hakeem4:
yeah i actually agree

EMILO2STAY:
the atheist is wrong. Hell is place of punishment for the devil not a place for him to punish others. And humans do not necessarily follow the devil, humans make their own decisions which is why they will be judged By their works.
.

hakeem4:
So that means the concept of free will is irrelevant ?

EMILO2STAY:
what do you mean?

hakeem4:
you said human make their own decision

chemystery:
God refuses to give us eternal life on Earth because we are sinners.
But God wants to give sinners eternal life in hell so that he can torture them.

Don't forget that God loves you, and this is just one of His best ways of showing it.

hakeem4:
you said human make their own decision

HedwigesMaduro:


You are confusing yourself with that question. Is it not when you have free will that you make your decision? Just as the op said.

hakeem4:
yes. But what i was insinuating was that there would not be need for any divine plan if we made all our decisions

hakeem4:
yes. But what i was insinuating was that there would not be need for any divine plan if we made all our decisions

EMILO2STAY:
man now knows the difference between good and bad just like the angels. Man is now left to make their own decisions to choose what is good or bad.



God has set his standard for man to follow, a part which all men know it is the good path. But those who reject the commands of God will not be part of his new kingdom.

Pls I will like you to explain more on the devine plan you mean.

hakeem4:
yes. But what i was insinuating was that there would not be need for any divine plan if we made all our decisions

hakeem4:

@Bolded does not look like free will to me. Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.

I have repeatedly seen the argument that Free Will is a doomed concept because human “will” is not “free” because all human activity, including human cognition, is either (i) inexorably caused by forces outside of any person’s control, or (ii) random and chaotic — but, in either event, not the result of a free and deliberate choice.

Neither am i deterministic. I just want to understand this your your divine free will

EMILO2STAY:
you first have to understand that there is good and evil in this world. The free will am talking about is the ability of man to choose between these( good and evil) . the laws of God are well known to man even without being commanded to us by God,.. Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill etc. Man now in his fallen state, knowing fully well the meaning of their actions are can do as he pleases but every action will be brought to book.
Christ said, " I set before thee life and death choose, but I advise you choose life.

The fact that it is called free will does not mean you will go Scot free without bearing the consequences of your action.

You have to remember there is good and evil in this world. If you are not on the side of good then automatically you are on the side of evil.
So therefore you have the free will to choose between these two with out any one forcing to do it.

hakeem4:

Then god cannot be omniscient and give us free will at the same time. It is logically incoherent. Since the Abrahamic god claims that he is omniscient and offers us free will, this type of god would be difficult to conceive

Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest 'He knows', then it necessarily follows that the man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand how he would act, otherwise, God's knowledge would be imperfect.…"

hakeem4:

Then god cannot be omniscient and give us free will at the same time. It is logically incoherent. Since the Abrahamic god claims that he is omniscient and offers us free will, this type of god would be difficult to conceive

Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest 'He knows', then it necessarily follows that the man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand how he would act, otherwise, God's knowledge would be imperfect.…"

Aonkuuse:
So complicated

chemystery:
God refuses to give us eternal life on Earth because we are sinners.
But God wants to give sinners eternal life in hell so that he can torture them.

Don't forget that God loves you, and this is just one of His best ways of showing it.

hakeem4:

Then god cannot be omniscient and give us free will at the same time. It is logically incoherent. Since the Abrahamic god claims that he is omniscient and offers us free will, this type of god would be difficult to conceive

Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest 'He knows', then it necessarily follows that the man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand how he would act, otherwise, God's knowledge would be imperfect.…"

EMILO2STAY:
the fact that God is omniscient does not change the fact that humans choose their own path by themselves. His omniscient does not compel anyone to do what they do.

Christ knew that Judas iscariot would betray him, he did not manipulate Judas to do his will but Judas chooses to do so by himself of his own freewill knowing fully well what he was doing.

The fact that God is omniscient and all knowing does not mean that man can do what ever he likes with out judgment because his own conscience convicts him of his sins.

Aonkuuse:
So complicated

hakeem4:
No! god had already plan that judas would betray him according to the bible. So indirectly judas was working under the command of god

EMILO2STAY:
that is true, though you will not say he was manipulated to act that way.

He actually did out of his own choice.

festwiz:
Do you know what the word "plan" means?

hakeem4:
No! god had already plan that judas would betray him according to the bible. So indirectly judas was working under the command of god