LordReed:
LMFAO while SMDH. Nothing worth responding to here really except the bolded. Examples: a child knowing how to suck, never missing your mouth when you eat, yours eyes noticing movement in your peripheral vision, etc. All of them built from survival mechanics aka instincts.

TV01:

And which of these has any moral implications or, benefits from applying higher cognitive capability or, poses a threat to developing civilisations? Where acting on "instinct" has potentially deleterious outcomes, mans HCC kicks in to moderate or, otherwise channel for the greater good.

The examples you provided are more innate biological functions, as opposed to considered responses to desires or urges, such as fear or flight in dangerous situations, or the urge to mate.

And where in such instances man gives leave to his baser self, or simply allows instinct to drive, the outcomes are never edifying, least of all in a "civilizational" sense.

So attempting to link mans urges - and at once subsume mans HCC to these urges - to justify behaviour that is deleterious (or perverted) will always be a fail - except of course for those who wish to be dictated to by their urges .

LordReed:
The question was is man driven by instinct and the answer is yes. Does he moderate his actions due to HCC? Yes he does. None of which negates what I have said. Any morality any man expresses it is because he learnt it, there is no god giving anything from anywhere.

TV01:
Which is why I thought your response garbled. One cannot "be driven" by something, whilst that something is subsumed to another thing. Plainly contradictory.

The baser the instinct and the less about basic biological functioning (such as blinking), the more mans HCC come into play otherwise civilisation would not have happened.

Look around you, what is holding the less developed nations back? It can be simply summed as allowing their baser instincts to overcome their HCC.

Men have a conscience. Be that part learnt or part innate - to whatever degree - it is something our HCC allows us to scrutinise and make sense of. Conscience can also be dulled or totally seared. After all, we have a name for those who are able to act in an unconscionable manner?

And whilst I believe that there is a God, and that He created man with HCC and a conscience. I did not introduce that into this conversation. Why are you always touched when considering the divine? .

LordReed:
What nonsense are you talking? Is your steering wheel what drives your car or the engine?

LordReed:


It means exactly that, conscience is a developed trait which is influenced by the society and people in your environment. Every child learns first by emulating the people it first encounters, usually the parents then assimilating the culture of the wider society, these are the things that develop the conscience. If a child grows up in a society where eating pork is the norm for example, it will not develop a conscience that tells him/her that it is wrong while the a child who grows up with the notion that eating pork is wrong will have a conscience that niggles him/her whenever pork as food is mentioned.

Yes it is reasonable you discuss it because I have brought new information that counters what you posted before. It is an unreasonable response to ask me to go look at your first post in the light of the new information.

The question was, where did I suggest such a thing? Are you are being dishonest now?

TV01:

Poor analogy, but once you figure out which is steering wheel and which is engine you'll be fine .

Ihedinobi3:

So we are not born with a conscience, correct? We only acquire it from other people we meet when we come into existence. Where then do these people themselves acquire this "culture" from?

The etymology was hardly new information. I explained to you what the roots of "pornography" are. You merely took another form of the same word and tried to ram it down my throat. That was also beside the point because the issue is whether "porneia" or "sexual immorality" does or does not embrace pornography as well. Even if pornography means "depicting prostitutes" (as it does), how does that exclude it from sexual immorality as a concept which the Bible warns believers to flee from?

I ignored your question because I said that you seemed to be suggesting that social mores have no source. I did not say that you actually suggested it. When you insist that human beings derive their conscience from social mores or culture without explaining how the latter exists, then it does seem like you are saying that it is self-existing. As it is, you have gone back to claim that social mores come from nature (human nature, I presume) and now turned around again to insist that human moral behavior derives from it again. You are literally all over the place because you won't admit that human conscience is where culture derives from, not the other way around. Admitting that would instantly force you to ask how human beings come prepackaged with a moral conscience. It would also force you to deal with the actual dictates of this conscience that are incredibly universal. You can't want that since it would just destroy your atheism.

LordReed:


The same way we get every other "sophisticated" thing, through a reiterative process that starts from simple things to more complex things. For example our tools, we went from stone tools all the way to using light to cut things. So also culture and conscience went from primitive instincts to sophisticated organisational/cultural layouts and moral codes.

Ram what down your throat? I showed you the root words of pornography which are a direct contradiction of your assertion that is comes from the word porneia and here you are saying I want to ram something down your throat. The two words have nothing to do with porneia contrary to what you'd have us believe. Porne is derived from pernanai which means to sell. So tell us again how pornography is derived from porneia and how I rammed something down your throat.

I never mentioned anything about how human culture arose until you brought it up so I am baffled to how I suggested such a thing before you asked me. You keep going on and on about a prepackaged conscience when I already answered that, maybe you should look at my previous post. LMAO!

Ihedinobi3:

Still not answering the question. Clearly, we possess instincts that have remained the same, from what you said: we build tools, whether simple stone tools or complex hi-tech equipment. In the same way, however complex social organization may be now, it is the same instinct that, in your narrative, formed tribes that is behind all social institutions existing today. Where did that instinct come from? Or are you saying that cultures fell on human beings out of nothing?

First and more important, this is still a red herring. Wherever you insist the word comes from, pornography is clearly sexual immorality and thus falls under the activity that Christians ought to flee. Second and of less consequence, you are wrong, of course:

Etymology
From French pornographie, from Ancient Greek πορνογράφος (pornográphos), from πορνεία (porneía, “fornication, prostitution”) + γράφω (gráphō, “I depict”).
- https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/pornography

Origin
Mid 19th century: from Greek pornographos ‘writing about prostitutes’, from pornē ‘prostitute’ + graphein ‘write’.
- https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pornography

You countered my argument to claim that there is no such thing as a conscience because our moral behavior derives from social mores. And I asked you where such mores come from since they can only be explained by the interaction of individual consciences. You've kept bobbing and weaving since and still walking into every single punch .

LordReed:


Which part of "through a reiterative process that starts from simple things to more complex things" is hard for you to understand?

porne "prostitute," originally "bought, purchased," pernanai "to sell;" Latin pretium "reward, prize, value, worth;" Lithuanian perku "I buy." …
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=porne

Chai! Why do you have to lie now? Show me where I claimed that there is no such thing as a conscience because our moral behavior derives from social mores.

TheArranger:
The porn industry is notoriously exploitative. They generally post ads that look like ads for normal acting jobs, because most women do not actively search out jobs in the porn industry.
https://verilymag.com/2015/08/porn-industry-playboy-mansion-sex-trafficking-belle-knox-rashida-jones-holly-madison

When you say that nothing can be morally wrong when parties consent, I would agree, with the provision that consent has to be informed. People entering the porn industry are generally not informed of what the risks are, of what they are getting themselves into.

There are also links between sex trafficking and pornography.
http://humantraffickingsearch.org/the-connection-between-sex-trafficking-and-pornography/

About 36% of porn stars were molested as children. They have high rates of drug and alcohol addiction. They are among most countries' most vulnerable and desperate citizens. Then they get suckered into a job that makes them less employable, in an industry rife with drugs and assault, and tends to warp people mentally.

I don’t think this makes pornography wrong in itself, but the way the industry is now set up is unethical. Stronger Unions and better government oversight would be good first step.