OtemAtum:
If Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Steve Jobs, Pythagoras, Thomas Edison and millions of philosophers and scientists who lived their lives without Jesus and invented all the useful things of the world right now hear you say this, they will burst into "tears of laughter" in their various "heavens". So the person who invented Light Bulb and the one who invented Pythagoras Theorem have lived a wasted life while you who is not known for any great invention have lived a productive life abi? Clap for yasef ;

This is the reason why Jehovah must remain in his spiritual cage, for humanity to speedily become liberated from mind slavery. Peace.

If the likes of John D Rockefeller, Michael Faraday, Galileo Galilei,Ben Carson hear you they will weep over your foolishness

Bacteriologist:


Any life lived with belief in Jesus is wasted.

Correct statement.

mmsen:


Computer software has code that can be copied, verified and VIEWED.

You've never seen code written in a book?

Where is your proof of the spiritual realm? And why do so many of you people who claim religious belief lack integrity?

You've forgotten that computer codes within a machine is different from the pseudo code written in paper. Within the computer machine, codes are expressed in binary states of magnetism, electic charge, optics, etc.

Let's test your level of intelligence and critical thinking. Given a computer, show without another software program that softwares exist in the computer? (You are permitted to even take out the HDD, RAM, ROM etc and subject it to any form of physical examinations)

mmsen:


You people reason like drug addicts.

Says one who believes in talking donkeys and talking snakes. Brain dead religious bigot.

onlyforchrist:


So what do you call the instructions that makes the so called softwares work? are they invincible like your god?

Are the paper codes what run the computer?
Are codes and data not existing in a computer? If they are existing, I've just given you the chance of proving that the softwares exist in a computer if you aren't privy to how the algorithms was presented on paper!

In other words, proof using any physical means that computer codes exist in computers?

Do you think it's safe to conclude that computer codes(softwares) don't exist because they can't be physically proven?

spartan117:

If the likes of John D Rockefeller, Michael Faraday, Galileo Galilei,Ben Carson hear you they will weep over your foolishness

Explain this please. Do you even know that Galileo Galilee was almost killed by the christians for being wiser than Jehovah your god? Pls go and find out.

mmsen:


You people reason like drug addicts.

True

OtemAtum:
Explain this please. Do you even know that Galileo Galilee was almost killed by the christians for being wiser than Jehovah your god? Pls go and find out.

There are 3 types of Christians:

Those who practice Christianity religiously and would attack anything that they see as a threat to their religion, usually for selfish motives.this kind lacks basic understanding of God's word.(unfortunately many fall under this category)

Then there are those who acknowledge the sovereignty of God and have learnt that science is simply a God given tool to help mankind.
This type go on to make scientific breakthroughs it takes a Christian with this understanding to separate Siamese twins as Dr Ben Carson did or Galileo Galilei to have the wisdom to make his numerous astrological discoveries.

Then there is the 3rd type of Christian, hahaha!(*excited*) he goes by many names, but was originally called "Christian" which translates Christ-Like.
This man has the spirit of the Sovereign God living inside of him he has the power to heal the sick, raise the dead and work miracles. This man lives on this earth as an ambassador for Christ.

This man does not live by or walk by his senses but by faith because he has learnt the most basic spiritual law "The spiritual controls the physical" so when unbelievers, atheists and haters of the sovereign God speak against heavenly dignitaries, he looks at them with pity because they have been deceived by the devil and are simply pawns in a game they don't even know is being played.

Though this man is not perfect, he continually strives towards becoming more christ-like. He may fall many times but like a child learning to walk, he picks himself up and keeps pressing on, knowing fully well that there is a loving father there to help him whenever he calls. It's the best feeling in the world, far sweeter than sex,wine and other pleasures of the flesh

Sorry 4 the long writeup I got excited lol.

Bacteriologist:


Says one who believes in talking donkeys and talking snakes. Brain dead religious bigot.

Where did I ever claim such?

All of your religions are nonsense.

P.S.
I realise that I wrote the wrong response to the wrong person.

shadeyinka:

You've forgotten that computer codes within a machine is different from the pseudo code written in paper. Within the computer machine, codes are expressed in binary states of magnetism, electic charge, optics, etc.

Let's test your level of intelligence and critical thinking. Given a computer, show without another software program that softwares exist in the computer? (You are permitted to even take out the HDD, RAM, ROM etc and subject it to any form of physical examinations)

You are talking about a made up realm, concocted in the mind of imbeciles but think that you are in a position to test anybody's intelligence?

Work on yours first.

And you just wrote a bunch of rubbish up there. As to be expected.

mmsen:


You are talking about a made up realm, concocted in the mind of imbeciles but think that you are in a position to test anybody's intelligence?

Work on yours first.

And you just wrote a bunch of rubbish up there. As to be expected.

Throwing up temper tantrums just because you want to avoid a little critical thinking. I don't blame you; you like to Brey without substance or content

shadeyinka:

I don't understand how some people can be so myopic. There are two separate laws that govern the universe. The physical laws, and the spiritual laws.

Spiritual laws will not quench your physical thirst and hunger for food no matter how spiritual you are. And no matter how rich you are, it doesn't absolve you from spiritual consequences.

Corona virus is physical and unless the physical laws are broken, it would require a physical solution

We need evidence to believe that the spiritual laws...
This world can be and has been explained solely by physical laws. Although, we may not know everything yet.

shadeyinka:

You've forgotten that computer codes within a machine is different from the pseudo code written in paper. Within the computer machine, codes are expressed in binary states of magnetism, electic charge, optics, etc.

Let's test your level of intelligence and critical thinking. Given a computer, show without another software program that softwares exist in the computer? (You are permitted to even take out the HDD, RAM, ROM etc and subject it to any form of physical examinations)

A computer is made up two interdependent parts: the hardware and the software.

A computer without a software is useless and we cannot use a software without the hardware. Hope i answered your question.

shadeyinka:

I don't understand how some people can be so myopic. There are two separate laws that govern the universe. The physical laws, and the spiritual laws.

Spiritual laws will not quench your physical thirst and hunger for food no matter how spiritual you are. And no matter how rich you are, it doesn't absolve you from spiritual consequences.

Corona virus is physical and unless the physical laws are broken, it would require a physical solution

Spiritual laws are just a figment of your imagination. They have always been.
Have you , or has anyone you know ever been to the spiritual universe ?
Can you name one eminent authority on spiritual laws ?
Can you experiment and demonstrate one just one spiritual law ? Spiritual laws are the ones you make up at it suites you ?
In fact, most of what we know today about the laws of nature were once considered spiritual laws, until they were studied , and discovered to be in consonance with the immutable laws of physics.

When I hear people, mostly African religiotards , talk about spiritual this and spiritual that, I always want to ask of what use are the so called spiritual laws and spiritual Mumbo jumbo in a physical world ?
Can someone please attempt to answer that question for me.

Fash20:


A computer is made up two interdependent parts: the hardware and the software.

A computer without a software is useless and we cannot use a software without the hardware. Hope i answered your question.

Correction.
A computer software and its hardware are not wholly independent parts. They have to be compatible. In fact, both have to be organized to work together. One is not a mystery unto the other. Both can malfunction, both can be diagnosed, both can be adjusted or fixed.

The same occurs in nature. The DNA is the biological software that charts the character and course of evollution and development of biological species.
In non-biological objects, we have the atomic and molecular structures as the software that determines the forms, shapes and properties of objects.

Therfore, your so called spiritual world is in no way analogous to the relationship between computer hardware and software.

plaetton:

Correction.
A computer software and its hardware are not wholly independent parts. They have to be compatible. In fact, both have to be organized to work together. One is not a mystery unto the other. Both can malfunction, both can be diagnosed, both can be adjusted or fixed.

The same occurs in nature. The DNA is the biological software that charts the character and course of evollution and development of biological species.
In non-biological objects, we have the atomic and molecular structures as the software that determines the forms, shapes and properties of objects.

Therfore, your so called spiritual world is in no way analogous to the relationship between computer hardware and software.

Your analogy is still wrong. Most physical phenomenon are explainable by physical law with no need for spiritual laws... Those that are not explainable are due to the limitation of our knowledge of science for now.

Fash20:


Your analogy is still wrong. Most physical phenomenon are explainable by physical law with no need for spiritual laws... Those that are not explainable are due to the limitation of our knowledge of science for now.

There are no such things as spiritual laws. It has NO definition.
You know why ?
There is no single thing you can point to point out as a manifestation of spiritual law.

Spiritual laws are nonsense people pick from their rear ends to try to cope with natural phenomena that they do not understand.

plaetton:


There are no such things as spiritual laws. It has NO definition.
You know why ?
There is no single thing you can point to point out as a manifestation of spiritual law.

Spiritual laws are nonsense people pick from their rear ends to try to cope with natural phenomena that they do not understand.

True talk

plaetton:

Spiritual laws are just a figment of your imagination. They have always been.
Have you , or has anyone you know ever been to the spiritual universe ?
Can you name one eminent authority on spiritual laws ?
Can you experiment and demonstrate one just one spiritual law ? Spiritual laws are the ones you make up at it suites you ?
In fact, most of what we know today about the laws of nature were once considered spiritual laws, until they were studied , and discovered to be in consonance with the immutable laws of physics.

When I hear people, mostly African religiotards , talk about spiritual this and spiritual that, I always want to ask of what use are the so called spiritual laws and spiritual Mumbo jumbo in a physical world ?
Can someone please attempt to answer that question for me.

Have you ever seen a software code within a computer?
See your lies in bold!

Fash20:


A computer is made up two interdependent parts: the hardware and the software.

A computer without a software is useless and we cannot use a software without the hardware. Hope i answered your question.

You have tried but where I am going is that it is impossible by any known physical method to detect, measure or quantify the software in a computer except with another software. The fact that softwares can't be physically detected does not imply that softwares are figments of imaginations.

There is a software part of a human being. Without which you are just an assemblage of dead atoms. Your soul gives you consciousness and your spirit gives you a spiritual nature and consciousness.

shadeyinka:

Have you ever seen a software code within a computer?
See your lies in bold!

Not an intelligent question.

Do I need to see a software code ?
A computer software is just a series binary instructions to perform calculations, based on mathematical formulas. Even you can create one.

Likewise, Have you ever see an electric current produced by a generator running through the wires ?
But you see the effects, don't you ?
Have you ever seen gravity ? But can see it's effects. We can measure and calibrate it.

Fash20:


We need evidence to believe that the spiritual laws...
This world can be and has been explained solely by physical laws. Although, we may not know everything yet.

You need physical evidence!?
It's not possible: even when someone rises up from the dead, it wouldn't convince you.

You need your own evidence, seek and you will find

plaetton:


Not an intelligent question.

Do I need to see a software code ?
A computer software is just a series binary instructions to perform calculations, based on mathematical formulas. Even you can create one.

Likewise, Have you ever see an electric current produced by a generator running through the wires ?
But you see the effects, don't you ?
Have you ever seen gravity ? But can see it's effects. We can measure and calibrate it.

Of course, I do program softwares for computers and microcontrollers. We know they exist because we designed the hardware to accept the binary instructions and storage of data. In the event that we don't, is that evidence enough to conclude that softwares don't exist in machines?

You forget that humans as a subset of living beings are like the most advance AI machines. Atheism says in other words, " since souls/spirits cannot be seen, they don't exist.

Have you seen the effect of the AI program of the physical bodies of living things?

shadeyinka:

Of course, I do program softwares for computers and microcontrollers. We know they exist because we designed the hardware to accept the binary instructions and storage of data. In the event that we don't, is that evidence enough to conclude that softwares don't exist in machines?

You forget that humans as a subset of living beings are like the most advance AI machines. Atheism says in other words, " since souls/spirits cannot be seen, they don't exist.

Have you seen the effect of the AI program of the physical bodies of living things?

I'm not sure how we got from spiritual laws to souls.
But , you are trying to say or imply that computer software are analogous to souls or spiritual laws that supposedly underpins all physical phenomena.
And I say,
Hogwash !
We can talk of computer software because we can define them, We can create them, cut and paste them, improve them , we know how they work, their compatibilities, and their limitations.
Therefore, there is no debate about computer software exists or not.

Spirit, soul, etc, no matter how well they sound in our ears and how special it makes feel to believe in them , are simply mental constructions, projections of our psychological need to exist beyond death. They cannot even be defined, let alone properly explained without pulling out nonsense from one's rear end.
Any notion of a phenomenon that falls outside the laws of physics are nothing but fantasies.

Now, on the other hand , you are convinced that such exists, then the onus is you to demonstrate or at least design some kind of physical or even mind experiment to show.

shadeyinka:

Of course, I do program softwares for computers and microcontrollers. We know they exist because we designed the hardware to accept the binary instructions and storage of data. In the event that we don't, is that evidence enough to conclude that softwares don't exist in machines?

You forget that humans as a subset of living beings are like the most advance AI machines. Atheism says in other words, " since souls/spirits cannot be seen, they don't exist.

Have you seen the effect of the AI program of the physical bodies of living things?

The problem with believing in phenomena that has NO mathematical corollaries is that it is not testable , therefore , any and everyone can pull any stuff out of their axxs and call it spiritual this and spiritual that.
People wake up in the morning and claim revelation from this god or that god.
Humanity has been, and done that for the better half of our social evolution. And we cannot ever go back.

The history of beliefs over the ages is there to teach us that we have been believing and practicing all manners of nonsense as we eagerly tried to make sense of life and existence.
As our knowledge of our universe increases , we trash old beliefs and replace them with much clearer understanding.
Just look at the trajectory of human development in science, technology, healthcare, tolerance and freedom ever since we began to emasculated churchmen , seers and witchdoctors as arbiters of existential matters.

plaetton:


The problem with believing in phenomena that has NO mathematical corollaries is that it is not testable , therefore , any and everyone can pull any stuff out of their axxs and call it spiritual this and spiritual that.
People wake up in the morning and claim revelation from this god or that god.
Humanity has been, and done that for the better half of our social evolution. And we cannot ever go back.

The history of beliefs over the ages is there to teach us that we have been believing and practicing all manners of nonsense as we eagerly tried to make sense of life and existence.
As our knowledge of our universe increases , we trash old beliefs and replace them with much clearer understanding.
Just look at the trajectory of human development in science, technology, healthcare, tolerance and freedom ever since we began to emasculated churchmen , seers and witchdoctors as arbiters of existential matters.

But you forget that these same churchmen you despise where the first set of scientists and researchers that thought us much of what we now know in science? (They taught theology, medicine, philosophy and Latin)

1. Do you believe in the scientific impossibility that everything came from nothing?

2. Do you believe that humans are no run by a kind of AI software?

3. Do you think one can open up a computer and locate the software using physical processes?

Spirituality isn't anti-science!
Spirituality complements science and vice versa!

plaetton:


I'm not sure how we got from spiritual laws to souls.
But , you are trying to say or imply that computer software are analogous to souls or spiritual laws that supposedly underpins all physical phenomena.
And I say,
Hogwash !
We can talk of computer software because we can define them, We can create them, cut and paste them, improve them , we know how they work, their compatibilities, and their limitations.
Therefore, there is no debate about computer software exists or not.

Computers and programs are not subject to debates because WE created them. Unfortunately, we didn't create ourselves nor any of the living beings a around us. Thus as scientists who try to understand the workings of creation, we can only rely on our experience.

plaetton:

Spirit, soul, etc, no matter how well they sound in our ears and how special it makes feel to believe in them , are simply mental constructions, projections of our psychological need to exist beyond death. They cannot even be defined, let alone properly explained without pulling out nonsense from one's rear end.
Any notion of a phenomenon that falls outside the laws of physics are nothing but fantasies.

Now, on the other hand , you are convinced that such exists, then the onus is you to demonstrate or at least design some kind of physical or even mind experiment to show.

I've defined Soul/Spirit countless times on this forum in a scientifically understandable terms.

Soul:
The soul is the software that gives you consciousness and identity. It is the center of your Will, Volition and Intellect. Your soul interfaces with your Body or your Spirit. Your soul is the one you call I, Me, Myself. Your Personal Identity

Spirit:
The Spirit is the invisible equivalence of your physical body. It is that which connects you as an identity to your creator for your creator isn't physical but a spirit. Your Spirit is your spirit Identity

Body:
Your body is that with which you interact with the physical world.
Your Body is your physical Identity

Do these have physical proofs?
NO!
Just like a software in a computer does not have any physical proof.

Since softwares are physically not demonstrable, does it imply that it is a fantasy?

You don't demonstrate the spiritual: you experience it!

shadeyinka:

But you forget that these same churchmen you despise where the first set of scientists and researchers that thought us much of what we now know in science? (They taught theology, medicine, philosophy and Latin)

1. Do you believe in the scientific impossibility that everything came from nothing?

2. Do you believe that humans are no run by a kind of AI software?

3. Do you think one can open up a computer and locate the software using physical processes?

Spirituality isn't anti-science!
Spirituality complements science and vice versa!

My friend , spiritually isn't anything.
It is the nonsense that you apply to anything you don't understand.
It is the elixir of the ignorant and small and lazy thinkers.
Scientific rationalism is hard work for some.

In science we observation, experimentation and analysis. These are the methodologies underpinning scientific investigation of natural phenomena.

Kindly give is an idea of how you investigate or analyze spiritual phenomena.
If you cannot do this, then you have agree that spiritualism is only confined to the mind that conjures it.

shadeyinka:

Computers and programs are not subject to debates because WE created them. Unfortunately, we didn't create ourselves nor any of the living beings a around us. Thus as scientists who try to understand the workings of creation, we can only rely on our experience.


I've defined Soul/Spirit countless times on this forum in a scientifically understandable terms.

Soul:
The soul is the software that gives you consciousness and identity. It is the center of your Will, Volition and Intellect. Your soul interfaces with your Body or your Spirit.
Spirit:
The Spirit is the invisible equivalence of your physical body. It is that which connects you as an identity to your creator for your creator isn't physical but a spirit.

Do these have physical proofs?
NO!
Just like a software in a computer does not have any physical proof.

Since softwares are physically not demonstrable, does it imply that it is a fantasy?

You don't demonstrate the spiritual: you experience it!

See what I mean?
You are pulling stuff out of your axxs trying to define soul and spirit. Your definitions are the typical make-it-up-as-you-go phenomenon.
I can also pull stuff out of my axxs to give you my own definition.
This is the characteristic of imaginary things. They can be anything you want them to be.

I hope you're getting my point.

plaetton:


My friend , spiritually isn't anything.
It is the nonsense that you apply to anything you don't understand.
It is the elixir of the ignorant and small and lazy thinkers.
Scientific rationalism is hard work for some.

In science we observation, experimentation and analysis. These are the methodologies underpinning scientific investigation of natural phenomena.

Kindly give is an idea of how you investigate or analyze spiritual phenomena.
If you cannot do this, then you have agree that spiritualism is only confined to the mind that conjures it.

Kindly give is an idea of how you investigate or analyze spiritual phenomena.
using physical means the software in a computer.
If you cannot do this, then you have agreed that spiritualism computer softwares is only confined to the mind that conjures it.

plaetton:

See what I mean?
You are pulling stuff out of your axxs trying to define soul and spirit. Your definitions are the typical make-it-up-as-you-go phenomenon.
I can also pull stuff out of my axxs to give you my own definition.
This is the characteristic of imaginary things. They can be anything you want them to be.

I hope you're getting my point.

You said something cannot be defined and I gave you a description that the weakest scientist can understand. Now you accuse me of having a "make-it-up-as-you-go " definition.

This is simply an "ostrich" defence mechanism. Bury your head in the sand hoping the truth will go away.

I expect a critical thinker to shred these definitions to pieces.

shadeyinka:

You said something cannot be defined and I gave you a description that the weakest scientist can understand. Now you accuse me of having a "make-it-up-as-you-go " definition.

This is simply an "ostrich" defence mechanism. Bury your head in the sand hoping the truth will go away.

I expect a critical thinker to shred these definitions to pieces.

My point is that you defined it to suit you.
You picked words and stitched them together, and then viola!!
I cannot shred the definitions because, as you correctly admitted , there is exists ZERO proof. How can I posdinle shred your definition when your definition is not anchored on anything that we can put our hands? .
No numbers, no statistics, no equations, even if abstract .
Since there exists no measures, no standards for knowing or studying the spiritual,The only we can have a discussion about the spiritual is by pitting your imagination against mine. That would us no more little children.