billions of people are unbelievers and we have kind, good people among them, these good-kafir will be thrown to hell by Allah.

tintingz:
^^^
@AbdulQaadir,

I'm not a Muslim, I was before but not anymore.

The world is not perfect to have a perfect God, if the world is perfect there shouldn't be chaos in nature e.g natural disasters.

If God is so perfect, why is he not able to know evil will exist and prevent it? Who's to be blame, the creator or creation?

A self sufficient almighty God of the universe shouldn't me so interested in Humans existing in a tiny dust in the milky way Galaxy, talkless of some local part in the middle east.

Over billions of people are unbelievers and we have kind, good people among them, these good-kafir will be thrown to hell by Allah.

Who defines kindness and being good?

Good-Kafir? Thats like saying cold-hot water...

I drop my pen here

AbdulQaadir:


Who defines kindness and being good?

We humans defines kindness and good.

Good-Kafir? Thats like saying cold-hot water...

I drop my pen here

Lol, let me make example out of you, you're a good person, you show kindness to people, you give charity but you don't believe and accept Yahweh as your God, do you think it's just and deserve eternal cruel purnishment?

tintingz:
We humans defines kindness and good.

Lol, let me make example out of you, you're a good person, you show kindness to people, you give charity but you don't believe and accept Yahweh as your God, do you think it's just and deserve eternal cruel purnishment?

Doing good and showing kindness has its own reward in this life, Imagine a person who's so brilliant but failed jamb/post-jamb exams, then enters into one of the universities without been admitted, studied in the same class with the admitted students for five years, got As in all the exams he did, but will he be awarded a degree just because he performed well? No, he isn't a bonafide student, like wise in Islam, we call something PILLARS OF ISLAM, yes pillars that allows other things to be mount on.

And the first pillar of faith is to testify that there is no god except ALLAH, and Muhammad is His messenger, this is the foundation, if there's no foundation, then what are we talking about?

No matter of the architecture of the house may look like, it all starts with the foundation. If you don't have the foundation, what do you want to mount on.

It's like saying I saw a house with three rooms, 5 pillars, 2 restrooms, 2 kitchen and the house has a roof, but doesn't have a foundation.
Was it built on the sky?

Ponder on these two verses:

(Say: "Shall we inform you of the greatest losers? They are those whose endeavors go to waste while they suppose they do good deeds in worldly life. Such are those who reject the ayahs of their Lord and the meeting [the Resurrection, Reckoning, punishment and reward] with Him and whose deeds, therefore, go to waste. We will not set up any balances for them on the Day of Resurrection [We will not weigh their good and evil deeds because their deeds have gone to waste. They have nothing worthy to be weighed]." [Al-Kahf 103-105]

(The good deeds of disbelievers are like a mirage seen in vast deserts. A thirsty person thinks from a distance that it is water. But when he comes up to it, he cannot find what he expects.) [An-Nur 39]

AbdulQaadir:


Doing good and showing kindness has its own reward in this life, Imagine a person who's so brilliant but failed jamb/post-jamb exams, then enters into one of the universities without been admitted, studied in the same class with the admitted students for five years, got As in all the exams he did, but will he be awarded a degree just because he performed well? No, he isn't a bonafide student, like wise in Islam, we call something PILLARS OF ISLAM, yes pillars that allows other things to be mount on.

And the first pillar of faith is to testify that there is no god except ALLAH, and Muhammad is His messenger, this is the foundation, if there's no foundation, then what are we talking about?

No matter of the architecture of the house may look like, it all starts with the foundation. If you don't have the foundation, what do you want to mount on.

It's like saying I saw a house with three rooms, 5 pillars, 2 restrooms, 2 kitchen and the house has a roof, but doesn't have a foundation.
Was it built on the sky?

Ponder on these two verses:

(Say: "Shall we inform you of the greatest losers? They are those whose endeavors go to waste while they suppose they do good deeds in worldly life. Such are those who reject the ayahs of their Lord and the meeting [the Resurrection, Reckoning, punishment and reward] with Him and whose deeds, therefore, go to waste. We will not set up any balances for them on the Day of Resurrection [We will not weigh their good and evil deeds because their deeds have gone to waste. They have nothing worthy to be weighed]." [Al-Kahf 103-105]

(The good deeds of disbelievers are like a mirage seen in vast deserts. A thirsty person thinks from a distance that it is water. But when he comes up to it, he cannot find what he expects.) [An-Nur 39]

Your argument here is flawed.

I've not seen a university where someone is not admitted but screened and given matric number, and even have gpa? Which kind school be that?

For someone not to be admitted in school but pretend to be a student, is wrong on it own.

Secondly, Universities have rules and regulations, what's consider acceptable in a school might not be acceptable in another school, this is where subjective and objective comes in, societies varies in what they consider moral, morality suppose to be objective but in reality it's not.

Morality has been subjective if we look at history, what is morality accepted in the past is not in the future.

This is to clear you that there's no absolute morality from a God or in a religion.

It's unjustifiable and cruel to purnish a good person just because he didn't believe in your Religion and your God, that God is immoral to me and does not deserve my worship nor anyone's worship.

Kindly judge yourself with the question I asked earlier,

let me make example out of you, you're a good person, you show kindness to people, you give charity but you don't believe and accept Yahweh as your God, do you think it's just and deserve eternal cruel purnishment?

tintingz:
Your argument here is flawed.

I've not seen a university where someone is not admitted but screened and given matric number, and even have gpa? Which kind school be that?

For someone not to be admitted in school but pretend to be a student, is wrong on it own.

Secondly, Universities have rules and regulations, what's consider acceptable in a school might not be acceptable in another school, this is where subjective and objective comes in, societies varies in what they consider moral, morality suppose to be objective but in reality it's not.

Morality has been subjective if we look at history, what is morality accepted in the past is not in the future.

This is to clear you that there's no absolute morality from a God or in a religion.

It's unjustifiable and cruel to purnish a good person just because he didn't believe in your Religion and your God, that God is immoral to me and does not deserve my worship nor anyone's worship.

The same way a University won't give matric no to someone not admitted is the same way Allah will not give Jannah to someone who disbelieve in him.
The same way school has rules and regulations, Allah also has rules and regulations.

The same way you can't claim the studentship of an institution you aren't admitted is the same way you can't claim the mercy of Allah if you aren't admitted by HIM (total submission to him)...

AbdulQaadir:


The same way a University won't give matric no to someone not admitted is the same way Allah will not give Jannah to someone who disbelieve in him.
The same way school has rules and regulations, Allah also has rules and regulations.

The same way you can't claim the studentship of an institution you aren't admitted is the same way you can't claim the mercy of Allah if you aren't admitted by HIM (total submission to him)...

You're still arguing this subjectively, you're not seeing the conflict in this.

There's no one university, there are many universities, the same way there are many Religions.

The way you believe your God will purnish unbelievers is the same way other religions believe you will be purnished by thier God.

Reason outside the box and not only in the box.

tintingz:
You're still arguing this subjectively, you're not seeing the conflict in this.

There's no one university, there are many universities, the same way there are many Religions.

The way you believe your God will purnish unbelievers is the same way other religions believe you will be purnished by thier God.

Reason outside the box and not only in the box.

Then why do you have to question my believe that my God will punish the unbelievers?

AbdulQaadir:


Then why do you have to question my believe that my God will punish the unbelievers?

Because it's immoral and you're not seeing it.

tintingz:
Because it's immoral and you're not seeing it.

Ohhh, show it to me

AbdulQaadir:


Ohhh, show it to me

I've showed you, like this below,

let me make example out of you, you're a good person, you show kindness to people, you give charity but you don't believe and accept Yahweh as your God, do you think it's just and deserve eternal cruel purnishment?

tintingz:
I've showed you, like this below,

This is what differentiate we Muslims, we quote not from our own reasoning but from the sayings of the most HIGH, the one who created all the creations, if you could reject HIS speech, should you accept human reasoning or my reasoning?

Between is sayings and yours which should I hold on to?

His obviously.
I hope we stop this thread here.

AbdulQaadir:


This is what differentiate we Muslims, we quote not from our own reasoning but from the sayings of the most HIGH, the one who created all the creations, if you could reject HIS speech, should you accept human reasoning or my reasoning?

Between is sayings and yours which should I hold on to?

His obviously.
I hope we stop this thread here.

I'm not saying you should abandon your God, Kindly think outside the box for once and answer the question.

tintingz:
I'm not saying you should abandon your God, Kindly think outside the box for once and answer the question.

Can you please give me a brief explanation on what you mean by thinking out of the box

AbdulQaadir:


Can you please give me a brief explanation on what you mean by thinking out of the box

This is to reason out from the four walls you're caged in, reason from the beliefs and doctrines you're indoctrinated with, be open minded. You're too glue to your beliefs that you can't reason without it.

Answer the question with open mind not with your indoctrinated beliefs.

Kindly answer the question I asked.

tintingz:
This is to reason out from the four walls you're caged in, reason from the beliefs and doctrines you're indoctrinated with, be open minded. You're too glue to your beliefs that you can't reason without it.

Answer the question with open mind not with your indoctrinated beliefs.

Kindly answer the question I asked.

You want me to be a free thinker like you, but you don't want to reason like I do(from the words of the CREATOR), is that even just.

“Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) till you follow their religion. Say: ‘Verily, the Guidance of Allaah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.’ And if you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’aan), then you would have against Allaah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper”

[al-Baqarah 2:120]

“Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even after the truth (that Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم is Allaah’s Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allaah brings His Command. Verily, Allaah is Able to do all things”

[al-Baqarah 2:109].

AbdulQaadir:


You want me to be a free thinker like you, but you don't want to reason like I do(from the words of the CREATOR), is that even just.

“Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) till you follow their religion. Say: ‘Verily, the Guidance of Allaah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.’ And if you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’aan), then you would have against Allaah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper”

[al-Baqarah 2:120]

“Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even after the truth (that Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم is Allaah’s Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allaah brings His Command. Verily, Allaah is Able to do all things”

[al-Baqarah 2:109].

I didn't say you should be like me, I said be open minded.

And the things is I used to be a Muslim like you, but that's not the point here.

tintingz:
I didn't say you should be like me, I said be open minded.

And the things is I used to be a Muslim like you, but that's not the point here.

But you are no longer a Muslim, that's the point.
In Islam any thought that goes against the Rules and Laws of Allah & His Messenger would be discarded even if it's thousands in number, that's it.
If Allah had said there isn't Paradise & Hell, why would I be insisting on their existence, but the greatest of all has declared their existence, why would I try to assume his statement, his words, his warnings, his glad tidings are just illusions.

I'hdina SirooTol Mustaqeem

AbdulQaadir:


But you are no longer a Muslim, that's the point.
In Islam any thought that goes against the Rules and Laws of Allah & His Messenger would be discarded even if it's thousands in number, that's it.
If Allah had said there isn't Paradise & Hell, why would I be insisting on their existence, but the greatest of all has declared their existence, why would I try to assume his statement, his words, his warnings, his glad tidings are just illusions.

I'hdina SirooTol Mustaqeem

Wow, ok.

tintingz:
Wow, ok.

I propose you accept Islam again.
That's my best wish today.

AbdulQaadir:


I propose you accept Islam again.
That's my best wish today.

Ok, good luck on your wishes.

AbdulQaadir:


Then why do you have to question my believe that my God will punish the unbelievers?

can the VC of university of Lagos punish students in the university of Ibadan ?

tintingz:
I'm not saying you should abandon your God, Kindly think outside the box for once and answer the question.

religions completely discourage adherents using any sort of critical reasoning !

AbdulQaadir:


But you are no longer a Muslim, that's the point.
In Islam any thought that goes against the Rules and Laws of Allah & His Messenger would be discarded even if it's thousands in number, that's it.
If Allah had said there isn't Paradise & Hell, why would I be insisting on their existence, but the greatest of all has declared their existence, why would I try to assume his statement, his words, his warnings, his glad tidings are just illusions.

I'hdina SirooTol Mustaqeem

actually it was Muhammed that said all those things !