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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe (1092122 Views)
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Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by A40(m): 2:16pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist:If that coprophiliac suffering FaggötDemola does not jump into Ogunpa River today then my name is not A-40 |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 2:17pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
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Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 2:18pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
No begging, No tapout Someone must die today. Afrodoc2, I hope there is diesel in the morgue generator 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 2:20pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
A40: |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 2:26pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
I dont think Dadehmola is interested in continuing hostilities Thats a shame. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Dadehmola: 2:53pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 4:07pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Looks like spambot slammed A40 on the Chelsea thread. I see he was the last poster on the Chelsea thread but his post was hidden |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 4:10pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Dahdemola wan dey engage in guerilla warfare. Pop up, drop some quick shots, and then gbe ja.... You know see am dey laugh for thread ni. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Eruditor: 4:50pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
A40: I hate discussing Jupp's success in anyway that will sound like I am demeaning his achievements but you need to understand that in 4 seasons between Jupp and LVG, Bayern appeared in the final 3 times and in one of them Bayern did a treble yet nobody compares or compared them to Pep's Barca of 2008-09. The reason is that Pep played a brand of football that was mesmerising to fans of Cules and opposing fans alike. It wasn't about tactical mastery or parking the bus in some games that Jupp and Mou may adopt depending on the team. It was an all out attacking football with a style that was fluid and easy to watch and that's part of what he was hired for. Also I cannot tire to remind you that Pep was hired when nobody knew Bayern would do a treble. So he was being hired to do better than Jupp had done in 2012 essentially. Remember most of Jupps wins were purely tactical and scrapy? Even the win against Dortmund was, but compare that to the 2 finals Pep played where he basically destroyed United. Fergie even said they were given a hiding in the latter. That's why Pep was hired. Stop judging based on if he can play "just about anything" to win games or trophies. He won't do that. 5 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 7:19pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
But what has Pep really done sef? Like we've seen after he left, any donkey off the street can replicate his success at Barcelona. The tiki-taka philosophy is instilled from an early age at la-masia, and most of the members of that team are la-masia including pep himself... OK so he kept Xavi, moved Messi inside, promoted Busquets..but an argument could be made that being a la masia insider, he was more intimately acquainted with the original Barca/Cruyff philosophy than say LVG and Rijkaard, and thus in a better position to identify la masia graduates that would fit the philosophy. With the array of world class talent at his disposal at Barca, should we even be lauding his 'achievements'? I mean Messi is clearly a freak of nature... At Bayern, Pep once again has access to the best players in the world, but is competing in a one horse league. Can we genuinely expect anything less than domestic clean sweeps from Bayern with that squad? especially with their tendencies to cannibalise their closest competition Why does pep keep failing in Europe when he faces competition that is either at par or slightly superior to his squad? Is Pep really that much of a genius at all? Compare to Jose who has won UCL TWICE in thr capacity of an underdog. Oya Barca boys - sebod dmcdad homesteady fall in. BAYERN boys, you too. 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 7:33pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Pep 4 years in Barca won 2 CL titles, lost 2 Semis. Post Pep Barca has won 1 CL title failed semi once and quarter finals twice with a swuad you can even argue was more talented than what Pep had. That is what Pep added to Barcelona If a coach can consistently reach 7 straight CL semi, how many coaches reach that all their career. From semi onwards you need a lot of luck because all teams are equally matched Pep has played 5 semi matches with Bayern, the only result that is odd is losing 0-4 to madrid Other results Are not unusual given the circumstances of both teams at the time of the match With the array of talents at Barcelona they didnt win any treble before he got there, they were trophyless before he got there, they finished 18points behind the league winner before he got there he brought in a brand of football that awed everyone, the brand of football that won several CL, Euro cups and world cup Thats what Pep has contributed to football. In the last 20yrs no other coach has had that impact on the game Bayern faced Peps team in 2009, After the match Our executives said, I would wish to build a team that plays like this in Munich City started a project and their objective was to play like Barcelona, they got Txiki and Soriano but are not satisfied they want the man behind it Pep Roman bought Chelsea and despite the wins he clearly said he wanted to win a certain way No coach has influenced the way football is played in the past 20yrs like Pep has done, There is a reason many team directors want to play like he does because he not only wins, he dominates and win with swagga. How many big teams would you see that would say I want to win by parking the bus or playing the Mourinho way, Its sweet when you are an underdog and suckerpunch a bigger team that way but when you spend money you want to win in a good way Two students get A, One gets 100-A one gets 71-A, though both got A's but there is a difference with the person who got 100-A. if you send your kid to school and spend good money on him you would want him to get 100-a rather than 71-A 8 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Eruditor: 7:36pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: This is a brilliant post. Really. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 7:40pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Mourinho won 2 CL as an underdog but when he was placed in the position of a top dog what happened? He couldnt win. Not even once despite Chelsea in his first reign having almost the money monopoly all over Europe. Pep is a genius because of the innovation he brings to the game. He always seek to create, He always devise new means to create, stretch tactics to their limit just to create chances. While some would come to the game just to destroy I dont mind you bunkering if you have inferior resources that was why I lauded his Porto win but when you are the top dog, you cant deploy a siege mentality anymore you have to create Despite Bayern dominance in Germany this has been their most dominant era in history and our local competitors cant wait to have Pep leave to at least have a chance at the league Compared to all coaches currently he is a genius and especially compared to Mourinho he is a super genius 6 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 7:50pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Raumdeuter, as you well know, Pep got rid of most of the Barca 'superstars' and instead focused on la masia graduates. La Masia graduates who happened to be: 1. Already schooled in a philosophy that Pep did not invent(or arguably even finetune) 2. The majority of these players are/were the best in the world at their positions, with one of them a candidate for GOAT. So an argument could be made that Pep was merely a passenger,overseeing world class players in a philosophy and tactical framework that they had spent their entire careers learning... We saw Donkey Enrique replicate Pep's success at first attempt, and I doubt that anyone will rush to crown Luis a tactical genius. So what I'm saying to you is that Pep has only ever won when he had the better team. He achieved global domination with a Barca team that was the best on the planet. He achieved domestic dominance with a Bayern team that is the best in the league. At Barca, he never really faced superior opposition. With Bayern he is facing commensurate or superior opposition. At Barca he triumphed, at Bayern he is thus far a relative failure. Compare and contrast with Jose winning with relatively underdogs, and tell me what Pep has really done... 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by pelvicky(m): 7:54pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
[quote author=Nihilist post=45161413]But what has Pep really done sef? pep built the best team in history and a man with two champion league medal Like we've seen after he left, any donkey off the street can replicate his success at Barcelona. like how many treble did Tito Vilanova and Martino,Gerardo won The tiki-taka philosophy is instilled from an early age at la-masia, and most of the members of that team are la-masia including pep himself... This was Guardiola's first job in senior management; had he not been anything other than an extraodinary coach and a great motivator, would these very players - talented, iconic and stubborn, as Pep's detractors acknowledge - have respected him and responded to his ideas? Ideas which were, are and continue to be, extremely demanding? He would not have lasted a season had he been the chancer that some are suggesting, much less gone on to mould what is probably the best football team in history, one that set tactical trends that countless top clubs now follow. He took a very good club in favourable - but far from ideal - conditions and made them almost perfect. In his first ever job. And worked relentlessly to sustain that near-perfection until he could give no more. Had the likes of Xavi and Inesta - who were not at the heart of Spain's best ever national team in 2008, lest we forget - not been endebted to Guardiola's guidance, they would not have been sat in the front row of his press conference when he announced his decision to leave. Nor would Messi, by then the best player in the world by some distance. At Bayern, Pep once again has access to the best players in the world, but is competing in a one horse league. Can we genuinely expect anything less than domestic clean sweeps from Bayern with that squad? especially with their tendencies to cannibalise their closest competitionAnd then he chose Bayern Munich, the German powerhouse and treble winners. But let's row back a little. When Pep sat down with Bayern officials to discuss ending his sabbatical and taking up residence in Bavaria, Borussia Dortmund had won the previous two titles. Admittedly, Jupp Heynckes' men were romping away with the league that winter, but the Bundesliga was not the closed shop that it is now. And why is it a closed shop now? Because Guardiola's Bayern have been merciless. He did not choose Bayern because of their absolute dominance, they are absolutely dominant because he chose Bayern. Why does pep keep failing in Europe when he faces competition that is either at par or slightly superior to his squad?He seems to be the only coach in football history who needs to win a third Champions League before people are willing to accept his ability. Only one coach still working in football has won three - Carlo Ancelotti. Guardiola, with two, has won as many as Jose Mourinho, in a shorter space of time and without leaving a trail of destruction behind him Is Pep really that much of a genius at all?pep will always be a genius Compare to Jose who has won UCL TWICE in thr capacity of an underdog. pep : 3 years , 2 UCL mou :14 years , 2 UCL 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by pelvicky(m): 7:58pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
lifted from an article |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 8:15pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Pelvicky let's not slow down this debate. Everything you posted there has already been addressed in my post. Villanova won the league at first attempt in his very first managerial stint. He won it from the sick bay too. Messi went to bring a coach from his old club in Argentina. In his first managerial stint in Europe, Tata still managed to with a Spanish cup and only lost tesco league on the last day of the season. Then Donkey Enrique showed up and won was it the sextuple athe first attempt? 4 managers came and went, while the team stayed largely constant. Are we to conclude that Barca has now had 4 back to back tactical geniuses that are able to win stuff at first attempt, despite a lack of precedent elsewhere in their careers? Are we to believe that these managers are somehow unlucky, in the way that not a single one of them has been able to replicate their success elsewhere? Or could it be, that that Barca team is so good that a manager is superfluous? |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 8:18pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Wetin be all this VMAs wey Nihilist and A40 dey talk? Abeg make una no cause confusion here o To the argument, Pep is a very good coach but his achievements have led to him being vastly overrated . If you give Alex Ferguson or Ottmar Hitzfeld or the young Arrigo Sacchi that Barca team (with Messi,Xavi,Iniesta and Busquets all together and all at their peaks supported at different times by Zlatan,Henry,Ronaldinho and Etoo) those other coaches would have done the same or even more. Just my personal opinion 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 8:20pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: Forget those names you mentioned there. Those names are too big sef. They gave the team to Donkey Enrique,and he achieved the same at first attempt! 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 8:27pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Getting rid of superstars(Ronaldino, Deco) and hoping on untested players(Pique, Busquets) or players that have been written off(Xavi) is a very risky venture. Its like City having a poor season they hire their youth team coach who comes gets rid of Yaya Toure, Aguero and Kompany Promotes Adarabioyo and Faupala and Iheanacho change their brand of football entirely and win sextuple by December 2017. Would you say that youth manager was a passenger in the City win? These same players you said Pep inherited were there when the team was finishing trophyless and 18points behind league leaders After Pep, Barcelona has crashed out of the quarter finals twice which they never did in Pep 4 years At barcelona he didnt get a better team, he made them better, He made Xavi better, he made Iniesta better, he made messi better he made Busquets better he made pedro better, Without him all of them probably would never reach the level they are Messi would probably be an unfilfilled 13goals a season winger, Xavi would have been sold and probably retired earlier, etc At the beginning of 2008/2009 season would you say emphatically that barca would win the La liga? So how do you mean he never faced superior opposition? Winning with underdogs is one thing, winning as a top dog is another thing. Mourinho has tasted both sides and he was sacked from the two clubs where he was top dog |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 8:32pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: Nihilist: I disagree. None of them would play Messi a 5ft8 tall winger, centrally where you would get the best out of him, None of them would play to dominate play with 75% possesion Busquets would probably have been overlooked by most of those managers since he isnt the typical DM football is used to, Xavi would be too slow and to small to play football in midfield according to many coaches Peps Barcelona is being regarded as one of the greatest teams of all time, Maybe only Sacchi ACMilan among those you mentioned would lay claims to such . I mean win and be dominant like Barcelona was |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 8:32pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: You have made good points. Especially about his vision in shifting Messi inside and getting rid of Etoo on the second attempt. He is definitely a good coach like I conceded but we have to also concede that he was dealt a great hand by destiny with quality players he had at his disposal. 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 8:34pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: This current Barcelona is better in talent than Peps Barcelona yet they dont achieeve what Pep's barcelona did., Pep made quarter finals every single time in 4 yrs The only times Barcelona failed to make a semi was when Pep was out |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 8:39pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: How many coaches have destiny inadvertently given talents and they have mismanaged? before Pep, Xavi was surely on his way out, Busquets might never have been found, Messi would be a 14 goal a season winger which would still be good but he might not have been a GOAT He is more than a good coach, He is a great coach, he is a coaching genius. Like all geniuses they have their fault but I would say no coach has impacted football the way he did in the past 2 decades |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by pelvicky(m): 8:40pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raum has said it all.....shikena |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 8:41pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Its only risky to non-insiders. Messi was already voted the 2nd best player in the world at 2007. Pep didn't take over till 2008. So what's the risk of pushing a a former young world best player of the year, and golden boy into three middle? Messi is playing on the right these days to accommodate Suarez and still banging double digits goals and assists Can you honestly say that Messi would flop in any attacking position on the pitch? Unless you want to give Pep credit for Messi's prodigious talent. Pep was lucky to be at Barca at a time when a particularly deadly crop of players had come out. That's why everybody doubts pep, because his UCLs have been won with Barca, which as we have seen is an easily replicable feat for any manager. So what has he really done? |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 8:42pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Having a team regarded as one of the greatest of all time does not automatically mean the manager to is on the list of greatest. I mean who were the managers of the great Real team that won 5 straight European cups, who managed the great Bayern side of the 70s etc. I am not saying Pep is not good/great but great team does not equate to great coach......it is mainly about the players Even the great Arrigo Sacchi found failure everywhere in club football after his Milan stint cos he never again worked with players of the quality of Baresi, Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkaard. IT IS EASIER FOR A MANAGER TO APPEAR GREAT WHEN HE IS COACHING GREAT PLAYERS 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 8:43pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Messi was not a '14 goal winger' before pep. He was the 2nd best player in the world. 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 8:50pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Messi was a talent, It was Pep who pushed him to the limit where he is now. There is a huge difference between Messi scoring double digit goals and assists and the Messi scoring over 60goals a season under Pep. a 5ft7 player Only Mourinho fanboys doubt Pep. If people doubt Pep, City wont suspend their coach to get him, Bayern wont go out of their way to get him and offer him extensions. If people doubt him, he wont be the most sought after coach on the planet Pep's future was uncertain and every managers job immediately became at risk. Wenger had to speak up that him declaring himself available made everyone panic because he is that good After Pep Barca has gotten 3 of the best 5 strikers in the world and have a trio that can be tagged the best in history yet they are out of the CL, tied on points with 3 games to go but if Pep had handled them and they are almost in the CL final and coasting to the league you would say anyone can do it 2 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 8:54pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Another thing I want to state here. I have been telling my friends for months now that this Barca team is inferior to Pep's Barca team. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 8:58pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: I agree 110% 2 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 8:59pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Tha was because a 15 goal a season winger was rare before then Messi before Pep 07/08 16 goals 17 assist 06/07 17 goals 4 assists 05/06 8 goals 6 assists 04/05 1 goal Total 42 goals 27 assists ================= Messi with Pep 08/09 38 goals 17 assists 09/10 47 goals 14 assists 10/11 53 goals 28 assists 11/12 73 goals 35 assists TOTAL 211 goals 94 assists ====================================================== Messi after Pep 12/13 60 goals 18 assists 13/14 41 goals 16 assists 14/15 58 goals 31 assists 15/16 40 goals 21 assists Total 199 goals 86 assists |
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