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Can Jesus Really Die For Our Sins by truthlover: 3:05pm On Jan 15, 2019
CAN JESUS REALLY DIE FOR OUR SINS ?
To arrive at the answer to this important question, let us consider the following premises of argument



PREMISE 1:
According to the Christians, one of the God's PURPOSE of sending Jesus to the Earth was to DIE FOR OUR SINS on the cross of Calvary. Consequently, the CURSE of God that is supposed to be on the head of every UNREPENTANT sinner was now laid upon an INNOCENT and RIGHTEOUS soul called Jesus Christ . See Galatians 3:13 NIV quoted below
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a CURSE for us, for it is written: “CURSED is everyone who is hung on a pole"



PREMISE 2:
But Jesus could NOT have NATURALLY died on the cross for our sins. He has to be nailed by some one else. In other words, Jesus must be KILLED for our sins. If this is the case, then we are free to conclude that the alleged KILLING of Jesus on the cross (which made him to fall allegedly under the CURSE of God) was MASTERMINDED by God.
The Christians may want to argue that it was not God that killed Jesus Christ. But who, at first instance, REQUESTED for the death of Jesus on the cross in order to forgive our sins or resolve the problem of sin ? Was he not God according to what the Christians believe ? Therefore, it is not an overstatement to conclude that alleged killing of Jesus on the cross was masterminded by God- in accordance with Christian faith.



PREMISE 3
But according to the Bible, God is the FATHER of Jesus ( John 14:28) and Jesus is the begotten SON of God (John 3:16) and it is INCUMBENT on every compassionate, merciful and lovely father to SAVE and BLESS his own innocent, righteous and beloved son and NEVER to think of KILLING or putting him under a CURSE in order to resolve a certain problem or to achieve a particular aim - UNLESS the condition of things is BEYOND the control and the power of the father ; like the case of Abraham who was commanded by God to sacrifice his only son as a way of TESTING his love and faith in God. The condition of things is BEYOND the control and the power of Abraham because it was God (who gave him the son in the first place) that commanded him to sacrifice the same son. Therefore, being a very strong believer, Abraham had no option other than to follow God's command. Otherwise, he would NEVER have thought of killing his own son.



PREMISE 4:
However, if the father himself is the OMNIPOTENT creator of all things and the planner of everything from the VERY BEGINNING TO THE END then, UNLIKE the case of Abraham, the condition of things can NEVER beyond the control and the power of such a father.



PREMISE 5:
Hence, follow from premises 3 and 4, the THOUGHT of killing and putting his own beloved and righteous son under a curse in order to resolve a certain problem ( like the problem of sin) or to achieve a particular aim (like salvation of humanity) SHOULD NOT EVEN COME to the mind of such an OMNIPOTENT father. If this is true, then the assertion that Jesus died for our sins on the cross is NOT true.
The only way to avoid this conclusion is for the Christians to deny the premise 3 which says
" It is INCUMBENT on every compassionate, merciful and lovely father to SAVE and BLESS his own innocent, righteous and beloved son and NEVER to think of KILLING or putting him under a CURSE in order to resolve a certain problem or to achieve a particular aim - UNLESS the condition of things is BEYOND the control and the power of the father "
However, to deny this premise is an impossible task. This is because if the condition of things is NEVER beyond the control and the power of the father, then why would such a compassionate, lovely and merciful father just decide by his own free will to KILL and put his own INNOCENT, RIGHTEOUS and BELOVED son under a CURSE ?
Of course, it is completely IRRATIONAL for an innocent, righteous and beloved SON of a compassionate, lovely and merciful FATHER to be under the CURSE of the same father !!!

The God of the Bible, the alleged father of Jesus Christ, has been described in the same Bible as being compassionate, lovely and merciful ( See Psalm 78:38, 145:8-9, Luke 6:36, 1 John 4:8 etc ).

Similarly, Christians also agree that Jesus must be an innocent, righteous and beloved son .
Therefore, in order to avoid the IRRATIONALITY of putting such an innocent, righteous and beloved son under the CURSE of such a compassionate, lovely and merciful father, the conclusion we arrived at in premise 5 above that "Jesus did NOT die on the cross for our sins" must be perfectly true.
Even Paul knew very well that it is IRRATIONAL to believe that Jesus was ACCURSED by God. This is the reason why he contradicts himself by saying as follows;

"Therefore I want you to understand that NO ONE speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed !” (1st Corinthians 12:3)

Yet the ONLY WAY for Jesus not to become "accursed" by God was for him NOT to die on the cross since it is clearly written in the the same Bible that ANYONE that is crucified is accursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23, Galatians 3:13 ).


PREMISE 6:
Therefore, if premise 5 is true and Jesus did NOT die on the cross for our sin, then God MUST have chosen at least one RATIONAL way to resolve the problem of sin and make the humanity entitled to His salvation. Yes this rational way is

"REPENTANCE from sinful ways and then engaging in the acts of RIGHTEOUSNESS " as declare in the following verses;


"The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if a wicked man TURNS (i:e REPENTS) from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. NONE OF THE TRANSGRESSIONS which he has committed shall be remembered against him; Because of the RIGHTEOUSNESS which he has done, HE SHALL LIVE. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should TURN FROM HIS WAYS AND LIVE ? (Ezekiel 18:20-23)".

I CAME not to call the righteous but SINNERS TO REPENTANCE (Luke 5:32) ; i:e Jesus came NOT to die for the sinners but to call the sinners to repentance

Please kindly point out the premise you think is not true for the sake of God.
Re: Can Jesus Really Die For Our Sins by Originakalokalo(m): 4:19pm On Jan 15, 2019
For God SO LOVE the world that he gave his only begotten son....

God the Father Love the world and Jesus DECIDED to pay the price for humanity. ...

(John 10 )
------------
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The Father loves Jesus the son because HE DECIDED TO LAY DOWN HIS LIFE.... He knew what he was going for and he willingly accepted it...

The issue of curse by the loving father does not hold water..... The son decided to take the curse on his own accord...


You quoted the book of Ezekiel about forgiveness of sins...

When God made this statement, animal sacrifice was still going on ......God was only saying that animal sacrifice should be followed by genuine repentance...

God asked Israelites to sacrifice animals for their sins... He could have told them to just repent....

Instead, he gave them a thorough procedure of how the process should be done...

In Egypt, God instructed Israel to use the blood of a blameless lamb as a cover from the destroyer..... as he passed to kill all the firstborn son of Egypt..

God could still destroy the first born by simply identifying Israel without the use of the blood....

This method is simply a notice to the world that a blameless sacrifice comes that will exclude anyone from the destruction that comes with God's judgement..

Yahweh used blood for the remission of sins...

Jesus told the Pharisees "you will die in your sins if you don't believe that I am he"

Summary.:

Read this summary in order....
1.
Man sinned and God rectified this through animal sacrifice..

2.
Animal sacrifice was not entirely sufficient... Animal's blood could not cleanse man's sin.... ANIMAL AND MAN.

Animal's blood is also not sufficient because 3billion people who are Christians cannot go to Jerusalem

everytime they commit sins... How many priests from levites would do this?

For a universal church, a universal sacrifice is needed.. One sacrifice, once and for all.

3. GOD Required a better sacrifice.... A Blameless Man.
Jesus Surrendered himself.

Father was thrilled....

4. Just like animal sacrifice that Yahweh endorsed, Anyone whose sin is to be forgiven must believe in the sacrifice..... That Jesus had taken his place in judgement...

Animal sacrifice required that the sinner PLACED HIS HAND ON THE ANIMAL.

5. finally, Jesus then said.... If anyone accept this sacrifice, his sins are forgiven and he has eternal life..

If anyone does not accept his sacrifice,

He is condemned ALREADY.

Not until the day of judgement. ....

He is condemned NOW.
Re: Can Jesus Really Die For Our Sins by Goshen360(m): 6:37am On Jan 16, 2019
There is a DIFFERENCE between sin (noun, as in the sin nature) and sinS ( as in a verb).

Study the word and your eyes of understanding be opened
Re: Can Jesus Really Die For Our Sins by Bacteriologist(m): 1:52am On Jan 17, 2019
How Could Jesus have died for your sins? When he's immortal??

Stop making a big deal out of it. Nope. He only took a weekend vacation.

Anybody would take that deal. Take a rest from heaven for three days and resume back a tad more powerful.

Re: Can Jesus Really Die For Our Sins by Kobojunkie: 8:21pm On Jan 18
truthlover:
CAN JESUS REALLY DIE FOR OUR SINS ?
To arrive at the answer to this important question, let us consider the following premises of argument
PREMISE 1:
According to the Christians, one of the God's PURPOSE of sending Jesus to the Earth was to DIE FOR OUR SINS on the cross of Calvary. Consequently, the CURSE of God that is supposed to be on the head of every UNREPENTANT sinner was now laid upon an INNOCENT and RIGHTEOUS soul called Jesus Christ . See Galatians 3:13 NIV quoted below
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a CURSE for us, for it is written: “CURSED is everyone who is hung on a pole.
Indeed, the Christians have a terrible habit of putting words into the mouth of the God of Israel, and His Son Jesus Christ. lipsrsealed

God of Israel never hinted at sending His Son to die for the sins of mankind, neither did Jesus Christ Himself propose that He was sent to be a replacement or alternative for the Israelites whom He was sent to save. Rather, what Jesus Christ made clear was that He was a bronze snake sent to offer a path to redemption for the Lost sheep of Israel who are condemned by the God of Israel. All of Israel was condemned by the God of Israel after He judged and dispatched to the ends of the world the Jewish remnants over 1900 years ago. undecided

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