So, this question has been bothering me for a while now. i don't know if you guys have heard this saying that programmers are good in mathematics, have you

So i'm an "okay" programmer and i do quite well for myself, but i hate maths and i must confess i'm terrible at it (at least so far). So if programmers are good at maths, how can i be so good a programmer and be terrible at maths and frankly, i do not really see the correlation here.

So what's your take on this guys

thought about it too
theyre programmers and there are programmers
too the lay man all code writers are programmers and they're right.
but some types of programmes require more maths than lay logic.
e.g
games - 3d games,
Artificial intelligence,
search ,distributed software
,low level softwares -

infact , softwars that write softwares require more than layman logic.
(compilers,operating systems, decompilers,anti viruses, interpreters, gps systems,
mail routing softwares, graph and network analysers
etc) do you write this type of softwares?

what i think is true is that even lay software can be quite complex to write - talking of level of details here - but one who's learned the art of logical thinking can transfer that
skill to learning mathematics. with a lil more effort of course.
if you can programme very well,you should be able to pick up mathematics too.it will only take you mor time but you should be able to learn faster than a non-programming noob. maths is kinda like programming in some respect.

correction:
software not softwares?

thought about it too
theyre programmers and there are programmers
too the lay man all code writers are programmers and they're right.
but some types of programmes require more maths than lay logic.
e.g
games - 3d games,
Artificial intelligence,
search ,distributed software
,low level softwares -

infact , softwars that write softwares require more than layman logic.
(compilers,operating systems, decompilers,anti viruses, interpreters, gps systems,
mail routing softwares, graph and network analysers
etc) do you write this type of softwares?

what i think is true is that even lay software can be quite complex to write  - talking of level of details here - but one who's learned the art of logical thinking can transfer that
skill to learning mathematics. with a lil more effort of course.
if you can programme very well,you should be able to pick up mathematics too.it will only take you  mor time but you should be able to learn faster than a non-programming noob. maths is kinda like programming in some respect.

Yeah absolutely right "Programmers Are Good In Mathematics" because Mathematics have a very good relation with programming, Really, Because if a student is good in mathematics then programming is not a big deal for him/her.Well i was also a student of mathematics, Actually i just love mathematics, i love to solve the questions of algebra,calculus and mechanics, these all are awesome subjects of mathematics. i did my graduation in mathematics and programming, Now its very helpful for me to understand the concept of programming ,

If you check the origins of programming, it was pioneered by mathematicians and mathematical pursuits. Also programming of systems outside the typical business application(GUI, submit form etc.) usually requires some mathematical effort or grounding in formal methods.

For example in algorithm design do you bother to chek if your algorithm is well bounded ? How would it behave if requests multilied from 50k to 50million.

Some might argue that many applications don't need the kind of support to do 50m requests, they are probably right. Unfortunately once you've built your app without the right considerations, you'll be i'll prepared for the
kind of growth it might see.

So a good programmer(perceived) would be even better with a good understanding of mathematics. Maths is a good skill to have for that 1 out a 100 tasks you do that might need you to think out of the box.

@OP
If you ever attempt anything in gpgpu, graphics, AI, medical research and other low level stuff, you'll soon know the necessity of solid mathematical abilities. Programming isn't building web pages and bog standard Desktop apps where most of the thinking has been put into libraries for you, no, thats called developing.
It just isn't possible to be a "good" programmer without being good at math.

my own field needs alot of maths, am gsm programmer and encoding crypto and nasto algorithm like that of JAF and other boxes u can do nothing without maths,

so, it's safe to say that "Programmers are good in mathematics" is not a general phrase? or in other words, not ALL programmers are good in mathematics, yes?!?

Cos there are different levels of programming, it could be java, C++, J#, 8086/8085 assembly language, it could be programming a web page or a water tank, or a robotic arm or a car, or a mobile phone or a traffic light system or virus removal tool or network packet sniffer or even a simple plain text editor, all of which i do whilst NOT being good in mathematics and do not ALL require "mathematics" but rather more of logic, no??

and by mathematics, i do not mean arithmetics!!! i mean calculus, cylindrical coordinates, integrations, gama and beta functions, advance derivatives, legendre functions, 3-d coordinate systems, bessel functions, and the like of those crazy things,

@fallguy: this forum was made possible by PHP (web programming), or would you call that code writing it doesn't require "mathematics" though might require some "arithmetics". or am i wrong or am i missing something here guys??

@Gsmxpert: what kind of maths do you require? i know "engineers" may require the maths and the complex forumlars, but if i'm not mistaking here, isn't it after the engineers have solved their maths that the programmers come the teach the machines how to solve these complex maths (programming) i mean, i still don't know the almighty formula off the tip of my tongue, but written programs with it in different languages, in other words, i can teach the stupid (GIGO) machine how to solve complex maths using almighty formula for whatever reason the engineer needs it. en/decryption algorithms have a logic behind them, no?? and you need computers to realize this, no?? i've written programs for network en/decryption before, still didn't require much maths ON MY SIDE. or am i getting it wrong here Gsmxpert??

So though with limited or lack of in-dept knowledge of everything, in my opinion, code writers or programmers (whether high level or low level), the phrase in question here cannot be generalized

Have i missed something or, are there other opinions out there

I think the title of the post should be on what type of maths a software
developer needs to learn to excel in this field.
after a while learning "how to use" a language becomes boring.
curiosity to know more about being a "client user" bites- you now want
to dig deeper under the hood of your language and tinker a bit , but
the ignorance of mathematics is a barrier.
Then, its not really about the tool - the language - but rather the software you want to make.
like using a pen - has nothing to do with what you can write- its not about the pen then,its about your writing skills.

kheme:

so, it's safe to say that "Programmers are good in mathematics" is not a general phrase? or in other words, not ALL programmers are good in mathematics, yes?!?

Cos there are different levels of programming, it could be java, C++, J#, 8086/8085 assembly language, it could be programming a web page or a water tank, or a robotic arm or a car, or a mobile phone or a traffic light system or virus removal tool or network packet sniffer or even a simple plain text editor, all of which i do whilst NOT being good in mathematics and do not ALL require "mathematics" but rather more of logic, no??

and by mathematics, i do not mean arithmetics!!! i mean calculus, cylindrical coordinates, integrations, gama and beta functions, advance derivatives, legendre functions, 3-d coordinate systems, bessel functions, and the like of those crazy things,

@fallguy: this forum was made possible by PHP (web programming), or would you call that code writing it doesn't require "mathematics" though might require some "arithmetics". or am i wrong or am i missing something here guys??

@Gsmxpert: what kind of maths do you require? i know "engineers" may require the maths and the complex forumlars, but if i'm not mistaking here, isn't it after the engineers have solved their maths that the programmers come the teach the machines how to solve these complex maths (programming) i mean, i still don't know the almighty formula off the tip of my tongue, but written programs with it in different languages, in other words, i can teach the silly (GIGO) machine how to solve complex maths using almighty formula for whatever reason the engineer needs it. en/decryption algorithms have a logic behind them, no?? and you need computers to realize this, no?? i've written programs for network en/decryption before, still didn't require much maths ON MY SIDE. or am i getting it wrong here Gsmxpert??

So though with limited or lack of in-dept knowledge of everything, in my opinion, code writers or programmers (whether high level or low level), the phrase in question here cannot be generalized

Have i missed something or, are there other opinions out there

You are a Developer not a Programmer. There is a vast difference, creating forum software is not programming.
All Programmers know maths.

Mathematicians can be pretty good programmers. But dunno why a programmer is going to necessarily be good at math. Certainly better than your average person, or say your typical english major. But compared to an average (for example) mechanical/electrical/chemical engineer, proly not.

You can't escape maths if you want to do real programming.How will you come to terms with algorithms.Unless you want to be a an ordinary client programmer with limited knowledge.The more maths you can understand,the more obscure algorithms you can code and that makes you a good programmer.Ever heard of Donald Knuth,the guys algorithms books is a reference point for programmers worldwide and an authority in algorithms which is essentially mathematics.

Algorithms is a branch of theoretical computer science. But this is not the same as mathematics as a whole (analysis, topology, number theory, etc.)

I think programmers and algorithmic thinking is extremely valuable for applied mathematics, like numerical linear algebra, operations research, maybe some things like that.

But applied math is only a part of math, not all of it.

I'm just trying to think of when math is really used in programming. In algorithms, you use proof by induction to prove the correctness of an algorithm. But aside from that, when do you really, really need to know anything beyond high school math?

Maybe I've not been programming the right things, but I almost never use my mathematical training when coding. I guess it boils down to what you are programming, though. If you mostly do text processing in Perl, probably not math needed. If you write numerical linear algebra libraries in Fortran or C, then of course you need to know some math (or at least understand the existing algorithms.)

Anyway, I could be entirely wrong, I'm mostly just a dabbler in programming, not an expert.

@ topic

not necessarily.

programming is a language.

it has some math applications since it's based on binary code. But i wouldnt say just because someone is a programmer, therefore it automatically follows they're good at maths.

almost anyone can be programmer if they get the required training.

but not everyone can be a mathematician.

so while it follows that if you're good in maths, chances are you'll excel at programming, it doesnt mean if you're a good programmer you're automatically a math whiz.

tpia@:

@ topic

not necessarily.

programming is a language.

it has some math applications since it's based on binary code. But i wouldnt say just because someone is a programmer, therefore it automatically follows they're good at maths.

almost anyone can be programmer if they get the required training.

but not everyone can be a mathematician.

Abeg go and sleep! Crap!
You think we are discussing tribalism or the best form of witchcraft to suck infant blood here?
Keep yourself to Dugbe market and don't talk about things you have no clue about.

I came across this today, read for your enlightenment,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coder OR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmer

If all you do is join libraries together, then that might not be necessary. But even if all you do is code websites, you cant do any awesome stuff like creating a personal recommender engine or bayesian spam busting code or intelligent dynamic content caches without knowing some mathematics.

Mathematics in itself is not something to be scared of. I am not a guru myself but I would dearly love to have time to lock myself in a room for months and learnt the shit out of my engineering maths. It is so useful in real life and in coding too.

if you can think mathematically, coding becomes even easier. you can use similar concepts to quickly bootstrap your thinking e.g thinking in sets before thinking in select statements.

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This is not a fact. Just assumption

Programmers make use of a branch of mathematics known as discrete math. You don't have to be guru at math to learn how to program. It also depends on the level you're operating on.