The holyspirit is not in heaven. But in us on the earth. Check the scriptures

The above quote is from our highly learned pastor of CEC PLC in the link below

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-524364.32.html

I created this new thread because I didn't want to derail the previous one and would like our dear pastors to show me passages of the scripture which says that the holy spirit is not in heaven

Chai wetin be this?



Darling JeSoul, where is the thread on JoAgbaje? Im now much more interested in understanding this "paito".

Joagbaje:


The holyspirit is not in heaven. But in us on the earth. Check the scriptures.

chukwudi44:


The above quote is from our highly learned pastor of CEC PLC in the link below

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-524364.32.html

I created this new thread because I didn't want to derail the previous one

and would like our dear pastors to show me passages of the scripture which says that the holy spirit is not in heaven

@^^^

It is an audacious and ruffle feathers claim

and I think I empathise with him

John14:26 BBE:


But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name,

will be your teacher in all things and will put you in mind of everything I have said to you.

It is obvious where Joagbaje is coming from and what he based this on

I don't get the reason for this thread.

It is a simple truth. The same way you can say Jesus is in heaven and not on earth. Remember Jesus said He will have to go to heaven, but He was not going to leave them comfortless. He was going to "send" them another comforter.

Yes I understand the Holy spirit is a spirit and since He is God He is omnipresent, so why the talk about Him not being in heaven. But those where the words of Jesus I will send. When something is sent it means there is a change in location,

I believe when something, anything, someone is transferred from the heavenly realms to the earthward realms, it simultaneously exists in both dimensions. The earthward component is NEVER enough to entirely swallow the heavenly substance, but it FULLY represents it. Like DNA represents a biological unit. If I take a cell sample of a man to extract DNA and lock it away in a petridish in a cabinet, does this mean the man wont be able to leave the lab because he is locked in my cabinet?

Lets consider this instance: when the Father sent the son, was the WORD not still in heaven? Of course the WORD was in heaven yet manifested in the flesh and dwelt among men. Ditto the Holy Spirit of God. He lives in the new man, and yet He is in heaven.

InesQor:


I believe when something, anything, someone is transferred from the heavenly realms to the earthward realms, it simultaneously exists in both dimensions.

The earthward component is NEVER enough to entirely swallow the heavenly substance, but it FULLY represents it.

Like DNA represents a biological unit.

If I take   a  cell sample of a man to extract DNA and lock it away in a petridish in a cabinet,

does this mean the man wont be able to leave the lab because he is locked in my cabinet?

Lets consider this instance: when the Father sent the son, was the WORD not still in heaven?

Of course the WORD was in heaven yet manifested in the flesh and dwelt among men. Ditto the Holy Spirit of God. He lives in the new man, and yet He is in heaven.

The man could leave but can the DNA? Would the DNA be able to unlock the cabinet?

. . . a bit flawed but right in a sense

Samson, Bezaleel, Aholiab, King Saul etc had flavours and not the full flavours of the Spirit of God

We never had the complete or full essence of the Spirit of God until now

Yes it was sent but it can be shut up from receiving - if you know what I mean, there

The Holy Spirit sent is like a Widow of Zarephath thing or experience

The buck stops with you. Turn off the tap or dont turn up with more vessels 

Always sending, always flowing from heaven Holy Spirit. What an amazing and unselfish God

By the way. What is the distinction & differences between :

- the Spirit of God that hovered over the earth,
- the Holy Spirit,
- and the spirits of God
(e.g. the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD)

[img width=50 height=55]http://www.graphicsgrotto.com/animatedgifs/stickfigures/images/agstickfigures1.gif[/img]

@e36991:

Agreed that my analogy is flawed. Lol. I think in pictures so when I try to explain things I grab at the nearest sample. :-) okay. But I hope you can also see that this DNA can of course not open the cabinet. There were times Jesus was unable to perform miracles because the people had no faith. The WORD just goes forth and accomplishes what it will. This is why my question to those who always attack Christ's deity is: are you talking about worshipping the Man Jesus or the Word that he also is, in essence?

And my oh my, I have explained the giving of the Holy Spirit before on NL, using the widow's oil. Cant recall which thread, so I agree with you perfectly. In addition, the pouring out of the oil never reduces the oil in the jar from which it issues. Equal essence, source and destination.

As for your question:
(a) I believe this is plural. It is God in totality hovering over the waters, preparing for creation. This is also the "jar" from which (b) below is poured. The SPIRIT of God is God the Father, His Word and the divine being (b) that we now know as the Holy Spirit. Together, they declared "Let us make man in our image",

(b) This is the outpouring of the (a) above as a help for Christians.

(c) The way I understand this, is like these are "partitions" (sigh, im a geek) or compartments that can be filled up when (b) is received into your own spirit. In this wise, your own spirit would be considered compartmentalized.

The Spirit of God and the spirits of God are the same person; God the Spirit. The plural is more an indication of His completeness, fullness. Jesus Christ is the One with Spirit without measure, in fullness.
As to Joagbaje, i think it's a subtle tactic he and his kind are used to. It's to create attention. Anything out of the ordinary tends to turn heads, it's a human quest for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

@InesQor & Image123

Thanks for the contributions. Agree with yall, totally

I usually refer the spirits of God to different flavours that can be perceived. Perception like in tasting

Now all these flavours are present and can be perceived (i.e. tasted) in the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Whole Spirit)

It is like having a fruit but able to taste an apple flavour, an orange flavour, a banana flavour, a strawberry flavour etc when eating it.

Having and tasting every or all fruits flavour in one complete fruit - dare I say, the holy fruit 

The Seven Spirits

"And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5).

These seven Spirits of God at His throne are also mentioned in Revelation 1:4; 3:1; and 5:6, where they are further called the "seven eyes" of the Lamb.  Although angels are called "ministering spirits" (Hebrews 1:14), they apparently are always called angels in Revelation, so it seems likely that these seven "Spirits of God" actually refer to a seven-fold descriptive manifestation of the character of God’s Holy Spirit, "sent forth into all the earth" (Revelation 5:6).

There are, in fact, seven such designations recorded in the earlier books of the New Testament.  These are as follows:

1.Spirit of Truth.  "When He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13).

2.Spirit of Holiness. "Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord . . . declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness" (Romans 1:3,4).
3.Spirit of Faith.  "We having the same Spirit of faith . . . believe, and therefore speak" (II Corinthians 4:13).

4.Spirit of Wisdom.  "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ . . . may give unto you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him" (Ephesians 1:17).

5.Spirit of Power.  "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind" (II Timothy 1:7).

6.Spirit of Grace.  "Of how much sorer punishment . . . shall he be thought worthy, who . . . hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:29).

7.Spirit of Glory.  "If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, . . . the Spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you" (I Peter 4:14). HMM

I am still waiting for our dear pastor to expatiate on his statement and possibly use some bible passages to "convince" me.

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

The seven spirits of God mentioned in the book of revelations refers to the seven arch angels who stand in God's presence and not to the Holy spirit.

What Oladeegbu posted are sme attributes of the holy spirit which are definitely more than seven in number.The piece was sourced from Pastor Joyce Meyer

chukwudi44:


I am still waiting for our dear pastor to expatiate on his statement and possibly use some bible passages to "convince" me.

@^^^

What would you do

1) Bury head in the sand and hope this will blow away
2) Dug heels in and weather the storm
3) Play the ignorance is bliss card
4) Feign ignorance of request and so refuse to respond
5) Bite the bullet, come out guns blazing with grit teeth, unrepentant
6) Eat the humble pie, then with hands up, admit making a boo-boo

make all blow away in the name of Jesus !

chukwudi
Where did you see that God has seven arch angels?

Image123:


chukwudi
Where did you see that God has seven arch angels?

@^^^

The hunter becomes the hunted - The predator becomes the prey

Nothing goes past Image123

If God Father = God Son = God Holy Spirit, how can the Holy Spirit be "banned" or "absent" from Heaven?

But I think what Jo was trying to say here was that the sphere of influence of the HS is directed toward here rather than there. Still wrong because God (HS) is not limited anyplace but it was likely just an allegory and I think he can be forgiven for that.

Meanwhile, me too would like to see Chukwudi44 face Image123's poser.

This Image123 is rapidly becoming NL's mobile policeman abi na EFCC.

@chukwudi
I don't know why you have to create a new thread. Instead of simply asking for explanation,
The holyspirit has Gods attribute omnipresence , omnipotence and omniscience. God the father never leaves his throne, bit his presence is everywhere  by the agency of the holyspirit.  While Jesus christ was one the earth he was the only person that had the indwelling presence of the holy spirit . Others could not receive the holy spirit because they were not born again. When Jesus received the holy spirit, he came into christ in  person from that day. When Jesus finished his ministry, he promise us of the coming of the holyspirit. In the church.to stay and abide with the church.

John 14:16-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17[ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The holy spirit house address presently is inside of me.even though he has omnipotence. He answers to the name of Jesus. Where ever two or three shall gather in his name.

Angels don't need the holy spirit in heaven. Saints in heaven don't need the holy spirit. Jesus does not need the holy spirit. He is here with us. This is where the action is. Not in heaven.

He is the one restraining evil on the earth through the church. Restraining even the Antichrist until the holy spirit with the church leaves the earth. That's when the Antichrist will be made manifest.

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth[ will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Where did you see that God has seven arch angels?

This is a fact many christians are unaware of ,there are actually Seven arch angels in heaven,three were named in the canonised bible like Micheal,Gabriel and Raphael others like Uriel and Jeremiel were named in non-canonical books like Enoch and 2nd Esdras.

The actual number of seven were first given by the arch angel raphael in the book of tobit 12

tobit 12 :11-15

11 I have already told you that a king's secret ought to be kept, but the things God does should be told to everyone. Now I will reveal to you the full truth and keep nothing back.12 (C)Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, I was the one who brought your prayers into his glorious presence. I did the same thing each time you buried the dead.13 On the day you got up from the table without eating your meal in order to bury that corpse, God sent me to test you.14 But he also sent me to cure you and to rescue your daughter-in-law, Sarah, from her troubles.15 (D)I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve him


It was also repeated in the book of Revelation 8 :2


2And I saw (B)the seven angels who stand before God, and seven (C)trumpets were given to them

I don't know why you have to create a new thread. Instead of simply asking for explanation,
The holyspirit has Gods attribute omnipresence , omnipotence and omniscience

Pastor Joe!!! Pastor Joe!! Pastor Joe!!!. how many times did I call you,you never cease to amaze me.You just posted here that the holy spirit is not in heaven at they same time you are ascribing ominipresence to him, don't you think You are contracdicting yourself ?

When Jesus received the holy spirit, he came into christ in person from that day

This is pure heresy and a regurgitation of the gnostic heresies of the seond century which claimed Jesus only became God on the day of his baptism.

Right from the time of his conception in the womb of the blessed vigin Mary ,he was already God.Jeus has always been in contact with the hly spirit right from the begining of existence through his conception to his ascension in heaven.

Angels don't need the holy spirit in heaven. Saints in heaven don't need the holy spirit. Jesus does not need the holy spirit. He is here with us. This is where the action is. Not in heaven.

This is your own personal opinion,it has no scriptural basis

Where did you see that God has seven arch angels?

this might also help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Archangels

where else do you think he would be otherthan here on earth
John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

then in Acts 2
1 ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Just like Jesus ", ye err because ye know not the scripture, "

^^ So what if the Holy Spirit abides with us forever? Does that then mean He has been banned from Heaven? Would you say then that when you die, the Holy Spirit will be buried with you since He is with you forever?  What manner of thought processes produces this tripe? Absolute thinkless - ness!

Please answer us then

(1) If 2, 000 people become christians tomorrow and receive the Holy Spirit, where will that Holy Spirit come from?

a] Heaven (God, Christ and the Holy Spirit's official domain)
b] Floating around homeless on the earth like an Abiku
c] Inside Chris Embassy

(2) If the Holy Spirit is God, AND you say it is omnipresent, how come it is only on earth?

The the moronic DAFT idea that Jesus became Christ the day He received the Holy Spirit  This is more than idiocy- it is insanity. The BIBLE SAYS - "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was GOD!" "He came unto His own and they knew Him not." "He was manifested in the Flesh."

Yet you are telling us we are to believe that the WORD only became Christ when He was baptised directly contrary to GOD's OWN WORD that says Jesus was GOD from the beginning, 

What exactly is wrong that makes it so difficult to accept that pastor chris can be wrong? Is He God? Why not stop assailing us with this undefendable tripe that makes you have to start saying rubbish because it shown as nonsense? Rubbish served with insult!

And what is it with this solidarity issue that no matter what Joagbaje says, people jump in to support him. At times, adults should have their trousers taken down and a horse-whip applied to their bare bottoms.

^^^^^^
So what's your point ? Is he in heaven or on earth ? nobody is interested in these abuses

nuclearboy:

b] Floating around homeless on the earth like an Abiku

Lol! I really love your sense of humour, egbon mi atata!

The the moronic DAFT idea that Jesus became Christ the day He received the Holy Spirit  This is more than idiocy- it is insanity.

. . . But I earnestly implore you - and this i say as a bible student - to consider the thought that the word "christ" means "anointed one" or "messiah" of sorts - and as such is different from his role as the word of God, son  of God, or God.

Thus, becoming "christ" is only a manifestation to humanity as the "anointed one" designated for us.

Please consider that carefully and objectively - When did he receive his anointing?

CAVEAT[size=5pt]; You know say I no belif all dis tin, na jus analysis from my past incarnation as a Christian, although I know say na false christian you go call me.[/size]

chukwudi44:

This is a fact many christians are unaware of ,there are actually Seven arch angels in heaven,three were named in the canonised bible like Micheal,Gabriel and Raphael others like Uriel and Jeremiel were named in non-canonical books like Enoch and 2nd Esdras.

The actual number of seven were first given by the arch angel raphael in the book of tobit 12

tobit 12 :11-15

11 I have already told you that a king's secret ought to be kept, but the things God does should be told to everyone. Now I will reveal to you the full truth and keep nothing back.12 (C)Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, I was the one who brought your prayers into his glorious presence. I did the same thing each time you buried the dead.13 On the day you got up from the table without eating your meal in order to bury that corpse, God sent me to test you.14 But he also sent me to cure you and to rescue your daughter-in-law, Sarah, from her troubles.15 (D)I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve him


It was also repeated in the book of Revelation 8 :2


2And I saw (B)[b]the seven angels who stand before God.

Question again is "Where did you see that God has seven [b]arch[/b]angels". There are so many figures standing before God just in Revelation only (you may check Revelation 5v6; 7v9,11 and 20v12 for some examples).
In your words to Joagbaje, i'll say "This is your own personal opinion,it has no scriptural basis"

@DS:

I respect your non-belief and truth is that in this case, what really matters is mine and Jo-boy's beliefs. Since we both subscribe (at least in mouth if not deed), its us in judgment.

You will notice the windbag made NO attempt to answer the questions. He just deftly side-stepped the meat of the matter now he's being called out and tried to turn this into an emotional issue. I can just see his mentors, the Pharisees gnasking their teeth when Jesus called them hypocrites and white-washed coffins.

As to the Christ thingy, I use the word interchangably with His overall purpose on earth. Being something and one day officially manifesting it is what we're about. Christ ALWAYS was what He is today. That is the Biblical position. It is deliberate twistings like this that ensure Christians are seen as deluded. The Gospel is quite simple. But if they don't find complications to insert in scripture, followership will dwindle and so will income.

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent and thus is in heaven whist also being on earth. Except of course, Jo's belief is that chris is the HS. Which would not suprise me

We should not forget the foundation of this discussion. Chukwudi says holy Mary and saints in heaven are praying for "us" by the holy spirit. I said the holyspirit is with the church here on earth and nit in heaven.

So we should gave the background in mind. The holy spirit is omnipresent but his presence doesn't show in every place. He manifest now through the name of christ. Saints in heaven don't need the power of the holy spirit.

Joagbaje:


We should not forget the foundation of this discussion. Chukwudi says holy Mary and saints in heaven are praying for "us" by the holy spirit. 

I said the holyspirit is with the church here on earth and nit in heaven.

So we should gave the background in mind. The holy spirit is omnipresent but his presence doesn't show in every place.

He manifest now through the name of christ. Saints in heaven don't need the power of the holy spirit.

@Joagbaje

Ah-ha, so that was what all this was about 

Anyways, immigration is the passing or coming into a country to which one is not native for the purpose of permanent residence, isnt it?

Without the necessary papers (e.g. passport, citizenship etc) to show when asked, one is deemed an illegal immigrant

It needs to be understood that a spirit on earth without a body too is deemed an immigrant operating illegally

The prerequisite for operating legally on earth is a body

Evil spirits know this, which is why the request was made to be casted into swines (i.e. though filthy, at least its a body)

instead of merely getting cast out in to the elements

The Holy Spirit is no different to other spirits in the sense that it too requires a body for it to operate legally on earth.

Here is where the church - "body of Christ" becomes relevant

The body of Christ is endued with power by receiving the Holy Spirit

The holy spirit is omnipresent but his presence doesn't show in every place

Pastor Joe,do you mind describing the meaning of the word ominipresent

Joagbaje:



He is the one restraining evil on the earth through the church. Restraining even the Antichrist until the holy spirit with the church leaves the earth. That's when the Antichrist will be made manifest.

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth[ will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This is the wrongest statement I have heard this month! I must say you have a totally wrong understanding of what 2 Thess 2 is talking about. I dont even know where to start. But If I may ask, Who is the Anti- Christ?

chukwudi44:

This is a fact many christians are unaware of ,there are actually Seven arch angels in heaven,three were named in the canonised bible like Micheal,Gabriel and Raphael others like Uriel and Jeremiel were named in non-canonical books like Enoch and 2nd Esdras.

The actual number of seven were first given by the arch angel raphael in the book of tobit 12

tobit 12 :11-15

11 I have already told you that a king's secret ought to be kept, but the things God does should be told to everyone. Now I will reveal to you the full truth and keep nothing back.12 (C)Tobit, when you and Sarah prayed to the Lord, I was the one who brought your prayers into his glorious presence. I did the same thing each time you buried the dead.13 On the day you got up from the table without eating your meal in order to bury that corpse, God sent me to test you.14 But he also sent me to cure you and to rescue your daughter-in-law, Sarah, from her troubles.15 (D)I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand in the glorious presence of the Lord, ready to serve him

At this point no Sound Christian should even bother to debate with this guy further?

At this point no Sound Christian should even bother to debate with this guy further

What makes a person a sound christian? You ve only shown you have know knwlege about how the books of the bible were decided