@kcJazz, My cousin's social study teacher can barely speak good English, let alone spell correctly. She teaches a class of over 60 students in one of the private schools. When asked of what he learnt in her schools, he tells you that he tried to cram as much of what she said and he proceeds to regurgitate as much of it he can. When asked if he understands any of it, he repeats that it is not important for him to, all that matters is he be able to regurgitate all the same come exam time.  

So, are you certain that teacher got proper training as you claim from the NTC? lol

@ Chiogo,

Nigerian Math is way more advanced than Yankee or Britico match.

Of course after doing Matrices and Advanced Calculus (which we did in SS1 Further Maths), why wouldn't you appreciate your American teacher more for giving you simple algebra?

Its nothing to do with Naija, its just that you are slow with figures and prefer 1+1. Hehehe.

Naija Maths is the best (after China). I can say that anywhere cos I still met my SS1 Further Maths in 2nd Year University.

Kobojunkie:

@kcJazz,  My cousin's social study teacher can barely speak good English, let alone spell correctly. She teaches a class of over 60 students in one of the private schools. When asked of what he learnt in her schools, he tells you that he tried to cram as much of what she said and he proceeds to regurgitate as much of it he can. When asked if he understands any of it, he repeats that it is not important for him to, all that matters is he be able to regurgitate all the same come exam time.  

So, are you certain that teacher got proper training as you claim from the NTC? lol

No I don't think so. The NTC has its own problem too. But is is set up to admit those who can't get into the University. But I feel we can't sack all teachers to fix this problem. Instead the renewable license administered by a private body supported by PTAs can help them sharpen skills and new teaching methods every year. If you get the grades you continue. What you said about your cousin is true and imagine that teacher marking WAEC scripts, how do you expect them to even mark right. I have my suspicion that the markers might have a problem marking even with marking schemes given to them.

eku_bear:

^-- Are the teachers at the private schools bad? Probably not eh, since if they were nobody would spend their money there?

If so, then this suggests a fix.

All private schools are not equal. I attended a private university in Nigeria and I can say some of my lecturers could warrant some kind of fee refund lol. Most people prefer public schools rather than private employment, so the field is tough for private owners and they could be forced to cut corners. I respect catholic private schools though.

kcjazz:

All private schools are not equal. I attended a private university in Nigeria and I can say some of my lecturers could warrant some kind of fee refund lol. Most people prefer public schools rather than private employment, so the field is tough for private owners and they could be forced to cut corners. I respect catholic private schools though.

I see. Still though, I suspect that the average quality of private schools is far higher. Is this fair to say?

Regarding the catholic schools, agreed. There is this one that many of the best students I've seen from Nigeria seem to come from. . . Loyola Jesuit, I think? I'm overall pretty impressed by the quality, it seems comparable to the best ones in the US. Not too expensive either, from what I hear.

eku_bear:

@chiogo: He was joking, hence the Larry Summers reference.

I'm sure he was, I'm used to SEFAGO and his ways  

Ibime:

@ Chiogo,

Nigerian Math is way more advanced than Yankee or Britico match.

Of course after doing Matrices and Advanced Calculus (which we did in SS1 Further Maths), why wouldn't you appreciate your American teacher more for giving you simple algebra?

Its nothing to do with Naija, its just that you are slow with figures and prefer 1+1. Hehehe.

Naija Maths is the best (after China). I can say that anywhere cos I still met my SS1 Further Maths in 2nd Year University.

Yes, definitely prefer 1+1.  
Nah, didn't even do up to SS1 in naija so I was definitely still dealing with basic math, which they made so complicated. There was no Algebra by itself, it was like trig/algebra/geometry combined into one. I can see why you think it's more advanced when courses that should be taught separately are merged into one. That's why the average Nigerian student learns by cramming a bunch of notes. Here, it's more broken down - geometry, algebra, adv. alg, pre-calc, calc, etc are all taught separately, works for me personally.

Doing HS math in college is normal esp. for ppl who their forte doesn't lie there, the system ensures you revise old materials because let's face it, after HS, most ppl(even ppl who are naturally good at math) usually forget those things. Besides, don't you get placed based on your proficiency level from HS? If you were made to do ALL of what you learned in HS while in college then maybe you didn't do so well in naija.

eku_bear:

I see. Still though, I suspect that the average quality of private schools is far higher. Is this fair to say?

Regarding the catholic schools, agreed. There is this one that many of the best students I've seen from Nigeria seem to come from. . . Loyola Jesuit, I think? I'm overall pretty impressed by the quality, it seems comparable to the best ones in the US. Not too expensive either, from what I hear.

Am guessing Loyola college in Abuja, yeah its a nice catholic school.
Which one is better private/public? I can't really say, maybe the exam data will be a better indicator. Some private schools are well laid out while I have seen some that are terrible. But then, there are more public schools than private. This is why I feel the accreditation process needs to be reviewed and structured.

Whao what could have happened, is the standard of the exam too high for the students

I googled, Loyola seems to be one of the best in Nigeria, if not the best.  The price for what they provide (N 650k/ year or so) is probably out of the reach of your average Nigerian though.

There is also an American International School in Abuja, but that is crazy expensive, $16k/year or something for high school.

Schools of this caliber might be good places to start when thinking about how to provide quality education in Nigeria.

Anyway, hope you guys see why not everyone is going to be able to go to college. Looks like providing a quality primary/secondary school education in Nigeria is going to suck away most of the government money available for education. Government realistically will not have any money left over for college. . .

^ Did you get banned?
I really don't believe high cost correlates that much with quality education esp. if we're talking about naija. Let's face it, private schools in naija is just another way for rich kids not to face the reality of the Nigerian education system, imagine going to a fed. govt. school where you're bullied by "seniors", given bad food, etc as opposed to going to somewhere like chrisland filled with "aje-butter" kids like you, where are the bullies and daily torture, which in itself is a distraction? The same with college, I think the best schools in Naija are Public/State ones, on the University level anyway. High school is another thing entirely; in that case, Govt schools would replace "public", which are kinda in two different categories.

SEFAGO:

There are scholarships for WAEC- usually the best three in WAEC during my time. Some people who win the award get like 1 million naira but most sit the SAT and end up leaving Nigeria,

During my time, an organization used to identify brilliant Nigerians in secondary schools and pay to prep them  and sit for the American SAT. Like the best students in QC, Kings College e.t.c.

How far back is your time ? Is this still obtainable today ?

misaac:

True.
So true and I think it is a shame. Cramming does not show mastery of the subject as far as I am concerned. I had a Biology teacher in ss3 who showed the importance of true understanding. His tests were always application based. Apply your understanding to solve the question, don't regurgitate crammed facts. That is one of the greatest problems of Nigerian education-emphasis on cramming.
True again.

If you ask some people who've schooled in North America, some professors make you do same as well (memorizing tutorial assignments); you'd be surprised it's obtainable even in some courses in degree programs. It depends on the tutor. You said you had a good Biology teacher who wasn't like that in Nigeria, so it's nt exclusive to Nigeria. I had some really good tutors in Nigeria too. But that is not to say the Nigerian system is comparably as good. Just disputing the statement that's bolded.

@chiogo: Nabbed by the spam filter  

Are you sure cost doesn't correlate with quality, though? That is usually the way life is. . . the more you pay, the more you get.

^^^ Too many things determine the price. Loyola Jesuit order is an educational brand, supported by the Archdiocese and the Jesuit order. You can get same quality at say CKC or Regina Pacis in Abuja. In Nigeria, more price means more toys for the kids like learning music, French, excursions, fried eggs instead of beans and corn etc On the other hand a well managed Public school especially the boarding schools can also pull off great results. But again only the exam data would be a valid indicator.

kcjazz:

^^^ Too many things determine the price. Loyola Jesuit order is an educational brand, supported by the Archdiocese and the Jesuit order. You can get same quality at say CKC or Regina Pacis in Abuja. In Nigeria, more price means more toys for the kids like learning music, French, excursions, fried eggs instead of beans and corn etc On the other hand a well managed Public school especially the boarding schools can also pull off great results. But again only the exam data would be a valid indicator.

And now we get to the heart of the matter. I've wondered a bit about how effective educational vouchers would be for the Nigerian setting. How effective do you think this solution would be? I guess in conjunction with credible exam data for each school (i.e., no cheating, forging, etc)? I sort of like this idea because Nigerians would get to then vote with their feet. If you don't like your kid's school and think it sucks, you take the voucher money (provided by the state in lieu of the state directly spending money on education) and send him to a private catholic one (for example).

Thoughts on the effectiveness of this in Nigeria?

Also, can you name some of these well managed public schools? Trying to see if any of them have websites and such I can google for.

kcjazz:

No I don't think so. The NTC has its own problem too. But is is set up to admit those who can't get into the University. But I feel we can't sack all teachers to fix this problem. Instead the renewable license administered by a private body supported by PTAs can help them sharpen skills and new teaching methods every year. If you get the grades you continue. What you said about your cousin is true and imagine that teacher marking WAEC scripts, how do you expect them to even mark right. I have my suspicion that the markers might have a problem marking even with marking schemes given to them.

I don't think sacking them would be sensible way to go about solving the problem since it is also the case that we do not have enough teachers to teach our kids at all levels. I am not worried about the marking of WAEC

kcjazz:

All private schools are not equal. I attended a private university in Nigeria and I can say some of my lecturers could warrant some kind of fee refund lol. Most people prefer public schools rather than private employment, so the field is tough for private owners and they could be forced to cut corners. I respect catholic private schools though.

you are right about private schools not being equal and that is why I worry about the current trend -- parents paying an arm and a leg for what they perceive to be better education only not knowing they are probably being ripped off.

How far back is your time ? Is this still obtainable today ?

Probably. The issue is that you have to be amongst the highest in WAEC.

Nigerian Math is way more advanced than Yankee or Britico match.

Of course after doing Matrices and Advanced Calculus (which we did in SS1 Further Maths), why wouldn't you appreciate your American teacher more for giving you simple algebra?

Its nothing to do with Naija, its just that you are slow with figures and prefer 1+1. Hehehe.

Naija Maths is the best (after China). I can say that anywhere cos I still met my SS1 Further Maths in 2nd Year University.

Its advanced in concepts but the depth is shallow. I have to agree with Chiogo. I crammed further math myself for WAEC, and I always thought I was hot at math. But I have figured out that I am really infact good at building alogorithms and might not be really good at the true core of mathematics-proof and application. There are two different things- learning how its done and constructing a proof . The latter is difficult.

The Matrices you are taught in Nigeria is difficult conceptually, but its all an algorithm. The real linear algebra you would take would be based purely on proof and would be significantly more difficult. The similarity between them is nil. What we did in SS1 was Calculus 1 & 2 but on a brief idea of it.

I agree that Nigeria compared to the US and UK has better math. But compared to China, India, Germany, Russinas No Nigerian has won an international math olympiad b4.

^^^ Too many things determine the price. Loyola Jesuit order is an educational brand, supported by the Archdiocese and the Jesuit order. You can get same quality at say CKC or Regina Pacis in Abuja. In Nigeria, more price means more toys for the kids like learning music, French, excursions, fried eggs instead of beans and corn etc On the other hand a well managed Public school especially the boarding schools can also pull off great results. But again only the exam data would be a valid indicator.

I dont know if I agree with this. Loyola Jesuit takes the best best students in Nigeria. It offers scholarship to several Nigerians who cannot afford to come there from all over Nigeria. When you meet someone from loyola 9/10 they were one of the best in their primary school. When i was in school everyones wanted to send their kids to Loyola as a fad. Now that the school has begun to rival Andover in placing kids at Ivies and Oxbridge even more Nigerian parents want their kids to go there. It might be hyped but it delivers.

Loyola Jesuit students get the highest WAEC results, students wreck the SAT and A-levels. Its not an educational brand- the teaching at most catholic schools might be good but those marginal differences are what makes loyola better.

I googled, Loyola seems to be one of the best in Nigeria, if not the best. The price for what they provide (N 650k/ year or so) is probably out of the reach of your average Nigerian though.

They offer scholarships. The people there are academic superstars not all but the majority.

This I disagree with. There is this guy, Kayode Fakinlede (a PhD research chemist somewhere in Jersey) who also writes very good Yoruba educational material. He has spent some time indigenizing scientfic measurements and basic concepts from math into Yoruba (inequalities, exponents, etc.)

Really, I want to c this. However basic concepts like inequalities e.t.c are likely to be explainable in Yoruba. But what about quantum theory, string theory very complex stuff?

@SEFAGO: Yeah, Williams is one of those schools that gives financial aid even to foreign kids with no money. That is the main reason I'd want to realign education even further with the West, to make it easier for Nigerians to study there for free. Btw I'm surprised you know about Thomas Jefferson, I guess you must have spent some time in the DC metro area.

Most top US universities give. Previously very few Nigerians competed for this scholarshiips. Then Loyola got established and started sending kids to Harvard, Caltech, Princeton e.t.c in signifcant numbers. Dont worry lots of loyola kids are getting the scholarships. No need to align anyone with anybody. A large number of people from loyola are also wealthy so if they cannoy crack an Ivy they might try to head to Oxford or Imperial.

Btw I'm surprised you know about Thomas Jefferson, I guess you must have spent some time in the DC metro area.

I was actually going to mention stuyvesant in new york. But thought TJ would be more popular anyways.

It turns out that this not a new problem:

On English language, Aboderin  in 1986 writes: "An analysis of available results from 1964 to 1972 reveals that the percentage of candidates who gained distinction or credit fluctuates between 19% and 24%( Sounds familiar?)while more than 30% of the candidates failed in the English langauge examination each year. T[b]he distinction credit pass fell to about 16% in 1979 while more than 50% failed[/b]. Available reports for 1983 to 1985 also show that performances range from 5.14% to 14.49% at distinction/credit level while failure range from 59.08% to 82.49%.

Why cant we just try a new approach?

Not surprising.

The standards of education have fallen . . . tutors no longer give of their best (due to factors ranging from greed/corruption to meagre remuneration, etc) . . . parents buy certificates/results for their kids (now more than ever) and write their assignments for them . . . students won't bother to read but would rather tread the easiest route to success . . . and generally, good schools are quite expensive these days.

SEFAGO:

Second have you examined the structure of African languages. They are primitive to the core.

Please elaborate on this.

PhysicsMHD:

Please elaborate on this.

I thought SEFAGO goofed a lil there

Very condescending!

SEFAGO:

But what about quantum theory, string theory very complex stuff?

It can be done. Have faith.

Regarding notation, language to describe stuff . . . you simply invent it, just as they did in English/Spanish/etc. This is how most languages work anyway, you build complicated ideas from simpler ones.

Perceived simplicity of the native languages is a red herring, imo.

My objection is mostly due to opportunity cost, not feasibility.

Regarding my idea of "alignment", the idea is to ensure that not only Loyola students (who appear to be the top 2% of people who pass the entrance exams for that school) get access to these opportunities, but hopefully so that others can too.

SEFAGO: Second have you examined the structure of African languages. They are primitive to the core.

PhysicsMHD:

It can be done. Have faith.

There are two major roles that any national language can play. It can feature as a subject in the school curriculum and also as the medium of instruction in other subject. It is in the latter sense that language is being used here. Such language therefore, verbal or nonverbal is a means to an end. It is used to communicate ideas, thought, events etc.,from one person to another. For the language to be useful the person to whom it is spoken should be able to internalise it and understand the message which is central. To the extent that he cannot express his thoughts or ideas neither can he understand most of the messages passed to him through that medium, then such a language can be deemed to be of limited or no use to the person. Imagine what will happen if that person is forced by circumstances to learn another subject matter in this language! Scientific and technological developments are in currency all over the world and any language (like any nation) that fails to acknowledge this fact and thus develop capacities to absorb scientific terms, concepts and expressions is doomed to obsolescence. Such language will gradually phase out. English language, for example has been able to accommodate scientific terms that are of Latin and Greek origin in addition to inventing other words to meet the demand of scientific development. Such invented words include infra-red, ultra-violet, ultrasonic, supersonic, ultra-modern, anabolic, katabolic (catabolic) intracellular, extra-cellular

T[b]here are many words, expressions etc., which were not hitherto known in English langauge but have been incorporated and widely used as a result of its contact with science langauge.[/b] Thus it can be said that language can be learnt through science and technology. A similar chance for development as is described for English language can also be made to come the way of the three Nigeria major languages i.e, Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba. These languages, including Igbo, the least developed of the three have capacities for assimilating words, terms and expressions from other languages and other cultures. In Yoruba langauge, for instance, there are such words as redio, komputa, suga, baluu or oko ofurufu, keke, biro, rula, which were originally unknown in the language which are now in relatively common use because of the influence of modern technology.

All,

It is my understanding that the 80% failure rate recorded is for Mathematics and English.
If this is so, I won't rush to judgement before I have had a chance to review the papers set in those 2 subjects.

Does anyone know how one can obtain online copies of the papers set in these subjects for past 3 years?

Question for those who know more about Nigeria's educational system  (I know nothing really). Someone said the WAEC exams can be compared to the SAT subject tests. Is this in fact true? And what is the passing grade for a WAEC subject (what number/percentage out of what number/percentage to get a credit)? I ask because for the SAT subject tests, in America, around 50-60% get above a 650 out of 800 (which might be like an 80/100 in a way). In addition, is there any data on just how badly the students are failing? (By a lot or by a little) What are the mean scores, std dev., etc.

Is it any surprising. Nigeria is a failing state. The educational sector is not spared. It started little. Many years back as primary school pupils and secondary school students, I remember the exercise books our parents bought for us for school carried the multiplication tables as well as basic units conversion tables e.g weight, distance, volume e.t.c at the back. These where books that helped you carry out basic units conversion on the spot. I remember many times (and with nostalgia) reciting my multiplication tables and instantly correcting my self with my exercise book. But Alas what do we find these days European football stars such as Ronaldinho. Kaka, Messi  adorn the exercise books our children take to school e.t.c Our education policy makers have stood by and watched this trend continue and have it now firmly entrenched. I am serving in the north and recently and I searched the whole town for ONWARD exercise books (I believe they are the only ones who still have a standard to uphold), and I found not a single shop selling one. Eventually I settled for one of the junks out there (a Manchester United front and back exercise book).
Its starts with little things like these, where somebody shies away from his oversight function and snowballs into mass exam failures. I dare say I'm not surprised, it was only a matter of time,

PhysicsMHD:

Question for those who know more about Nigeria's educational system  (I know nothing really). Someone said the WAEC exams can be compared to the SAT subject tests. Is this in fact true? And what is the passing grade for a WAEC subject (what number/percentage out of what number/percentage to get a credit)? I ask because for the SAT subject tests, in America, around 50-60% get above a 650 out of 800 (which might be like an 80/100 in a way). In addition, is there any data on just how badly the students are failing? (By a lot or by a little) What are the mean scores, std dev., etc.

Look WAEC and SAT cannot be compared.

I took both and I can tell you that the focus and emphasis of the two exams are different. WAEC is a certificate exam, it tests your mastery of what you were taught in secondary school. The SAT on the other hand is a projective exam that seeks to test your readiness for college grade work.


May be JAMB and SAT. Even at that, JAMB is not a standardized exam. It is a wuruwuru exam, being passed off as some sort of standardized exam. The more you study for the exam ( meaning that the more you cram) , the better you do. Scores dont vary that much on SAT. But for JAMB, questions are straightforward and fairly easy for the prepared. SAT depends to some extent on your test taking skills.

Council Registrar at WAEC headquarters in Ghana, Mrs. Mulikat Bello, also lamented the shameful outcome of results in 2010 and previous years. According to her, there were little or no differences in Nigeria's outing in WAEC compared with other West African countries that are participating in the same examination. Though she was worried at the spate of failure, she said Nigeria could do better, having been endowed with more resources than any other West African country. "What is the problem with us in Nigeria? What is the problem? We should be the one leading. We should be in the vanguard. It is not because I am a Nigerian, but because Nigeria is more blessed than any other country in West Africa. Is it in terms of geographical size? Is it in terms of population? Is it in terms of quality of resources available to us? I can't see the reason why our children will not excel," she said. -- http://allafrica.com/stories/201101100478.html?page=2


Given the foregoing, is it just possible that our students are being wrongly tested as well?

The council registrar's comments brings me back to my earlier question: does anyone know if it is possible to obtain online copies of past question papers?

fstranger1:

Look WAEC and SAT cannot be compared.

I took both and I can tell you that the focus and emphasis of the two exams are different. WAEC is a certificate exam, it tests your mastery of ehat you were thought in secondary school. The SAT on the other hand is a projective exam that seeks to test your readiness for college grade work.


May be JAMB and SAT. Even at that, JAMB is not a standardized exam. It is a wuruwuru exam, being passed off as some sort of standardized exam. The more you study for the exam ( meaning that the more you cram) , the better you do. Scores dont vary that much on SAT. But for JAMB, questions are straightforward and fairly easy for the prepared. SAT depends to some extent on your test taking skills.

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

fstranger1

It turns out that this not a new problem:

On English language, Aboderin  in 1986 writes: "An analysis of available results from 1964 to 1972 reveals that the percentage of candidates who gained distinction or credit fluctuates between 19% and 24%( Sounds familiar?)while more than 30% of the candidates failed in the English langauge examination each year. The distinction credit pass fell to about 16% in 1979 while more than 50% failed. Available reports for 1983 to 1985 also show that performances range from 5.14% to 14.49% at distinction/credit level while failure range from 59.08% to 82.49%.

Why cant we just try a new approach?

Not for all the tea in China we won't, not even for all the foreign conferences on "raising educational standards" we are paid to attend year after year.

I see the nigerian govts plans to keep future generations of nigerians dumb and functionally illiterate by cutting expenditure on education is now bearing fruit.

GEJ govt did invest more in education, though.

Don't know what Buhari would do . Probably wouldn't even be on his radar as far as spending.