Do all Jehovah's Witnesses believe that after a hundred years and 8 million followers, God is still unable to find 144,000 to seal in heaven before "the end"?

Mark Jones, Ex-Jehovah's Witness of 31 years
Answered Apr 17, 2019

Not just 100 years, but since Jesus was on the earth.


We do know that the anointing of Jesus’ disciples with a view to their heavenly inheritance began in 33 C.E. - Watchtower May 1, 2007, Questions From Readers

This means that for 1,986 years only 144,000 people professing to be Christians actually were anointed and destined for heaven.

And the number still isn't reached.


But there’s a reason why they believe this. At one time “god” told Charles Taze Russell that the heavenly calling had been closed in 1881:

As in the type that date - three and a half years after the death of Christ - marked the end of all special favor to the Jew and the beginning of favor to the Gentiles, so we recognize A.D. 1881 as marking the close of the high calling, or invitation to the blessing peculiar to this age - to become joint-heirs with Christ and partakers of the divine nature. - Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand 1915 ed. p.235

Years later, their then leader Joseph Rutherford claimed that the heavenly called had been closed in 1921:

Our proposition is that the glorification of the Little Flock in the Spring of 1918 A.D. will be halfway between the close of the Gentile Times and the close of the heavenly way, A.D. 1921. - Studies In the Scriptures - The Finished Mystery p.64


Then 1931:

The facts in harmony with and therefore in fulfillment of the prophetic parable show that in 1931, ... all who had the love of Christ delighted to know that the last ones coming into the service were to share this honor equally with those who had been long in the service. The anointed who continue to maintain their integrity toward God will share this honor, and no others could have it. - Watchtower 1931 Dec 1 pp.356,357

What facts? He didn't go into detail, it was just “totally true” because god had told him in a dream.

Counting the hour for a year, as shown by the facts foregoing, and which is supported by the Scriptures, the “even” or close the twelfth hour (Matt. 20:, the period of time mentioned in the parable, came to a close with the year A.D. 1931. - Watchtower 1931 Nov 15 p.343

Then it turns out that god had made a mistake and it was actually 1935:
Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general g[b]athering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935[/b]. - Watchtower 1995 Feb 15 p.19[/I]
This calls to mind a certain scripture:

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. - Matthew 23:13

And yet now, their governing body claims to have actually checked the bible:
[i]When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease? The Bible does not reveal a precise answer to that question. - Watchtower 2007 May 1 pp.30,31

Which reminds me of another scripture:

Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. - Psalm 146:3

The number of memorial partakers were supposed to decrease, thus showing how “close we are to the end” but then when the numbers started going up and more people were claiming to be anointed then the governing body had to think of something. So they claimed:
Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. They asked for God's merciful understanding. - Watchtower 1996 Aug 15 p.31


Discussion of the increasing number of Jehovah's Witnesses that partake at the memorial.

If you were to ask a Jehovah’s Witness today why the numbers are going up they’d tell you that some people were “evidently” partaking when they were not really anointed, or they lost their appointment due to some sort of sin.

But we’re expected to believe that the governing body definitely aren’t mistaken like everyone else.

Footnotes
[1] Questions From Readers - Watchtower ONLINE Library (https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007327)

You dey worry JW

Anas09:
You dey worry JW

Not really. Trying to help them know their history from their own books which their religion will never present because of embarrassment. From their history, it will help them see that what they believe and teach as 'truth' today, (in the process insulting other that don't believe or teach such 'truth') is because of the unique way their religion present it and calls it so, not because it is and will change in day 20 to 30 years time, which they will also call truth.

In simple terms, their truth is only truth because their religion says it is.

rottennaija:


Not really. Trying to help them know their history from their own books which their religion will never present because of embarrassment. From their history, it will help them see that what they believe and teach as 'truth' today, (in the process insulting other that don't believe or teach such 'truth') is because of the unique way their religion present it and calls it so, not because it is and will change in day 20 to 30 years time, which they will also call truth.

In simple terms, their truth is only truth because their religion says it is.

@Revelations 22:20 Jesus who spent 33 years of his earthly life with his Apostoles said to John (one of his Apostles who at the time of writing the Bible book of Revelation is about 98 years old)
"Yes, i'm coming quickly!" and John enthusiastically respond "come Lord Jesus!"
The promise Jesus made for this man along with the other 11 some 65 years back was still fresh and resounding in the mind of this faithful Apostle despite the fact that all his other colleagues have been executed brutally by the first century critics!
Today makes almost two thousand years that promise was made, Jesus had not come just as he promised and many RIDICULERS like atheists and others are mocking those who are still keeping that faith today.

@ 2Peter 3:3

Peter foretold what RIDICULERS will be telling true Christians!
Please prove to me now with this post of yours that you're NOT one of the foretold ridiculers, because Jehovah's Witnesses will never relent nor surrender,we will continue to proclaim the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ until he comes! 1Corinthians 11:26

TATIME:


@Revelations 22:20 Jesus who spent 33 years of his earthly life with his Apostoles said to John (one of his Apostles who at the time of writing the Bible book of Revelation is about 98 years old)
"Yes, i'm coming quickly!" and John enthusiastically respond "come Lord Jesus!"
The promise Jesus made for this man along with the other 11 some 65 years back was still fresh and resounding in the mind of this faithful Apostle despite the fact that all his other colleagues have been executed brutally by the first century critics!
Today makes almost two thousand years that promise was made, Jesus had not come just as he promised and many RIDICULERS like atheists and others are mocking those who are still keeping that faith today.

@ 2Peter 3:3

Peter foretold what RIDICULERS will be telling true Christians!
Please prove to me now with this post of yours that you're NOT one of the foretold ridiculers, because Jehovah's Witnesses will never relent nor surrender,we will continue to proclaim the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ until he comes! 1Corinthians 11:26

Keeping the faith is one thing, expecting the Lord's return is one thing, prophesying when you have not been commanded to is quite another. Which is what the JWs are still doing.

Take a look at this overlapping generation prophecies the governing body are making Witnesses believe. It's no different from their prophecies of 1914, 1925,1975. Where Jehovah had not given you a prophecy and you tell that in his name, he doesn't bless such false prophecies. So far, history has proven Jehovah's Witnesses to be a false prophet.

One would expect that someone who has such a bad history would be discreet, cautious in his next pronouncement. Yet, the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not want to learn, (probably because no one is holding them accountable) rather they keep speaking when Jehovah or Jesus has not commanded.

You know what?

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 shows a test of a false prophets saying

"But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'
You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the Lord or not?'
If the prophet predicts something in the Lord's name and it does not happen, the Lord did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.

This is why the overlapping generation prophecy of the governing body will fail. This is why their prophecies has been failing and will continue to fail. They do not have God's backing in anything.

rottennaija:


Keeping the faith is one thing, expecting the Lord's return is one thing, prophesying when you have not been commanded to is quite another. Which is what the JWs are still doing.

Take a look at this overlapping generation prophecies the governing body are making Witnesses believe. It's no different from their prophecies of 1914, 1925,1975. Where Jehovah had not given you a prophecy and you tell that in his name, he doesn't bless such false prophecies. So far, history has proven Jehovah's Witnesses to be a false prophet.

One would expect that someone who has such a bad history would be discreet, cautious in his next pronouncement. Yet, the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not want to learn, (probably because no one is holding them accountable) rather they keep speaking when Jehovah or Jesus has not commanded.

You know what?

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 shows a test of a false prophets saying

"But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'
You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the Lord or not?'
If the prophet predicts something in the Lord's name and it does not happen, the Lord did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.

This is why the overlapping generation prophecy of the governing body will fail. This is why their prophecies has been failing and will continue to fail. They do not have God's backing in anything.

Most people are confused about prophesying and keeping to the faith for sure, but it's only those with faith that keeps expecting what God promised today, tomorrow and day after tomorrow. They will never give up!
Think of all you've presented so far, it's all about how they were disappointed regarding their expectations. But their number kept growing and they're the highest mountain that's seen globally regarding oneness in faith!
Deuteronomy talks about false prophets proclaiming what God did not tell them. But that's not the case with those who keeps mimicking what has been WRITTEN in the Bible as something that will surely come!
Going by your analogy, John the baptist and Jesus must also be false prophets because they taught their contemporaries that God's kingdom is at hand. This is what has been said from the times of Adam down through history that God will undo the damage caused by the event in Eden. Today is almost two thousand years later and God's Kingdom which both John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth preached, taught people and both died for hasn't come.
So if you're now pointing accusing fingers to a modern day group of worshipers still expecting this same promise year after year, ARE YOU NOT ONE OF THOSE RIDICULERS? 2Peter 3:3

TATIME:


Most people are confused about prophesying and keeping to the faith for sure, but it's only those with faith that keeps expecting what God promised today, tomorrow and day after tomorrow. They will never give up!
Think of all you've presented so far, it's all about how they were disappointed regarding their expectations. But their number kept growing and they're the highest mountain that's seen globally regarding oneness in faith!
Deuteronomy talks about false prophets proclaiming what God did not tell them. But that's not the case with those who keeps mimicking what has been WRITTEN in the Bible as something that will surely come!
Going by your analogy, John the baptist and Jesus must also be false prophets because they taught their contemporaries that God's kingdom is at hand. This is what has been said from the times of Adam down through history that God will undo the damage caused by the event in Eden. Today is almost two thousand years later and God's Kingdom which both John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth preached, taught people and both died for hasn't come.
So if you're now pointing accusing fingers to a modern day group of worshipers still expecting this same promise year after year, ARE YOU NOT ONE OF THOSE RIDICULERS? 2Peter 3:3

Did your religion not prophesy falsehood?
Is oneness of faith a determine factor of a true Christian or religion?
Is Jws the highest mountain globally in oneness of faith?
Do other Christian religion have faith in what is written in the Bible to surely come?
Is fixing a time when heavenly calling is ending not falsehood?

rottennaija:


Not really. Trying to help them know their history from their own books which their religion will never present because of embarrassment. From their history, it will help them see that what they believe and teach as 'truth' today, (in the process insulting other that don't believe or teach such 'truth') is because of the unique way their religion present it and calls it so, not because it is and will change in day 20 to 30 years time, which they will also call truth.

In simple terms, their truth is only truth because their religion says it is.

Yes, I agree. What ever someone calls a thing, it becomes

rottennaija:


(1)Did your religion not prophesy falsehood?

(2)Is oneness of faith a determine factor of a true
Christian or religion?

(3)Is Jws the highest mountain globally in oneness of faith?

(4)Do other Christian religion have faith in what is written in the Bible to surely come?

(5)Is fixing a time when heavenly calling is ending not falsehood?

(1)NO! Except if you agree that both John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth were also false prophets, because they both preached saying "God's kingdom is at hand" since two thousand years ago and it has not yet come!

(2)YES! Both Jesus and Apostle Paul said so! John 13:34,35, 17:20-23, Romans 15:5,6, 1Corinthians 1:10, 2Corinthians 13:11, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2

(3)YES! Mountain could be seen by everyone that's why Jesus told his followers that a city built on the hilltop cannot be hidden! Matthew 5:14-16 Why not point to another group globally recognised for their uniqueness in faith and practices? Isaiah prophesied that in the last days (our time) God's mountain( pure worship) will be lifted above all other mountains (false religions) and people from divers countries will become one happy global family and there will be NO soldier (those learning wars) in their midst! Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:3-4
Please ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses fits in perfectly to this description!
(4)NO! Because the only sign to know if you have faith in the Holy scriptures is the outcome of your gathering, God's holy spirit will yield positive fruits that all peoples can SEE! Matthew 7:15-20, James 2:18-26 If people just gather claiming Christians but their gathering is not yielding what's beneficial for everyone to see, then certainly they don't truthfully believe the scriptures!
(5)NO! Because Jesus first century followers did the same several times since their minds were FIXED on the TIMING, Jesus never condemned them for that instead he encouraged them to continue working hard in preaching and teaching till that time comes! Matthew 24:3, Act 1:6-8
If the minds of the first century Christians were FIXED on the TIMING and you're now seeing the one and only group ACTIVELY preaching and teaching throughout the earth, discouraging their youths from pursuing materialistic goals and careers and having the same feelings, what other sign do you need to know that they must be the same as those of the first century?

TATIME:


(1)NO! Except if you agree that both John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth were also false prophets, because they both preached saying "God's kingdom is at hand" since two thousand years ago and it has not yet come!

(2)YES! Both Jesus and Apostle Paul said so! John 13:34,35, 17:20-23, Romans 15:5,6, 1Corinthians 1:10, 2Corinthians 13:11, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2

(3)YES! Mountain could be seen by everyone that's why Jesus told his followers that a city built on the hilltop cannot be hidden! Matthew 5:14-16 Why not point to another group globally recognised for their uniqueness in faith and practices? Isaiah prophesied that in the last days (our time) God's mountain( pure worship) will be lifted above all other mountains (false religions) and people from divers countries will become one happy global family and there will be NO soldier (those learning wars) in their midst! Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:3-4
Please ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses fits in perfectly to this description!
(4)NO! Because the only sign to know if you have faith in the Holy scriptures is the outcome of your gathering, God's holy spirit will yield positive fruits that all peoples can SEE! Matthew 7:15-20, James 2:18-26 If people just gather claiming Christians but their gathering is not yielding what's beneficial for everyone to see, then certainly they don't truthfully believe the scriptures!
(5)NO! Because Jesus first century followers did the same several times since their minds were FIXED on the TIMING, Jesus never condemned them for that instead he encouraged them to continue working hard in preaching and teaching till that time comes! Matthew 24:3, Act 1:6-8
If the minds of the first century Christians were FIXED on the TIMING and you're now seeing the one and only group ACTIVELY preaching and teaching throughout the earth, discouraging their youths from pursuing materialistic goals and careers and having the same feelings, what other sign do you need to know that they must be the same as those of the first century?

1. Is the teaching that all true Christians will be in heaven false or true?
2. Is the believe that the faith and discreet slave the leading ones (now the governing body) scriptural and true?
3. Is the believe that this generation Jesus spoke of that will not pass away the members of the governing body a false believe?

rottennaija:


1. Is the teaching that all true Christians will be in heaven false or true?
2. Is the believe that the faith and discreet slave the leading ones (now the governing body) scriptural and true?
3. Is the believe that this generation Jesus spoke of that will not pass away the members of the governing body a false believe?

Your questions are emanating from the perspectives of the Christendom Churches so there will always be sharp contrasts with that of Jehovah's Witnesses whose beliefs are totally different! Both sides will point to the Bible as, the source of their beliefs, so how will you know which one is the truth?

All you need to do now is just choose whether to remain with the popular teachings that's common everywhere or a unique one that's held by just one single group!
I for my part prefer examining everything thoroughly before deciding on what to do, i strongly believe faith should work out what is fine in the midst of adherents not just worshipping for the sake of acceptance by everyone, i don't follow the crowd!

TATIME:


@Revelations 22:20 Jesus who spent 33 years of his earthly life with his Apostoles said to John (one of his Apostles who at the time of writing the Bible book of Revelation is about 98 years old)
"Yes, i'm coming quickly!" and John enthusiastically respond "come Lord Jesus!"
The promise Jesus made for this man along with the other 11 some 65 years back was still fresh and resounding in the mind of this faithful Apostle despite the fact that all his other colleagues have been executed brutally by the first century critics!
Today makes almost two thousand years that promise was made, Jesus had not come just as he promised and many RIDICULERS like atheists and others are mocking those who are still keeping that faith today.



@ 2Peter 3:3

Peter foretold what RIDICULERS will be telling true Christians!
Please prove to me now with this post of yours that you're NOT one of the foretold ridiculers, because Jehovah's Witnesses will never relent nor surrender,we will continue to proclaim the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ until he comes! 1Corinthians 11:26

I don't think rottennaija has said people should stop waiting for the lord's return. What he has posted up there didn't say such. Your use of 2 Peter 3:3 is a good way to deflect into something else by bringing RIDICULE into it.

Then this..........

TATIME: because Jehovah's Witnesses will never relent nor surrender,we will continue to proclaim the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ until he comes! 1Corinthians 11:26

Achorladey: As long as you know JWs are not the only one proclaiming christ return and considering "christ return" based on your doctrine, that is another kettle of fish after all......... Christ returned INVISIBLY in 1914 and "HERALD THE PRESENCE of CHRIST" SAGA.

Others proclaiming christ return, you dont see them or hear as they do as you describe THEM SHOUTING up and THEM doing so with fixing date or peddling dates or called those FIXED DATES as "ESTABLISHED TRUTH" or GODS OWN DATE bla bla bla.

TATIME:


Your questions are emanating from the perspectives of the Christendom Churches so there will always be sharp contrasts with that of Jehovah's Witnesses whose beliefs are totally different! Both sides will point to the Bible as, the source of their beliefs, so how will you know which one is the truth?

All you need to do now is just choose whether to remain with the popular teachings that's common everywhere or a unique one that's held by just one single group!
I for my part prefer examining everything thoroughly before deciding on what to do, i strongly believe faith should work out what is fine in the midst of adherents not just worshipping for the sake of acceptance by everyone, i don't follow the crowd!

TATIME: I for my part prefer examining everything thoroughly before deciding on what to do, i strongly BELIEVE FAITH SHOULD WORK out WHAT is FINE in the MIDST of ADHERENTS not just worshipping for the sake of acceptance by everyone, i don't follow the crowd!

Achorladey: When one write this way, the bias leaning is scattered all over it.

You should agree that faith has worked out what is fine in the LIVES of the founding fathers of this organization you are a member of. They enjoyed THAT FINE THING long BEFORE the founding fathers even DREAMT of estabshing this ORGANIZATION.

That fine THING is still being enjoyed by JWS all over the world from other Christian DENOMINATIONS, directly or indirectly after all they support the organization WORLDWIDE WORK. Abi no be so?

It does not matter if you are 8 million out of 8 billion or 2000 out of 2 million as long as you remember you are PART of the "GREAT CROWD" of OTHER SHEEP. Then you are still following a CROWD. I hope you catch the DRIFT HERE.

This your I don't follow THE CROWD get as e be ooooo

achorladey:


I don't think rottennaija has said people should stop waiting for the lord's return. What he has posted up there didn't say such. Your use of 2 Peter 3:3 is a good way to deflect into something else by bringing RIDICULE into it.

Then this..........

TATIME: because Jehovah's Witnesses will never relent nor surrender,we will continue to proclaim the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ until he comes! 1Corinthians 11:26

Achorladey: As long as you know JWs are not the only one proclaiming christ return and considering "christ return" based on your doctrine, that is another kettle of fish after all......... Christ returned INVISIBLY in 1914 and "HERALD THE PRESENCE of CHRIST" SAGA.

Others proclaiming christ return, you dont see them or hear as they do as you describe THEM SHOUTING up and THEM doing so with fixing date or peddling or called those FIXED DATES as "ESTABLISHED TRUTH" or GODS OWN DATE bla bla bla.

Millions across the globe have taken their stand for it, all you need to do is choose!

Everybody you're seeing around have brains to think so present whatever you've got and allow them to use their brains, you can't force anyone to leave the group they've chosen as the truth!

As for the fixing of dates, i don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are choosing any date for you so you shouldn't have any problem with their beliefs! They don't announce what they believe on TV, radio or newspapers so it's within them that their fix~dating begins and ends.

It's unquestionably stupid and highly hypocritical when you've concluded that all the teachings of a group is based on fallacies yet you're still reckoning with what they've got to say, whereas they're not forcing you in any way to accept their teachings!

achorladey:



TATIME: I for my part prefer examining everything thoroughly before deciding on what to do, i strongly BELIEVE FAITH SHOULD WORK out WHAT is FINE in the MIDST of ADHERENTS not just worshipping for the sake of acceptance by everyone, i don't follow the crowd!

Achorladey: When one write this way, the bias leaning is scattered all over it.

You should agree that faith has worked out what is fine in the LIVES of the founding fathers of this organization you are a member of. They enjoyed THAT FINE THING long BEFORE the founding fathers even DREAMT of estabshing this ORGANIZATION.

That fine THING is still being enjoyed by JWS all over the world from other Christian DENOMINATIONS, directly or indirectly after all they support the organization WORLDWIDE WORK. Abi no be so?

It does not matter if you are 8 million out of 8 billion or 2000 out of 2 million as long as you remember you are PART of the "GREAT CROWD" of OTHER SHEEP. Then you are still following a CROWD. I hope you catch the DRIFT HERE.

This your I don't follow THE CROWD get as e be ooooo

The crowd in question is taken from the Bible book of Exodus 23:2! Most people follow whatever the majority around them believe or accepts.

Of course the Bible talks of the great crowd that will survive the destruction of Satan's world. But this ones always feel minute within those who don't share their beliefs! 1John 5:19
When you get to any gathering of people and talk about the general believe of the majority, before you can notice any difference you will have gotten almost 70% similarities in their beliefs!
But it's obvious that a Jehovah's Witness in such a gathering will remain totally different from the CROWD due to the unique teaching of his/her own group, until he is in the midst of those with whom he shared the same beliefs!
That's what i meant by saying "i don't follow the crowd"

TATIME:


Millions across the globe have taken their stand for it, all you need to do is choose!

Everybody you're seeing around have brains to think so present whatever you've got and allow them to use their brains, you can't force anyone to leave the group they've chosen as the truth!

As for the fixing of dates, i don't think Jehovah's Witnesses are choosing any date for you so you shouldn't have any problem with their beliefs! They don't announce what they believe on TV, radio or newspapers so it's within them that their fix~dating begins and ends.

It's unquenchably stupid and highly hypocritical when you've concluded that all the teachings of a group is based on fallacies yet you're still reckoning with what they've got to say, whereas they're not forcing you in any way to accept their teachings!

TATIME: you're still reckoning

TATIME: Everybody you're seeing around have brains to think so present whatever you've got and allow them to use their brains, you can't force anyone to leave the group they've chosen as the truth!

Achorladey: Is that not RECKONING? Allow everyone to reckon what ever they want without using remarks such as "UNQUENCHABLLY STUPID" and "HIGHLY HYPOCRITICAL"

With those remarks you don't want them to RECKON.

TATIME: They don't announce what they believe on TV, radio or newspapers so it's within them that their fix~dating begins and ends.

Achorladey: If I HEAR EHN!

TATIME:


The crowd in question is taken from the Bible book of Exodus 23:2! Most people follow whatever the majority around them believe or accepts.

Of course the Bible talks of the great crowd that will survive the destruction of Satan's world. But this ones always feel minute within those who don't share their beliefs! 1John 5:19
When you get to any gathering of people and talk about the general believe of the majority, before you can notice any difference you will have gotten almost 70% similarities in their beliefs!
But it's obvious that a Jehovah's Witness in such a gathering will remain totally different from the CROWD due to the unique teaching of his/her own group, until he is in the midst of those with whom he shared the same beliefs!
That's what i meant by saying "i don't follow the crowd"

Cut long story short, TATIME, are you PART of the GREAT CROWD of OTHER SHEEP? Do you FOLLOW THIS GREAT CROWD OF OTHER SHEEP?

You are trying to COMPARE and CONTRAST CROWD AGAIN!

TATIME:


Your questions are emanating from the perspectives of the Christendom Churches so there will always be sharp contrasts with that of Jehovah's Witnesses whose beliefs are totally different! Both sides will point to the Bible as, the source of their beliefs, so how will you know which one is the truth?

All you need to do now is just choose whether to remain with the popular teachings that's common everywhere or a unique one that's held by just one single group!

I for my part prefer examining everything thoroughly before deciding on what to do, i strongly believe faith should work out what is fine in the midst of adherents not just worshipping for the sake of acceptance by everyone, i don't follow the crowd!

I like your response. You know why? Though I expected your answer, it seems evidence that there is a cognitive dissonance in your mind. So, instead of responding which will prove your group wrong, you prefer to take a dive.

This video below details the conflict you experience


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

You can download using this link

https://www.ssyoutube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

At the same time, it's interesting because it indicates you notice something about your group. As for examining things thoroughly, I encourage you not to pay lip service to it.

Cheers.

By the way, what's the meaning of christendom? Have you ever thought about it?

achorladey:


Cut long story short, TATIME, are you PART of the GREAT CROWD of OTHER SHEEP? Do you FOLLOW THIS GREAT CROWD OF OTHER SHEEP?

You are trying to COMPARE and CONTRAST CROWD AGAIN!

Do you agree that true Christians amidst a religiously, racially and politically divided world can unitedly form a happy global family of peace-loving worshippers while still living in different countries around the world?

Well Jehovah's Witnesses have formed such a spiritual family, even though we're not living close neither seeing one another physically, we've formed a great crowd of like minded worshipers just as Jesus prayed for! John 17:20-23
That's why i keep asking OP to point to another performing group that's fulfilling this dearly needed attribute in this time of the end.
It's obvious that the envy in the heart of Cain is still very much in the minds of most religionists today, otherwise i don't think normal worshippers experiencing divine approval will be preoccupied with what another group is teaching her members. Genesis 4:6,7
What should be paramount in the heart of all true worshipers is how to make your worship like the light shine brightly so that other religious groups can SEE! Matthew 5:14-16

TATIME:


Your questions are emanating from the perspectives of the Christendom Churches so there will always be sharp contrasts with that of Jehovah's Witnesses whose beliefs are totally different! Both sides will point to the Bible as, the source of their beliefs, so how will you know which one is the truth?

All you need to do now is just choose whether to remain with the popular teachings that's common everywhere or a unique one that's held by just one single group!
I for my part prefer examining everything thoroughly before deciding on what to do, i strongly believe faith should work out what is fine in the midst of adherents not just worshipping for the sake of acceptance by everyone, i don't follow the crowd!

Actually, I am asking you to tell me the truth. Which ones are true and which ones are false?

rottennaija:


1. Is the teaching that all true Christians will be in heaven false or true?
2. Is the believe that the faith and discreet slave the leading ones (now the governing body) scriptural and true?
3. Is the believe that this generation Jesus spoke of that will not pass away the members of the governing body a false believe?

rottennaija:


I like your response. You know why? Though I expected your answer, it seems evidence that there is a cognitive dissonance in your mind. So, instead of responding which will prove your group wrong, you prefer to take a dive.

This video below details the conflict you experience


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

You can download using this link

https://www.ssyoutube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY

At the same time, it's interesting because it indicates you notice something about your group. As for examining things thoroughly, I encourage you not to pay lip service to it.

Cheers.

By the way, what's the meaning of christendom? Have you ever thought about it?

I've done my research thoroughly before abandoning Islam for the one and only true Christian group. Whatever you've got against them remains what your own personal research reveals to you.
My question is "point to another performing group that's better than the Jehovah's Witnesses" so that i can compare and contrast, period!
No matter what you've got to say about them to me is just like envying them because it's crystal clear that you've not found anything better. If you do you'll have easily prepented to the group for everyone to SEE!

Mind you, Jesus came to organize SINFUL humans for salvation and it's impossible for such organisation of imperfect humans to make no mistakes, as long as they're willing to make amendments and move ahead to maturity they're the one and only Christian group there is!

rottennaija:


Actually, I am asking you to tell me the truth. Which ones are true and which ones are false?

You've been ignoring my demand since and i've been patiently waiting all along, believing that you're sincere and honesthearted!
So why not just present a better performing group than the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and leave the rest to me? You can't become master over my faith neither can you make decisions for me, all you can do is present what you've got so that i thoroughly examine it to draw my own personal conclusion.
Trust comes in after ascertaining that a stranger is sincere and honesthearted! John 4:42, Act 17:11
I will stand by my conviction not for what you think is right! 2Corinthians 1:24
So please my friend, present a better performing group than Jehovah's Witnesses and leave the rest to me. I'm 100% sure that both JEHOVAH, Jesus and all the angels in heaven will be glad you've saved a soul today! Luke 15:10
Thanks!

I am a strong advocate of faith that's practiced in the gathering of true worshipers
Born, bread and brought up in Islam. I strongly believed in Islam as the one and only faith that leads to heaven before i met Jehovah's Witnesses, their presentation caught my attention and i started studying with them. I carefully considered the idea that heaven is not the reward for righteousness just as all other religions teaches, i also learnt that polygamy is wrong since God has set the pattern for the union of male and female when he created one man and one woman, i also learnt that true believers ought to be like one family loving one another wholeheartedly no matter where you may come from. All of these and many more quenched the Love i had for Islam and made me embraced Christianity.
Now if you want to convince me that the group (Jehovah's Witnesses) that converted me from Islam is not true Christian group, all you need to do is present another better performing Christian group than them. I'm already convinced now that without faith in the only begotten son of God, no man can be saved. That one is settled, but as for this wonderful happy global family it will take more and much more than just words to convince me that they're not the reason Jesus commissioned Christianity.
Please just present another group that's performing better than them and i'll forever remain grateful to you for taking me to Christ Jesus, the good shepherd!
Thanks!

TATIME:
I am a strong advocate of faith that's practiced in the gathering of true worshipers
Born, bread and brought up in Islam. I strongly believed in Islam as the one and only faith that leads to heaven before i met Jehovah's Witnesses, their presentation caught my attention and i started studying with them. I carefully considered the idea that heaven is not the reward for righteousness just as all other religions teaches, i also learnt that polygamy is wrong since God has set the pattern for the union of male and female when he created one man and one woman, i also learnt that true believers ought to be like one family loving one another wholeheartedly no matter where you may come from. All of these and many more quenched the Love i had for Islam and made me embraced Christianity.
Now if you want to convince me that the group (Jehovah's Witnesses) that converted me from Islam is not true Christian group, all you need to do is present another better performing Christian group than them. I'm already convinced now that without faith in the only begotten son of God, no man can be saved. That one is settled, but as for this wonderful happy global family it will take more and much more than just words to convince me that they're not the reason Jesus commissioned Christianity.
Please just present another group that's performing better than them and i'll forever remain grateful to you for taking me to Christ Jesus, the good shepherd!
Thanks!

What are the yardsticks you need for a better group?

rottennaija:


What are the yardsticks you need for a better group?

LOVE! John 13:34-35, 1John 4:8

The Arabs deceived the whole world with Islam by displaying a hypocritical love that's not real, when you travel for hajj you'll see all of them bowing towards their deity as if there's unity but trust me Iraqis and Iranians are both Islamic nations, their hypocricy is seen as politics and racism beats their god to death so that the peace and love they claim to have in their religion proves to be false!
If an American or British or Japanese declares Islam today as his religion, they'll start jubilating everywhere they're but that doesn't stop them from brutalising him in the face of racism and politics!
You can say Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching heresy, lies, falsehood and whatever you may call it, but so far their God (who brought them together just like all other religions) is able to eliminate racism and politics in their midst, making them to embrace one another throughout the globe as one spiritual family, there's NOTHING you or anyone can say to discredit them before me, unless you're able to show me another group that could make what is working in their midst work elsewhere which is true LOVE!

TATIME:


LOVE! John 13:34-35, 1John 4:8

The Arabs deceived the whole world with Islam by displaying a hypocritical love that's not real, when you travel for hajj you'll see all of them bowing towards their deity as if there's unity but trust me Iraqis and Iranians are both Islamic nations, their hypocricy is seen as politics and racism beats their god to death so that the peace and love they claim to have in their religion proves to be false!
If an American or British or Japanese declares Islam today as his religion, they'll start jubilating everywhere they're but that doesn't stop them from brutalising him in the face of racism and politics!
You can say Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching heresy, lies, falsehood and whatever you may call it, but so far their God (who brought them together just like all other religions) is able to eliminate racism and politics in their midst, making them to embrace one another throughout the globe as one spiritual family, there's NOTHING you or anyone can say to discredit them before me, unless you're able to show me another group that could make what is working in their midst work elsewhere which is true LOVE!

Are there any other criteria?
Is this love to be conditional? Based on certain conditions?

rottennaija:


Are there any other criteria?
Is this love to be conditional? Based on certain conditions?

What do you think about Jesus' word found at John 13:34,35 and John 17:20-23?

According to Jesus (God's only begotten son), LOVE is the one and only criteria to determine the group practicing pure worship!

Of course that LOVE must be conditional! God love the world so much that HE gave HIS only begotten son so that whoever BELIEVE in Him will not PERISH! John 3:16
Do you notice that God's love is also conditional?
Before the ultimate sacrifice is applied on your case, you MUST exercise faith in Jesus! Which means no matter how nice a person is, if he fails to meet up with this criteria God's love won't cover such a person!
Jesus also displayed such conditional love too!
Remember what happened when His mother and brothers came to Him, Jesus publicly declare that his heart is based on those having the same mindset with him! Matthew 12:46-50
So Jehovah's Witnesses also displayed the same kind of LOVE as they love everyone by trying during rain and sunshine to convince them to join their happy global family just as Jesus did back then. Whoever willingly join them immediately becomes their family no matter where you may come from. But if you insist you won't join them, they won't hate you instead they will make you know that you're not safe by separating themselves from you!
So LOVE is the only criteria according to Jesus and it's conditional!

TATIME:


What do you think about Jesus' word found at John 13:34,35 and John 17:20-23?

According to Jesus (God's only begotten son), LOVE is the one and only criteria to determine the group practicing pure worship!

Of course that LOVE must be conditional! God love the world so much that HE gave HIS only begotten son so that whoever BELIEVE in Him will not PERISH! John 3:16
Do you notice that God's love is also conditional?
Before the ultimate sacrifice is applied on your case, you MUST exercise faith in Jesus! Which means no matter how nice a person is, if he fails to meet up with this criteria God's love won't cover such a person!
Jesus also displayed such conditional love too!
Remember what happened when His mother and brothers came to Him, Jesus publicly declare that his heart is based on those having the same mindset with him! Matthew 12:46-50

So Jehovah's Witnesses also displayed the same kind of Conditional LOVE as they love everyone by trying during rain and sunshine to convince them to join their happy global family just as Jesus did back then. Whoever willingly join them immediately becomes their family no matter where you may come from. But if you insist you won't join them, they won't hate you instead they will make you know that you're not safe by separating themselves from you!
So LOVE is the only criteria according to Jesus and it's conditional!

I have added a word for you. I think you forgot to. Check the bolded.

Have you examine the love among members of Redeem Christian Church of God?

rottennaija:


I have added a word for you. I think you forgot to. Check the bolded.

Have you examine the love among members of Redeem Christian Church of God?

That's IMPOSSIBLE!
Because "RACISM and POLITICS" the two powerful missiles Satan is using to eliminate the love people have for one another is destroying their gathering!

They're into politics and racism as well! I remembered few years ago when their GO spoke against the ruling party, a law was passed to remove all general overseers that has spent over twenty years in office. This almost caused ethnic conflicts, the baba declared he is no more the overseer but now nobody remembers the incident as baba is back in his position now as GO!
Moreover they're into racism, so if the members of that church in Nigeria and Ghana are in their national army of course they'll kill one another due to racial dispute.
Sorry my friend, that Church can't be it. If they're the ones who preached to me as a Muslim back then, it will be extremely difficult for them to convert me since it's just worship against worship and nothing more!
Jehovah's Witnesses beat all the feelings in me with their practical applications which is undeniably superb!

TATIME:


That's IMPOSSIBLE!
Because "RACISM and POLITICS" the two powerful missiles Satan is using to eliminate the love people have for one another is destroying their gathering!

They're into politics and racism as well! I remembered few years ago when their GO spoke against the ruling party, a law was passed to remove all general overseers that has spent over twenty years in office. This almost caused ethnic conflicts, the baba declared he is no more the overseer but now nobody remembers the incident as baba is back in his position now as GO!
Moreover they're into racism, so if the members of that church in Nigeria and Ghana are in their national army of course they'll kill one another due to racial dispute.
Sorry my friend, that Church can't be it. If they're the ones who preached to me as a Muslim back then, it will be extremely difficult for them to convert me since it's just worship against worship and nothing more!
Jehovah's Witnesses beat all the feelings in me with their practical applications which is undeniably superb!

Why use the expression if? Why not just show examples of members who are in wars?

rottennaija:


Why use the expression if? Why not just show examples of members who are in wars?

There is ONE of Jesus' comments Jehovah's Witnesses added more flesh to make it clearer than the way it was written!

@Matthew 26:52, Jesus said "those who takes the sword shall perish by the sword"
Peter wanted to act out of SELF DEFENCE to protect Jesus and his colleagues, Jesus REBUKED him for it.
Jehovah's Witnesses interpreted/misinterpreted (as anyone may think) that statement as saying "Christians must not take up weapons" and at Isaiah 2:2-4 Isaiah prophesied that in the last days when true worshipers are gathering together for salvation, they WILL NOT LIFT UP SWORD AGAINST ONE ANOTHER, NEITHER WILL THEY LEARN WAR ANYMORE!

I was fully convinced that Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation of that text is perfect, because that's the only way Christians can live without killing anyone, by refraining from participating in WARS!
Please my friend, the Church in question have members who are into politics and lots of members who are also in the army (weapon bearers and professionals at WAR) so it's extremely difficult for the LOVE Jesus talked about to work in their midst, that's why i said their love ends within the walls of their place of worship just as our Love back then as Muslims ends in Mecca!
That's why the Jews condemned Jesus, because He wasn't encouraging them to fight for their nation, and by so doing He's not going to lead them to war in order to conquer their captors "the Roman Empire"!

TATIME:


There is ONE of Jesus' comments Jehovah's Witnesses added more flesh to make it clearer than the way it was written!

@Matthew 26:52, Jesus said "those who takes the sword shall perish by the sword"
Peter wanted to act out of SELF DEFENCE to protect Jesus and his colleagues, Jesus REBUKED him for it.
Jehovah's Witnesses interpreted/misinterpreted (as anyone may think) that statement as saying "Christians must not take up weapons" and at Isaiah 2:2-4 Isaiah prophesied that in the last days when true worshipers are gathering together for salvation, they WILL NOT LIFT UP SWORD AGAINST ONE ANOTHER, NEITHER WILL THEY LEARN WAR ANYMORE!

I was fully convinced that Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation of that text is perfect, because that's the only way Christians can live without killing anyone, by refraining from participating in WARS!

Please my friend, the Church in question have members who are into politics and lots of members who are also in the army (weapon bearers and professionals at WAR) so it's extremely difficult for the LOVE Jesus talked about to work in their midst, that's why i said their love ends within the walls of their place of worship just as our Love back then as Muslims ends in Mecca!
That's why the Jews condemned Jesus, because He wasn't encouraging them to fight for their nation, and by so doing He's not going to lead them to war in order to conquer their captors "the Roman Empire"!

Are there no members of Jehovah’s Witnesses who are not in the Army or Navy or Police or Custom?