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Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 3:39pm On Aug 05, 2019 |
tintingz: If intelligent and conscious humans can give life to the dead in the future, then this will ONLY show that INTELLIGENCE and CONSCIOUSNESS is required for the miracle of Abiogenesis to take place. It would NEVER prove that unintelligent and unconscious nature has performed this miracle in the past .See how the hope of the atheists would continue to be shattered even to the end of the world ! |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:38pm On Aug 05, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: Do you know what an infinite regress is? And how did you arrive at this claim that anything that's eternal cannot have a change? So by this logic, God is frozen for eternity? |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:41pm On Aug 05, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: You haven't answer my question, provide evidences why it's only supernatural being that can give life, what are your proof of supernatural being that give life? Sometimes it's just better to say "I don't know" than making some ridiculous nonsensical claims. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:45pm On Aug 05, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22:Oga, have you been to the past to verify what happened? Are you making this up or you have proof for your claims? |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:49pm On Aug 05, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22, again I will ask, if God is not caused then do you believe something can exist without a cause? If yes, does the logic of "something must cause something" still hold? |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 8:38am On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: This is how I arrived that anything that is eternal cannot have a change; (a) For anything to CHANGE, an external cause is required to trigger this change. (b) But at the beginning, nothing exist except this ETERNAL entity. (c) Therefore, there is no any external cause that can effect a change in this ETERNAL entity. Hence anything that is ETERNAL would not have a "changing" characteristic. See how I have assisted you to divide my explanation into three points. Now out of these three points, which one do you think is wrong ? |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 8:50am On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: There are only two options ; natural being or supernatural being. But I have given a logical explanation that it is impossible for natural being like nature to give life to the dead. Here again is my explanation; Abiogenesis is impossible for the "unconscious and unintelligent" nature because of the natural law of entropy. Natural law of entropy simply says things get to be worsened when left to themselves. For example, a dead cell tends to decay and disintegrate as time passes by. Now let assume that nature want to create the first living and self replicating cell from non living materials (abiogenesis). Remember that non- living materials is no way different from dead cell because both are "dead" already. In fact, dead cell is even higher in quality than non-living materials because some of the organelles (which are no where to be found in the non-living materials) may still be present in the dead cell. Now this is where I am going; if natural law of entropy tends to cause the dead cell to decay and disintegrate ever more, then would such law of entropy allow the non-living materials to build up gradually until they reach the level of "dead cell"-let alone to the level of "living and self replicating cell"? Yes or no (answer this question ). Let me know what is wrong in this argument. Therefore, if natural being cannot perform the miracle and we have only two options, then the only option left (supernatural) must do it. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 9:28am On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: Yes, the logic of something must cause something still hold. But the series of something must cause something cannot continue indefinitely. Let me use an illustration to buttress my point. Mr A need some amount of money and he needs to borrow this money from B. Again, Mr B needs to borrow from C. Again, Mr C needs to borrow from Mr D. You will agree with me that if this act of borrowing continue indefinitely, then Mr A would not be able to get the money. So one person along the series must have money of his own which he needs not to borrow from anybody. So in similar manner, if the series of something must cause something continue indefinitely, then nothing will be caused into existence just like Mr A would not be able to get the money. So something must exist on its own without being caused into existence by anything just like one person along the series of borrowing must have money of his own which he needs not to borrow from anybody. Hope everything is now clear; the logic of something must cause something still hold but the series cannot continue indefinitely. There must be something along the series which must not be caused into existence. This very something is eternal and infinitely old. So this very something is either universe or God. But since universe is not eternal because of its changing characteristics ( see the previous post), then the only option left is God. In conclusion, the logic of something must cause something still hold and the same time one something must exist without a cause so that the series of something must cause something will not continue indefinitely (infinite regression). |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:19am On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: Lmao. You can never cause something from nothing, you have something from prior causes, show me any cause that came from nothing, just one. You cannot have money on your own, you have money from prior causes. See special pleading fallacy. "Something must cause something" and at the same time "Something can exist without a cause". This is just a pleading for your God and I don't argue with that nonsense logic. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:31am On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: Just give me evidence of a supernatural being that gives life. You claim something, provide your proof not some chit chat epistle. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:45am On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22:An eternal cause is not necessary for a change of something. (b) But at the beginning, nothing exist except this ETERNAL entity. How did you know? Well the universe can be eternal! (c) Therefore, there is no any external cause that can effect a change in this ETERNAL entity.So this eternal entity does not have any prior experience? It does not think, reason, move? Hence anything that is ETERNAL would not have a "changing" characteristic.Such thing must either be frozen or non-existence. See how I have assisted you to divide my explanation into three points. Now out of these three points, which one do you think is wrong ?Everything is wrong with your premises. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 12:49pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: When did I wrote that something was caused by nothing ? I never said that. But if you insist I said so, pls quote my words from the previous post. tintingz: Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle without justifying the special exception. But I have justified my special exception. Let me qoute my words again: "the logic of something must cause something still hold and the same time one something must exist without being caused by something so that the series of something must cause something will not continue indefinitely (infinite regression)" This is my justification; "so that the series of something must cause something will not continue indefinitely (infinite regression)". But if you think that my justification is wrong. Here is another similar fact that looks contradictory but definitely true ; " Professor must be certified by professor and at the same time one professor must exist without being certified by professor so that the series of professor certifying professor will not continue indefinitely(infinite regression)". Is this also a nonsense logic ? Tell me the difference between this fact and the my words which read thus " something must cause something still hold and the same time one something must exist without being caused by something so that the series of something must cause something will not continue indefinitely (infinite regression)" So it is not a pleading for my God. Rather, it is a logical necessity so as to avoid infinite regression into the past. 1 Like |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 1:03pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: We have natural source and supernatural source as two options for the origin of life. I have proved that natural source is impossible due to law of entropy. You say nothing about this despite the fact that I asked you to logically refute my argument. Now the only option left is supernatural. But if you think it is not supernatural, then it is left for you to provide ANOTHER OPTION apart natural and supernatural source. 1 Like |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 1:10pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: I have explained logically why only external cause can effect a change in something using an illustration of alkali and three drops of indicator ( see previous post). Now you also explain logically how internal cause can effect a change in something using an illustration. 1 Like |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 2:03pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22:When something is said to be caused from nothing, such thing does not have a cause it exist without a cause. You argument is that something can exist without a cause which conflicts the logic something must cause something. Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle without justifying the special exception.You're still using the special pleading fallacy for your God. You just don't want to accept your God was caused therefore he needs to be exempted from the logical argument something must cause something. A professor cannot cause itself to be professor, forget about infinite regress, nowhere a professor caused itself to be professor! This argument is to point out the flaws in theists argument when they argue something must cause something and again want us to believe God was not caused. You have to choose one, either something must cause something (which leads to infinite regress) or not everything has a cause and choosing both is a conflict and a paradox. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 2:37pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: I would rather say I don't know how life came to be than making up some mumbo jumbo claims you can't even prove. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 3:03pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: Everything that happens in the universe follow natural process, that's the causes we know that happened, the external cause you're talking about is your fairytale you're yet to prove. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 3:27pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: Is that your logical explanation of how internal cause can effect a change in something ? If everything that happens in the universe follow natural process as you claimed, then explain to us how the following miracles follow a natural process; 1. Emergence of the first living and self replicating cell from non living materials. 2. Emergence of the first pair of male and female from asexually reproducing organisms 3. Emergence of a fully grown baby from a fertilized egg |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 5:43pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: I DON'T KNOW how life came to be and I don't need to fill my Ignorance with God-did-it, I don't make use of argument from Ignorant fallacy. For all we know natural process is all we can observe, I don't know the external cause you're talking about. |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 10:26pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
tintingz: If you don't know how life came to be, then this is my final advice for you; # You must place your bet on either the existence of God or on His non-existence. # If you place your bet on existence of God, you lose nothing even if it turns out that God does not exist. # But if you place your bet on non- existence of God you lose everything if it turns out that God does exist. # Therefore it is reasonable and logical to believe that God exists and then fill your ignorance with God did it Good bye !!! |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 10:51pm On Aug 06, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: So now believing in God should be place on bet?, if this is how desperate you're to believe in God, I'm sorry I don't follow that road. I can't waste all my life believing in God and later found out there's no God up there, that will be some regret of my life. So yes I will loose something if my bet found out God doesn't exist, it's wasting of my Ghad damn time. Filling my Ignorance with God is like saying another word for God is ignorance! |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by Abdulgaffar22: 5:17am On Aug 07, 2019 |
tintingz: If there's no God up there, there would be no resurrection. And If there is no resurrection, you would still remain as dust in the grave. As a dust in the grave, you have NOTHING TO REGRET about your life if you choose to believe in God. But if God actually exist, there would be resurrection. And if there is resurrection, then you have EVERYTHING TO REGRET about your life if you choose to disbelieve in God. So my brother think very well, your argument is not logical and reasonable! It is still better to believe in God than to disbelieve in Him |
Re: The Only True Faith Approved By God For The Salvation Of Humanity by tintingz(m): 7:29am On Aug 07, 2019 |
Abdulgaffar22: Lol, so if there's no afterlife when we die, then why wasting your time believing in God? If there is afterlife, God may not be there to meet, we might be in another dimension and you will be regretting. If there is afterlife and there's God, it won't be Allah, it will be FSM and he's going to punish you for eternity for being religious and believing in his creation Allah. Think my brother, think. |
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