if the entire human race was borne of 2 people Adam & Eve then doesn't that mean all the generations born after their first set of offsprings are products of incest?

Well, that would depend on who is defining the term incest, and when it was first defined, and for what reasons. Do you know the origin of the word, and the context for its definition? That is important.

In the beginning incest didn't exist as a sin as we know it today. Inter-familial procreation only became a problem some time after creation. Soon after the flood when men began to separate to different regions because of language barriers, different genetic expressions forced close family members to discontinue inter-familial procreation.

The laws of nature somehow as far as procreation is concerned posed a problem for close family members being able to produce healthy offsprings, due to the effects of sin.

This is a valid philosophical argument. Scientifically, it is even more crucial that there exist sufficient genetic variation in a breeding population otherwise the population would suffer tremendous genetic diseases and abnormalities. This has been very well studied in the Jewish and Indian communities where the prevalence of some genetic diseases have been ascribed to the marrying of very close relatives.

In the animal kingdom, this problem also is well reported. The leopard population has very low levels of genetic variation, resulting the very high mortality of leopard cubs. In fact, it has been estimated that leopard are very close to the brink of extinction, not for their low numeric population but for their low genetic variation.

If the human race had originated only from two identical individuals (noting that Eve was produced from the same genetical material as Adam), there would have been little or no variation. Resulting in very high mortality in their offsprings. There chances of surviving thousands of years would have been almost zero.

Adam and Eve in my perception refers to the first cluster of men and women that inhabited the earth as humans. This first time human earth dwellers comprise of several men and women. Adam and Eve does not refer to a single man and woman. Inbreeding is against the laws of genetics and results in gradual but sure extinction of species. There is no way the human population would have survied from only one man and one woman. Hereditary diseases and reproduction of deletitious mutations in inbred reproduction strongly argues against the scenario of adam and eve being a single man and a single woman. Equally, the variation in the genome of present humans strongly supports a cluster of several men and women to which we can trace our biological ancestry. It is not a coincidence that their is a greater genetic variation among subsaharan Africans compared to humans belonging to other geographical regions. Present genetic evidence appear to trace our biological ancestry back to subsahara Africa. Whether or not the human body of the present day humans originated in africa, or migrated there from other regions or that parrallel origins exited is still an ongoing investigation. The law of genetics in my view is created and mainted by the power of God, thus it does not make sense for the creator to contradict the same law he created. Thus the believe that the entire mankind originated from a single man and woman is a genetic absurdity in my perception and has no genetic/molecular or even spiritual evidence to support it.

@M_Nwankwo: Your hypothesis about multipersons Adam and Eve as the parents of present mankind shows very clearly your complete lack of existence of God Almighty who is powerful beyond human comprehension. Let me digress and approach Huxley for a moment before I lump the two of you together.

@Huxley: Your hypothesis, also in the disbelieving that there is a single male called Adam and as his mate a single female called eve, shows your true nature about the existence of God.

For the two of you, you have clearly forgotten that there are living things which are Unicellular, yet they strive and reproduce. Yet, some of these are germs or bacterials which when they invade the body of human, the most intelligent of all that are on earth, it spells immediate doom. We are aware of what is called Ebola, arent we?

I often wonder how the pure evolutionists argue thebeginning of life, when there is materials on earth yet unknown? Or have they forgotten that knowledge is progressive and not everything known is completely understood, yet?

When we examine creation, I wonder how we find that species behave as predicted? Who provided the laws that each species predictively obeys? Who organises the behaviour of plants and animals, and make the food chain and ecology of creation continuance as predicted? How is it possible that we have not gotten another Adam and Eve cluster, as M._Nwankwo have stated, or a new set of apes or some premitive primate coming to become man, as suggested by Huxley?

All these theories, no hypothesis are more of mental chaos because of disbelief in God! In all history, we have have not found, completely different species copulating together and producing an offspring. We have all heard about the beastiality sexual practices, yet in all of these extreme behaviour, there has not been a single offspring produced!

Can the sperm of a man penetrates the Egg of anything, eg. dog and survive to produce an offspring? Let me make it easy for you guys, how about human and monkey or any of these so called "close human relatives?" And I am sur that the crazies among humans have thought about it. But they will not announce their failures to the rest of the world.

Just theorising without practical proof is empty statement. That what both of your groups have done. One denies God existence, and the other cheapened His awesomeness. I guess we will find out when we are at the point of death! Or can any of you delay it, even for a moment, when it is your turn?

Humans forget that they were at a time never existed! The arrogance of Children of Adam toward the Creator. Yet they will at a time in the future will be a thing of the past.

olabowale:

@M_Nwankwo: Your hypothesis about multipersons Adam and Eve as the parents of present mankind shows very clearly your complete lack of existence of God Almighty who is powerful beyond human comprehension. Let me digress and approach Huxley for a moment before I lump the two of you together.

@Huxley: Your hypothesis, also in the disbelieving that there is a single male called Adam and as his mate a single female called eve, shows your true nature about the existence of God.

For the two of you, you have clearly forgotten that there are living things which are Unicellular, yet they strive and reproduce. Yet, some of these are germs or bacterials which when they invade the body of human, the most intelligent of all that are on earth, it spells immediate doom. We are aware of what is called Ebola, arent we?

I often wonder how the pure evolutionists argue thebeginning of life, when there is materials on earth yet unknown? Or have they forgotten that knowledge is progressive and not everything known is completely understood, yet?

When we examine creation, I wonder how we find that species behave as predicted? Who provided the laws that each species predictively obeys? Who organises the behaviour of plants and animals, and make the food chain and ecology of creation continuance as predicted? How is it possible that we have not gotten another Adam and Eve cluster, as M._Nwankwo have stated, or a new set of apes or some premitive primate coming to become man, as suggested by Huxley?

All these theories, no hypothesis are more of mental chaos because of disbelief in God! In all history, we have have not found, completely different species copulating together and producing an offspring. We have all heard about the beastiality sexual practices, yet in all of these extreme behaviour, there has not been a single offspring produced!

Can the sperm of a man penetrates the Egg of anything, eg. dog and survive to produce an offspring? Let me make it easy for you guys, how about human and monkey or any of these so called "close human relatives?" And I am sur that the crazies among humans have thought about it. But they will not announce their failures to the rest of the world.

Just theorising without practical proof is empty statement. That what both of your groups have done. One denies God existence, and the other cheapened His awesomeness. I guess we will find out when we are at the point of death! Or can any of you delay it, even for a moment, when it is your turn?

Is there anything in the least bit comprehensible in the above? What a waste of gray cell, damage by religious dogmatism!

@Olabowale

I just do not understand why you seem to vehemently disagree with what I said. I stated that based on genetic evidence, it is impossible for the human population to have originated from one man and one woman. I really wonder why that statement appear to you as "cheapinig the power of God" God created nature and the laws governing nature and part of that law is that inbreeding is a genetic sucide. There are overwhelming evidence across species including humans that inbreeding is harmful and will result in progenies with genetic disorders and harmful mutations that cannot positively adapt to the enviroment. Keep crossing a particular specie with itself and after several generations, sterility sets in , followed by extinction. One thing is certain, whatever ever is an act or the will of God, those acts will never be contradicted by past, present and future scientific discoveries. Where such contradictions exist, then the acts were not from God but the postulations of men. In many threads, I have discussed evolution with you and in this thread I am not discussing evolution. I am merely stating that genetic evidence clearly favor adam and eve being a generic name for the first cluster of several men and women that inhabited the earth. As for death, that is the most beautiful experience for some one who lives in the sense of the laws of God.

m_nwakwo,

do not forget that God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. He made laws and can change laws., times and seasons! If you believe the account of the bible about the sun standing still, then why cant you believe that as at that time, ther was no genetic suicide in producing offsprings by two people made of same genetic materials. He probably introduced what yu now call genetic suicide in the later part of our existence to stop in-breeding? Why cant you think about that for a minute?

If that is possible that he could have suspended the same laws he made like making Jesus Ascend into the sky as both the qurihan and the bible has it, thereby debilitating gravity, then he could do so, other laws he made.

Simple enough i guess?

@Huxley: You have proven my point exactly. Your complete denial of the existence of god will make my writing incomprehensible to you. And for M_nwankwo's cheapening of the power of God, by his partial belief of Him, but relegated Him to a human being is why he is at least head and shoulders above you in understanding.

Huxley, your essays could just be looked at as a pure waste of human resources. Unfortunately, your type dies of and in time what people remember them by is their deviance and their denial of God! If you are looking for followers, you will not find it here. But tell me, have you ever seen more than one mother carrying the pregnancy of the same child, in the same time? If it is impossible, thats how impossible all your hypothesis are!

@cgift,

Thanks for your contribution. God cannot annul the laws he created because he created them out of omniscience. That means that God is all knowing and what ever is his law is immutable and not subject to change. It is only imperfect humans that will create a law, then find out later that it does not work as they thought or that they need to refine it, then the change the law. It is possible for creatures to undergo development but not God and his laws. Actually laws is not a set of rules, rather it is the power of God that has taken on form in myriads of his creations. There is only God and his Power. All creations even the spiritual and the divine worlds are the power of God that has taken form. This power of God in it varied manifestations and forms carry within itself the attributes of the origin of the power (God) and these attributes are immutable and because they are immutable, they are for lack of the right word called laws. If it becomes necessary, I will give quite a detailed description of the power of God that manifests in immutable laws. Now to the points you raised.

1. With God, the past, the present and the future is the same. God created the human body and its template (DNA) such that humans will be able to be a succesful species both with regards to adapting to the new earthly enviroment, transforming it and fufilling the purpose for his or her existence (to recognise the will of God and live accordingly). If God has originally made inbreeding ok in the beginning and then later reprogramed it to result in genetic sucide as you seem to suggest, then that evidence will be found in the DNA. What people seem to forget that in the piece of DNA, you can work back several millions of years and find out how it was then. No evidence that a reprogramming of the human DNA took place anytime. Secondly, if God changed the laws midway, then that suggests lack of all knowing in the first place. Why will God create a law and annul it midway if the original act was perfect and issued from all knowing wisdom? With God the past, the present and future acts will remian the same and will never contradict each other. Sure cgift, God is the alpha and omega but that does not mean that God can change his own laws. Creation is governed by the laws of God and they follow precise course. It is the laws that makes it impossible for God to sin. Indeed God is the living law, the origin of the power that created and maintain these laws. It is the immutability of Gods laws that make it impossible for God to turn stones into bread, to turn mango to humans, etc. It is the same immutable laws that makes it impossible for God to violate the ten commandments. Therefore the saying that all things are possible with God is only true if those things are in harmony with Gods will. It is the same immutability of Gods laws that makes it impossible for God to obliviate evil with a fiat.

2. It is impossible to make the sun stand still because the sun is always in motion. That is the way God originally designed it. If the sun stood still as you stated even for a second, there will be overwhelming astronomical evidence to back it up. Indeed if the sun stood still, then simulteneouly, the orbits of planests around the sun will be changed, the orbit of the milky way will be changed and indeed the movement of the whole universe will be changed to accomodate for the slightest stop in the sun. In the part of Norway I live, about June, the sun shines for 24 hours(even in the midnight). High school geography can explain why that is so but several thousands of years the inhabitants of this land thought that at those times the sun stays with them during the summer periods. Even as late as 100 years ago, many cultures still see the complete eclipse of the sun as an intervention from God, yet it is known that such occurrence are the norm within the cylcle of our sun and the moon. God originaly made them that way. Thus I repeat it is literally impossible to make the sun stand still, if it were otherwise we would have seen more of such occurrence and the evidence will be everywhere.

3. Yes Jesus, the son of God ascended to heaven, not by annuling the law of Gravity but by fufilling it. I will give explanation on this statement if it becomes necessary. A simple analogy will suffice at this point, birds and airplanes fly by adapting to the physical law of gravity and not by annulling it.

@Olabowale,

You are entiltled to your own opinion. My purpose is to study the laws of God in Gods creations, the physical, the non-physical and the spiritual and live accordinly. In explaining my experiencing of the laws of God, I recognise that some of the explanations run counter to what people have learned from their various religions for years, centuries and millenia. People should just look at themselves and in life and they will find wheather or not what I post is true. With respect to this issue, pick any specie (plant or animal) and interbreed and see what will happen after about 5 generations. Most people (including you) do agree that inbreeding is harmful to the propagation and survival of species. Why will God use two genetically identical humans (adam and eve) to pupulate the whole world? Why will an amniscience God create and use a genetically flawed process?

This is really getting more and more interesting. I like your analysis. They are obviously enlightened. Let me give my rebuttals nevertheless.

m_nwankwo:

@cgift,

Thanks for your contribution. God cannot annul the laws he created because he created them out of omniscience. That means that God is all knowing and what ever is his law is immutable and not subject to change. It is only imperfect humans that will create a law, then find out later that it does not work as they thought or that they need to refine it, then the change the law.

Good. I believe that as well that God cannot annul his laws. However, i would not say i fully comprehend your religious inclinations at the moment but i see that you believe in God and also believe in the bible (even if to an extent). That notwithstanding, i think there are some misconceptions we need to iron out and fast too.

m_nwankwo:


1. With God, the past, the present and the future is the same. God created the human body and its template (DNA) such that humans will be able to be a succesful species both with regards to adapting to the new earthly enviroment, transforming it and fufilling the purpose for his or her existence (to recognise the will of God and live accordingly). If God has originally made inbreeding ok in the beginning and then later reprogramed it to result in genetic sucide as you seem to suggest, then that evidence will be found in the DNA. What people seem to forget that in the piece of DNA, you can work back several millions of years and find out how it was then. No evidence that a reprogramming of the human DNA took place anytime. Secondly, if God changed the laws midway, then that suggests lack of all knowing in the first place. Why will God create a law and annul it midway if the original act was perfect and issued from all knowing wisdom? With God the past, the present and future acts will remian the same and will never contradict each other. Sure cgift, God is the alpha and omega but that does not mean that God can change his own laws. Creation is governed by the laws of God and they follow precise course. It is the laws that makes it impossible for God to sin. Indeed God is the living law, the origin of the power that created and maintain these laws. It is the immutability of Gods laws that make it impossible for God to turn stones into bread, to turn mango to humans, etc. It is the same immutable laws that makes it impossible for God to violate the ten commandments. Therefore the saying that all things are possible with God is only true if those things are in harmony with Gods will. It is the same immutability of Gods laws that makes it impossible for God to obliviate evil with a fiat.

God's laws are immutable does not mean that he cannot suspend it to achieve a particular aim or goal.

m_nwankwo:

2. It is impossible to make the sun stand still because the sun is always in motion. That is the way God originally designed it. If the sun stood still as you stated even for a second, there will be overwhelming astronomical evidence to back it up. Indeed if the sun stood still, then simulteneouly, the orbits of planests around the sun will be changed, the orbit of the milky way will be changed and indeed the movement of the whole universe will be changed to accomodate for the slightest stop in the sun. In the part of Norway I live, about June, the sun shines for 24 hours(even in the midnight). High school geography can explain why that is so but several thousands of years the inhabitants of this land thought that at those times the sun stays with them during the summer periods. Even as late as 100 years ago, many cultures still see the complete eclipse of the sun as an intervention from God, yet it is known that such occurrence are the norm within the cylcle of our sun and the moon. God originaly made them that way. Thus I repeat it is literally impossible to make the sun stand still, if it were otherwise we would have seen more of such occurrence and the evidence will be everywhere.

Are you saying in essence that the narration in the bible falls flat on its face as the bible declares that the Sun stood still on the day the Children of is Israel fought against an enemy nation. What scenario then must have taken place if not that the sun stood still physcially? It could not have been reported as an extra-ordinary event when it happened if it had always been like that in that part of the world (my thinking).

m_nwankwo:

3. Yes Jesus, the son of God ascended to heaven, not by annuling the law of Gravity but by fufilling it. I will give explanation on this statement if it becomes necessary. A simple analogy will suffice at this point, birds and airplanes fly by adapting to the physical law of gravity and not by annulling it.

I think i will need further explanations on your submissions there. How do you mean adaptiing the law of gravity to go against gravity? Can i then adapt the same law of gravity to start going upwards into the air?

Jesus walked on the waters, is that not a suspension of some laws of upthrust or whatever the scientists want to call it? The same thing applies to the axe in the time of Elijah that floated from the bottom of the ocean to the surface! I see these occurences as a suspension or call it violation of laws that he made and not an adaptation (whatever you mean by that anyway).

Cheers!

olabowale:

@Huxley: You have proven my point exactly. Your complete denial of the existence of god will make my writing incomprehensible to you. And for M_nwankwo's cheapening of the power of God, by his partial belief of Him, but relegated Him to a human being is why he is at least head and shoulders above you in understanding.

Huxley, your essays could just be looked at as a pure waste of human resources. Unfortunately, your type dies of and in time what people remember them by is their deviance and their denial of God! If you are looking for followers, you will not find it here. But tell me, have you ever seen more than one mother carrying the pregnancy of the same child, in the same time? If it is impossible, thats how impossible all your hypothesis are!

Fortunately, this is something science can comment on. Science provide unimpeachable evidence that the origin of mankind is Africa, NOT the Arabian desert as the moronic desert dogmas suggest. Can you provide a single shred of evidence that suggest that your dogmas are right?

@Cgift,

Thanks for the mature manner you presented your rebuttals. I address the points you raised as follows:

1. Gods laws are immutable, they can neither be annuled or suspended. To suspend a law to serve a particular purpose implies that the law is lacking in some respect, thus it has to be suspended. That is true with humans but not God. The reason being that Gods law is perfect from the very beginning and thus accomodates contigencies that has happened, is happening or will happen. Therefore if a law has to be suspended, then that law is deficient and no deficiencies can be found with God or his laws. Miracles and what people regard as supernatural happenings are a fufillment of the laws, not an annulment, not a negation and not a suspension. The laws of God (more accurately the power of God) manifests differently with respect to material substance, non-material substance, spiritual substance etc. What scientists observe is only part of these laws, not the whole of the law. Scientists are investigating the power of God as it manifests in the material creations. They are not able using scientific methods to investigate the power of God as it manifests in non-material creations, spiritual creations, divine creations etc. Thus what we observe as scientific laws are only a part of the all embracing power of God. No human being no matter how blessed will be able to use the whole laws since humans are agian a part of this Gods power. Jesus however carries the whole laws within himself, he is the source of the totality of these laws and thus have in the past, now and in the future brought about miraculous happenings.  When those miracles are viewed in a slow motion, then it will be possible to see how a combination of all the totality of Gods laws results in happenings which is impossible for part laws to create. Because men are not aware that Jesus, being God, has all the totality of the laws of God, within himself, they ascribe these events to annulment, suspension or negation of these laws. The reality though is the Jesus as God have within him all the laws, not part laws which all creatures are subject to. Thus a direct act of God carries all the laws of God and can result in miraculous events. However if these miraculoues events manifests in the physical, then material evidence can be found to athenticate it. Because we do not care to investigate and recognise the laws of God, certain things that are impossible are blieved to be possible while others that are possible are thought to be impossible.

2. Gravity is only effective with respect to a particular substance. The body with which Jesus ascended to heaven is not a physical body and this should not be subject to the physical law of gravity. The resurrection body is subject to non-material law of gravity and thus was able to arise above matter. Just an earthly example, the water molecule is the same but the degree of heat or temperature can create a solid, liquid and gaseuous state. A block of ice cannot rise but when transformed into gaseous state by heating, then it can rise. This is ofcourse a crude analogy but it will hopefully convey the picture that the outmost covering of a substance or its state of density determines wheather or not it is attracted to heaven or repulsed away from it. For in reality, gravity is simply the attraction of all spiritual substance back to their origin (heaven) or the repulsion of these cloaked spiritual substance from their origin. Thus Jesus resurrection body is not physical and is not subject to physical laws, that is why it can ascend, pass through closed walls etc. The resurrection body was subject to the spiritual law of gravity, not to the material law of gravity

3. I am not saying that the narration in the bible is false. All I am saying it that it is impsossible for the sun to stand still and I have given some reasons why.  That means that readers should look for other expalanations for the events narrated in the bible.

4.  My postings are from my experiencing of the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message" Thank you and stay blessed.

@Huxley:

Fortunately, this is something science can comment on. Science provide unimpeachable evidence that the origin of mankind is Africa, NOT the Arabian desert as the moronic desert dogmas suggest. Can you provide a single shred of evidence that suggest that your dogmas are right?

And before Suez Canal the whole of Middle east was and is still part of the Main African continent.

And just the other day, we say the whole of palestinian people spilling over into Egypt! I am sure Atheist and Agnostic education kinda took that one over your head.

And before then, we saw from history books the Crusaders with their Horses did not load themselves on ship/vessels to do their mass killings.

And before then we knew that Jesus ran to Egypt to escape the first wave of plotters on his life!

And before then Moses escaped to median people from Egypt. He also came back on land back to Egypt to confront the Pharaoh who perished in the sea. Come to think of it, if A/llah did not design a defeat for the arrogant Pharaoh and his army, Moses would not have chosen the path that will have to lead them into the sea.

And before then the whole story of Joseph and his family between Middle east and Egypt took the dry land path.

And before that Ibrahim did journey to Egypt from his middle east home.

And even in most recent time, the african muslims used to journey on foot and on animals to perform hajji. And all of these were before Canal.

How many evidences above? And you only asked for one. I guess you have enough to think about taking your Shahada unless you are arrogant.

olabowale:

@Huxley: And before Suez Canal the whole of Middle east was and is still part of the Main African continent.

And just the other day, we say the whole of palestinian people spilling over into Egypt! I am sure Atheist and Agnostic education kind of took that one over your head.

And before then, we saw from history books the Crusaders with their Horses did not load themselves on ship/vessels to do their mass killings.

And before then we knew that Jesus ran to Egypt to escape the first wave of plotters on his life!

And before then Moses escaped to median people from Egypt. He also came back on land back to Egypt to confront the Pharaoh who perished in the sea. Come to think of it, if A/llah did not design a defeat for the arrogant Pharaoh and his army, Moses would not have chosen the path that will have to lead them into the sea.

And before then the whole story of Joseph and his family between Middle east and Egypt took the dry land path.

And before that Ibrahim did journey to Egypt from his middle east home.

And even in most recent time, the african great ones used to journey on foot and on animals to perform hajji. And all of these were before Canal.

How many evidences above? And you only asked for one. I guess you have enough to think about taking your Shahada unless you are arrogant.

How does any of the above non-sense show that the origin of mankind is Africa. All you just said was quote recent past events or old untestable (or unproveable) history and mythology. The oldest of the old event in the bible/k-ran is no more than 10000 years old.

Is bloodline are important to trace the beginning of the existence of human being? if we like to trace human race we should know the type of bloodline of each individual to come out this result. Just my comment if is possible?