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Stats: 2,188,697 members, 4,772,306 topics. Date: Thursday, 21 February 2019 at 12:34 AM
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by Dantedasz: 8:07pm On Dec 18, 2018|
What empirical evidence can prove this woman visited heaven without dying?
In my opinion,she is either imagining everything and hallucinating or she is a very smart con woman feeding on the ignorance of her followers to milk them dry and make herself rich.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 8:17pm On Dec 18, 2018|
I do not agree with your summation. If the only actions possible are what we would call good then what would happen is we would not have a scale where we labelled any action good or evil. There is no requirement that makes evil necessary. It is just like saying if I present you a choice between ice cream and cake and you choose cake you really didn't make a choice because both options were good.
Yes I would want a life devoid of all evil, pain and suffering because I can appreciate the difference between cake and ice cream.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 8:21pm On Dec 18, 2018|
So why didn't the alleged god just make only the good? What is the point of the centuries of suffering?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by Possessedchild: 8:22pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Hell exists only in the Christendom and all religions that have commonality with Christianity.
But to me, I believe in higher power but not the one that instills fear and moral uprightness through the concept of hell.
If hell exists, everybody living is hell bound including your favorite pastors and prophets of doom littering the country with religious buildings instead of creating an industrialized and science driven research societies.
Religion to me is a tool to create a moral policing system for lower animals that lack abilities to maintain morally upright life. It should not be taken seriously.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by johnydon22(m): 9:18pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Isn't that arguably better than heaven?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:37pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Oga, there is no centuries of suffering or torture. The wicked(soul and body) will cease to exist. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believe in him as their passover lamb will not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
God is saying those who place their trust on Jesus as their sin offering will not suffer destruction of their soul and body in hell.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by Malocity(m): 9:41pm On Dec 18, 2018|
I like your Zeal.
You see, we Believers were taught from a very long time that Genesis is a book containing the creation of this world and at the beginning of them all.
But do you know there were other books that spoke well and had more details than Genesis?
Moses came into being after many years, From Adam to Noah to Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - when Moses came were many thousands of years spent. And alot of things happened between God and Man.
Let's have our Private gists and study as well. 08035694634 WhatsApp.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by ColdPizzas: 9:44pm On Dec 18, 2018|
I don't think your cake and ice cream analogy relates to the subject of this discussion. You can't use cake and ice cream to represent good and evil.
There is a difference between a life devoid of evil and a life devoid of the possibility for evil, which I referred to. Of course almost anyone would want a life devoid of evil, but such a life would only be meaningful and worth living if this absence of evil, though highly improbable, was reached whilst the propensity for evil still existed. And this would be especially true if we were talking about evil in the context of malevolence; which is evil that results from the actions of man. A life devoid of the possibility of evil would lack everything that makes you human and everything that adds meaning to life. Say humans aren't able to commit evil. Let's say humans didn't have the ability to do bad to other humans. Then good wouldn't exist because good only exists in direct contrast to evil. And if good doesn't exist then the emotions that accompany good actions, both those felt by the person doing good and the person receiving the good action, wouldn't also exist along with the forces that motivate good actions such as love and compassion. If you can't lie then truth has no value. If you can't kill then human life has no value. If sadness can't exist then happiness has no value.
Humans wouldn't be able to create or invent or engage in meaningful activities that have proven to make human life worthwhile like creating inspiring art, music or writing that depict the full gamut of human experience, which always includes periods of suffering. So all the great books, music and work of art that have inspired to growth of human civilization wouldn't exist. Civilization as we know it would also not exists since evil forces like hunger, terrible weather conditions and greed were what led to the rise of civilization in the first place.
A life devoid of the possibility of evil is a life devoid of the capacity for compassion and the genuine expression of love. The fact that we are vulnerable is one of the things that makes us human. The reason we experience death, diseases or feel excruciating pain is because we are human and we have limitations. If evil doesn't exist, then we cease to be vulnerable and we cause to possess limitations and we cease to be human.
A life devoid of the possibility of evil would be an utterly boring, mundane and repetitive life because an absence of the possibility of evil means an absence of suffering and an absence of suffering means a life of absolute comfort. If life is always comfortable then what's the motivation to make our lives better or do anything at all?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:44pm On Dec 18, 2018|
How is death better than life? How is not existing better than existing? As it is written eyes have seen neither has it entered the imagination of men the kind of life and existence God has prepared to those who trust in Him.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 9:46pm On Dec 18, 2018|
I don't meaning the suffering of hell, I mean the suffering of the living. If the bad people are just going to be annihilated the god should have just done it from the beginning instead of waiting for centuries while people suffered, living miserable, wretched lives only to be annihilated because they believed something other than god. Either we are left with a god that just seems to support suffering for no good reason.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 9:56pm On Dec 18, 2018|
I am not using cake and ice cream to represent good and evil, I am representing only good. I would prefer to have only good than a supposed contrast that evil brings. If an powerful god created this universe it could have created one without evil and it would still be a profound and meaningful one.
Its a lie to say you need to have evil to have compassion and love, that pain and death are necessary parts of the human experience. We would still be human if didn't have pain and death because our situation then would be our experience and we would still be human. Just not what we know as human now.
I find it funny how religious people say pain and death are necessary to the universe but yet dream of a heaven or Paradise where such don't exist, yet when challenged they deny the possibility of living without pain and death. Do you not see how you contradict yourself?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 10:11pm On Dec 18, 2018|
God is being kind enough to get us out of the mess we got ourselves into through disobedience. God placed life(obedience) and death(disobedience) before us. We ended up choosing death, the path of disobedience.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by ColdPizzas: 10:15pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Can you give me an example of what you consider as evil that an almighty God shouldn't have created?
How then can you express compassion towards someone if the experiences that evoke compassion are tied to pain and suffering that wouldn't exist if evil didn't exist? You really think that we would be human if we didn't experience pain or death? If we can't die then that would mean that our lives are infinite. If our lives are infinite, then do we age? If we can't age then are we human? If we can never die then the world would be inhabitable as a result of overpopulation. One of the benefits of diseases and death is that it maintains the balance of nature, population wise. If no one ever dies then the world would be extremely overpopulated and uninhabitable and life would be unbearable.
I hope you realize that pain is also useful when you consider it from a physiological perspective. If us as human beings didn't experience pain, then we wouldn't know when we have hurt parts our anatomy or done damage to our bodies and internal organs and we would just die without being aware we are dying. In this case pain is actually a good thing.
Where did I say that I was religious or that I believed in heaven and hell as literal places?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 10:20pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Oh please. Your god still is revealed to be a suffering monger if it takes centuries to resolve the problem it created.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by Dami12345: 10:28pm On Dec 18, 2018|
The perception we are all given is that God is perfect, in capable of committing evil.
Your analysis here, puts that God created evil knowly and for the purpose of amusing himself with our suffering.
Assuming that he knows everything and is all powerful.
This is an exercise in futility.
However if he designed evil to test us, then he doesn't know everything. Meaning he isn't perfect. He isn't all powerful, meaning devil isn't stupid for fighting, there is a chance God can be sent to hell.
If God needed to test us, then the outcome could come out both ways hence he doesn't know what will actually happen.
However this are just analysis from a person in the 3d.
Beings on 4,5, and other dimensions know more. And with their knowledge can bring about a saner analysis.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 10:33pm On Dec 18, 2018|
All evil could have been made not to exist and we would still experience profundity.
Compassion is only a subset of the emotion your experience when you contemplate profundity. I feel compassion every time I look at a baby, the baby may even be sleeping evincing no pain of any kind I'd still experience compassion. Why? Because I am contemplating the beauty of the life in such a tiny package.
Wow so the only way your god can think of to keep the population at sustainable levels is to introduce death and disease? Your god must lack intelligence. There are several ways that even a human can think of maintaining stable populations talk less of a god.
Dude in a universe without pain, evil or death what will be the point of getting hurt or how would one even get hurt?
Oh I'm sorry I thought you are religious. I apologise for the assumption.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 10:37pm On Dec 18, 2018|
LordReed, yesterday I was watching a little girl playing with an open glass that can get her injured. After repeated warning and scolding her to move away from the object, she will still find her way back there again. She does not know the destructive power of her disobedience to herself. She thinks we are being unfare by asking her to stay away from the object. She didn't know that we are asking her to keep away from the object which could hurt her, because we love her.
Paraventure, she got injured through her disobedience. What do you think we will do in this case? Will I not rush to clean up the mess that her disobedience will birth? Because I love her?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 10:47pm On Dec 18, 2018|
It is same question I am asking you why is your imaginary god not rushing to stop all the evil, pain and suffering? You even believe it knows everything that will happen and yet it allows everything to still happen that leads to suffering and pain.
Lemme ask you, if you knew exactly what would happen to the girl playing with glass (an accident that injures her badly), would you wait for the accident to happen or you'll immediately take the glass away from her?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 10:48pm On Dec 18, 2018|
All what my God made was very good. It was man's disobedience that brought about decay and death. But thank God through another man obedience life and beauty has been restored. The whole creation groans and yearn for their ultimate redemption from decay and corruption.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 10:52pm On Dec 18, 2018|
In your fairytale story god allowed satan to tempt man so whose fault is it? If it wanted man in the story to be loyal, it didn't need a satan to tempt man.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by ColdPizzas: 10:53pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Do you think we would experience the same profundity that leads to the creation and perception of beautiful music and astonishing works of art if we didn't experience bad emotions that are usually a product of suffering? For most people the best kind of music are the ones that are so powerful that they evoke emotions of sadness and grief. Take for instance Beethoven's Midnight Sonata or for a more contemporary song, Adele's Someone like you. This sort of profundity wouldn't exist if evil didn't exist.
Compassion by definition is sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others. How can you feel compassion for a baby that isn't suffering or experiencing misfortune?
How can you keep an ever increasing population of humans at sustainable levels without the existence of death, especially given how long humans have been on this earth?
My argument on the physiological benefit of pain was just an aside argument for people who weren't opposed to the existence of death but were opposed to the existence of pain.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 11:11pm On Dec 18, 2018|
YES! And many times yes! There is no reason you can't continue to create beauty if the only things you experience are beautiful. Like the cake ice cream example even with cakes you have chocolate, red velvet, cheesecake, vanilla, etc all different flavours.
Here are some synonyms of compassion: solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth. None of these require suffering to activate them.
If humans lived without dying they would have found a way to live with an increasing population without exploding. First, the reason people want children the most is to live vicariously in their children even after death. With that pressure off I imagine that people would take longer to have children. Another reason people wanted lots of children was to aid in the acquisition of resources more quickly, that pressure would also be nonexistent.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 11:12pm On Dec 18, 2018|
What if I cannot take the glass away. Secondly she has ear to hear. The ear is not for fancy is for a purpose.
She is no zombie. She has ears to hear and listen. Even if I can take away the object how will she learn obedience and trust. A wise son/daughter obediently obeys their parent words. But the foolish ones heed not instruction. Christ is the end of all evil.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by bloodofthelamb(m): 11:22pm On Dec 18, 2018|
How can one be loyal if there is nothing to test your loyalty on? How can you say James is brilliant if he has not sat for an examination and pass?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by ColdPizzas: 11:52pm On Dec 18, 2018|
Do you agree that profound music and works of art that evoke feelings of sadness and grief are a product of evil? If yes wouldn't such profound experiences be unachievable without the existence of evil?
What's the dictionary definition of compassion? You mustn't try to defend an argument even though you know it is wrong. Sometimes it's wiser to just admit you are wrong.
According to Merriam-Webster dictionary: Compassion is a feeling of wanting to help someone who is sick, hungry, introuble, etc. According to Oxford dictionary: Compassion is a strong feeling of sympathy for people who are suffering. Compassion isn't the equivalent of those words you got out of some wack thesaurus. The only word synonymous with compassion is sympathy.
I don't think living vicariously in their children after death is the only reason people have children. Most people find joy in parenthood, especially women. To be honest, I find this line of argument weird and terribly disturbing because there are just so many potholes that I don't even see the point in addressing because they all suggest that the group of people that you are referring to aren't even humans. If humans live for ever how do they age? At what age do they stop aging? If humans can wait as long as they want to have kids, how about the menopausal cycle in women? How about menstruation? That's pretty uncomfortable for women. If pain and discomfort don't exist, does menstruation also not exist? If women don't menstruate anymore, then how do their reproductive systems work? Are these people you are referring to even humans? At the end it just seems that your argument is that God shouldn't have created humans in the first place.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 8:45am On Dec 19, 2018|
LoL you are just deceiving yourself. You and I both know you will immediately take that glass away but keep deceiving yourself.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 9:31am On Dec 19, 2018|
Artists take inspiration from their environment so an environment free of evil is no obstacle to producing art. Its that simple.
LoL its the same Webster you are quoting from you are calling wack. Feast your eyes: https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/compassion
BTW my argument doesn't stand on our ability to feel compassion, it stands on our ability to feel emotion both in good times and in bad times. Even if I conceded that compassion hinges on bad situations, you have to also concede that love does not. Neither does a host of many other emotions.
We are evolved creatures so if per chance we evolved without some particular emotion we won't have cared we would be who we would be. Just as if we had evolved with tails or horns, we would be regaling ourselves with how glorious our tails or horns are.
LoL I can see I am talking with someone who is very low in the imagination department so yes there is no point in continuing a discussion with you. Thinking of complex concepts must be giving you a headache.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 9:38am On Dec 19, 2018|
Because there are many ways to show brilliance than passing tests. Leonardo da Vinci was one of the most famous of the Renaissance men, he had no formal education in science but he was a brilliant scientific thinker, painter, sculptor, anatomist, etc. If your god could not figure that out then I can see why you think it is necessary.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by MuttleyLaff: 9:46am On Dec 19, 2018|
bloodofthelamb:If I wield the same as in be in the position of omniscience, omnipotent and omnipresence I will wait for the accident to happen
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 11:35am On Dec 19, 2018|
Lemme indulge you. Why?
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by MuttleyLaff: 11:54am On Dec 19, 2018|
LordReed:I just knew you'll be itching to know why.
1/ I am in control of the situation and still be in control in what follows after it, is why
2/ It is necessary to wait for the accident to happen is another why
3/ Immediately taking the glass away from her (i.e. taking away the ToKoG&E?) will be self-defeating.
4/ Obviously, my decision is based on me being Sovereign
5/ My ability to make an informed decision permits me.
6/ There is a reason in this apparently inexplicable behavior of wait for the accident to happen.
|Re: What Is The Morality Of Hell? by LordReed(m): 12:44pm On Dec 19, 2018|
LoL! So the knowledge of suffering the child will undergo does not move you in any way. Well thank for making clear you share the cruelty of your imaginary god. Thank you very much.
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