Concocted by DG of NBS, Yemi 'Oluwole' Kale the ewedu statistician.

We all remember his usual Oshogbo magic GDP and IGR which he claimed was greater than all of Eastern states put together, while Aregbeshola was owing worker 24 months salaries and civil servant became street beggars.

Truth will always find a way to reveal itself just like water will naturally find a route, regardless of all conjectures and concotions.

Even yorubas here know it's fake.




Any statistics not conducted by United nations, UNICEF, UNDP and other international NGOs and research organisations remains uncredible. Yorubas can rig and manipulate figures for Africa

Blue3k:


Correlation doesn't equal causation so what's your point. You dissgreed with me saying family planning was the issue saying it's Islam until I asked about SW muslims. Then you added sharia as a caveat. You did imply it was their Islamic sharia law that was cause.

It is multifactorial but 'family planning" what does tha mean exactly ?

Family planning as a technology? Its availability? Its acceptability?

Family planning penetration in much of Northern Nigeria a function of Islam and therefore a subset of Islam alongside illiteracy which again in that space is a subset of Islam hence ideas like "Boko Haram"

Many in that space consider family planning to be Haram
So when you say " family planning" you need to explain what you mean.

The same family planning technology is ubiquitous but attitudes and knowledge vary largely because of the peculiar Islamic culture that leads to higher rates of female illiteracy and child marriage

The point of the SW is very simple there us no THEOCRATIC ISLAM in the SW as evidenced by Sharia courts

There are no Emirs who are RELIGIOUS RULERS


ISLAM in the SW is Very different from Islam in Kano. Very different

Among the Urhobo in Delta State they have very high fertility rates and are not as poor .
In Northern Nigerian Islamic areas you do not see women participate significantly in the economy

omonnakoda:

It is multifactorial but 'family planning" what does tha mean exactly ?

Family planning as a technology? Its availability? Its acceptability?

Family planning penetration in much of Northern Nigeria a function of Islam and therefore a subset of Islam alongside illiteracy which again in that space is a subset of Islam hence ideas like "Boko Haram"

Many in that space consider family planning to be Haram
So when you say " family planning" you need to explain what you mean.

The same family planning technology is ubiquitous but attitudes and knowledge vary largely because of the peculiar Islamic culture that leads to higher rates of female illiteracy and child marriage

Unless their version of Islam demands muslims not get an education or hold off kids or marriage until financially stable it's not an excuse. Their refusal to use condoms or birth control isnt about Islam. The leaders they vote for aren't if they dont do follow herd mentality. Even Sanusi comments weren't considered anti Islamic.

The only point I can give you child marriage and literacy rates. Even then on girl child education the vast majority agree its important. The failure falls with patents not teaching and state stepping in.

Noipolls actually

omonnakoda:

Sure Lagos state is majority Islam but there is Islam and there is ISLAM.

which Lagos state?

Blue3k:


Unless their version of Islam demands muslims not get an education or hold off kids or marriage until financially stable it's not an excuse. Their refusal to use condoms or birth control isnt about Islam. The leaders they vote for aren't if they dont do follow herd mentality. Even Sanusi comments weren't considered anti Islamic.

The only point I can give you child marriage and literacy rates. Even then on girl child education the vast majority agree its important. The failure falls with patents not teaching and state stepping in.

Ultimately there is a very different Islam in Yoruba land
School enrolment rates are low and Boko is Haram ideas are widespread going back a very long time
Did Sanusi practice family planning. How many children does he have?

There is no running away from the fact that Attitudes to family planning,child marriage, female education, female participation in the economy are all driven by their understanding of Islam.
Islam in the North is a theocracy with the Emir at the top. There is nothing like that in Yoruba land where Islam exists and intermarries other Faith's.

Daddysidhan:
which Lagos state?

what?

omonnakoda:
what?

you said Lagos state has majority Muslim

Daddysidhan:
you said Lagos state has majority Muslim

Most indigenes are Muslim

Analysis that lacks credibility. I have been arguing with Yemi Kale, the DG of the NBS since in the afternoon. How can you say Enugu which I lived in and I am very familiar with has a poverty rate of 58%? He then goes ahead to put states like Osun and Ekiti in low margins. Statistics most allign with perceived reality or else they lose credibility. Funny enough, NBS's figures differ greatly from that released by the World Bank just this February. So who do you believe?

OP, wait....

Why does SE and North have the same color on the map?

What happened to their billions? Did Awolowo seize their bank deposits again?

Chineke!!!!!

omonnakoda:


Ultimately there is a very different Islam in Yoruba land
School enrolment rates are low and Boko is Haram ideas are widespread going back a very long time
Did Sanusi practice family planning. How many children does he have?

There is no running away from the fact that Attitudes to family planning,child marriage, female education, female participation in the economy are all driven by their understanding of Islam.
Islam in the North is a theocracy with the Emir at the top. There is nothing like that in Yoruba land where Islam exists and intermarries other Faith's.

Sanusi did as far as I know. He's financially stable and takes care of his children. Unless you proof to the contrary we can reasonably assume he's well off.

There's no theocracy. The emir has no political power like the like the Ayatollah of Iran. Sanusi wouldn't have been booted out if that were the case. These post are just traditional post with no constitutional political powers.

It seems we cant change each others opinions. You want to believe it's islam thst told them to not plan families or educate themselves. Those polls conducted show most peoples attitudes. With good government policies and culture shift then they'll be ok. Blaming Islam just convenient excuse for their degeneracy for lack of a better word.

Blue3k:


Sanusi did as far as I know. He's financially stable and takes care of his children. Unless you proof to the contrary we can reasonably assume he's well off.

There's no theocracy. The emir has no political power like the like the Ayatollah of Iran. Sanusi wouldn't have been booted out if that were the case. These post are just traditional post with no constitutional political powers.

It seems we cant change each others opinions. You want to believe it's islam thst told them to not plan families or educate themselves. Those polls conducted show most peoples attitudes. With good government policies and culture shift then they'll be ok. Blaming Islam just convenient excuse for their degeneracy for lack of a better word.

Theocracy is not just the Emir but the entire system. Theocracy simply means Sharia law The practice of Sharia in Yoruba land is non existent compared to Zamfara.

Sanusi's financial stability is irrelevant. That is projecting your own value system They don't reason like that at all .Rather they have a deterministic world view that everything that happens is Allah's will0
He still has an environmental impact for his fecundity in terms of the amount of resources e.g land water security that his genetic pool consumes and in that culture no one will buy that argument from him where the mindset is one of whose progeny inherits the earth.

I believe their understanding of Islam accounts for many of their problems.
There is Islam in Yoruba land but we understand it differently

omonnakoda:
There is no Sharia in Yoruba land. Islam without Sharia is like odourless shit

Watch yasef.

omonnakoda:

Theocracy is not just the Emir but the entire system. Theocracy simply means Sharia law The practice of Sharia in Yoruba land is non existent compared to Zamfara.

Sanusi's financial stability is irrelevant. That is projecting your own value system They don't reason like that at all .Rather they have a deterministic world view that everything that happens is Allah's will0
He still has an environmental impact for his fecundity in terms of the amount of resources e.g land water security that his genetic pool consumes and in that culture no one will buy that argument from him where the mindset is one of whose progeny inherits the earth.

I believe their understanding of Islam accounts for many of their problems.
There is Islam in Yoruba land but we understand it differently

Theocracy doesn't mean having religious laws but being ruled by religious rulers or supreme being. Iran is a theocracy while Iraq isn't. They both practice sharia law. These are democratic states run by religious people.

Sanusi finances are relevant. How else would you determine his family planning. Your opinion on their world view is noted.

Definition of theocracy

1: government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided

2: a state governed by a theocracy

Blue3k:


Theocracy doesn't mean having religious laws but being ruled by religious rulers or supreme being. Iran is a theocracy while Iraq isn't. They both practice sharia law. These are democratic states run by religious people.

Sanusi finances are relevant. How else would you determine his family planning. Your opinion on their world view is noted.

Theocracy can have all kinds of variants but the key issue is religious based law not religious RULERS. That is nonsense.
Religious rulers derive authority from religious law.


Emirs ARE RELIGIOUS RULERS

Theocracy does not have to be absolute or pure but often is a hybrid of theocracy and monarchy
Just like some so called democracies have constitutional monarchies
Bringing Irag or Iran are diversionary.
The point is Islam Northern Nigeria is closer to a theocracy than in Yoruba land.
Let us stick to that comparison nothing to do with Iran.

Only Muslims can become Emirs and the system is essentially a theocratic one especially in the rural areas where government impact is minimal just like in Yoruba land Oro festivals take place and restrict women movement. Purists may argue it is unconstitutional but it happens in practice even in Lagos state.
BY a similar token we have flogging for stealing EVEN IN ABUJA,
We saw s policeman arrested for breaching Sharia law in one of the Northern states.

omonnakoda:


Theocracy can have all kinds of variants but the key issue is religious based law not religious RULERS. That is nonsense.
Religious rulers derive authority from religious law.


Emirs ARE RELIGIOUS RULERS

Theocracy does not have to be absolute or pure but often is a hybrid of theocracy and monarchy
Just like some so called democracies have constitutional monarchies
Bringing Irag or Iran are diversionary.
The point is Islam Northern Nigeria is closer to a theocracy than in Yoruba land.
Let us stick to that comparison nothing to do with Iran.

Only Muslims can become Emirs and the system is essentially a theocratic one especially in the rural areas where government impact is minimal just like in Yoruba land Oro festivals take place and restrict women movement. Purists may argue it is unconstitutional but it happens in practice even in Lagos state.
BY a similar token we have flogging for stealing EVEN IN ABUJA,
We saw s policeman arrested for breaching Sharia law in one of the Northern states.

There's nothing diversionary from giving examples to prove point. Northern Nigeria isnt a theocracy by definition of the word. It's a democracy since they have zero political power. All the power rest with the elected officials and the traditional rules just exist by statues. By your logic every Nigerian state is constitutional monarchy of sorts. The UK is also a theocracy because the queen is the head of the Anglican church.

Blue3k:



There's nothing diversionary from giving examples to prove point. Northern Nigeria isnt a theocracy by definition of the word. It's a democracy since they have zero political power. All the power rest with the elected officials and the traditional rules just exist by statues. By your logic every Nigerian state is constitutional monarchy of sorts. The UK is also a theocracy because the queen is the head of the Anglican church.

I am talking about the traditional system of government and their de facto not de jure operation especially in rural settings.

The primary law in rural Zamfara is Sharia.

We are comparing Yoruba land to Those places. LIKE I said it is not an absolute but relative theocracy by comparison.

The Islam in Yoruba land versus that in Sokoto etc do quit eith the ridiculous interjection of England .
The issue is not Islam itself but the difference in practice and understanding. There are Sharia courts and that is a sign of theocracy, they even have Islamic police

omonnakoda:

I am talking about the traditional system of government and their de facto not de jure operation especially in rural settings.

The primary law in rural Zamfara is Sharia.

We are comparing Yoruba land to Those places. LIKE I said it is not an absolute but relative theocracy by comparison.

The Islam in Yoruba land versus that in Sokoto etc do quit eith the ridiculous interjection of England.
The issue is not Islam itself but the difference in practice and understanding. There are Sharia courts and that is a sign of theocracy, they even have Islamic police

There's no basis to say they're a theocracy. Ths sharia opperates because the elected officials made laws not traditional rulers. They have no power in other areas as proven by Sanusi. If it doesn't fit into definition in any form then it's clearly something else.

The sharia courts are federal courts so is Nigeria a sharia country by your logic? Is SW a democratic monarchies by your logic? If the answers no you're being logically inconsistent. You dont want to compare and contrast other countries because it hurts your arguments on.

Blue3k:


There's no basis to say they're a theocracy. Ths sharia opperates because the elected officials made laws not traditional rulers. They have no power in other areas as proven by Sanusi. If it doesn't fit into definition in any form then it's clearly something else.

The sharia courts are federal courts so is Nigeria a sharia country by your logic? Is SW a democratic monarchies by your logic? If the answers no you're being logically inconsistent. You dont want to compare and contrast other countries because it hurts your arguments on.

They are a hybrid theocracy they have Sharia courts, they have Islamic police.

You are the one with a weak grounding in logic hence your repeated resort to external examples.That us s poor substitute for an argument

Whether or no not there is a de facto theocracy in Zamfara is not verified by what happens in the SW.


At any rate we are digressing.

Whether it is theocratic or theocratic _
-like the key point is Islam is more absolute and encompassing than in Yoruba land in its outlook and worldview.
In the North there was a Caliphate with a theocracy which was taken over by the Nigerian state
That cultural milieu is totally intact and very different from Islam in Yoruba land where Christians and Muslims Routinely inter marry.
That is what we are discussing here and how that shapes attitudes to women,contraception western education etc thus leading to poverty. Recently a bill for women equality was killed in the National Assembly for "religious " reasons so to me it is crazy to suggest that the practice of Islam in Yoruba land is the same as in Kano.

omonnakoda:

They are a hybrid theocracy they have Sharia courts, they have Islamic police.

You are the one with a weak grounding in logic hence your repeated resort to external examples.That us s poor substitute for an argument

Whether or no not there is a de facto theocracy in Zamfara is not verified by what happens in the SW.

Ok so you also believe Nigeria states are defacto monarchies? If northern Nigeria is a hybrid theocracy then that should as be true. We're talking about a system of government so it doesn't matter if it foreign. What matters is do those too similar. It's like saying both nigeria and America are federal states.

There's no theocracy because they dont have political power. That's the crux of my argument. There's no hybrid because the systems weren't fused. The democraticly elected leaders make the laws and administer them. Sharia courts are federal courts of appeal. Nigeria itself should be considered a theocracy by that logic. The hishba serve under democratic control not theocratic. The emirs just traditional stools at the end of the day.

Blue3k:


Ok so you also believe Nigeria states are defacto monarchies? If northern Nigeria is a hybrid theocracy then that should as be true. We're talking about a system of government so it doesn't matter if it foreign. What matters is do those too similar. It's like saying both nigeria and America are federal states.

There's no theocracy because they dont have political power. That's the crux of my argument. There's no hybrid because the systems weren't fused. The democraticly elected leaders make the laws and administer them. Sharia courts are federal courts of appeal. Nigeria itself should be considered a theocracy by that logic. The hishba serve under democratic control not theocratic. The emirs just traditional stools at the end of the day.

We are digressing 2nd time don't put words in my mouth. I said hybrid 2nd time ,this is excruciatingly circular. Anything new?

The topic is poverty.i believe in Northern Nigeria they would be less poor if they have less Islam emphasizing that theirs is a different variant to what we have in Yoruba land. . That would mean girls going to school and joining the workforce not making excess of 5 babies commencing age 12-14 whilst completely illiterate
in most cases.women,more accurately, girls are still given off as wives for financial considerations.
Low school enrolment, low immunisation, and the consequences e.g childhood deafness, blindness, limb deformities, begging, etc are now being exported.
An ingrained attitude of hostility to anything unislamic and frequent violent eruptions .It is difficult to create industries among an illiterate population .
To my mind all these link strongly with rigid Islam which Boko Haram represents. Boko Haram survives because they are not very far from mainstream.

omonnakoda:

We are digressing 2nd time don't put words in my mouth. I said hybrid 2nd time ,this is excruciatingly circular. Anything new?

You're hybrid theocracy arguement is wrong. A hybrid implies both elements are present. If you dont have government based on having both theocratic rulers its not a hybrid. All that's present is democratic rule. There's no political power with the emirs or any other traditional post.

I'm done with the other topic like I said begore. If you feel its islam that's the issue cool. I read you arguements and already shown there's plenty of exceptions to the rule. If 6 states arent enough that's alright.

See arguments btw omonnakoda and Blue3k
Please both of you remember UAE is a Muslim country same as Malaysia and Iran
Malaysia, Iran and Indonesia also practice Sharia law, yet Iran and Malaysia has one of the best scientists and education in the world.

seunny4lif:
See arguments btw omonnakoda and Blue3k
Please both of you remember UAE is a Muslim country same as Malaysia and Iran
Malaysia, Iran and Indonesia also practice Sharia law, yet Iran and Malaysia has one of the best scientists and education in the world.

Read and comprehend before reacting. Don't just jump in and start yapping

If you did you would not bring in your foolish examples.
I said that they understand Islam differently in different places.
They understand Islam differently in Lagos from Zamfara. So why talk rubbish about Malaysia? Do they refuse immunisation and marry 12 year old girls in those places in the name of Islam or say that Boko is Haram ?

Blue3k:


You're hybrid theocracy arguement is wrong. A hybrid implies both elements are present. If you dont have government based on having both theocratic rulers its not a hybrid. All that's present is democratic rule. There's no political power with the emirs or any other traditional post.

I'm done with the other topic like I said begore. If you feel its islam that's the issue cool. I read you arguements and already shown there's plenty of exceptions to the rule. If 6 states arent enough that's alright.

You continue to digress. The topic is poverty
There is a de facto hybrid of theocracy
The Emirs have not only political power but judicial power . They arrest people, detain them,sometimes forcefully convert them to Islam or forcefully marry them. They summon non Muslims and settle disputes with judicial finality

You can sit down remotely talking rubbish but the reality is in rural Zamfa Bormo and much of Northern Nigeria there is zero presence of the Nigerian state.

The topic of the thread is POVERTY. I said the understanding and practice of Islam informs low school enrolment, low immunisation, child marriage and general widespread illiteracy. I contrasted this with Islam in Yoruba land so do not make your argument by deliberately falsifying my words ,if there was any doubt I have made repeated clarification. The peculiar understanding and practice of Islam in that part of the world is a problem that is a major factor in poverty

I can see you are the foolish one
Google about Malaysia before typing with your anus

In 2018, following controversy and widespread protests in Malaysia when a 41-year-old man married an 11-year-old Thai girl in Gua Musang, Kelantan, the newly elected Malaysian government said it was in the process of drafting a bill that would ban child marriages in the country.

United Nations report showed that over 102,000 married women in Malaysia were girls between the ages of 12 and 19. The true scale of child marriage in Malaysia may, however, be even higher as many couples who take part in religious or customary weddings do not register their unions.

Other child marriages are driven by the poverty of the bride’s family.

omonnakoda:

Read and comprehend before reacting. Don't just jump in and start yapping

If you did you would not bring in your foolish examples.
I said that they understand Islam differently in different places.
They understand Islam differently in Lagos from Zamfara. So why talk rubbish about Malaysia? Do they refuse immunisation and marry 12 year old girls in those places in the name of Islam or say that Boko is Haram ?

No need arguing with him

Blue3k:


You're hybrid theocracy arguement is wrong. A hybrid implies both elements are present. If you dont have government based on having both theocratic rulers its not a hybrid. All that's present is democratic rule. There's no political power with the emirs or any other traditional post.

I'm done with the other topic like I said begore. If you feel its islam that's the issue cool. I read you arguements and already shown there's plenty of exceptions to the rule. If 6 states arent enough that's alright.

seunny4lif:
No need arguing with him

Yeah the conversation has run it course.