"Nigeria is not a nation. It is a mere geographical expression. There are no ‘Nigerians’ in the same sense as there are ‘English,’ ‘Welsh,’ or ‘French.’ The word ‘Nigerian’ is merely a distinctive appellation to distinguish those who live within the boundaries of Nigeria and those who do not.”- Obafemi Awolowo, Path to Nigerian Freedom

Reading all the back and forth about zoning on this forum got me thinking,

Is it not the case that the political foundations of Nigeria are INHERENTLY unstable, and that we will never reach a point where only merit will determine who governs this country? It should be obvious that if only the best from every region have a say, then mediocrity and inadequacy, incompetence, etc. will be severely reduced, but with the different sections of the country not being equally developed prior to independence and with no amount of oil money or any other industry being able to bring every part of the country to some high degree of prosperity (i.e. wealth without real work, like Saudi Arabia, or actual oil-rich countries) and level the playing field to allow those who were not able to compete in a merit based system to compete, what incentive will there ever be to adopt a purely merit based stance towards government and development?

The only people still using tribe as their nationality are the older generation, and it makes sense, my grandfather doesn't call himself nigerian, my father calls himself nigerian but identifies himself more as and igbo, and i myself see myself as nigerian first

i've come to realize that people around my age group (below 25) see themselves as Nigerian first, especially in the diaspora

things like pidgin, pop culture, travel, globalization and friendships/relationships have made Nigerian our new ethnicity. Prior to globalization we could only compare tribe to tribe, we are now entering a world where we can only compare nation to nation.


Of course tribe is still very dominate in how someone defines 'nigerian'. and things like tradition, marriage, and even relationships are still very tribal, but for the most part nigerians of the newer generation want to be uncompromisingly Nigerian.

A LOT of igbo kids born in Lagos are identifying themselves as Lagosians, as well as Yoruba kids born in Port identifying themselves a person from Port Harcourt. Agree with it or not, but this is what i've noticed.

Ikengawo:

The only people still using tribe as their nationality are the older generation, and it makes sense, my grandfather doesn't call himself nigerian, my father calls himself nigerian but identifies himself more as and igbo, and i myself see myself as nigerian first

i've come to realize that people around my age group (below 25) see themselves as Nigerian first, especially in the diaspora

things like pidgin, pop culture, travel, globalization and friendships/relationships have made Nigerian our new ethnicity. Prior to globalization we could only compare tribe to tribe, we are now entering a world where we can only compare nation to nation.


Of course tribe is still very dominate in how someone defines 'nigerian'. and things like tradition, marriage, and even relationships are still very tribal, but for the most part nigerians of the newer generation want to be uncompromisingly Nigerian.

A LOT of igbo kids born in Lagos are identifying themselves as Lagosians, as well as Yoruba kids born in Port identifying themselves a person from Port Harcourt. Agree with it or not, but this is what i've noticed.

Dude you are really funny . . . better speak for yourself!!

But it's the biggest black nation on earth, aren't you happy?!

Dude you are really funny . . . better speak for yourself!!

i am.


look at our musicians. p square (anambra) claim Jos very readily
All lagosian artists claim lagos even if they're parents aren't form lagos. all tribes.

even here in the states many claim the city THEY were born in quicker then the village their dad was.

We are all happy and at the same time unhappy,

MetalGong4:

Dude you are really funny . . . better speak for yourself!!

It wouldn't make any sense to die hard tribalists like Mr. loud noise maker.

tribalism is like racism in america.

everyone has racial animosity over here, and biases, but its no longer en vogue to be open and flamboyant about your exclusivity and/or hatred.

this is on a personal level
there's is still institutional tribalism

Ikengawo speak for your dammn self.

Only a few misguided Igbos in Lagos claim Lagos. Those are the ones who cannot even speak their mother tongue. When they come to the East, their family only shakes their head.

The Igbos in America have an excuse but an Igbo in Lagos who cannot speak their mother tongue has no excuse.

what are you going to speak igbo in lagos for? if they dont know igbo their parents, like most igbo parents outside of their village, didn't speak igbo to them, its their fault.

in the end of the day tribalism isn't getting you anywhere, nigerias national language is english, speaking igbo or yoruba is just for show cause english connects you with the world and with the nation.

let the ones in the east shake their head, lol, who cares. If you go to the east, everyone will forget igbo to talk to you. lets stop all this tribal sentiment and get real, nigeria is not an igbo speaking nation.

PhysicsQED:

"Nigeria is not a nation. It is a mere geographical expression. There are no ‘Nigerians’ in the same sense as there are ‘English,’ ‘Welsh,’ or ‘French.’ The word ‘Nigerian’ is merely a distinctive appellation to distinguish those who live within the boundaries of Nigeria and those who do not.”- Obafemi Awolowo, Path to Nigerian Freedom

Reading all the back and forth about zoning on this forum got me thinking,

Is it not the case that the political foundations of Nigeria are INHERENTLY unstable, and that we will never reach a point where only merit will determine who governs this country? It should be obvious that if only the best from every region have a say, then mediocrity and inadequacy, incompetence, etc. will be severely reduced, but with the different sections of the country not being equally developed prior to independence and with no amount of oil money or any other industry being able to bring every part of the country to some high degree of prosperity (i.e. wealth without real work, like Saudi Arabia, or actual oil-rich countries) and level the playing field to allow those who were not able to compete in a merit based system to compete, what incentive will there ever be to adopt a purely merit based stance towards government and development?

Are you asking us? I think it is time that YOU answer the question. In the thread on "the true extent of alaigbo", you basically painted yourself and your edo people as staunch "one nigerianists".
You would understand if I become baffled by these questions you are asking here.
BTW, for how long have we asked those questions? I wasn't born by then, but I guess these questions started in 1960 or even earlier.

My question to you now is this: What is YOUR best strategy for achieving the nation of your dreams? What needs to change in Nigeria?

PhysicsQED:

"Nigeria is not a nation. It is a mere geographical expression. There are no ‘Nigerians’ in the same sense as there are ‘English,’ ‘Welsh,’ or ‘French.’ The word ‘Nigerian’ is merely a distinctive appellation to distinguish those who live within the boundaries of Nigeria and those who do not.”- Obafemi Awolowo, Path to Nigerian Freedom

[b]It is stale news to announce that Nigerians are not one. Ofcourse, we have never been one.

@Ikengawo: Even the Igbo kids that have adopted the Lagosian way of life know that they have boundaries that they will never cross as Igbos in Lagos. As long as they keep claiming lagosians, they may never cross those boundaries in their lives if they don't return to their ethnic homes. The places beyond those boundaries are believed to be meant for Yorubas. You are wrong by saying that Tribalism was worse off in the days of our parents. It was better then than now. Atleast  during their days, it didn't seem strange or like an abormination for a hausa man to lead in the East Or an Igbo to lead in the west. Now, it is impossible for that to happen. As a matter of fact, the rate of inter-tribal hatred these days is beyond human comprehension. Is it not in these modern times that hausas and Beroms (That were like brothers back in the days) are butchering themselves? Is it not in these modern times that Igbos stockpile guns in readiness of their frequent massacre in the North? Tribalism is worse now. You can say it is a consequence of the civil war. Don't forget that in those days there was nothing like compulsory Zoning of positions according to ethnic nationality. It is normal to identify with the people a person grew with, but the lack of complete acceptance of the person by the people he grew with is an issue that creates division. P square may have grown in Jos, but they know where to go to if they want to hold any political office, or if they want to be totally allowed to be part of the social system of the place. I grew in the south south. I had my primary, secondary and first degree there. I always identified with them. Still I knew that I dint belong there. I was always reminded that I dint belong there. Even at the SUG level, it was clear to me that it was only people from that state that could hold the presidential political office.  I know you hope well for Nigeria. I also do. But, the situation on ground is an opposite of what we hope for.

Nigeria is not one. Nigerians are trying hard to patch on, to see if we can survive. But deep down, we all know that we are different.


[/b]

@PhysicsQED

I'm still waiting for answers to my questions.

Did you post this and run away? 

You see why I told you that the truth will not be found in your posturings at all.

I maintained that the key to successful Igbo secession from Nigeria is unearthing the real reasons behind your (and some minority) opposition to Biafra or any Igbo only country. Why you support one Nigeria without any logical reasons.

The Nigerian identity is questionable when Nigerians change their original names to European usually Christian names to be accepted by the Europeans in their land. For the Orientals, Arabs and Indians do not change their names to satisfy other races. Some Nigerian today change their identity to satisfy the west. If you do not respect your own lineage then why should anyone respect you for you are now adapting to the image of another race. This is a very negative trait taken on by some Nigerian for you are rejecting the names of your own forefathers, language, tribe and race.

Ikengawo and his cluelessness. This is a guy who couldn't name correct people on naira's note yet he is here giving us sermon about nigerian unity. Guy please go sit down somewhere and learn to talk when u know something instead of spewing crap all in the name of looking cool. My siblings were born and bred in Lagos and they speak Igbo plus the local dialect. I bet you can't utter one Igbo word hence its totally okay for some1 to not know their language. Are we supposed to be impressed by your illiteracy and ignorance?

Granted Ikengawo is poor by all aspect of the word so I would not request him/her to attempt to purchase a plot of land in Lagos. He or she must be extremely lucky to accomplish such a task even with a truck load of money because of his/her ethnicity.

If virtues had to give way to stupidity and chaos takes the place of peace in Nigeria, I bet Ikengawo would be among the escapees trekking back to his/her ethnic domain. It is pure delusional for anybody to forget the composition of the society he/she belongs.

Dede1:

Granted Ikengawo is poor by all aspect of the word so I would not request him/her to attempt to purchase a plot of land in Lagos. He or she must be extremely lucky to accomplish such a task even with a truck load of money because of his/her ethnicity.

If virtues had to give way to stupidity and chaos takes the place of peace in Nigeria, I bet Ikengawo would be among the escapees trekking back to his/her ethnic domain. It is pure delusional for anybody to forget the composition of the society he/she belongs.

GBAM

Dede1:

Granted Ikengawo is poor by all aspect of the word so I would not request him/her to attempt to purchase a plot of land in Lagos. He or she must be extremely lucky to accomplish such a task even with a truck load of money because of his/her ethnicity.

If virtues had to give way to stupidity and chaos takes the place of peace in Nigeria, I bet Ikengawo would be among the escapees trekking back to his/her ethnic domain. It is pure delusional for anybody to forget the composition of the society he/she belongs.

lol. Ikengawo reminds me of this video I watched chronicling the onset of the 1966 crisis and the subsequent civil war. Some guy who I suspect was from Igbo or Calabar/Akwa Ibom axis was lamenting that he had to leave Lagos after living there for 15 years. Mind you those days were far more tolerant than now. Ordinary people weren't armed then.
You can't stop anyone from enjoying self delusion. It can be intoxicating sometimes. Have you ever tried rehabilitating a drug addict?

Igbos should be more focused on Port Harcourt and Enugu.

On the issue of Port Harcourt, if any other group wants to start any wahala, they will know that the East 75% Igbo to start that nonsense.

Just like Yorubas out-bred the native inhabitants of Lagos, we can do the same in Port Harcourt.

I see a hope of Nigeria being more than a 'mere geographical expression' likely in the South. There's a lot of similarities between the ethnicities south of modern-day Nigeria than with the ethnicities north of Nigeria. The non-violent nature of the southern ethnicities makes it more easier for them to accept each other and live as one.

On the other hand, the islamization of the north, coupled with the likelihood of violence associated with extremism in the dominant religion there makes it increasingly difficult for ethnicities to see themselves as one.

The ethnic tensions as we have it today was fueled by the violent taking of lives that occurred in the late 60's. Ofcourse, no party is less guilty than the other in the circumstances that led to the violence and subsequent distrust amongst the Nigerian 'tribes'.

The great Zik, for instance, felt comfortable being in the western region and contesting in the house of assembly in the west, at the same time advocating for an Igbo VC in UNILAG. A lot of Hausa-Fulani kids felt comfortable living in the eastern region and speaking Igbo fluently as the natives. This was when Nigeria could truly be said to be one. All these was to change with the advent of the civil war and the resultant disharmony.

If all the ethnic groups in Nigeria were to be sincere with each other, I strongly believe we can still experience the pre-war Nigeria that the likes of Zik enjoyed, if and only if everyone is true to himself.

I think that the best thing for nigeria is to divide into 4 parts.
That way the various regions will endeavour to develop their regions as against the current central 'national cake' mentality we have.

The large bloated state we currently have actually encourages looting because the mentality is that if you emerge from
your region to the centre (Abuja), you tend not to have allegiance to anyone especially with 'other' people there too and so you loot.

If there was say, an eastern country with one  tribe , no man born of woman will loot billions of dollars away for himself.
(and come back to which village? ? mscheww). His extended family will be slaughtered on Afor market day. chikena.
This is because he is stealing his brothers' money and this will be very personal (believe this one! !)

the alternative is to have a true confederations ( a bit like the U.S where states control most of their resources and laws vary from state to state).

Onlytruth:

Are you asking us? I think it is time that YOU answer the question. In the thread on "the true extent of alaigbo", you basically painted yourself and your edo people as staunch "one nigerianists".
You would understand if I become baffled by these questions you are asking here.
BTW, for how long have we asked those questions? I wasn't born by then, but I guess these questions started in 1960 or even earlier.

My question to you now is this: What is YOUR best strategy for achieving the nation of your dreams? What needs to change in Nigeria?

Onlytruth:

@PhysicsQED

I'm still waiting for answers to my questions.

Did you post this and run away? 

You see why I told you that the truth will not be found in your posturings at all.

I maintained that the key to successful Igbo secession from Nigeria is unearthing the real reasons behind your (and some minority) opposition to Biafra or any Igbo only country. Why you support one Nigeria without any logical reasons.

Onlytruth, I already explained that I don't have any opposition to Biafra, although you can keep twisting my stance to suit your agenda if you need to. You and some other posters in that thread had a great deal of misinformation concerning the relationship between minorities and Biafra based on assumptions and conjecture and I corrected them. What I stated is that I preferred a possible powerhouse to mid-level players in the international scheme of things for reasons already spelled out very clearly in that thread. I also made it clear that the only real reason some minorities, including Edos, but excluding some Ogoni or Ijaw, don't ask for secession is the desire to be part of a country which has some greater clout, and the lack of any marginalization  of them or tragedy inflicted upon them by the Nigerian state is the other reason. Obviously for Igbos the marginalization and the tragedy outweigh the other considerations, but I explained to you why this isn't the case for some other minorities and the resulting lack of calls for secession from them, something you didn't seem to understand previously.

The international reputation of Nigeria is awful now, for reasons we all know too well. And of course this results in little international prestige or power. But whatever separate states were to be created from secession movements could never even be considered for say, a U.N. seat, or be called upon consistently to play major roles in peace keeping, or be able to have any large scale economic impact, even if every state was to become a Japan, it would still be nowhere near as good as being even half a China, although obviously, at some point (the short run) the reverse was the case (1800s-early 1900s Japan was obviously China's superior), the next centuries and the long run of achievements and power belong to a China rather than a Japan.

Asking honestly for some input from others about whether the development of the country into an actual nation, the first step into becoming something greater than a geographical cage, is possible considering the inherent flaw in the country pre-independence and whether the imbalance of merit will ever be overcome, does not amount to asserting the impossibility of Nigeria working as a nation. Obviously the fact of zoning, and of ethnic politics in general are a huge obstacle, but the question being posed to Nairalanders was essentially whether a new Nigerian nationalism could be born despite the ethnically driven politics and imbalance of development along ethnic lines. Only one person responded in the affirmative, and everybody else responded oppositely and crucified him, so I guess I got a sense of the general pessimism with regards to my question and to Nigerian unity as a whole.

Ikengawo:

what are you going to speak igbo in lagos for? if they dont know igbo their parents, like most igbo parents outside of their village, didn't speak igbo to them, its their fault.

in the end of the day tribalism isn't getting you anywhere, nigerias national language is english, speaking igbo or yoruba is just for show cause english connects you with the world and with the nation.

let the ones in the east shake their head, lol, who cares. If you go to the east, everyone will forget igbo to talk to you. lets stop all this tribal sentiment and get real, nigeria is not an igbo speaking nation.

I had to address all the bolded directly. Is this guy a Nigerian at all? What has he ever tried to achieve in Nigeria in: jobs, business, dealing with authority, etc? 

For non-Nigerians on this forum, please hear this clearly to understand this guy's delusions.
If you cannot speak one of the major Nigerian languages, you cannot go far in Nigeria: Simple fact.
Igbo man cannot go far in business deal with you if you cannot speak Igbo, and sometimes you even need to speak a dialect of Igbo to be given concessions in certain business deals. I speak from first hand experience.  

The same applies to things like politics. If you cannot speak Hausa, you cannot go far in certain political maneuvers.

Nigeria's judiciary and some banking business used to be controlled by the Yoruba and you need to speak Yoruba to break into certain deals. Even the Nigerian police and law enforcement will need you to speak the language of the boss to make headway.

This lesson is for you stoopid parents who born and raise their kids without teaching them a Nigerian language.

YOU ARE DESTROYING YOUR KIDS FUTURE IN NIGERIA IF YOU DON'T TEACH HIM/HER ONE LOCAL LANGUAGE.

People these days pretend more and say things like "I be naija boy". Wait until you need a job or a business loan or a break. Come back and tell me your experience then!  

Onlytruth,

Lets be fair my brother, language is VERY important, but can we blame the Igbos, Yorubas and Hausa in the Diaspora who cannot speak their mother tongue. It is much harder for a child to learn a language outside of Nigeria.

This goes for many African families. Now my anger is directed at Igbos who cannot speak their language yet reside in either Lagos or Abuja. They have no excuse since there are plenty of Igbos who live there and converse in our language.

I remember I was visiting my cousin and his family in Port Harcourt and when I was speaking Igbo to his children, they acted like I was speaking a foreign language. To my horror, my cousin said he doesn't want to teach his children much Igbo, because he thinks it was going to spoil their tongue. He wants them speaking perfect British English. That led to an argument and I do not think I am welcomed into his home anymore.

EzeUche22:

Onlytruth,

Lets be fair my brother, language is VERY important, but can we blame the Igbos, Yorubas and Hausa in the Diaspora who cannot speak their mother tongue. It is much harder for a child to learn a language outside of Nigeria.

This goes for many African families. Now my anger is directed at Igbos who cannot speak their language yet reside in either Lagos or Abuja. They have no excuse since there are plenty of Igbos who live there and converse in our language.

[b]I remember I was visiting my cousin and his family in Port Harcourt and when I was speaking Igbo to his children, they acted like I was speaking a foreign language. To my horror, my cousin said he doesn't want to teach his children much Igbo, because he thinks it was going to spoil their tongue. He wants them speaking perfect British English. [/b]That led to an argument and I do not think I am welcomed into his home anymore.

Ezeuche,

I have a perfect understanding of what you are saying! I've seen many of such stupidity too.

The funny thing is that if you conduct a rough survey of the number of Igbos who own land, buildings or any property worth something in Lagos, you will find that about 99% of them can speak Igbo. There is a reason for that.
Economic empowerment in Nigeria at the grass root level go by language.

The number one means of Igbo empowerment in Nigeria is through business loans (take my goods now, but pay later) and apprenticeship. You cannot get that if you cannot speak FLUENT (and sometimes deep) Igbo.

As for the difficulty of teaching a child Igbo, the parents don't think about the consequences of not teaching them.
They will wake up one day to find that their children are lagging other Igbo kids who can speak Igbo in terms of personal achievements, focus, discipline and sanity of mind.

An Igbo kid who cannot speak Igbo will most likely only seek paid employment. What distinguishes an Igbo in the Nigerian business terrain is his control of the fundamental economy. You cannot do that in (in the context of Igbo dominance) English.

So, a parent should consider teaching of Igbo to his/her kids as important as teaching them Maths, English, Physics and Chemistry. That is if you want to give your child that added edge.

If a parent understands these things, believe me, they will find a way to teach them even if they live in Siberia.

@onlytruth,Horus, and Justcash.
                  A new Nigeria nationalism could be born despite the ethnic diversities
                  and the current imbalance of developments along ethnic lines.My suggestion
                  for achieving this type of a nation we can all be proud of, will manifest by working
                  on our basic foundational problems.Key among this problems is the "questionable
                  Nigeria identity". @Horus,  You are right, it's a shame to trade your meaningful given
                  names for the hardly meaningful foreign ones. This same personal crisis of identity,
                   is ailling our nation, with such meaningless, and outright insulting word like Nigeria, as name.
                   How can one be spontaneously proud of it? Good, prayerful, meaningful  indigenous
                   name can help us foster new and strengthen existing natural bonds.

amazonia:

@onlytruth,Horus, and Justcash.
                  A new Nigeria nationalism could be born despite the ethnic diversities
                  and the current imbalance of developments along ethnic lines.My suggestion
                  for achieving this type of a nation we can all be proud of, will manifest by working
                  on our basic foundational problems.Key among this problems is the "questionable
                  Nigeria identity". @Horus,  You are right, it's a shame to trade your meaningful given
                  names for the hardly meaningful foreign ones. This same personal crisis of identity,
                   is ailling our nation, with such meaningless, and outright insulting word like Nigeria, as name.
                   How can one be spontaneously proud of it? Good, prayerful, meaningful  indigenous
                   name can help us foster new and strengthen existing natural bonds.

Yugoslavia tried the 'new nationalism' thing and failed, the UK is a federation of convenience with Scotland more than happy to leave. The definition of 'nation' itself has emphasis on common descent and history (historical ties). The Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa, as well as other nations in Nigeria aren't going to compromise their root for no Nigeria, and this is the reality most Nigerians are OK with ignoring.

And what do you mean by a 'prayerful' name?

@Ezeagu, By prayerful i mean an empowering and inspirational name. For example a name
like Oduduwa means ' The way of salvation' or 'The way of Glory. This types of
names are inspiring, and properly define our temperaments. Or word like Amandi
wish mean "bravery" is empowering.

@ezeagu,do
You are right, however, contrarily, i am suggesting the strengthening
of our roots rather than compromising them. We can achieve this by
linking to our common root. There is something most if not all our
ethnics groups have in common. Which is our ancestral heritage.
Arewa-Edo Igbo-Edo Yoruba-Edo And other groups
in between that are of Edo ancestry. We are the Edo nation. In this
scenario, no one is compromising its root. Rather, strengthen it by
linking to a common thread. This name Edo is love, its the love of God
himself bestow on human. (the holy breathe of life).

amazonia:

@ezeagu,do
                              You are right, however, contrarily, i am suggesting the strengthening
                               of our roots rather than compromising them. We can achieve this by
                                linking to our common root. There is something most if not all our
                                 ethnics groups have in common. Which is our ancestral heritage.
                                 Arewa-Edo        Igbo-Edo             Yoruba-Edo    And other groups
                                 in between that are of Edo ancestry. We are the  Edo nation. In this
                                 scenario, no one  is compromising its root. Rather, strengthen it by
                                 linking to a common thread. This name Edo is love, its the love of God
                                 himself bestow on human. (the holy breathe of life).

I have to laugh at that a little. The Igbo and Yoruba nations are at least 2000 years older than the word 'Edo'. The Edo people themselves trace their lineage back to the Yoruba and Ile-Ife is significantly involved in Edo kingship. The Igbo on the other hand have evidence of their existence dating back 6000 years ago, that's over 5000 years before the Benin Kingdom sprang out of the Yoruba. Some of the Hausa Fulani weren't even here 300 years ago, let alone having an Edo root, they don't even have Edo influence. Nigeria is a state made by the British, nothing more.

ezeagu:

I have to laugh at that a little. The Igbo and Yoruba nations are at least 2000 years older than the word 'Edo'. The Edo people themselves trace their lineage back to the Yoruba and Ile-Ife is significantly involved in Edo kingship. The Igbo on the other hand have evidence of their existence dating back 6000 years ago, that's over 5000 years before the Benin Kingdom sprang out of the Yoruba. Some of the Hausa Fulani weren't even here 300 years ago, let alone having an Edo root, they don't even have Edo influence. Nigeria is a state made by the British, nothing more.

@ezeagu, you are not correct, the British consolidated the present day Nigeria from the natural inhabitants of this region. They did not create it .Also, life did not begin in Edo with the Benin empire. Anyway, that is neither here nor there. What i do know is that all Igbo, yoruba, and pre-Mohammedanism Arewa names, and deities are coded in Edo.These are not by coincidence.