The 144,000 - Overcomers - Religion - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The 144,000 - Overcomers (2284 Views)
The Lord's Supper And The 144,000 Anointed Jehovah Witnesses / Founder Overcomers Christian Mission Arc Ezeugo Alexander Laid To Rest(photos) / Bishop Alexander Ezeugo Ekewuba Is Dead! (Overcomers Christian Mission Owerri) (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (Reply) (Go Down)
| The 144,000 - Overcomers by AdventHero: 4:54am On Sep 25, 2022 |
Moment of Power #453 - Overcoming Evil [Part 8] Who is Able to Stand? Becoming a part of the 144,000 Our scripture for meditation today tells us that these are people "without guile in their mouth and in whom was found no sin". They are overcomers! Last days' saints redeemed from the earth (Rev. 14:3). They are people who have become like Jesus Christ in character (1 Peter 2:21-22), depending on the power and spirit of God to overcome their sinful nature. You can make the decision today to be a part of the 144,000. Dear God, we need you at such a time as this. We know that anybody holding on to any sin knowingly will enter your kingdom. Cleanse us and give us the power to live above sin, in Jesus' name, amen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfscuUCXezo https://fb.watch/fLy5Fd01Ze/ 1 Like |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 5:02am On Sep 25, 2022 |
AdventHero:It is impossible for you, a non-Israelite, to be counted as one of the 144000, since, the very one who informed you of the existence of the 144,000, made it abundantly clear to you that they are made up of those who are of the blood of Israel.  |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by AntiChristian: 7:21am On Sep 25, 2022 |
[center]  [/center] |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:07am On Sep 25, 2022 |
They are the BORN AGAIN brothers of Christ and Jesus told his friends that you can only be his disciples by choice but as for becoming a member of the little flock of the first sheep it's neither by choice nor effort {Matthew 20:20-23} because many are called to everlasting life but few are chosen to rule with Christ! READ Matthew 22:1-14 |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:15am On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: The highlighted is wrong! Most Bible readers often quote Revelations chapter 7 without careful reading, diligent study and thorough meditation on what was written there. ” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 Out of the tribe of Judah 12,000 sealed; out of the tribe of Reuʹben 12,000; out of the tribe of Gad 12,000; 6 out of the tribe of Ashʹer 12,000; out of the tribe of Naphʹta·li 12,000; out of the tribe of Ma·nasʹseh 12,000; 7 out of the tribe of Simʹe·on 12,000; out of the tribe of Leʹvi 12,000; out of the tribe of Isʹsa·char 12,000; 8 out of the tribe of Zebʹu·lun 12,000; out of the tribe of Joseph 12,000; out of the tribe of Benjamin 12,000 sealed. The original bloodline of Jacob (Israel) are not the mentioned. Something is missing!  |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by KaLuCh: 10:58am On Sep 25, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Could you be a little clearer sir? I thought you meant that the 12 tribes mentioned here aren't originally Jacob's bloodline? If that wasn't what you meant, please who are? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:43am On Sep 25, 2022 |
KaLuCh: The Bible book of Revelation is not to be taken literally! Please open your Bible to Exodus 1:1-5 Now these are the names of Israel’s sons who came into Egypt with Jacob, each man who came with his household: 2 Reuʹben, Simʹe·on ,Leʹvi, and Judah; 3 Isʹsa·char, Zebʹu·lun, and Benjamin; 4 Dan and Naphʹta·li; Gad and Ashʹer. 5 And all those who were born to Jacob were 70 people, but Joseph was already in Egypt The real names are as follows: [1]Reuben [2]Simeon [3]Levi [4]Judah [5]Issachar [6]Zebulun [7]Benjamin [8]Dan [9]Naphtali [10]Gad [11]Asher [12]Joseph But in the Bible book of Revelation 7:4-8 this is the list: ” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 Out of the tribe of Judah 12,000 sealed; out of the tribe of Reuʹben 12,000; out of the tribe of Gad 12,000; 6 out of the tribe of Ashʹer 12,000; out of the tribe of Naphʹta·li 12,000; out of the tribe of Ma·nasʹseh 12,000; 7 out of the tribe of Simʹe·on 12,000; out of the tribe of Leʹvi 12,000; out of the tribe of Isʹsa·char 12,000; 8 out of the tribe of Zebʹu·lun 12,000; out of the tribe of Joseph 12,000; out of the tribe of Benjamin 12,000 sealed. [1]Judah [2]Reuben [3]Gad [4]Asher [5]Naphtali [6]Manasseh [7]Simeon [8]Levi [9]Issachar [10]Zebulun [11]Joseph [12]Benjamin Please check if these things are so {Act 17:11; 1Thessalonians 5:21} then if you need further explanation to understand why this is the case let me know! God bless you and may you have PEACE! |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by KaLuCh: 12:11pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Thank and God bless you too sir. I see the difference here, the tribe of Dan isn't in Revelations' list. Also, the half tribe of Manasseh was included, and Joseph too, even though we know that Joseph's Tribe was later split into two namely Ephraim and Manasseh. Was that the point you wanted me to get? Or there's more. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 1:46pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
KaLuCh:God didn't really specify that those He would send out to all 4 corners of the earth would be an exact number from each of the tribes of Israel. So if is erroneous thinking to assume that John's list in Revelation ought to match some previous set of names specified elsewhere in scripture. According to John, the one whose revelation it was, the 144,000 which he claimed was revealed to him were as specified and they are all of them of the bloodline of Israel. So, no gentile can claim to be or become one of John's 144,000 list. 1 Like |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 2:38pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
AntiChristian: Don't even bother to understand this, they are a confused lot. Watch as they come up with different theories and exegesis on the fabled 144,000. The answer to this confusion is in the Gospel of Barnabas. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 2:41pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: You keep quiting Jewish names, you keep repeating their stories yet you gat no business with them? Oya ask yourself that question I use to ask you  |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:58pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
KaLuCh: I want you to know the meaning of what John penned down in that book! This is what it means: Israel is the name God gave the man who was desperate to inherit the heritage of pure worship as an everlasting blessing {Genesis 32:28} Jacob was ready as in battle prepared to gain that heritage so he outsmarted his brother (Esau) and fought with God's angel (vision) for the same purpose. From God's viewpoint anyone from any race having such attribute is an Israelite so if they're from another nation Jesus referred to suchlike ones as the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" that's why he told his disciples to fish out such individuals first from among the Jews {Matthew 10:6} this will be the first set to become BORN AGAIN brothers of Christ or as the scriptures called them members of the first resurrection {Revelations 20:1-6} but since the Jews failed to complete the needed figure (144,000) then the invitation was extended to other nationalities! Matthew 22:1-14 Note that salvation is for all mankind {John 3:16} there are some places where the good news will not reach them in time until the final part of the days {Matthew 10:23} so the needed figure would have been completed before the Good News gets to them therefore members of such nations will have everlasting life for welcoming the Good News of God's Kingdom but none from their nation will be chosen to rule with Christ because the Good News reached them lately! That's the meaning of what John penned down in the Bible book Revelations 7:4-8 May you have PEACE! 1 Like |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 3:05pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Straight from the Books of Babbles Babble 1:8 1 Like |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 4:51pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:Where exactly is the supposed answer found in this Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Barnabas? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 5:07pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: According to the Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus is reported to have said that number represents the Numbers of Prophets God sent out to Mankind in every Languages, tribes and Nations of the World. Yes same number is found in the Islamic Prophetic Traditions. The writer/s of Revelations got it all missed up. And if you want the exact word as it was in that Gospel just say so but I would advise that you download one and read for another perspective on the Message of that Noble Messenger of God to the Tribes of Israel. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 5:22pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:1. Are you insinuating that God sent out 144,000 prophets each from every language and every tribe and every Nation? Or that God sent only 144,000 "prophets" in total to people of every tongue, every, tribe and every nation? 2. I already read through the Gospel of Jesus according to Barnabas and considered how much of what is contained contradicts even the prophets, hence the reason why I hesitate to quote from it. By the way, who exactly is this noble messenger whose perspective you wish for me to consider? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 6:02pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: Sir, I am not insinuating anything. Read my post again. I said Jesus was reported to as said so in the Gospel of Barnabas. Good that you have read the Gospel and make up your own mind about it contents. I have also read it as well as other accounts of Jesus time here and I found it more detailed than every other ones I came across. The perspective I was referring to is that of Barnabas Gospel and since you have read no problem. And the Noble Prophet I refered to is the Nazarene, Jesus the son of Mary. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 6:13pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:1. But what you claim Jesus Christ said contradicts that reported by the Prophets - Isaiah and Jeremiah etc. - regarding those whom God will send. 2. Yes, I have read it. 3. The apostle Barnabas is reported to have written an Epistles of Barnabas which is dated to about 70AD which states much of what conflicts with that written in that Gospel of Barnabas that is reported to have been written around the middle ages . So this Noble one you claim brought a message which directly conflicted with those of the prophets before him?? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 6:40pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: 1. What exactly did Isaiah and Jeremiah says the that Barnabas contradicts? I will like specifics. 2. If you have read it, I want you to do the followings a. Isolate Jesus Parables in Mathew, Mark and Luke (John have only one Parable of Jesus) and read the Parables in Barnabas. Compare them and see which is more detailed and offered tangible meanings b. List the names of the Disciples in Mathew, Mark and Luke as well as John. Now check the Disciples name in Barnabas. You will notice that the first four never agreed on the excat names and also all of them were unanimous is not having Barnabas but on a curious note. We read in the Acts that a certain Barnabas was the one who mediate between the Apostles and Paul. They were comfortable with him and would listen to him yet we never read about him in the Canonicals. Who was this Barnabas? 3. If you read the opening lines in Luke's Gospel, you will find where he says his works is a collation of numerous other Gospel in circulation back then. Many have written about it he felt he can do a better job of presenting a detailed work than the rest. What am I saying? There are hundreds of such Gospels after Jesus left. Hundreds of them. So, saying it Barnabas ownwas written in the middle ages is absolute hogwash. There is a Gospel of Thomas found in Egypt sometimes in the 1945 or thereabouts. Scholars agreed that it was written some 150 years after Jesus left, I am sure if it had mention what you don't want to hear, you would have termed it spurious too. If Barnabas wrote an Epistle, could he not have written an Account of Jesus life too? I don't know what message is in conflict with what any messenger brought. All Messengers message revolves around worshipping God and being Godly. Was it not Micah that said the whole duty of man is to do God's commandments? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 6:59pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:1. They both provide confirmation for that claimed in Revelation as indeed those that were sent out by God were of the stock of Israel. And there mission was to go out into the world to gather from every tribe, every language and every nation, the lost sheep of israel. So all those chosen by God for the mission are meant to proceed from the stock of Israel. 2. These ideas will do better on other thread so we don't derail this one too much. 3. Indeed there are many other Gospels, and one thing we know well of tye Gospel of Jesus Christ is that it confirms, not contradict, the Law and the prophets. Hence reason why all those hundreds of Gospels cannot be assumed to be authentic simply on their say so. 4. Not saying he couldn't have. It's just that the message in the Gospel of Barnabas doesn't even agree with that written in the Epistle of Barnabas - they were not penned by the same author nor persons who shared similar beliefs. 5. Well, to worship God means to live one's life in submission and obedience of His actual teachinga and commandments , His Law really. And so all that conflict in anyway or form with His Law is meant to be discarded and considered not of Him. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 7:17pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: You see something we really have to set out as a corner stone of any discussion we are going to have on this matter is the fact that it is not only in Israel The Almighty God spiritual blessing is locked up only in Israel. If you truly believe that it is only in Israel The whole world will find salvation then this discussion is meaningless. God's blessings of choosing a messenger and directing man's affairs is not locked up only in Israel. God have chosen Messengers and Prophets from every nook and cranny of this planet. But the Nation of Israel has had a greater share of these Messengers and Prophets. That is why I will read any book and every book that claimed inspiration from God and make up my own mind. If you care to read the Gospel of Barnabas, Jesus issue with the Jewish hierarchy begins when he called out their hypocrisy in every facet of their lives, then telling them that it was in Ishmael that the promise was. On the numerous Gospel Accounts, if you have the time, you will find therein inconstancies of humongous proportion but the gist of the story is the same namely Jesus came to die! |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 7:38pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:1. God and the things of God is not based on that which you and I would prefer. The prophets made it abundantly clear from the beginning that God choose the Israelites for His people from all of the peoples of this world, and it is by using them that He intends to bless the Nations of the world. He made this known to Abraham, to Isaac, Jacob, and even through all of the other prophets He sent. So, if you don't like that at all, you shouldn't have any dealings with the God of the Bible in no way or form. Again God doesn't care about the opinions of men where it concerns His plans. 2. According to God's Old Covenant Law of Moses, the National Constitution which He gave to the people of Israel, He promised He would send to them prophets from amongst their own brethren. So, when it comes to God gathering together all the lost sheep of Israel scattered about the entire world - to be gathered back from all languages, all tribes, and all nations - it makes sense that God would, as He promised in His covenant to Israel, that He would send prophets from among them to do just that. 3. This isn't about having a greater share but instead about God's own declaration, and those who believe in God know that He does not go back on His Word. You can read any book you want that pretends to speak of God, but what you read can only be of the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob if and only if the declarations made of Him do not in any way conflict with that declared by Him through His prophets. 4. As I said, the Gospel of Barnabas contends with even that declared by the prophets. God, through all of His prophets, made it abundantly clear even before Jesus Christ that Israel was His people. So, for any book to insist instead that Ishmael was God's chosen is a book that pretends to make a liar of God and all of His prophets combined. 5. I have read many of the Gospels and I only settle on those which in fact do not conflict nor contradict the Prophets. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 9:27pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: 1. Yes it is written in the Prophets that God choose Israel. It is also written in the Prophets that God will abandon Israel if they backslides and it was finally written in the Prophets that God have abandoned Israel. It is all in the Bible. I can show you all these. I am not one to make false claims on matter of faith. If I don't know I shut it. This I know! 2. Please be clear about this. Has that Prophet come or they are still waiting for him? 3. By saying Israel have had a greater share of God's blessing I meant to say, in the history of that Nation, they have had more if God's mouthpiece in Prophets than others but that doesn't not mean they have been better than others as a matter of fact it is to their condemnation for having more and believing less. That's why Christ say at the Judgement seat if God Nineveh will receive mercy and not a backsliding Israel. 4. What if the Jews had tempered with their records and portrayed Ishmael in bad light? And if I may ask, what exactly was Ishmael's "sin" that his birthrights as a Firstborn was taken away? He mocked Issac says the Jewish hands that wrote that episode. Is that enough to deny him what was his? Well, I read the Bible and I have an iron cast proof that it was ishamael that is the promised child for it was written " thine only" ...... If this episode refers to Issac then the Angel that dictated this is a retard for when Isaac came along Abraham has two and not an only son. 5. If you do not find any fault with the approved Gospels by the early church elders, it simply means you subscribe to their lies. It is qs simple as that. And to cling to the saying that God only talked with Israelites alone gives room to the thoughts that God is uncaring. He leaves others to stray while He nurtures Children who don't know Him nor do His biddings. 1 Like |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 9:44pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:1. Sure, go ahead and show exactly where you read this from. 2. The Prophet like Moses you mean? Yes, He is the Law and the Giver combined. The one through whom God then sealed and sent out those to gather back His people from every tongue, every tribe, and every nation of the world. 3. God chose Israel, not the other way around. And He made clear from the beginning that His choosing of Israel had nothing to do with Israel being better than any other people. As a matter of fact, God said Israel was the worst of the stock but He choose to use them regardless. Also, Jesus Christ is true since God never said He would accept anything less than perfection from His Israel. God already had a plan from the beginning, a plan outlined even in the Old Law of Moses, on how to get exactly what He wants from Israel. 4. Then it is God Himself whom you should not trust in that instance since what that would mean is that His Word is not everlasting as He claimed. 5. I didn't say anything about reading only those you consider approved. I said I have read many of the Gospels and I compare them all with that spoken of God through the prophets to validate that contained in them. The reason I have so far found no faults in the Words of Jesus Christ as contained in the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John is that so far, I have not found any record attributed to Jesus Christ that conflicts with that spoken of by any of the Prophets before Him. This isn't about clinging to anything here. If the God of Israel Himself declared to the Israelites that He would send them, the Israelites, prophets from among their brethren, what reason would there be to consider any non-Israelite in that case unless if one does not fully believe God a faithful God? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Lukuluku69(m): 10:26pm On Sep 25, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: 1. There many instances. Dozens of such references. The question is, would take it or go the way of your own interpretations and deny them? 2. But Moses wrote in Duetoronomy 18:18 that another like him would come after him. As he? Or they still waiting for him to come? 3. True God choose Israel out of His own Will which no one can question and God also say He will chose another and make them jealous (the Israelites) too. The way they have made Him jealous when they went straying. 4. No we can't blame God, God is perfect, men are not. It is men who went straying after guidance has been shown him. God has set out His commmandements. So them and you will live, go against them and you die. It is that simple. 5. You are still saying what I said. You only believed the one you believed because it suits what you want to hear. Simple.[img][/img] Ans if I may ask, who are the brethren of the Israelites? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Ken4Christ: 12:12am On Sep 26, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Not everything in the book of Revelation is symbolic. Some are literal. And you will know when you read within contest which one is literal and which one is symbolic. For instance, the seven churches Jesus wrote letters to in the book of Revelation were literal. The churches were in existence. The twelve tribes mentioned in Revelation 7 are also literal. The question you should ask is why is the list different from the one in the Old Testament. Only the Tribe of Dan was excluded. And it was majorly because they were given to idolatry. They also rejected the land alloted to them. So, the Revelation 7 refers to Isreal as a Nation. And these 144,000 are the elect Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24. They will be raptured at the end of the great tribulation period that will befall the Jews. And they are seen in heaven in Revelation 14. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by Kobojunkie: 2:09am On Sep 26, 2022 |
Lukuluku69:1. I don't do interpretations. Instead for me, context is King and the I process what is written as is written. 2. Regardless of whether they are waiting or not, God has already sent another Law giver who also happens to be an embodiment of the Law/agreement promised as well. And He came over 2000 years ago. 3. If you are referring to Deuteronomy 32 vs 21, what God said is that He would use a worthless people who are not even a nation to make Israel jealous and a worthless nation to make Israel angry, not that He would abandon Israel and choose another nation instead. 19 “The Lord saw this and became upset. His sons and daughters made him angry!Surely, you understand very well how a father rarely abandons or disowns his children for being stiffnecked. How much more God who foreknew the sniff-neckedness of the Israelites long before He chose them to be His. For God to abandon/disown Israel amounts to God changing His mind and that is against who God is. Instead, God promised to curse the children of Israel - Deuteronomy 28 - and scatter them to all the ends of the earth, leaving behind only a remnant each time, if they refused to obey Him and that is exactly what God did to them instead. 4. This isn't about men at all but about God who said that His Word is eternal and unchanging. So, if God's Word falls victim to the schemes of men, it is a dent in God's image and who He claims to be. 5. From among the 12 tribes of Israel. |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by TenQ: 3:26am On Sep 26, 2022 |
AdventHero:1. These are specifically from the 12 tribes of Israel 2. These are males only 3. They have kept themselves pure |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by TenQ: 3:30am On Sep 26, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse:Have you noted that they have never been called 12 tribes of Jacob but 12 tribes of Israel? |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:46am On Sep 26, 2022 |
Ken4Christ: The whole nation practiced idolatry that's why God punished them severally until that nation was condemned! Matthew 21:43 |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:49am On Sep 26, 2022 |
TenQ:Israel is the name God gave all faithful people so faithless descendants of Jacob can't be rightly called "Israelites" that's what God's word says: Circumcision is, in fact, of benefit only if you practice law; but if you are a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. If, therefore, an uncircumcised person keeps the righteous requirements of the Law, his uncircumcision will be counted as circumcision, will it not? And the physically uncircumcised person will, by carrying out the Law, judge you who are a transgressor of law despite having its written code and circumcision. For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. That person’s praise comes from God, not from people Romans 2:25-29 1 Like |
| Re: The 144,000 - Overcomers by TenQ: 6:59am On Sep 26, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse:It was a simple and direct question! Have you noted that they have never been called 12 tribes of Jacob but 12 tribes of Israel? |
What Is Faith / Charles Darwin's 10 Mistakes / My Rational Case For The Existence Of God.
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 178 |