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You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... - Religion - Nairaland

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You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by JujuSugar(f): 6:17am On Feb 18
"Can you prove there is no God?"
This is a question I often see being tossed around in these sections by some christian apologists. Now I'm going to be honest.....
If you are christian and you think this is a good argument to use against atheists and all other non-theists as an argument for YHWH, you must either be out of your mind, or deliberately deceiving yourself.....
When we say God, we aren't just talking of YHWH, we're talking about every single deity that has ever been worshipped or acknowledged on planet earth.........
Not to mention, this low effort question contains a couple of fallacies.....
1st fallacy: that atheists make the claim, and hold the position that God does not exist. The majority of atheists (often labeled as 'agnostic atheists') hold the position of lack of belief/non-belief/<null> belief in the existence of supernatural Deities/Gods. This position is categorically different than the position ("e.g. God does not exist") presented in the question. This is an example of a strawman fallacy.
2nd fallacy: the reverse burden of proof fallacy. The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim. From the context of the question asked, it is unknown if one believes in some unidentified God; regardless, unless explicitly stated by an atheist that one/some/more/all Gods do not exist (a knowledge position), then the atheist does not have the burden of proof to support the non-belief position. See the null hypothesis

However, a theist (take christians for example) is making a positive claim for the existence of one/more Gods by their belief in God(s). If you are a theist, can you make a dependable presentation of the burden of proof, via dependable evidence, and/or supportable argument that is free from logical fallacies and which can be shown to actually be applicable to this reality, to a level of significance (or level of reliability and confidence) above some acceptable threshold [an appeal to emotion as a threshold for consideration would be insufficient - even though the consequences of the actualization of God(s) is extraordinary] to support or justify
(1) rejection of the null or baseline position of non-belief in Gods, and
(2) acceptance/belief that one or more Gods exist.

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Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by GuyWise101: 6:59am On Feb 18
A
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by TheArranger: 10:59am On Feb 18
There have been between 2500-3000 Gods worshipped in civilization that we currently know of. Everyone to me is atheistic in some way because you choose to reject simply every other God. Yet, Gods have been proven to be merely man made creation. A form of Agent Detection that creates an ideal of survivalist beliefs in humans.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by HellVictorinho(m): 3:33pm On Feb 18
After discussing "God",wetin we gain ?

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Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by budaatum: 4:38pm On Feb 18
JujuSugar:
"Can you prove there is no God?"
This is a question I often see being tossed around in these sections by some christian apologists. Now I'm going to be honest.....
If you are christian and you think this is a good argument to use against atheists and all other non-theists as an argument for YHWH, you must either be out of your mind, or deliberately deceiving yourself.....
I agree. A Christian asking anyone to prove that God does not exist "must either be out of your mind, or deliberately deceiving yourself". That perhaps is why many claim to 'believe' God exists as opposed to 'knowing' that God exists. It sure is why many worship Jesus in fact, since the evidence for the existence of Jesus is more accessible than that for God except amongst the Jesus deniers who really are not much different to the flat earthers.

A Christian who attempts to prove the existence of God to atheists through argument is wasting their time and disobeying God. To begin with, God is a spirit and spirits are unseen. Even the holy text says "no one has ever seen God", so what exactly is it that one is required to present as evidence that God exists? And then there's the question of "exist where, exactly"? These are questions Christians appear to struggle with, it would seem, and which I shall attempt to respond to.

When a Christian is asked to prove that God exists, their mind should jump to when Christ was asked to “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”

The devil is clearly saying, "show me your God exists", and the appropriate response is "Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”

I have always been fascinated by the creation of humans as depicted in scripture.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.


The above text allows the believer to claim "look at me and see God", "in the image of God he created me". Two problems arise however when the believer is looked upon and nothing godly is seen in them - hardly evidence, would be the appropriate retort. The other is that one seems to be saying oneself is God, which many Christians would never claim. But I would ask, why not? Is it not true that "the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being" "in the image of God", so "let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven" that shines forth from you the salt of the earth? Or is it the case that one is still just mud awaiting the breath of life to be breathed into it? If the Kingdom of God is truly breathed into me, then I am the evidence for my God and by my fruit shall my God be manifested, but if I walk an ungodly walk, it is not God that does not exist, but the devil that does. After all, my fruit is of particular relevance.

So let your fruits be of the spirit of God, Christian, a light that shines before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven, if the Spirit of God truly exists in the mud that you are!

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Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by HellVictorinho(m): 7:44pm On Feb 18
budaatum:

I agree. A Christian asking anyone to prove that God does not exist "must either be out of your mind, or deliberately deceiving yourself". That perhaps is why many claim to 'believe' God exists as opposed to 'knowing' that God exists. It sure is why many worship Jesus in fact, since the evidence for the existence of Jesus is more accessible than that for God except amongst the Jesus deniers who really are not much different to the flat earthers.

A Christian who attempts to prove the existence of God to atheists through argument is wasting their time and disobeying God. To begin with, God is a spirit and spirits are unseen. Even the holy text says "no one has ever seen God", so what exactly is it that one is required to present as evidence that God exists? And then there's the question of "exist where, exactly"? These are questions Christians appear to struggle with, it would seem, and which I shall attempt to respond to.

When a Christian is asked to prove that God exists, their mind should jump to when Christ was asked to “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”

The devil is clearly saying, "show me your God exists", and the appropriate response is "Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”

I have always been fascinated by the creation of humans as depicted in scripture.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


The above text allows the believer to claim "look at me and see God", "in the image of God he created me". Two problems arise however when the believer is looked upon and nothing godly is seen in them - hardly evidence, would be the appropriate retort. The other is that one seems to be saying oneself is God, which many Christians would never claim. But I would ask, why not? Is it not true that "the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being" "in the image of God", so "let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven" that shines forth from you the salt of the earth? Or is it the case that one is still just mud awaiting the breath of life to be breathed into it? If the Kingdom of God is truly breathed into me, then I am the evidence for my God and by my fruit shall my God be manifested, but if I walk an ungodly walk, it is not God that does not exist, but the devil that does. After all, my fruit is of particular relevance.

So let your fruits be of the spirit of God, Christian, a light that shines before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven, if the Spirit of God truly exists in the mud that you are!
Nature is insane.
"God" is a word used to describe several nonsense.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by budaatum: 5:32pm On Aug 31
HellVictorinho:

Nature is insane.
"God" is a word used to describe several nonsense.
Or things that are misunderstood.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by CCCAddict: 6:23pm On Aug 31
Seriously?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by HellVictorinho(m): 7:40am On Sep 12
budaatum:

Or things that are misunderstood.
or things that you can never really understand or things that can only induce lunacy/indescribable behavioural misdemeanor such that they must never be questioned
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 11:17am On Sep 12
lol since when is asking some1 proof for their assertions a fallacy?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 2:24pm On Sep 12
rekinomtla:
lol since when is asking some1 proof for their assertions a fallacy?

Where did the OP say that it was?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by vaxx: 2:44pm On Sep 12
HellVictorinho:

Nature is insane.
"God" is a word used to describe several nonsense.
That is your opinion. it is baseless.

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Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 3:51pm On Sep 12
LordReed:


Where did the OP say that it was?

"There is no god" is an assertion made by lots of atheists.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 5:51pm On Sep 12
rekinomtla:


"There is no god" is an assertion made by lots of atheists.

Does the OP say they have no burden of proof in that case? And does it say it is a fallacy?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 8:46pm On Sep 12
LordReed:


Does the OP say they have no burden of proof in that case? And does it say it is a fallacy?

The op says "Not to mention, this low effort question contains a couple of fallacies".
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 9:19pm On Sep 12
rekinomtla:


The op says "Not to mention, this low effort question contains a couple of fallacies".

Did you read the 1st fallacy? Which clearly states that the statement is a strawman?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 10:03pm On Sep 12
LordReed:


Did you read the 1st fallacy? Which clearly states that the statement is a strawman?

It's not a strawman, atheism has and is still defined in philosophical and ordinary dictionaries as the belief that there are no deities.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 10:36pm On Sep 12
rekinomtla:


It's not a strawman, atheism has and is still defined in philosophical and ordinary dictionaries as the belief that there are no deities.

Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 12:10am On Sep 13
[quote author=LordReed post=82180181][/quote]

Philosophical Dictionaries/Encyclopedias:

- Blackwell Dictionary of Western Philosophy (2004), p. 530: “The belief that God – especially a personal, omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God – does not exist.”

- Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy (1998), entry by William Rowe: “As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. … the common use of ‘atheism’ to mean disbelief in God is so thoroughly entrenched, we will follow it. We may use the term ‘non-theist’ to characterize the position of the negative atheist.”

- The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy (1998) :atheism (from Greek a-, ‘not’, and theos, ‘god’), the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in God and is consistent with agnosticism. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no God; this use has become the standard one.

Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 12:12am On Sep 13
Hence, not a strawman to ask an atheist if he/she can prove there is no God.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 11:35am On Sep 13
rekinomtla:


Philosophical Dictionaries/Encyclopedias:

- Blackwell Dictionary of Western Philosophy (2004), p. 530: “The belief that God – especially a personal, omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God – does not exist.”

- Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy (1998), entry by William Rowe: “As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. … the common use of ‘atheism’ to mean disbelief in God is so thoroughly entrenched, we will follow it. We may use the term ‘non-theist’ to characterize the position of the negative atheist.”

- The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy (1998) :atheism (from Greek a-, ‘not’, and theos, ‘god’), the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in God and is consistent with agnosticism. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no God; this use has become the standard one.
rekinomtla:
Hence, not a strawman to ask an atheist if he/she can prove there is no God.

So what it boils down to is which dictionary you are looking at. It is left to the atheist to decide what type of atheism they hold to. In the case of the OP, they make it clear they don't say there is no god. It remains fallacious because you cannot say all atheists are saying there is no god and the OP is clear that those that do have a burden of proof.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 2:22pm On Sep 13
LordReed:

So what it boils down to is which dictionary you are looking at. It is left to the atheist to decide what type of atheism they hold to. In the case of the OP, they make it clear they don't say there is no god.
Hence its not fallacious.

It remains fallacious because you cannot say all atheists are saying there is no god and the OP is clear that those that do have a burden of proof.
But nobody is claiming that all atheists are saying there is no god. Theists are just asking a simple question based on the standard definition of atheism.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 3:19pm On Sep 13
rekinomtla:
Hence its not fallacious.

But nobody is claiming that all atheists are saying there is no god. Theists are just asking a simple question based on the standard definition of atheism.

How can you ask a question based on a standard definition that does not cover every position and then claim its not fallacious? Would you not call it fallacious if I ask you a question from JWs or Mormons theology because you are all Christians?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 5:37pm On Sep 13
LordReed:

How can you ask a question based on a standard definition that does not cover every position and then claim its not fallacious? Would you not call it fallacious if I ask you a question from JWs or Mormons theology because you are all Christians?

That would be an unjustified assumption since theres 1000s of christian denominations.

Atheism basically only has two definitions floating around, asking a question based on the standard one is completely justified. Atheists who define themselves differently can ignore the question instead of asserting it is fallacious.
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 6:26pm On Sep 13
rekinomtla:


That would be an unjustified assumption since theres 1000s of christian denominations.

Atheism basically only has two definitions floating around, asking a question based on the standard one is completely justified. Atheists who define themselves differently can ignore the question instead of asserting it is fallacious.

If you won't take the time to ask me my position, why should I give you the benefit of the doubt?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 7:05pm On Sep 13
LordReed:

If you won't take the time to ask me my position, why should I give you the benefit of the doubt?

You could just clarify your position.

On a different note, would you consider the question "Who created God?" to be just as fallacious?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 7:17pm On Sep 13
rekinomtla:


You could just clarify your position.

On a different note, would you consider the question "Who created God?" to be just as fallacious?

The OP did.

In what context?
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by rekinomtla(m): 8:13pm On Sep 13
LordReed:

The OP did.
But then went on to assert that the question contains loads of fallacies, which is false.

In what context?
In the context of a debate between an atheist and theist on the kalam cosmological argument, is it fallacious to ask "who created god?"
Re: You Can't Prove That God Does Not Exist..... by LordReed(m): 8:40pm On Sep 13
rekinomtla:
But then went on to assert that the question contains loads of fallacies, which is false.

It is not false because the OP clarifies which form of atheism is in question.


In the context of a debate between an atheist and theist on the kalam cosmological argument, is it fallacious to ask "who created god?"

If the theist is using the William Lane Craig form then it would be fallacious to ask that question.

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