Empiree:
if you know you know this guy also holds on to literal representation and he submits to the text as you do. "We hear and we obey" is what he believes.

Subhanallah!

How can you compare a literalist with an Ahl-Sunnah?

Rashduct4luv:



Subhanallah!

How can you compare a literalist with an Ahl-Sunnah?

so you want me to quote you?. Aren't you literalist?. You think I'm a fool?. Don't you people display your literalism here all the time?. Maybe you have another definition?. Opposite of literal interpretation is metaphorical. And many times you and your buddies rejected some of our metaphorical ayah and Hadith. You said "we take the word as it is without question". Why are you backing away after I equated you with quraniyun?

Empiree:
so you want me to quote you?. Aren't you literalist?. You think I'm a fool?. Don't you people display your literalism here all the time?. Maybe you have another definition?. Opposite of literal interpretation is metaphorical. And many times you and your buddies rejected some of our metaphorical ayah and Hadith. You said "we take the word as it is without question". Why are you backing away after I equated you with quraniyun?

A literalist interpret texts based on its perceived meaning only.

A Salafist interprets texts based on the understanding of the Salafs.

You dey mind the confused individual? He doesn't know the difference....

usermane:
Self righteousness & Hypocrisy. Holier than thou! A Muslim whose own traditions relay that the messenger consummated his marriage with a 9 years old kid, whom he had married at 6 years of age. Pedophilia?! Such Muslim have no right to condemn to death two gays in private, consensual romantic or marital affair.

Where did you find his marriage with a 6 years old girl?

Victims of Sharia & Freedom of Speech Violation - Aasia Bibi

5 verses have been shown, instructing Muhammad to ignore the blasphemers and trust in God. Let see from the following case if Muslims honor these instructions.

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Aasia Bibi Blasphemy's Case

Aasia Bibi is a Pakistani Christian convicted of blasphemy in 2010 and sentenced to death. She had been involved in a heated quarrel with a Muslim co-worker and it deteriorated into snide remarks about Jesus and Muhammad. During the altercation, she expressed the following words, incriminating her;

Aasia: : I'm not going to convert(to Islam). I believe in my religion and Jesus, he died for the sin of man. What did Muhammad do for man? Why should I convert to Islam?

Full story here; https://nypost.com/2013/08/25/sentenced-to-death-for-a-sip-of-water/

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So, Aasia was charged to court, imprisoned and remain in solitary confinement since 2009. She had to remain locked up also for her own safety, due to calls for her murder in Pakistani public, in event the court acquits her.

Pakistan partly rules by sharia, where blasphemy is punished by death, according to several hadith and consensus of traditional Muslim scholars. See; Hadith Approve Death Penalty for Blasphemy. After several failed appeals and adjourned verdict, she was acquited on 10/30/2018.

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For her safety, Aasia has been offered asylum by a host of Western countries. But fanatic Muslim groups in Pakistan protested her acquittal, reaching agreement with the government to bar Aasia from leaving Pakistan.

So, even after 8 years in prison, Pakistani authorities will not let go Aasia from detention, until her case is reviewed. This could take more years to complete.

Below are couple of pictures of Muslims protesting against Aasia's acquittal, demanding her execution in line with sharia.

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Note how no single prominent, mainstream Muslim Imam, scholar or speaker have been vocal on Aasia's behalf, against blasphemy law since 2009. Nouman Ali Khan, Yasir Qadhir are American speakers of Pakistani descent, often touted as moderate Muslims, yet they remain mute on this issue.

Note! There are few Muslim scholars that have been critical of Pakistan Blasphemy law. E.g Mufti Abu Layth al Maliki, a British Pakistani & Imam Tawhidi(Imam of Peace), an Iranian Australian. But they are not mainstream, the are rejected by the mainstream Muslim community as heretics.

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The religious leadership of the mainstream Muslim community is bereft of Imams, scholars or speakers who reasonably affirm universal human rights. They remain supportive or silent to human right violation, provided the victims are non-Muslims and the violators are Muslim authorities or governments like Pakistan.

Finally, note how the west have to come to rescue of another victim of human rights violation in the Muslim world. Even fanatic Muslims like Ayatollah Khomeini under persecution in the Muslim world have enjoyed asylum the west.

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But with growth of Muslim fanaticism now in the West, how long will the west continue as asylum for these victims? We can already see this in UK, for instance. Where there has been report that Aasia was not offered asylum due to fear of upsetting section of the population.

Also, beware of politically correct mainstream news sources alluding that Aasia was sentenced for drinking from the same cup as Muslims. This is dishonest attempt to detract from the theological root of the problem within the House of Islam.

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Aasia Bibi spoke negatively of Muhammad, this is why she remain in jail under threat of execution till date. This has nothing to do with drinking a cup of water.

usermane:
Victims of Sharia & Freedom of Speech Violation - Aasia Bibi

5 verses have been shown, instructing Muhammad to ignore the blasphemers and trust in God. Let see from the following case if Muslims honor these instructions.

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You have not answer my question on freedom of speech. Why would Germany persecute holocaust denials for expressing their view?. This is why I continue to ignore your nonsense like this. Muslim govt has the right to persecute blasphemers. Just because the prophet (saw) showed mercy or pardoned those who violated him does not mean they should have field day in this day and age. There must be checks and balances. Punishment doesn't have to be death sentence.


Now this just happened few days ago to Marc Lamont Hill. He was fired a day after given a speech supporting Palestinians freedom. CNN portrayed his speech to mean wiping off Israel off the map. They twisted his statement and now he's fired for expressing his view. So you may be hypocritical for speaking only about persecuting anti Muhammad speeches. This is no exception.

So I support govt to punish whoever made blasphemous statement about our prophet (saw) regardless of what you think. This is not fanatism.

AbdelKabir:
You dey mind the confused individual? He doesn't know the difference....

Don't worry. Time will tell again. So much about "following Salaf". Salaf were not always literalists.

Empiree:
Don't worry. Time will tell again. So much about "following Salaf". Salaf were not always literalists.

Truth is Mr man, you don't know what we mean by saying we interpret verses as the three blessed generations interpreted it.

AbdelKabir:



Truth is Mr man, you don't know what we mean by saying we interpret verses as the three blessed generations interpreted it.

smh...na only "salafi" of today follow the three generations?

Why Reject Blasphemy law

Blasphemy law should have no place in an enlightened society, for reasons. Chief of them being that it stifles honest intellectual discourse on religion, by barring any negative observation on religion.

I have uploaded below the panels of Danish Cartoons on Muhammad in 2006 as case study.

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I deduce that 2 things about this cartoon provoked Muslim outrage:

i. Visual depiction of Muhammad.

There is the belief among some Muslims that drawing Muhammad is forbidden in Islam. But, regardless of the legitimacy of such belief, Muhammad to non-Muslims is just another historical figure, not an idol, not a messenger. Thus, non-Muslims should be under no restriction from drawing, painting or sculpting Muhammad, just like any other human being.

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ii. Three panels of the comics.

The 3 panels that must have provoked some Muslims are;

Panel 4 - Muhammad wielding a sword with two masked women behind him.

Panel 7 - Muhammad with a bomb in his turban.

Panel 5 - Muhammad calling to his companions, "We're out of virgins".

Are these provoking? May be. Nevertheless, this is simply an observation of Muhammad's life by the satirists. Let's analyze the panels.

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The 4th & 7th panels are likely allusions to the 'live by the sword' portrayal of Muhammad by Muslim fanatics throughout history:

The assassination of Asma bint Marwan, the hadith permitting fighting people till they embrace Islam or pay a tribute, Qur'an 9:5 and how it has been interpreted to wage war on non-Muslims, spreading Islam through the middle east, europe and north africa throughout history.

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The 5th panel is likely an allusion to Muhammad's open indulgence in sex and virgin according to traditional Islam:

His child bride and consummation of their marriage when she was 9, his recommendation of young girls(virgin) rather than older women to his companions for marriage, his nightly 'sexcapades' with his 11 wives, and permitting of his companions to rape female captives. The list goes on.

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From an academic point, nothing is wrong with this cartoon. Whether as satire, parody or ordinary statements, People should be free to air negative observations and constructive criticism of any man, including Muhammad - to whom Muslims themselves have attributed many bad ideas and actions that are unacceptable to any sane mind.

usermane:
From an academic point, nothing is wrong with this cartoon. Whether as satire, parody or ordinary statements, People should be free to air negative observations and constructive criticism of any man, including

Hypocrite!!! You still failed to answer my questions.


1

If people should be free to air their negative observations, why is denying holocaust punishable offense in Germany in 21 century?. Why do holocaust denials lose their job in other parts of Western countries that you called civilized society?. Don't they have the right to air their views without being persecuted?.



2

Why did Marc Lamont Hill lose his job at CNN as a political commentator for critisizing Israel brutal behavior?. What you critisized muslims of is exactly what they do. Until you maintain checks and balances, I will forever consider you irrelevant.


You failed to realize that they have their culture of persecuting insults and blasphemies. Where is Danish cartoonist now?. If only you perceive what he's going through in his grave right now. He's not finding it funny anymore.

Empiree:
You have not answer my question on freedom of speech. Why would Germany persecute holocaust denials for expressing their view?.

I don't support Germany punishment against Holocaust denial which is 5 years imprisonment. I'm pro-free speech.

But then Germany has free speech laws far more than muslim countries, the reason for the punishment of holocaust denial is understandable, it is base on lies and lack of empathy towards the victims. The holocaust happened and it was very cruel, lying it didn't happen is more cruel but then the punishment shouldn't be imprisonment which I don't support.

This is why I continue to ignore your nonsense like this. Muslim govt has the right to persecute blasphemers.

Blasphemy shouldn't be under punishment, there should be free speech!

If we're talking about blasphemy, the Quran should be among because it blasphem a lot about unbelievers especially the Jews and Christians.

If a speech calls for violence or threatening then such should be controlled.

Just because the prophet (saw) showed mercy or pardoned those who violated him does not mean they should have field day in this day and age. There must be checks and balances. Punishment doesn't have to be death sentence.

Which mercy he showed?

Now this just happened few days ago to Marc Lamont Hill. He was fired a day after given a speech supporting Palestinians freedom. CNN portrayed his speech to mean wiping off Israel off the map. They twisted his statement and now he's fired for expressing his view. So you may be hypocritical for speaking only about persecuting anti Muhammad speeches. This is no exception.

CNN is not government owned, it is a company, if their is a speech that attempt to tarnish the image of the company ofcos the staff will be fired.

You don't expect a company to loose their brand and endorsements.

So I support govt to punish whoever made blasphemous statement about our prophet (saw) regardless of what you think. This is not fanatism.

The problem with Islam purnishmemt for blasphemy or criticism is very cruel, immoral and against freedom of speech!

tintingz:
I don't support Germany punishment against Holocaust denial which is 5 years imprisonment. I'm pro-free speech.

But then Germany has free speech laws far more than muslim countries, the reason for the punishment of holocaust denial is understandable, it is base on lies and lack of empathy towards the victims. The holocaust happened and it was very cruel, lying it didn't happen is more cruel but then the punishment shouldn't be imprisonment which I don't support.

Blasphemy shouldn't be under punishment, there should be free speech!

If we're talking about blasphemy, the Quran should be among because it blasphem a lot about unbelievers especially the Jews and Christians.

If a speech calls for violence or threatening then such should be controlled.

Which mercy he showed?


CNN is not government owned, it is a company, if their is a speech that attempt to tarnish the image of the company ofcos the staff will be fired.

You don't expect a company to loose their brand and endorsements.

The problem with Islam purnishmemt for blasphemy or criticism is very cruel, immoral and against freedom of speech!

Even blnd man can see through your double standards.

Rubbish

Thank God that Australia didn't buy your bullshit. They just signed into law to persecute whoever talks trash about prophet Muhammad (saw). Type nonsense about US president and you would see secret service knock on your door and take you to secret location. Only then you realize that freedom is not free. Good luck if you make it it alive

Empiree:
Even blnd man can see through your double standards.

Rubbish

Thank God that Australia didn't buy your bullshit. They just signed into law to persecute whoever talks trash about prophet Muhammad (saw). Type nonsense about US president and you would see secret service knock on your door and take you to secret location. Only then you realize that freedom is not free. Good luck if you make it it alive

It does not make any of them right, like I said I'm pro-free speech.

Since most Muslims saga has been associated to violence, the Australian court had to promote peace when a lady called Mohammed a pedophile, the lady has her right anyway, she was not defaming. I hope justice is done.

Who was punished for insulting US president?

tintingz:
It does not make any of them right, like I said I'm pro-free speech.

Since most Muslims saga has been associated to violence, the Australian court had to promote peace when a lady called Mohammed a pedophile, the lady has her right anyway, she was not defaming. I hope justice is done.

Cheap excuse

Who was punished for insulting US president?

if you live in US, just use your computer to say sh!t about the president. fbi/cia/police will be ur guests

Empiree:
Cheap excuse

Well that is the excuse of the Australian court.

if you live in US, just use your computer to say sh!t about the president. fbi/cia/police will be ur guests

I follow Donald Trump on twitter and Americans insult him daily, I never head anyone got arrested.

tintingz:



I follow Donald Trump on twitter and Americans insult him daily, I never head anyone got arrested.

you may never understand. THose who know zip their mouth. Those people you claim insult him, do you know them in person?. You know their locations?. If one of them has been persecuted would you know that?. Anyways, it depends on level of speech.

Empiree:
you may never understand. THose who know zip their mouth. Those people you claim insult him, do you know them in person?. You know their locations?. If one of them has been persecuted would you know that?. Anyways, it depends on level of speech.

We will know because of the internet.

The only reason someone can be persecuted is defamatory.

Is desecrating Qur'an Punishable?

In 2014, a Pakistani mob lynched and burnt a pregnant couple in a kiln for allegedly throwing away copies of Qur'an along with thrash.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/04/pakistan-christian-couple-killed-alleged-blasphemy

In 2012, Pakistani girl of 14 years was arrested and charged for desecrating the Qur'an by burning copies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/aug/19/pakistan-christian-tensions-quran-burning-allegations

Desecrating Qur'an doesn't fall within freedom of speech, but it is blasphemy. So, is it punishable? To answer this, we cite an example.

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