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Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen - Politics (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by resurgent2019: 4:51pm On Jul 30, 2018
Ziggylady:




You really have the personality of a parroting egg-lifter...Just leave this thread already and quit constituting a huge nuisance.

Talkative!.

What is wrong with you?
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 4:57pm On Jul 30, 2018
ignant:


Maybe you should visit the thread then.

75likes, 166likes, 356likes...these were the likes on comments that made direct allusion to igbos on the first page alone. There was no igbo-themed troll on the first page I checked.

If you are aware that ethnicity themed threads beget possible tribalistic comments, then it will be deceptive of you, and probably illogical (I mean no disrespect) , to muse that such fervour will not generate hate and anger on mainstream threads.

Oh, no offense taken.
It takes a little more energy to fight bigots on their turf, and since I know I am likely to lose it on those threads, I stay away.

In any case, I have modified this thread. A pissing contest will be a waste of time. My original data, collected over months is still valid, if subjective, but the revelation of the Onitsha thread takes some wind from my sails because a good argument can be made that the posts on the OAU thread are retaliatory. We could count likes till we are blue in the face, but the truth is that either position becomes harder to defend.

I am now calling out bigots from both tribes.
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Ziggylady(f): 4:58pm On Jul 30, 2018
proffemi:


You don't need my assurances of my sincerity. My post history is in the public domain.


Mr researcher,Why would i or any Igbo need or want your assurances??.We are not the ones who opened this one-sided-view thread.....Your hypocrisy is what i am simply pointing out because Yorubas should be the last group of people in Nigeria to accuse Igbos or anyone of being a tribalist

Fact!.

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 4:59pm On Jul 30, 2018
ignant:

If you are aware that ethnicity themed threads beget possible tribalistic comments, then it will be deceptive of you, and probably illogical (I mean no disrespect), to muse that such fervour will not generate hate and anger on mainstream threads.

My tack is to divide-and-conquer. Never engage bigots in groups. Engage each separately and attempt to reason with them. Otherwise, encourage others to, like you, speak out more forcefully.

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 5:00pm On Jul 30, 2018
Ziggylady:

Fact!.

I gave you metrics on which I based my "facts". Flawed or not, they are there to be critiqued. Where is your evidence, and what metric is it based on?

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by ignant: 5:10pm On Jul 30, 2018
proffemi:


My tack is to divide-and-conquer. Never engage bigots in groups. Engage each separately and attempt to reason with them. Otherwise, encourage others to, like you, speak out more forcefully.

I think your tack will be inefficient. Tribalism, especially on the internet, suffers herd mentality. But unfortunately, divide and conquer won't work here because there will be cries of victimization and how their reaction is retaliatory. You will be accused, and for valid reason, how you should talk to both sides and not put up a thread like this with the former title.

2 Likes

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 5:19pm On Jul 30, 2018
ignant:


I think your tack will be inefficient. Tribalism, especially on the internet, suffers herd mentality...

But exactly. You don't attack a buffalo while its within its herd. Even lions don't do that.
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by resurgent2019: 5:19pm On Jul 30, 2018
Are you guys still on this matter? You all have time oooooo.

Should i take it that none of you have jobs that take up your time?

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by ignant: 5:22pm On Jul 30, 2018
proffemi:


But exactly. You don't attack a buffalo while its within its herd. Even lions don't do that.

Positive comparison of feral animals with obnoxious humans is a little bit mischievous, sir.
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 5:24pm On Jul 30, 2018
ignant:
Positive comparison of feral animals with obnoxious humans is a little bit mischievous, sir.
I assure you that I'm up to no mischief o.
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Nobody: 5:26pm On Jul 30, 2018
knowledgeable:


Reconcile firstly by atonement by your tribe to acknowledge your partaking in genocide against the Igbos, followed by overwhelming Yoruba support for complete restructuring of Nigeria, otherwise, we will go from # 1 poverty capital of the world to something like somali/south Sudan. Politics of tribe, religion & regions over the decades breed backwardness, underdevelopment and poverty.

nonsense... Yorubas have nothing to apologise for and rightly so.....you are just being emotional....i agree we should all get our acts together and stop the hate though

2 Likes

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by e7ejinima: 5:35pm On Jul 30, 2018
proffemi:


Finally, someone capable of articulating a position.

First, let me disabuse your mind of the notion that I am biased. I am a researcher, and arrive at no conclusion unless I have data to back it up. My conclusion is that notwithstanding the fact that tribalism is rife on Nairaland, more ndi'gbo resort to it unprovoked. It is based on months of (subjective!) observation. I hope you agree that if my observations are correct, then my argument is not one-sided? In which case, my question to you is: have you tried to actually collect data on this problem? If you have data to the contrary, I will most certainly eat crow. And gladly too.

Secondly, I agree with you that there is competition between the tribes. Unfortunately, this competition is rapidly becoming very unhealthy. I cannot see how you can find anything funny about that.

In creating this thread, I was not unmindful of the fact that the usual dregs would flood here with all manners of vituperation. I consider my decision to still go ahead with it on a Monday morning a debt paid to posterity, which will ultimately judge us all. The guilty, the innocent, and the insouciant.

Cheers.

The only thing that comes to my mind is to thank and praise you for your aim at being objective. Good, really.

I have done no research myself. No data to back my position on which side is doing it more or has more people doing it. That's the fact.

All I'd like to say is that both sides do it. Lets say i co cede to you that the Igbos do it morw, even if there are fewer Yorubas, those should be reined in too. Unless you can say that you have already done that.

So, Your interjection will become objective whence you advocate that the two sides be cautioned or reined in.

I will tell you a different story on this later.

Gratias

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Nobody: 5:45pm On Jul 30, 2018
Tushkito:
https://www.nairaland.com/4640986/flood-destroys-roads-onitsha-more

I see that OAU thread as revenge.

and looking at that onitsha thread, you probably prove proffemi right if we go by his data..

and only immature people without ambition do the nonsense alot of you are doing..

you like an obnoxious comment in the oau thread,i hope that has make your life better than it is.

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Nobody: 8:37pm On Jul 30, 2018
Sap0:


and looking at that onitsha thread, you probably prove proffemi right if we go by his data..

and only immature people without ambition do the nonsense alot of you are doing..

you like an obnoxious comment in the oau thread,i hope that has make your life better than it is.

Oh yes it does, it does alot.

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 10:06pm On Jul 30, 2018
e7ejinima:


The only thing that comes to my mind is to thank and praise you for your aim at being objective. Good, really.

I have done no research myself. No data to back my position on which side is doing it more or has more people doing it. That's the fact.

All I'd like to say is that both sides do it. Lets say i co cede to you that the Igbos do it morw, even if there are fewer Yorubas, those should be reined in too. Unless you can say that you have already done that.

So, Your interjection will become objective whence you advocate that the two sides be cautioned or reined in.

I will tell you a different story on this later.

Gratias

Thank you very much.
It is always a pleasure to interact with folks who disagree with me while keeping the discourse civil.
I hope interactions like this will encourage others to try to eschew bigotry, and strive for the admittedly harder path of constructive engagement. The point is not - it is never - that we should always agree on issues. In fact a lack of diversity is bad, not good. The key thing is for us not to confuse our disagreement and our expressions of our uniqueness with hatred. On this, you and I appear to be very much on the same page.

I am happy to extend to you a proper handshake across the Niger grin
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by freeze001(f): 10:24pm On Jul 30, 2018
resurgent2019:


Huge sigh, I don’t even know what to say. Oya, I am sorry.

Why did u cut off ur direct quotes that he lifted? Too ashamed? You are particularly fond of touting ur supine repentance from Igbo hate yet u ate quick to use the lowest form of invectives against the particular people u say u have repented from hating and somehow u feel no one sees through ur double-faced, slippery nature?

U appear to have apologised but I'm sure if I read further down and eve on later threads, u will continue in ur dishonest pattern.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by freeze001(f): 10:24pm On Jul 30, 2018
resurgent2019:


Huge sigh, I don’t even know what to say. Oya, I am sorry.

Why did u cut off ur direct quotes that he lifted? Too ashamed? You are particularly fond of touting ur supine repentance from Igbo hate yet u ate quick to use the lowest form of invectives against the particular people u say u have repented from hating and somehow u feel no one sees through ur double-faced, slippery nature?

U appear to have apologised but I'm sure if I read further down and even on later threads, u will continue in ur dishonest pattern.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Juliusmalema: 11:04pm On Jul 30, 2018
Who even made the OP a prof....

A sophisticated m....ron been a prof is liking giving Osama bin laden a doctorate in terrorism

prof of no research and symbiotic value.
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by mightguy(m): 11:06pm On Jul 30, 2018
“ People who think with their epidermis or their Instruments or their clan are the problem to begin with. One does not banish this specter by invoking it. If I would not vote against someone on the grounds of 'race' or 'gender' alone, then by the exact same token I would not cast a vote in his or her favor for the identical reason. Yet see how this obvious question makes fairly intelligent people say the most alarmingly stupid things.

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Curlieweed: 12:00am On Jul 31, 2018
proffemi:


My tack is to divide-and-conquer. Never engage bigots in groups. Engage each separately and attempt to reason with them. Otherwise, encourage others to, like you, speak out more forcefully.

I think your mission can only be described as quixotic. You’re merely tilting at windmills.

Tribalism is simply human nature and expresses itself across the planet in many ways; from rival football supporters in Europe to the left/right divide in the US.

This is how our brains are wired and made worse by the fact that we humans seek and selectively accept information that confirm existing biases. This is universal and has nothing to do with black or white people.( It’s made worse by the fact that we live a synthic, make-believe country.) Even your earlier opening post shows that you’re personally not free from this defect.

The best you can do as a human being is to continually examine your thought processes with some awareness of your personal biases.

Personally, I am firm believer in free speech and a few uncouth comments from both sides is much better than people who periodically go into the streets at the least opportunity to rape and murder people for either not worshipping their god or having a different tongue.

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by omohayek: 7:41am On Jul 31, 2018
Curlieweed:


I think your mission can only be described as quixotic. You’re merely tilting at windmills.

Tribalism is simply human nature and expresses itself across the planet in many ways; from rival football supporters in Europe to the left/right divide in the US.

This is how our brains are wired and made worse by the fact that we humans seek and selectively accept information that confirm existing biases. This is universal and has nothing to do with black or white people.( It’s made worse by the fact that we live a synthic, make-believe country.) Even your earlier opening post shows that you’re personally not free from this defect.

The best you can do as a human being is to continually examine your thought processes with some awareness of your personal biases.

Personally, I am firm believer in free speech and a few uncouth comments from both sides is much better than people who periodically go into the streets at the least opportunity to rape and murder people for either not worshipping their god or having a different tongue.
1. Rape and murder are also "simply human nature", so by your logic we ought to simply let them fester uncontrolled. To say something is "human nature" is in no way to justify simply letting it be: all the negative activities associated with envy, greed, lust, resentment, etc., are just as "natural" to humanity as the rest of our emotions, but all societies use culture, education and law to try to rein them in. Most societies are nowhere nearly as "tribal" as Nigeria, which is why they tend to work better as states.

2. It's not just "a few uncouth comments", virtually all discussions on Nairaland rapidly devolve into tribal squabbling.

3. As much as many of the Igbo commenters on this thread have sought to deny the obvious, proffemi is clearly right in suggesting that tribal comments from the Igbo side tend to get a lot more "likes" than similarly hateful ones coming from Yoruba commenters. This is statistically indisputable, and indeed, this very thread has only added extra support to the assertion.

4. I will venture further to suggest that this imbalance in the level of hate shown in both directions is also reflected in the 2015 electoral results, when Yoruba voters split their votes nearly evenly between the PDP and APC, while 95% of Igbo voters threw their lot behind the PDP: collectivist, "tribal" thinking is simply a lot stronger on the Igbo side than it is amongst Yorubas, who are nowhere as quick to see every adverse political development as an Igbo-led conspiracy, while Igbos see the hidden hand of "Yoruba Muslims" everywhere, even when the ostensible topic has absolutely nothing to do with Yorubas.

As much as I dislike the (frankly, bigoted) obsession resurgent2019 has with Islam, on this particular topic he is 100% correct: it is simply a waste of time for Yoruba commenters to try to engage with hate-filled Igbo commenters online, as most of them are unreachable through reason, and uninterested in any facts that don't bolster their fragile sense of ethnic self-worth. All one will get for the effort is insults and illogical ranting, and most of us have better things to occupy our time with than tussling in vain with poorly-educated ethnic champions.

3 Likes

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Nobody: 8:16am On Jul 31, 2018
omohayek:

1. Rape and murder are also "simply human nature", so by your logic we ought to simply let them fester uncontrolled. To say something is "human nature" is in no way to justify simply letting it be: all the negative activities associated with envy, greed, lust, resentment, etc., are just as "natural" to humanity as the rest of our emotions, but all societies use culture, education and law to try to rein them in. Most societies are nowhere nearly as "tribal" as Nigeria, which is why they tend to work better as states.

2. It's not just "a few uncouth comments", virtually all discussions on Nairaland rapidly devolve into tribal squabbling.

3. As much as many of the Igbo commenters on this thread have sought to deny the obvious, proffemi is clearly right in suggesting that tribal comments from the Igbo side tend to get a lot more "likes" than similarly hateful ones coming from Yoruba commenters. This is statistically indisputable, and indeed, this very thread has only added extra support to the assertion.

4. I will venture further to suggest that this imbalance in the level of hate shown in both directions is also reflected in the 2015 electoral results, when Yoruba voters split their votes nearly evenly between the PDP and APC, while 95% of Igbo voters threw their lot behind the PDP: collectivist, "tribal" thinking is simply a lot stronger on the Igbo side than it is amongst Yorubas, who are nowhere as quick to see every adverse political development as an Igbo-led conspiracy, while Igbos see the hidden hand of "Yoruba Muslims" everywhere, even when the ostensible topic has absolutely nothing to do with Yorubas.

As much as I dislike the (frankly, bigoted) obsession resurgent2019 has with Islam, on this particular topic he is 100% correct: it is simply a waste of time for Yoruba commenters to try to engage with hate-filled Igbo commenters online, as most of them are unreachable through reason, and uninterested in any facts that don't bolster their fragile sense of ethnic self-worth. All one will get for the effort is insults and illogical ranting, and most of us have better things to occupy our time with than tussling in vain with poorly-educated ethnic champions.

Afonja hypocrites as usual trying to cover up with lies.

Imagine they are even using the number of likes as a criteria to judge which side is more hatefull? lol

so the thing dey pain una like this?

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Ziggylady(f): 8:30am On Jul 31, 2018
Tushkito:


Afonja hypocrites as usual trying to cover up with lies.

Imagine they are even using the number of likes as a criteria to judge which side is more hatefull? lol

so the thing dey pain una like this?



You have time to school petty hypocrites crying over 'likes'...Nairaland is littered with their shenanigans against Igbos for eons..They know how to run wild with their mouths and fingers against people but cant take same...

Imagine a so-called Prof collating data on tribalism based on 'likes' on Nairaland..In other words,Hausa-fulanis who gives less 'likes' on Nairaland are less tribalistic according to our resident 'researcher'...smh!

5 Likes

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by omohayek: 8:48am On Jul 31, 2018
Tushkito:


Afonja hypocrites as usual trying to cover up with lies.

Imagine they are even using the number of likes as a criteria to judge which side is more hatefull? lol

so the thing dey pain una like this?
And right on queue comes along another low-IQ tribal champion whose inanities illustrate everything I've been saying. Thanks for playing!

3 Likes

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Curlieweed: 8:49am On Jul 31, 2018
omohayek:

1. Rape and murder are also "simply human nature", so by your logic we ought to simply let them fester uncontrolled. To say something is "human nature" is in no way to justify simply letting it be: all the negative activities associated with envy, greed, lust, resentment, etc., are just as "natural" to humanity as the rest of our emotions, but all societies use culture, education and law to try to rein them in. Most societies are nowhere nearly as "tribal" as Nigeria, which is why they tend to work better as states.

2. It's not just "a few uncouth comments", virtually all discussions on Nairaland rapidly devolve into tribal squabbling.

3. As much as many of the Igbo commenters on this thread have sought to deny the obvious, proffemi is clearly right in suggesting that tribal comments from the Igbo side tend to get a lot more "likes" than similarly hateful ones coming from Yoruba commenters. This is statistically indisputable, and indeed, this very thread has only added extra support to the assertion.

4. I will venture further to suggest that this imbalance in the level of hate shown in both directions is also reflected in the 2015 electoral results, when Yoruba voters split their votes nearly evenly between the PDP and APC, while 95% of Igbo voters threw their lot behind the PDP: collectivist, "tribal" thinking is simply a lot stronger on the Igbo side than it is amongst Yorubas, who are nowhere as quick to see every adverse political development as an Igbo-led conspiracy, while Igbos see the hidden hand of "Yoruba Muslims" everywhere, even when the ostensible topic has absolutely nothing to do with Yorubas.

As much as I dislike the (frankly, bigoted) obsession resurgent2019 has with Islam, on this particular topic he is 100% correct: it is simply a waste of time for Yoruba commenters to try to engage with hate-filled Igbo commenters online, as most of them are unreachable through reason, and uninterested in any facts that don't bolster their fragile sense of ethnic self-worth. All one will get for the effort is insults and illogical ranting, and most of us have better things to occupy our time with than tussling in vain with poorly-educated ethnic champions.

I don’t remember saying that we should give free rein to misbehaviour. I merely compared speech to murder and suggested that speech might be better than rape and murder. On the other hand, we can’t support infringements on speech because of the tender feelings of a few people. Free speech played a very vital role in the development of those societies you tend to admire so much.

With regards to the other parts of your comment, I can’t spare the time and effort to disprove or prove your assertions. I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other. For example, the 2015 election was not the first election in Nigeria. We have had other elections in the past with differing results (And that is if we can put any trust in Nigerian election results). I suspect that you’re simply looking for data to confirm your existing bias.

1 Like

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by resurgent2019: 8:53am On Jul 31, 2018
You guys are still in this issue? Wey I don sleep since yesterday, bath and enter office this morning? Proffemi is really desirous of behavioral change for Nigerians ooo.

Proffemi, which university do you work for sef?
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by fergie001: 9:29am On Jul 31, 2018
proffemi,don't you think this is better?
Thank you....
Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by omohayek: 9:54am On Jul 31, 2018
Curlieweed:


I don’t remember saying that we should give free rein to misbehaviour. I merely compared speech to murder and suggested that speech might be better than rape and murder. On the other hand, we can’t support infringements on speech because of the tender feelings of a few people. Free speech played a very vital role in the development of those societies you tend to admire so much.

With regards to the other parts of your comment, I can’t spare the time and effort to disprove or prove your assertions. I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other. For example, the 2015 election was not the first election in Nigeria. We have had other elections in the past with differing results (And that is if we can put any trust in Nigerian election results). I suspect that you’re simply looking for data to confirm your existing bias.
If I'm simply cherry-picking the facts to support my supposed "bias", why don't you then provide your own alternative facts to undercut my assumptions?

I should point out that it's also quite convenient for you to simply throw your hands in the air and say "I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other", as it would absolve you of any responsibility to either point out any factual errors I've made, or provide a fact-based rebuttal of your own: this way you get to continue arguing that "both sides are equally guilty" without having any empirical evidence to support your preferred position. This way of thinking is in itself a form of bias, akin to the climate-change deniers who seize on the 2% of scientists who doubt it as "proof" that they are on just as solid ground as the 98% of scientists who believe in climate-change.

The unpleasant fact (from your perspective) is that there are several well-known, methodologically rigorous ways of assessing the levels of prejudice in populations, from survey questions, to levels of intra-ethnic violence within communities, to the Implicit Association Test, and there is in fact survey data for Nigeria which shows that levels of tribal prejudice are far lower in the SW than they are in the SE - survey data that was gathered by international bodies, who have no vested interest in making one tribe look worse than another. Even going beyond said survey data, it's clear from the sheer number of Igbos and others who have lived for generations unmolested in the SW that Yoruba people are by far the most tolerant of outsiders amongst Nigeria's major ethnicities. Not once in the last 100 years can you point to a single occasion on which Yoruba mobs have gone out searching for Igbos or other southerners to attack, with the only ethnic clashes occurring with the very Hausa/Fulanis that so many Igbos love to accuse "Yoruba Muslims" of supposedly collaborating with.

As a wise man once said, "Facts are stubborn things", and not to be waved away simply because they don't favor one's preferred view of the world. If you aren't willing or able to counter mine with some of your own, then I see no reason for anyone to think you're in the right, other than because it suits their emotional needs to do so.

2 Likes

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Nobody: 10:17am On Jul 31, 2018
omohayek:

And right on queue comes along another low-IQ tribal champion whose inanities illustrate everything I've been saying. Thanks for playing!

Nope, on the contrary YOU have been illustrating the hypocrisy I have been hammering on about yorubas.

U make a set of rules for u self and make another set of rules for others, u are also notorious for propaganda and lies.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Nobody: 10:27am On Jul 31, 2018
omohayek:

If I'm simply cherry-picking the facts to support my supposed "bias", why don't you then provide your own alternative facts to undercut my assumptions?

I should point out that it's also quite convenient for you to simply throw your hands in the air and say "I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other", as it would absolve you of any responsibility to either point out any factual errors I've made, or provide a fact-based rebuttal of your own: this way you get to continue arguing that "both sides are equally guilty" without having any empirical evidence to support your preferred position. This way of thinking is in itself a form of bias, akin to the climate-change deniers who seize on the 2% of scientists who doubt it as "proof" that they are on just as solid ground as the 98% of scientists who believe in climate-change.

The unpleasant fact (from your perspective) is that there are several well-known, methodologically rigorous ways of assessing the levels of prejudice in populations, from survey questions, to levels of intra-ethnic violence within communities, to the Implicit Association Test, and there is in fact survey data for Nigeria which shows that levels of tribal prejudice are far lower in the SW than they are in the SE - survey data that was gathered by international bodies, who have no vested interest in making one tribe look worse than another. Even going beyond said survey data, it's clear from the sheer number of Igbos and others who have lived for generations unmolested in the SW that Yoruba people are by far the most tolerant of outsiders amongst Nigeria's major ethnicities. Not once in the last 100 years can you point to a single occasion on which Yoruba mobs have gone out searching for Igbos or other southerners to attack, with the only ethnic clashes occurring with the very Hausa/Fulanis that so many Igbos love to accuse "Yoruba Muslims" of supposedly collaborating with.

As a wise man once said, "Facts are stubborn things", and not to be waved away simply because they don't favor one's preferred view of the world. If you aren't willing or able to counter mine with some of your own, then I see no reason for anyone to think you're in the right, other than because it suits their emotional needs to do so.
My God?

una no dey tire, which kine yeye lie be this one na?

Pls we are not fools, this is not the 1970's or 80's where u post lies without solid evidence.

3 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by Curlieweed: 11:26am On Jul 31, 2018
omohayek:

If I'm simply cherry-picking the facts to support my supposed "bias", why don't you then provide your own alternative facts to undercut my assumptions?

I should point out that it's also quite convenient for you to simply throw your hands in the air and say "I don’t even believe their is any objective way of proving any of your assertions - one way or the other", as it would absolve you of any responsibility to either point out any factual errors I've made, or provide a fact-based rebuttal of your own: this way you get to continue arguing that "both sides are equally guilty" without having any empirical evidence to support your preferred position. This way of thinking is in itself a form of bias, akin to the climate-change deniers who seize on the 2% of scientists who doubt it as "proof" that they are on just as solid ground as the 98% of scientists who believe in climate-change.

The unpleasant fact (from your perspective) is that there are several well-known, methodologically rigorous ways of assessing the levels of prejudice in populations, from survey questions, to levels of intra-ethnic violence within communities, to the Implicit Association Test, and there is in fact survey data for Nigeria which shows that levels of tribal prejudice are far lower in the SW than they are in the SE - survey data that was gathered by international bodies, who have no vested interest in making one tribe look worse than another. Even going beyond said survey data, it's clear from the sheer number of Igbos and others who have lived for generations unmolested in the SW that Yoruba people are by far the most tolerant of outsiders amongst Nigeria's major ethnicities. Not once in the last 100 years can you point to a single occasion on which Yoruba mobs have gone out searching for Igbos or other southerners to attack, with the only ethnic clashes occurring with the very Hausa/Fulanis that so many Igbos love to accuse "Yoruba Muslims" of supposedly collaborating with.

As a wise man once said, "Facts are stubborn things", and not to be waved away simply because they don't favor one's preferred view of the world. If you aren't willing or able to counter mine with some of your own, then I see no reason for anyone to think you're in the right, other than because it suits their emotional needs to do so.

Regarding your quip about climate change deniers, I assume you’re probably referring to people who deny the anthropogenic basis for climate change. Climate change is pretty obvious but some people don't agree that the change is anthropogenic i.e originating due to human activity. That is an aside.

It's comic that you're accusing me of bias because I refused to be drawn into the usual Yoruba vs Igbo catfight which is what I thought you should also be avoiding seeing as you're all against tribalism and bigotry. I honestly do not see any benefit in trying to counter your assertion that Igbos are more tribalistic. In the first place, I don't even believe the question of who is more prejudiced is even an intelligent one. It does not help the situation nor does it solve any issues. Unless you think people are generally irrational then the more intelligent approach should be to find out the underlying reasons for prejudice (on all sides) and deal with those.

In the second place, I have enough self awareness to know that my view of who is more prejudiced will be tainted with subjectivity. For example, I grew up in Enugu and did my Youth Service in Ogun State. My experience in Enugu is tainted by the fact that I am Igbo and therefore unlikely to observe any prejudice while my experience in Ogun state is colored by the fact that I am not Yoruba and may experience situations I may interpret as prejudice. Of course I already talked about how we selectively accept facts that support our biases.

P.S. I will like to see a link to the research you talked about here because I am curious about why an international organization would be doing a research to compare prejudice across ethnic groups in Nigeria.

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Re: Ndi'gbo and Yoruba Thought Leaders On Nairaland, Please Rein In Your Kinsmen by proffemi: 5:58pm On Jul 31, 2018
Curlieweed:


I think your mission can only be described as quixotic. You’re merely tilting at windmills.

Tribalism is simply human nature and expresses itself across the planet in many ways; from rival football supporters in Europe to the left/right divide in the US.

This is how our brains are wired and made worse by the fact that we humans seek and selectively accept information that confirm existing biases. This is universal and has nothing to do with black or white people.( It’s made worse by the fact that we live a synthic, make-believe country.) Even your earlier opening post shows that you’re personally not free from this defect.

The best you can do as a human being is to continually examine your thought processes with some awareness of your personal biases.

Personally, I am firm believer in free speech and a few uncouth comments from both sides is much better than people who periodically go into the streets at the least opportunity to rape and murder people for either not worshipping their god or having a different tongue.

What are you talking about?

As I have pointed out, our ability to suppress our first impulse and bring our emotions under control makes us superior to other animals. Overt tribalism can, and should be curbed.

You say tribalism expresses itself in football hooliganism. Very good. Then you probably know that the tribalism of the Ultras of Russian or Italian clubs is a different animal from that of, say, Swiss national team supporters. In other words, tribalism may be a basic instinct, but it can, and often is controlled in normal people. Your apparent thesis that unbridled tribalism is universal holds no water whatsoever.

It certainly doesn't with me. You imply that my earlier opening reveals my tribalism. That accusation can not hold up to the scrutiny of any intelligent mind. I clearly presented my methodology, and thereafter presented my conclusion based on data obtained therefrom. And mind, you, a quick scroll through my post history should show you that this is not a data acquisition process that started yesterday. Arising from that, you can accuse me of using a flawed methodology (as someone did). This would be admissible; this methodology will generate subjective data (I only acquired data from threads I visit, and would display bias in the type of thread I visit). Indeed, this might explain why failed to visit the Onitsha flooding thread. The methodology can be improved (that is how research works), but the existing data supports the conclusion 100%. To read through all that and accuse me of tribalism is to reveal you as a shallow thinker.


The best you can do as a human being is to continually examine your thought processes with some awareness of your personal biases.
And then what? Purge yourself, but allow the world around you rip itself asunder? Let me remind you then that "all that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

... and a few uncouth comments from both sides is much better than people who periodically go into the streets at the least opportunity to rape and murder people for either not worshiping their god or having a different tongue.

You fault my position, but then propose this stupid philosophy? Really? This is relationalism at its worst. We should ignore rabid tribalism just because religious fundamentalism is worse? Do you think the millions killed in Rwanda died happy knowing it was tribal bigots, not religious fundamentalists who killed them? If you think "a few uncouth comments" don't eventually lead to hatred and broken heads, then you must be a child.


If this is your idea of wisdom, then please leave me to tilt at my windmills in peace.

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