Suppose, Mr. XZ print out copies of Qur'an from his computer. Then after months of reading them, resolving Qur'an was falsehood, he tosses the copies into his house garbage, and throw out the entire garbage at the end of the week into the neighborhood refuse bin. Is Mr. XZ punishable for desecrating his own Qur'an?

If people want to desecrate religious object that belong them, that is up to them. We could dissuade them, but unless we personally or collectively own the very object that has been desecrated, we have no right to punish any one for desecration.

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Now, suppose a person storms into a Mosque or an Islamic bookshop, tearing and stamping on copies of Qur'an on shelves. This is trespassing and so may be punishable by government. But for the government to punish a man for desecrating his personal copy of the Qur'an, it is unjustifiable.

All in all, there basically is no justifiable reason for blasphemy law unless blasphemous acts constitute tresspassing. It hinders criticism of religion, impede freedom of speech and even interferes with individual privacy.

Victims Of Freedom of Speech Violation - Raif Badawi

Raif Badawi is a Saudi Muslim apostate or secular Muslim who ran a blog promoting secular democracy, condemning sharia and the Islamic right wing of Saudi Arabia. For his blogs, Raif was arrested, tried and sentenced to 10 years in prison with 1000 lashes in 2012.

Raif's supportive wife and kids had to seek asylum in Canada afterwards, where she has been campaigning for his release. While Raif's defense attorney, Waleed Abdulkhair , was later arrested and imprisoned for opposing sharia and promoting human rights.

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As of now, Raif remain in prison, international outcries for his release have been futile and attempts by the Canadian authorities to obtain his release in 2018 was met with fierce reaction from Saudi Authorities - severing all ties between Saudi Arabia and Canada.

In the imprisonment of Raif Badawi and Aasia Bibi under sharia, we see violation of the Qur'anic verses I've cited. There is enough evidence in Qur'an to establish freedom of speech, but only those Muslims appreciative of freedom of speech will notice and regard such verses.

usermane:
Victims Of Freedom of Speech Violation - Raif Badawi

Raif Badawi is a Saudi Muslim apostate or secular Muslim who ran a blog promoting secular democracy, condemning sharia and the Islamic right wing of Saudi Arabia. For his blogs, Raif was arrested, tried and sentenced to 10 years in prison with 1000 lashes in 2012.

Raif's supportive wife and kids had to seek asylum in Canada afterwards, where she has been campaigning for his release. While Raif's defense attorney, Waleed Abdulkhair , was later arrested and imprisoned for opposing sharia and promoting human rights.

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Saudi problem. But you have anything to say about open prison, GITMO?. Is there any worst violation of human rights than that besides open air prison, Gaza?. I bet you would look for excuses to defend or skip this.

Empiree:
Saudi problem. But you have anything to say about open prison, GITMO?. Is there any worst violation of human rights than that besides open air prison, Gaza?. I bet you would look for excuses to defend or skip this.

Do you condemn Saudi bombing of Yemen because they don't want a shia government there? Are shia not muslims?

true2god:
Do you condemn Saudi bombing of Yemen

Absolutely, I did. The prince was wrong.

Empiree:
Absolutely, I did. The prince was wrong.

Almost on a daily basis Muslims curse Jews for their actions against the Palestinian people and some stage a deadly protest for that, when will Muslims worldwide protest the against the actions of Saudi govt in Yemen? I have not seen a single Muslim on the street pretesting against the Saudis, why?

true2god:
Almost on a daily basis Muslims curse Jews for their actions against the Palestinian people and some stage a deadly protest for that, when will Muslims worldwide protest the against the actions of Saudi govt in Yemen? I have not seen a single Muslim on the street pretesting against the Saudis, why?

well, arguing on this with you is a waste of time. Allow me to give you analogy.

If unrelated fellow, stranger, hoodlum etc slaps you on the face, you most likely would react almost immediately to curb the person. But if a family member, parent, friend etc do the same, you would most likely restrain yourself. You would say something like "if not for you, if someone else tried this with me I would have retaliated instantly".

This means your reaction to both acts would be different bcuz of their closeness to you. In the same way, Israel is not Muslim friend in this case. It has long records of cruel treatments of its neighbors. Therefore, it is only natural that muslims protest against Israel.

Empiree:
well, arguing on this with you is a waste of time. Allow me to give you analogy.

If unrelated fellow, stranger, hoodlum etc slaps you on the face, you most likely would react almost immediately to curb the person. But if a family member, parent, friend etc do the same, you would most likely restrain yourself. You would say something like "if not for you, if someone else tried this with me I would have retaliated instantly".

This means your reaction to both acts would be different bcuz of their closeness to you. In the same way, Israel is not Muslim friend in this case. It has long records of cruel treatments of its neighbors. Therefore, it is only natural that muslims protest against Israel.

Bombing and killing innocent children cant be compared with a stranger slapping you and a mother slapping her son. Creating a humanitarian disaster is unacceptable no matter which country is responsible, after all, sufferings and death knows no religion or race.

The shia Muslims protested and condemned Saudi action in Yemen while the majority Sunnis Muslims kept quiet. You should note that the Sunnis do not regard the shia as true Muslims. Why the silence and hypocrisy! And please note that the Saudis never protested against the Israeli actions in Gaza, while the Iranians do almost all the time.

Why are sunni Muslims countries silent on Saudi atrocities in Yemen? Oh, it is a family issue.

true2god:
Bombing and killing innocent children cant be compared with a stranger slapping you and a mother slapping her son. Creating a humanitarian disaster is unacceptable no matter which country is responsible, after all, sufferings and death knows no religion or race.

The shia Muslims protested and condemned Saudi action in Yemen while the majority Sunnis Muslims kept quiet. You should note that the Sunnis do not regard the shia as true Muslims. Why the silence and hypocrisy! And please note that the Saudis never protested against the Israeli actions in Gaza, while the Iranians do almost all the time.

Why are sunni Muslims countries silent on Saudi atrocities in Yemen? Oh, it is a family issue.

how this concerned you is what I don't understand. You don't believe in Shia either. So why trying to play games here?. Your antics ain't gonna work. I have told you point blank that I do not support action of Saudi in Yemen. We do not have to take to the streets before you realise we are not in support of prince action.

Empiree:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2371951149706713&id=1391449297756908&fs=0&focus_composer=0

What is your point here?

Empiree:
how this concerned you is what I don't understand. You don't believe in Shia either. So why trying to play games here?. Your antics ain't gonna work. I have told you point blank that I do not support action of Saudi in Yemen. We do not have to take to the streets before you realise we are not in support of prince action.

Then how is it the business of Muslims in Kano state on what is happening in the middle-east? How is it their business protesting against the Israeli policies while at the same time ignored what the Saudis negatively do worldwide, especially terrorists' financing and the killing of the Yemeni civilians?

true2god:
Then how is it the business of Muslims in Kano state on what is happening in the middle-east? How is it their business protesting against the Israeli policies while at the same time ignored what the Saudis negatively do worldwide, especially terrorists' financing and the killing of the Yemeni civilians?

speaking of financing terrorists, why did Christians and you not protest this?. Is it not clear that there is conspiracy btw Saudi and Western world who jointly created terrorism worldwide?. Blaming Saudi alone is not good enough

true2god:
What is your point here?

stop pretending. You watched it and it is clear to you

Empiree:
speaking of financing terrorists, why did Christians and you not protest this?. Is it not clear that there is conspiracy btw Saudi and Western world who jointly created terrorism worldwide?. Blaming Saudi alone is not good enough

I am sorry bro! The US and Saudi Arabia are evil. The US, according to Iran, is the 'GREAT SATAN' while Saudi Arabia is their puppet. The issue here is that the US 'gives no shit about it' while the Saudi are claiming saints while they are not.

Empiree:
stop pretending. You watched it and it is clear to you

I will watch it later; very busy right now.

true2god:
I am sorry bro! The US and Saudi Arabia are evil. The US, according to Iran, is the 'GREAT SATAN' while Saudi Arabia is their puppet. The issue here is that the US 'gives no shit about it' while the Saudi are claiming saints while they are not.

so whats your point at outstart (your previous post)?. Why blamed saudi when you are well informed?

Empiree:
so whats your point at outstart (your previous post)?. Why blamed saudi when you are well informed?

I blame Saudi Arabia because they allowed themselves to be used by the western powers to do their dirty jobs. Besides, millions of Muslims see the Saudis as righteous people to emulate but unfortunately, they are the greatest hypocrites worldwide. Many Muslims, especially the shia, are condemning the Saudis everyday but the majority Sunnis turn blind eye to their evil.

true2god:
I blame Saudi Arabia because they allowed themselves to be used by the western powers to do their dirty jobs.

Correction. Judeo/Christian (Jews and Christian terrorists terrorists instead of @bold.

Besides, millions of Muslims see the Saudis as righteous people to emulate but unfortunately, they are the greatest hypocrites worldwide. Many Muslims, especially the shia, are condemning the Saudis everyday but the majority Sunnis turn blind eye to their evil.

nope. We only have love for them bcus of the two holy sites that unite us. Nothing more

Empiree:
Correction. Judeo/Christian (Jews and Christian terrorists terrorists instead of @bold.


nope. We only have love for them bcus of the two holy sites that unite us. Nothing more

I agree with you, the western powers are advanced terrorist, but without a religious motivation. Islamic terrorism is a function of religious beliefs as instructed the the quran and the sunnah.

true2god:
I agree with you, the western powers are advanced terrorist, but without a religious motivation. Islamic terrorism is a function of religious beliefs as instructed the the quran and the sunnah.

Ogbeni, just revert to Islam. Your heart is softer than it used to be in the days of ifeann

Empiree:
Ogbeni, just revert to Islam. Your heart is softer than it used to be in the days of ifeann

Truth must be told, the western power are advance terrorist while the Muslims nations practice crude and immature terrorism which are very visible to the global press. The CIA, MOSSAD, MI5 and the KGB are all executive terror organizations approved by the states to destabilize societies and install puppets (the way they did in saudi arabia). In islam, they have hezbolla, the Nusra front, the Al-qaeda, the Muslim brotherhood, Islamiyya jumatul, etc. These organizations are meant to function like the CIA and MOSSAD but always do a bad job hence the press calling them Islamic terrorist organizations.

Both the christian west and the Arab-Muslims are the same but with different skills and strategies; they both do dirty jobs.

true2god:
Truth must be told, the western power are advance terrorist while the Muslims nations practice crude and immature terrorism which are very visible to the global press. The CIA, MOSSAD, MI5 and the KGB are all executive terror organizations approved by the states to destabilize societies and install puppets (the way they did in saudi arabia). In islam, they have hezbolla, the Nusra front, the Al-qaeda, the Muslim brotherhood, Islamiyya jumatul, etc. These organizations are meant to function like the CIA and MOSSAD but always do a bad job hence the press calling them Islamic terrorist organizations.

Both the christian west and the Arab-Muslims are the same but with different skills and strategies; they both do dirty jobs.

Sense. You seems to understand some of what I said back in 2014 during ifeann era. Check with albaqir's recent post about a US citizen press woman in jail.

Reconciling Courtesy & Tact With Freedom to Blaspheme

In official or formal discourse, Freedom for blasphemy may need be limited for the sake of peace and courtesy, so unwarranted insult and cursing of religion may be censored by the state. But polite criticism of religion must be permitted as criticism is needed for intellectual and rational discourse on religion.

For moderate Muslims, this is reasonable. But not so for the fanatic Muslims, because they can't even stand criticism - as seen from the cases above, they lump criticism of Islam with insulting of Islam and desire to harm/censor anyone whose statements or observations on Islam is negative.

Cont. Below

Regardless of the fanatics, in light of the aforementioned verses, non-Muslims should be free to make statements as "Muhammad was a false prophet, Muhammad was morally wrong to sleep with a 9 years old kid, Muhammad's massacre of Banu Qurayza is war crime".

These statement while blasphemous, do not directly insult or curse Muhammad and to punish or censor the speaker is not Qur'anically legit.

In informal or unofficial matters between persons, blasphemy or insulting of religion is no concern of the state, it does not threaten peace & diplomacy at a society level and so should be overlooked by the state.

usermane:
Regardless of the fanatics, in light of the aforementioned verses, non-Muslims should be free to make statements as "Muhammad was a false prophet, Muhammad was morally wrong to sleep with a 9 years old kid, Muhammad's massacre of Banu Qurayza is war crime".


These statement while blasphemous, do not directly insult or curse Muhammad and to punish or censor the speaker is not Qur'anically legit.

In informal or unofficial matters between persons, blasphemy or insulting of religion is no concern of the state, it does not threaten peace & diplomacy at a society level and so should be overlooked by the state.

To say he committed war crime is not considered blasphemy. I don't think I ever learned that from any scholar. The statement simply requires enlightenment in the light of historical context, and then point out their own war comes to them in the modern era to show that they have no moral justification to talk trash about the prophet (saw). They committed humanitarian crimes against Africans.

As for sleeping with a 9yr old girl, unless they wanna be hypocritical and insincere, they know too well throughout history of man, that warriors, warlords, Kings, chiefs etc married young girls even in medieval time. That being said, it becomes blasphemy should they insist on vilifying prophet (saw) for sleeping with a girl. He's not here to defend himself now but one thing is clear, Vatican and other non-Muslim sects are filled with pedophilias and they are proud of it. So what's the point of blaming a man who lived over 1400 yrs ago for the same practice they themselves engage in?.

usermane:
Reconciling Courtesy & Tact With Freedom to Blaspheme

In official or formal discourse, Freedom for blasphemy may need be limited for the sake of peace and courtesy, so unwarranted insult and cursing of religion may be censored by the state. But polite criticism of religion must be permitted as criticism is needed for intellectual and rational discourse on religion.

For moderate Muslims, this is reasonable. But not so for the fanatic Muslims, because they can't even stand criticism - as seen from the cases above, they lump criticism of Islam with insulting of Islam and desire to harm/censor anyone whose statements or observations on Islam is negative.

Cont. Below

Criticism of Islam is termed blasphemy by all the 5 schools of Islamic jurisprudence. The so-called radical muslims are simply following core Islamic teachings, or the sunnah.

usermane:
Regardless of the fanatics, in light of the aforementioned verses, non-Muslims should be free to make statements as "Muhammad was a false prophet, Muhammad was morally wrong to sleep with a 9 years old kid, Muhammad's massacre of Banu Qurayza is war crime".

These statement while blasphemous, do not directly insult or curse Muhammad and to punish or censor the speaker is not Qur'anically legit.

In informal or unofficial matters between persons, blasphemy or insulting of religion is no concern of the state, it does not threaten peace & diplomacy at a society level and so should be overlooked by the state.

The bolded will surely lead to an early grave for anyone who say such thing in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, etc. If I say such thing in the US, Canada and Europe, I cant go scot-free, because Muslims are in the minority.

While I appreciate your attempt at moderating the reactions of Muslims with regards to criticism of religion, do not spread a wrong information concerning an issue like this.

Empiree:
To say he committed war crime is not considered blasphemy. I don't think I ever learned that from any scholar. The statement simply requires enlightenment in the light of historical context, and then point out their own war comes to them in the modern era to show that they have no moral justification to talk trash about the prophet (saw). They committed humanitarian crimes against Africans.

As for sleeping with a 9yr old girl, unless they wanna be hypocritical and insincere, they know too well throughout history of man, that warriors, warlords, Kings, chiefs etc married young girls even in medieval time. That being said, it becomes blasphemy should they insist on vilifying prophet (saw) for sleeping with a girl. He's not here to defend himself now but one thing is clear, Vatican and other non-Muslim sects are filled with pedophilias and they are proud of it. So what's the point of blaming a man who lived over 1400 yrs ago for the same practice they themselves engage in?.

Creating a moral equivalence will not nullify the fact that marrying a 6yr old girl, and sleeping with her at age 9, is nothing but pedophilia. For the fact that it was done in the past does not make it morally acceptable either then or now. It was/is wrong.

Mohammed, regarded as a perfect conduct to emulate by Muslims, should have known that sleeping with a 9yr old girl, while the man is 54, is evil and morally unacceptable. Lumping the Vatican, medieval kings, old warriors into the argument does not exonerate the depraved character that married and sleep with a minor as young as 9 yrs old. The love for the prophet should never make one....

true2god:
Creating a moral equivalence will not nullify the fact that marrying a 6yr old girl, and sleeping with her at age 9, is nothing but pedophilia. For the fact that it was done in the past does not make it morally acceptable either then or now. It was/is wrong.

Mohammed, regarded as a perfect conduct to emulate by Muslims, should have known that sleeping with a 9yr old girl, while the man is 54, is evil and morally unacceptable. Lumping the Vatican, medieval kings, old warriors into the argument does not exonerate the depraved character that married and sleep with a minor as young as 9 yrs old. The love for the prophet should never make one....

this is nonesense you know. You can try harder next time to excuse Vatican. Quran clearly says that he(saw) married WOMEN which indicate there was no child amongst his wives.