femi4:
Most of the things you wrote here are based on an encounter with someone attending a Pentecostal Church not a Pentacostal doctrine. The major issue Pentacostal have with Catholic were not even pointed out in your write up.

E.g The issue of "holy Mary pray for us" and "bowing to Jesus statue "

About Holy Mary pray for us, again have you ever asked a friend to remember you in prayers? So someone who birthed The Lord is not fit to?

About bowing to images? The best way I can think of it is humanity, respect and attitude towards 'symbol of authority'

Why do you stand at attention when singing the national anthem? Why do you beat your chest when vowing in the National pledge (that's an vow if you all don't know), why are some Europeans made to bow in the presence of their kings and kiss their rings? Why are people made to stand if an import at person e tees the room and do not sit till the person does? Do you know that's respect bothering on worship? Why are children thought in school to bow and genuflect n greeting in the presence of authority or a sign of respect? Why are offices made to hang the picture of the ruler of the time, say the president, the governor? Is that worshipping them?

Now, why do some people don't. Simple, because they either don't believe that's a display of respect or they don't believe the person, or country the action is channeled towards is not deserving of it.

The human mind is powerful and spiritual. It processes these things. And how you consider a person to be an influence in your life, how you revere that person will determine the level of 'respect', you accord him/her. Every thing you know that connotes reverence, you'll do.

To the person watching you, you'll be seen to be worshipping the person, but in your mind, you're a coring respect to whom you think it's due.

Issueof images: why do you connect more to certain people and/or places if you're watching videos, pictures of them which remind you of things you did together or your memories of the place? Why do you even take pictures?

If you think of these things as a human being and not on the lines of religion, I believe they make more sense. Christianity shouldn't be a religion, it's a way of life. Seeing it as just a religion reduces it to mere operation.

No Catholic Church will ever demand its parishioners to worship images. I know a Rev. Fr. that always cautions people because truth is some people may drift and that there is because they're seeing it from religious angle and not due to the connection.

femi4:
You are lacking depth

Communion literally means "sharing." It's breaking bread together. The word "communion" comes from King James Bible translation of the Greek word for. "sharing" which Paul used in describing the taking of bread and wine as the body and blood of Christ.

Oooh! it's femi4

I know all this... you re right but you are actually missing context of christ purpose at the last supper

femi4:
He didn't say it was his true body. He used them as representation and commanded us to do it in remembrance of him. Let your further claim comes with scriptural backing

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins." (Mt 26:26-28; cf. Mk 14:22-24, Lk 22:17-20, 1 Cor 11:23-25)

Mind you we all know he had to use a representation but in the context of Christ he was professing something extra-ordinary...

maum:


About Holy Mary pray for us, again have you ever asked a friend to remember you in prayers? So someone who birthed The Lord is not fit to?

About bowing to images? The best way I can think of it is humanity, respect and attitude towards 'symbol of authority'

Why do you stand at attention when singing the national anthem? Why do you beat your chest when vowing in the National pledge (that's an vow if you all don't know), why are some Europeans made to bow in the presence of their kings and kiss their rings? Why are people made to stand if an import at person e tees the room and do not sit till the person does? Do you know that's respect bothering on worship? Why are children thought in school to bow and genuflect n greeting in the presence of authority or a sign of respect?

Now, why do some people don't. Simple, because they either don't believe that's a display of respect or they don't believe the person, or country the action is channeled towards is not deserving of it.

The human mind is powerful and spiritual. It processes these things. And how you consider a person to be an influence in your life, how you revere that person will determine the level of 'respect', you accord him/her. Every thing you know that connotes reverence, you'll do.

To the person watching you, you'll be seen to be worshipping the person, but in your mind, you're a coring respect to whom you think it's due.

Issueof images: why do you connect more to certain people ans/or places if you're watching videos, pictures of them which remind you of things you did together or your memories of the place? Why do you even take pictures?

If you think of these things as a human being and not on the lines of religion, I believe they make more sense.

No Catholic Church will ever demand its parishioners to worship images. I know a Rev. Fr. that always cautions people because truth is some people may drift and that there is because they're seeing it from religious angle and not due to the connection.

Why Mary? You can as well involve Joseph, Abraham, Moses, Elijah even John the Baptist. We should be careful on how we use human understanding in fabricating and introducing some doctrines that are not scripturally founded into our denominations.

Jesus never commanded us to reach him via any priest, not even Mary. Peter and Paul never did as well.

Its a shame that the use of human wisdom has watered down the biblical standard in how we choose to worship God today.

flex04:


While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins." (Mt 26:26-28; cf. Mk 14:22-24, Lk 22:17-20, 1 Cor 11:23-25)

Mind you we all know he had to use a representation but in the context of Christ he was professing something extra-ordinary...

Perhaps Paul had you in mind when he wrote this in 1Cor 11


20
When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat,
21
for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk.
22
Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
23
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
24
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me."
25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28
A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.
29
For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

femi4:
Why Mary? You can as well involve Joseph, Abraham, Moses, Elijah even John the Baptist. We should be careful on how we use human understanding in fabricating and introducing some doctrines that are not scripturally founded into our denominations.

Jesus never commanded us to reach him via any priest, not even Mary. Peter and Paul never did as well.

Its a shame that the use of human wisdom has watered down the biblical standard in how we choose to worship God today.

It's not only Mary though. All the Saints and angels.

And no one is mandating anyone really. You mustn't ask Mary or a Saint to pray for you when you're praying. Just like no one is forcing you to tell your people to remember you in their prayers.

maum:


It's not only Mary though. All the Saints and angels.

And no one is mandating anyone really. You mustn't ask Mary or a Saint to pray for you when you're praying. Just like no one is forcing you to tell your people to remember you in their prayers.

Which is unfounded

flex04:


Oooh! it's femi4

I know all this... you re right but you are actually missing context of christ purpose at the last supper

lol

The purpose of last Supper is to remember His Sacrifice. Not your sacrifice, you are not offering sacrifice.

The sacrifice was done years ago, taking the last supper is to bring to your remembrance the efficacy of what happened on the cross of Calvary

femi4:
Perhaps Paul had you in mind when he wrote this in 1Cor 11


20
When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat,
21
for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk.
22
Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
23
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
24
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me."
25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28
A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.
29
For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

hope u read all before submitting because u are going to make explain each verse to you now

20
When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat,
21
for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk.
22
Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

Here he discovered they don't even understand what they are receiving or what they are into... some even come as opportunity to bele full

23
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
24
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me."
25
In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Here he said what I posted initially

26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28
A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.
29
For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

Here he further explain what the communion has in its backend

femi4:
Hope you understand

femi4:
Why Mary? You can as well involve Joseph, Abraham, Moses, Elijah even John the Baptist. We should be careful on how we use human understanding in fabricating and introducing some doctrines that are not scripturally founded into our denominations.

Jesus never commanded us to reach him via any priest, not even Mary. Peter and Paul never did as well.

Its a shame that the use of human wisdom has watered down the biblical standard in how we choose to worship God today.

Mind you... the same goes to Joseph and John T.B but fr the rest u mention, they died befr christ .... So Did Jesus ask us to keep Sunday holy?

flex04:


Mind you... the same goes to Joseph and John T.B but fr the rest u mention, they died befr christ .... So Did Jesus ask us to keep Sunday holy?

He's the Lord of the Sabbath and made it clear that Sabbath day activities is not superior to any other day . When believers meet to worship is not as important as "meeting to Worship"

Bifrost:


Who are you kidding?

You're either Catholic or not. What the heck is "kinda catholic"?

I meant I dont participate fully anymore

femi4:
He's the Lord of the Sabbath and made it clear that Sabbath day activities is not superior to any other day . When believers meet to worship is not as important as "meeting to Worship"

I understand the logic, what am saying is that if truth being told not every we do are recorded scriptural... at some point Paul had to place some doctrine in place, incase you are not aware some things Christians are instructed to do are actually some of Paul's doctrine

flex04:


I understand the logic, what am saying is that if truth being told not every we do are recorded scriptural... at some point Paul had to place some doctrine in place, incase you are not aware some things Christians are instructed to do are actually some of Paul's doctrine

That's my problem, calling it logic as if those words are mine. It was scriptural

femi4:
That's my problem, calling it logic as if those words are mine. It was scriptural

That's my problem you keep devating

braveboy64:
The catholics

Why

xynerise:
So the Pentecostals have finally accepted Holy Communion after so many condemnation?

You guys will keep evolving in the Catholic way unknowingly.

Holy Communion is for Baptized Christians who are in the state of grace.

""Holy Communion is for Baptized Christians who are in the state of grace""

Says who?



""Pentecostals have finally accepted Holy Communion after so many condemnation?""

I've never seen a Pentecostal church that do not take communion

maum:


About Holy Mary pray for us, again have you ever asked a friend to remember you in prayers? So someone who birthed The Lord is not fit to?

About bowing to images? The best way I can think of it is humanity, respect and attitude towards 'symbol of authority'

Why do you stand at attention when singing the national anthem? Why do you beat your chest when vowing in the National pledge (that's an vow if you all don't know), why are some Europeans made to bow in the presence of their kings and kiss their rings? Why are people made to stand if an import at person e tees the room and do not sit till the person does? Do you know that's respect bothering on worship? Why are children thought in school to bow and genuflect n greeting in the presence of authority or a sign of respect? Why are offices made to hang the picture of the ruler of the time, say the president, the governor? Is that worshipping them?

Now, why do some people don't. Simple, because they either don't believe that's a display of respect or they don't believe the person, or country the action is channeled towards is not deserving of it.

The human mind is powerful and spiritual. It processes these things. And how you consider a person to be an influence in your life, how you revere that person will determine the level of 'respect', you accord him/her. Every thing you know that connotes reverence, you'll do.

To the person watching you, you'll be seen to be worshipping the person, but in your mind, you're a coring respect to whom you think it's due.

Issueof images: why do you connect more to certain people and/or places if you're watching videos, pictures of them which remind you of things you did together or your memories of the place? Why do you even take pictures?

If you think of these things as a human being and not on the lines of religion, I believe they make more sense. Christianity shouldn't be a religion, it's a way of life. Seeing it as just a religion reduces it to mere operation.

No Catholic Church will ever demand its parishioners to worship images. I know a Rev. Fr. that always cautions people because truth is some people may drift and that there is because they're seeing it from religious angle and not due to the connection.

""About bowing to images? The best way I can think of it is humanity, respect and attitude towards 'symbol of authority''''

God said u shouldn't bow down to any image, even an image even an image in/from heaven

A few notes.

Communion, the act of taking the bread and wine--also known as the Lord's Supper--is not simply a Catholic thing. Many--perhaps even most--Protestant groups have communion as well, though some replace the wine with juice.

What is more specific--but not limited--to Catholicism is the doctrine of the Real Presence, the idea that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus rather than it being a purely symbolic celebration. While this belief is most associated with Catholicism, this is also believed in by Lutherans, Anglicans/Espicopalians, and the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox. Methodists and Presbyterians also believe in this to a lesser degree, viewing it as more of a "spiritual" change but nevertheless rejecting the idea that Communion is purely symbolic. I think some Pentecostal groups also take the Methodist/Presbyterian view. The idea unique to Catholicism is the doctrine of Transubstantiation, a specific understanding of how the Real Presence works that is rejected by the other groups mentioned.

When I gave my initial answer in this topic, I was trying to give an answer that I felt applied regardless of whether one saw communion as literal (the Real Presence as discussed above) or symbolic.

Paul's advise here is not concerning sin because a Christian cannot sin (1 John 3:5-10, John 15:22, John 8:34-36) since his/her flesh which produces sin(Gal.5:19-21) has been crucified together with the *flesh of Jesus Christ on the cross* and in exchange Jesus Christ is now living/dwelling/manifesting inside his/her mortal bodies thus Jesus cannot produce sin in the mortal body of any person who is a Christian (Gal.2:7)
however Paul was advising brethren to *believe* that they are consuming the body and blood of Jesus Christ when they eat this as a fellowship not just ordinary food, another vital practice in those days is that while coming for fellowship those who can afford to buy/bring unleavened bread and wine(vine) are expected to get as much as possible so that they can share with those who cannot afford it hence they should wait for everybody to assemble so that those who cannot afford the bread and wine will partake from the generosity of other brethren instead most people come early with their bread and wine; pray, break it, eat and drink to glutton before others arrive, that is what that passage of the scripture is saying. Read 1 Cor.11:18-34 KJV in-order to grasp the whole message.
Great Grace Brethren!!!

patorial:


I meant I dont participate fully anymore

Then you're just a catholic follower

patorial:


I'm kinda catholic, and I guess they didn’t tell you What christ the original investor required

Who are they? And what requirements are you talking about?

Because you attend a Catholic church doesn't make you a Catholic

femi4:
Show where its written that only priest can offer Communion.

NB: Communion is not sacrifice

Leviticus 1-7, Hebrews 5:1, 8:3 etc. Go and read your Bible and stop asking stupid questions

LOL...... Who told you it's not a sacrifice? Jesus at the passover with his disciples offered himself as a living sacrifice when he gave his body and blood to be eaten just as the children of Israel did in Egypt whereby the angel of death could not touch them, thereby through that very action put an end to death through his death on the cross, thereby sharing in his life through his resurrection by "Communion" with him.

ArticleBeast:

Can you show me where in the bible this is stated? I need a verse not some conjured doctrines. I'm a catholic but I'm not blinded by some doctrines. I base my catholic faith on what is stated in the bible. It is the same way I don't buy into the idea of confession as practiced by the catholic church. My bible say I can access God directly...

Leviticus 1-7, Hebrew 5:1, 8:3. In fact go and read the whole book of Hebrews and you would see so many instances of who the priest is and his functions.

Let me ask you a simple question, in your village, who offers sacrifices to the gods of the land? When you get the answer, please keep it to yourself and just imagine how stupid your question is

NwaAmaikpe:



Holy communion is barbaric, no true Christian should partake in it.
Anyone who takes holy communion is no different from the cannibals at Ebem Ohafia and Obingwa.

Of all the things you'd want to eat, why eat the flesh and blood of our Saviour?

Jesus encouraged it and I wonder why you are against it.

my guyz, crunchyg, agozie48 , ekakamba.... I no forget una o ,

Apination:


Leviticus 1-7, Hebrews 5:1, 8:3 etc. Go and read your Bible and stop asking stupid questions

LOL...... Who told you it's not a sacrifice? Jesus at the passover with his disciples offered himself as a living sacrifice when he gave his body and blood to be eaten just as the children of Israel did in Egypt whereby the angel of death could not touch them, thereby through that very action put an end to death through his death on the cross, thereby sharing in his life through his resurrection by "Communion" with him.

you are quoting old testament. You lack depth. Jesus is the Sacrifice, partaking in the communion is remembering the sacrifice and its importance.

1Cor 11:26

This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

Apination:


Leviticus 1-7, Hebrew 5:1, 8:3. In fact go and read the whole book of Hebrews and you would see so many instances of who the priest is and his functions.

Let me ask you a simple question, in your village, who offers sacrifices to the gods of the land? When you get the answer, please keep it to yourself and just imagine how stupid your question is

Anybody offers sacrifice as long as you worship the gods. Hope I have answered your stupidity. By the way you can at least offer a New testament scripture. Jesus is our new high priest. By the way, you didn't answer my question, have you read in the scripture that somebody entered heaven because he was a catholic or because he was a born again christian?

ikorodureporta:
my guyz, crunchyg, agozie48 , ekakamba.... I no forget una o ,

The decision of 'who should partake in communion' now lies with the church and her doctrines.

The Holy Communion is for every living soul who acclaims Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior. Remember that Jesus said in the Bible that"He that didn't eat my body nor drink my blood shall have no life in him, for my body is real food and my blood is real drink and he that eat my body and drink my blood shall life in him.
This clearly indicates that we must eat and drink the body and blood of Jesus Christ to have eternal life.

We eat the body and blood of Jesus Christ unworthily when we receive Christ at communion in sin. Paul said that when we receive the Holy Communion in sin we have brought damnation upon ourself.

As Christians, Whenever we want to receive Christ at Communion we must make sure we are at peace with Christ and we have no grudges against our fellow human being, We forgive all those who sin against us and seek for the forgiveness of those whom we may have offended. Doing all this before receiving Christ at Communion will enable us to receive him worthily without sin or damnation.

ArticleBeast:

Anybody offers sacrifice as long as you worship the gods. Hope I have answered your stupidity. By the way you can at least offer a New testament scripture. Jesus is our new high priest. By the way, you didn't answer my question, have you read in the scripture that somebody entered heaven because he was a catholic or because he was a born again christian?

Your foolishness knows no bounds. You are asking me for new testament scriptures as though Hebrews is in the old testament. What has being a catholic and going to heaven got to do with topic?

femi4:
you are quoting old testament. You lack depth. Jesus is the Sacrifice, partaking in the communion is remembering the sacrifice and its importance.

1Cor 11:26

This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

Is Hebrews old testament?