budaatum: I can't help thinking there's more behind this than a burqa. But I need not even think since you've shown it's a fear of burqas taking over and everyone being forced to wear one, which I assure you cannot ever ever happen in UK even if everyone says we should, since we are way too stubborn and rebellious for that nonsense.
This is the point my friend. It is Islam itself they hate. You can see that he illustrated his point in his post when he said,
true2god: You need to abandon the mentality of the 7th century illiterate Arab-man (mohammed ibn abdullah) who scammed his fellow illiterates by claiming to receive divine revelation from an imaginary allahh.
Empiree: This is the point my friend. It is Islam itself they hate. You can see that he illustrated his point in his post when he said,
Crystal clear
'The pact of umar' is a classical example of how Muslims, under the khilafa Umar, segregated the demographics based on religion; the ummah (the Muslims) and the dhimmi (the people of the book). For the purpose of easy identification, all the dhimmi are to put on belt on their waist. Why are Muslims, in the western world, trying to recreate the 'pact of Umar' on the host?
You shout: 'they hate Islam' while Islam, for many centuries, had been the most oppressive ideology known to mankind. Why won't a rational person be mindful of this evil wherever it rules or raised its ugly head, eg Europe and the US? Why creating, subtly, another 'pact of umar' on your host who protected and provided for you?
I have a Muslim friend who left his banking job to go and 'hustle' in Austria. Upon getting to Austria he was so amazed at the beauty, organization and generosity of the Austrian people. Instead of him to appreciate what saw he had a mixed feelings about the country. He was happy he had left Nigeria but was also sad that the Austrians are 'kafirs' because they are mostly Christians, whether cultural or practicing.
Having spent less than 2 months in Austria he confided to his fellow Muslim friend that Austria would have been better if it were a Muslim country. That they should use the freedom of religion granted to everybody to convert as much people as possible so that it can become a Muslim nation in the future. This is a guy that left his banking job in Nigeria already scheming against the generous host country. This is Islamic mentality!
You can deny as much as you like but we will keep telling you gospel truth; you don't bite the fingers that feed you and expect another meal from same fingers. Muslims, like babies, don't mind biting their mother's nipples while being suckled. You guys must start learning how to respect and appreciate the society that accommodate you.
I don't need to tell you how the fulanis became the masters of the hausas in the northern Nigeria's traditional and precolonial ruling system. The script are the same worldwide. Use your brain boy!
true2god: 'The pact of umar' is a classical example of how Muslims, under the khilafa Umar, segregated the demographics based on religion; the ummah (the Muslims) and the dhimmi (the people of the book). For the purpose of easy identification, all the dhimmi are to put on belt on their waist. Why are Muslims, in the western world, trying to recreate the 'pact of Umar' on the host?
You shout: 'they hate Islam' while Islam, for many centuries, had been the most oppressive ideology known to mankind. Why won't a rational person be mindful of this evil wherever it rules or raised its ugly head, eg Europe and the US? Why creating, subtly, another 'pact of umar' on your host who protected and provided for you?
I have a Muslim friend who left his banking job to go and 'hustle' in Austria. Upon getting to Austria he was so amazed at the beauty, organization and generosity of the Austrian people. Instead of him to appreciate what saw he had a mixed feelings about the country. He was happy he had left Nigeria but was also sad that the Austrians are 'kafirs' because they are mostly Christians, whether cultural or practicing.
Having spent less than 2 months in Austria he confided to his fellow Muslim friend that Austria would have been better if it were a Muslim country. That they should use the freedom of religion granted to everybody to convert as much people as possible so that it can become a Muslim nation in the future. This is a guy that left his banking job in Nigeria already scheming against the generous host country. This is Islamic mentality!
You can deny as much as you like but we will keep telling you gospel truth; you don't bite the fingers that feed you and expect another meal from same fingers. Muslims, like babies, don't mind biting their mother's nipples while being suckled. You guys must start learning how to respect and appreciate the society that accommodate you.
I don't need to tell you how the fulanis became the masters of the hausas in the northern Nigeria's traditional and precolonial ruling system. The script are the same worldwide. Use your brain boy!
You failed to tell us the difference btw muslims and christians in the link below
Having spent less than 2 months in Austria he confided to his fellow Muslim friend that Austria would have been better if it were a Muslim country. That they should use the freedom of religion granted to everybody to convert as much people as possible so that it can become a Muslim nation in the future.
I'm beginning to worry about you. Your Muslim friend says the above, and you are not rolling on the floor, holding your belly laughing your head off. Instead, you de fear! How does your Muslim friend plan to "convert as many people as possible" please? Is your friend planning to put Islam in the water and affect everyone? Or maybe put on a burqa and blow the Austrians up and watch them all run to Islam?
I wonder if you even bothered to tell your friend what the foundations and source of the "beauty, organization and generosity of the Austrian people" was even if you had to lie or state it as you understand it to be.
Pity, if you didn't. You lost a great opportunity there all because of your irrational fear of your stupid ignorant "Muslim friend who left his banking job to go and 'hustle' in Austria".
Newsnight did a wonderful program about immigration in Europe which must be seen. It deserves a thread of its own but since it's related, I've posted it here.
Bishop calls for burka ban: Pakistani-born Church of England cleric voices support for outlawing veil in public • A senior bishop has called for a near-total ban on the wearing of burkas in public • Michael Nazir-Ali, said they should be outlawed in a wide range of situations • He said they should be banned where there were security and safety concerns By JONATHAN PETRE FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY PUBLISHED: 22:02, 11 August 2018 | UPDATED: 23:17, 11 August 2018
A senior Church of England bishop last night called for a near-total ban on the wearing of burkas in public.
The former Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali, said burkas and niqabs should be outlawed in a wide range of situations where people interact, including in hospitals, GP surgeries, universities and schools.
The cleric said a ban should also extend to areas where there were legitimate security and safety concerns, such as at airports or while driving a car. However, he said it was acceptable for women to wear face veils at home, while in the street and at prayer.
The controversial call from the Pakistani-born bishop, who led the Diocese of Rochester between 1994 and 2009, drew support last night from Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury. Lord Carey said 'oppressive' veils should not become 'normalised.'
Their comments represent the most powerful intervention to date by senior clerics on the issue. They are likely to add to the fierce debate sparked last week when former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson wrote a newspaper article on why he opposed a ban on veils in public but compared women in burkas to 'letter boxes' and 'bank robbers.'
His comments have prompted an investigation by the Conservative Party.
Bishop Nazir-Ali told The Mail on Sunday: 'We have all seen how even male terrorists have escaped arrest by donning a burka and making an effective getaway.'
'For reasons of national security, there will be places like Parliament or Whitehall or town halls and council chambers where the burka should not be allowed.'
He said institutions including universities and schools were justified in wanting to know the identities of visitors or those who worked or studied there.
Staff at airports and courts also needed to see people's faces.
Perhaps more controversially, he added: 'Many professions require personal interaction with the client. In business, both the trader and the customer should be able to see one another's face and to interpret expressions if the transaction is to be mutually beneficial. This is even more true of doctors, dentists, nurses and paramedics.'
Warning of the threat posed by the wearing of veils, he said: ‘It is true that some women choose to wear the burka or niqab because they feel it makes them more observant Muslims…
‘It is also true, however, that the burka or niqab is being weaponised by Islamists to impose what they consider to be "Islamic" character on communities, neighbourhoods and even nations.
'In Britain, this has serious implications for the freedom of women, but it also has implications for integration and social cohesion. Where there is widespread use of the face veil, there will be greater isolation from one another and a sense of segregation will grow.'
Lord Carey, Archbishop of Canterbury between 1991 and 2002, said he 'strongly supported' the position taken by Bishop Nazir-Ali.
He said: 'We need to be able to identify people in government buildings, transport centres and tourist attractions, to take three examples. Security concerns trump cultural rights.'
But Sir Iqbal Sacranie, a former secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said he was 'sad' that such senior Church figures had failed to defend the basic rights of people to wear whatever they chose.
Lambeth Palace declined to comment last night.
l Read the full article by Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali at mailonsunday.co.uk/bishop.
Former Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali: Banning the Burqa
Boris Johnson likes being provocative. My own experience with him on the radio has been that he makes controversial comments to elicit controversial responses! This makes for good radio but it can offend this or that person or section of the population. We shouldn't be too alarmed by this because freedom of expression necessarily involves the possibility of giving offence, as long as there is no threat to the safety of an individual or community or of discrimination against them.
The furore, however, about his language regarding the appearance of those wearing the burqa or niqab, has meant that many have missed his extremely relaxed attitude to the actual wearing of these garments in public situations. The only restrictions he seems to countenance have to do with private preferences or rules in schools or offices.
Like him, I am not in favour of an absolute ban on the burqa but unlike him, I am in favour of a qualified ban on wearing the burqa or niqab in a wide range of situations. I am not for a total ban because that would violate the freedom of people to dress as they choose when they are at home, with friends or at their place of worship. There are many reasons, however, for restricting the wearing of these garments in a number of important areas of our common life.
I come myself from both a Muslim and Christian family background and have lived and worked in Muslim majority communities. I have had beloved aunts who, at first, wore the burqa and then abandoned it because it was incompatible with their work as schoolteachers. I have seen also how increasingly 'modest' dress, whether the burqa, on the frontier between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the niqab in Egypt or the chador in Iran, is being imposed on women in the name of religion, custom or culture. We cannot assume that such compulsion is not taking place in this country!
We have all seen how even male terrorists have escaped arrest by donning a burqa and making an effective getaway. For reasons of national security, there will be places like Parliament or Whitehall or town halls and council chambers where the burqa should not be allowed. Government and local authority buildings, as well as institutions like universities and schools, will want to know the identities of those who come to visit, work or study, not only at the point of entry but throughout the day. There needs to be legislative and regulatory backing for such bodies to be able to ban the burqa and the niqab on their premises.
Immigration and border control is another area where a ban is required. This is, of course, to determine the identity of those entering or leaving the country but it is also necessary to maintain adequate security in and around our ports and airports. Those responsible for our security need to able to tell, by people's behaviour in public places, including facial expressions, whether they are a danger to others. The courts have ruled already that a face veil must be removed at the time of testifying but this is not enough. Judge, jurors and counsel will also want to observe the facial expressions, of those involved in a trial, at other stages, when different people are testifying or when counsel for the defence or prosecution are arguing their case.
Many professions require personal interaction with the client. In business, both the trader and the customer should be able to see one another’s face and to interpret expressions, if the transaction is to be mutually beneficial. This is even more true of doctors, dentists, nurses and paramedics. They need to know, from facial expression, how a patient is feeling, if they are in pain and whether pain has been relieved through treatment. Those engaged in therapeutic counselling and in social work, similarly, have to be able to tell, by observing the face, the extent of a person’s distress or well being. Both Boris Johnson and Jack Straw have declared that they would refuse to see someone from their constituency if they were wearing a face veil because that would make a real conversation very difficult. Such a difficulty extends to those working in job and advice centres and in any number of community and family projects.
I have seen women driving in some countries with a niqab or other voluminous covering. How they do so safely is a mystery to me! Public safety on roads means that those wearing burqa, niqab or other full head covering, which obscures all-round vision, should not be allowed to operate vehicles where they pose a danger to the public. This must also be true of operating certain kinds of machinery at the workplace or of working in difficult terrain or challenging weather conditions. Again, the Police, The DVSA and employers will need legislative sanction if they are to enforce such bans.
It is true that some women choose to wear the burqa or niqab because they feel it makes them more observant Muslims although there doesn’t seem to be anything in the Qur’an or in Islamic law that requires this. It is also true, however, that the burqa or niqab is being weaponised by Islamists to impose what they consider to be 'Islamic' character on communities, neighbourhoods and even nations. Culture and custom can also be appealed to in persuading women to take the face veil. In Britain, this has serious implications for the freedom of women but it also has implications for integration and social cohesion. Where there is widespread use of the face veil, there will be greater isolation from one another and a sense of segregation will grow.
While Islamists have succeeded in introducing or re-introducing the veil in a number of countries, other countries, like Egypt, are resisting this trend. The highest Islamic authorities there have banned it in educational institutions and Parliament is considering legislation to ban it altogether. What is happening there has certainly influenced the European debate and we also need to learn from Egypt and other countries about the social and health consequences of observing strict purdah or the seclusion of women, including the wearing of face veils.
Boris Johnson claims that banning the burqa would result in a general crackdown on wearing any religious symbols in public. The Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson, has said, similarly, that banning the burqa is like banning Christians from wearing the crucifix. Neither of these claims bear examination. A crucifix, or similar religious symbol, does not conceal anyone's identity or expression nor can it be used to conceal a weapon which could be a danger to the public. When are we going to stop always seeking equivalences between Christianity and other religious beliefs? Christianity has given us our civilisation, our values and the dignity and freedom of the person. Let us celebrate that instead of always dragging it down to the lowest common denominator!
We need then both to uphold personal freedom and regulation for the sake of the public good. For weighty reasons of security, safety on our roads, control of our borders and professional conduct, the wearing of full-face veils can be and should be restricted in our society.
"To you", you forgot to add! And that's perfectly ok.
For your information, in UK, you can't cover your face with a helmet, hoodie, not to talk of a burqa, and enter a bank, court or teach in a school environment, so I don't quite get the problem. If I put on my burqa, I already know I will face some restrictions, but how you imagine that I, who puts on a restricting burqa, minds certain restrictions, confounds me. Does "burqa equal stupid", to you maybe? Oh, I get it, "burqa equals security risk" after all, one person had a bomb under their's so we all must do, right? By your logic, black people in UK should bleach themselves white too, after all, one black person mugged someone yesterday! Or perhaps all black people should be thrown in jail or be kicked out the country? Thankfully, UK seems much more enlightened and less oppressive than you and that rather ignorant former Nazir Ali are and don't think one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
When I ran from an oppressive country to the Western world, can you understand that my desire might have been that I ran so that I could stop being oppressed? If you do, then please stop oppressing me by imposing on me what I should or shouldn't wear because of your fear of Islam!
you are talking like a fool, one thing I see in you Muslims is that u just hate the truth, u have never in your life yield to anything a christian might tell u, in this century somethings need to change, the Bible says " when u are in Rome, behave like a Roman", that is it, why do u always like questioning people who enlighten u on certain matter, the fact is that your so call bugha can be a treat of terrorism, I don't say all Muslims are terrorist, but u just needs to obey some certain rules and regulations of that particular country where u migrate to, these rules doesn't leave back the christians also, but I don't just know why u Muslims always find it difficult to understand things that are been said to u, with your attitude, I personally dislike Islam cos I thing what Islam teaches u is always to strife with the people u call unbelievers, even with your attitude towards christians, it makes me believe that Mohammed dispise the christians, always obey simple instructions and don't think u can use some other method to justify your foolish complain, A word is enough for a wise.
true2god: If Germany, Austria, France, Denmark, etc, are dictatorial, why are millions of Muslims rushing to leave their homeland to migrate to those countries? Why do Muslims see more opportunities and better life in Germany, France, Denmark, etc, instead of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc. As a normal person, you adapt to local laws and not local laws adapt to your religion and beliefs. The real dictators are the Muslim/Arab leaders who are destroying their countries hence causing mass migration into the land of the 'kafirs'.
As a typical Muslim, you always attempt to justify your failures by pointing out the weaknesses in others, specially your arch-enemy, Christianity. This is not how life is meant to be. You take responsibility for your failures or success. Muslims pointing out past events in the Christendom to justify their present irrational and barbaric practices is ridiculous and makes no sense.
And remember, the countries I listed are some of the most liberal nations on earth, for the fact that they don't want Islamic burka, for their own safety, does not make them dictatorial. These countries are far better than all Muslim nations in terms of human right, religious and minority rights.
thank u very much for your reply, u know one thing about Muslims is that they like justifying there religion with Christian past, the truth there is that every religion has a good and a bad past, but we are In a mordern world where everything should work according to rules and regulations of any country one find him/herself, that is what muslims fail to realize, they are the one who we be screaming that christians are kirfirs and unbelievers and they are the one who actually loves flocking to those kirfirs countries, it that not hypocrisy, If u say christians are walking in bikinis all about and u hate that, then why don't u stay in your country where u won't be seeing them, but no, reverse is the case, honestly Muslims must be highlight about some things and should come out of this old tradition started by there prophet.
Although I'm a Muslim but not so religeous, I don't like all these Pakistani, Afghanistan and Middle Eastern Muslims, they use Islam as an excuse to commit all kinds of atrocities, they practice animal cruelty on dogs, they like trouble too much, they make a big deal out of everything. Why can't they just relax and enjoy life? All they want to do is to fight and kill, me I can not go and be fighting and killing because of religeon.
These people are a nuisance, plane and simple.
thank u very much, u know life we be easy if all this Muslim countries can behave like Christian nations, we are in a mordern world where everything needs to be put in place.
true2god: Britain has suddenly become a rational-minded, reason-reliant nation because the have not also banned the burka. Wow, that's great!
If I get you right, Germany, Denmark and the rest are not 'rational-minded' people because they love their people more that they love pandering to Muslims' weak sensibility. Yes, the Germans are not rationally minded for allowing over 1million Muslim migrants into their country, provided them houses, food and money (which Saudi Arabia will never do even for their fellow Muslim). If the Germans are rational, they will never allow a hostile religion like Islam to invade their country with millions of Muslim migrants.
The same British people you are praising for being tolerant today will dump you as soon as their oil interest in the Arabian world ends.
infact I we be the most happiest when the oil those lazy Arabs depend on is brought down, then they we open there hand and start working, Arabs are the most laziest people have ever seen, they feel relent because of the oil, christian nations also have oil but they don't relent on it too much and that is why we are seeing the likes of American and European countries building Electric cars, even many of this nations are planning to ban fuel cars, The Arabs are doomed, those lazy shit, very lazy people.
you also can't force anyone to remove their burqa.
wearing of burqa is completely an issue of CHOICE. people should have personal liberty.
that is why u are a fool, go and dictate that to Saudi arabia and see how your head we roll on the ground, Boris Johnson is now the new prime Minister of UK, watch out for total ban of your so call bucka in which has destroy many homes in the name of jihad.
I do wonder why you have to lie to promote your ideology. Germany has history and can't possibly pass such a stupid law since it would resemble how they began the extermination of the Jews!
Go learn about the European countries (Austria, France, Denmark) that do have such bans and learn too about fascism, and then you might just understand why some are against it.
That shows how foolish u are, seeing u defending them, someone might think u love them not nowing refers is the case, u actually think u can go to a Christian counties and start dictating for them, have never heard Muslims protesting in Saudi Arabia not to talk of Christian, u know your problem is that u think u can dictate for christians but u hate it when a Christian dictate for u, that shows how dump your foolish religion is, I hate your religion.
Tunisian Prime Minister Youssef Chahed has banned the wearing of the niqab - a full-face veil - in public institutions with immediate effect, citing security reasons.
You don't know my religion david, and your own religion, whatever it is, sucks. Let me feed you with the Truth and the Way and perhaps you'd stop sucking!
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A44-48&version=KJV]Matthew 5:44-48[/url]
It's what the nations in Europe do that makes them the great nations they are today david, and which you too will become as soon as you get rid of your hatred and ignorance and stupidity! In Jesus Mighty Name I pray for you!
olayinkadavid70: That shows how foolish u are, seeing u defending them, someone might think u love them not nowing refers is the case, u actually think u can go to a Christian counties and start dictating for them, have never heard Muslims protesting in Saudi Arabia not to talk of Christian, u know your problem is that u think u can dictate for christians but u hate it when a Christian dictate for u, that shows how dump your foolish religion is, I hate your religion.
