petra1:


There are three person in the Godhead

AntiChristian:


You mean your God is three in one Gods?

Yet one God can pray to the other or one can accuse the other!

petra1:


Do you understand the meaning of persons

madegreatbygrace:
Oh, I see. Please post what the Quaran says in those chapters and verses for all to see.

Surah 57:3 and Surah 3:135

madegreatbygrace:
And then this:

He is the first and the last and the Ascendant over all and the Knower of hidden things,............”Surah 57:3

madegreatbygrace:
Your Quaran agrees that it is only God that can forgive sins.

And those who, when they commit a foul deed or wrong themselves, remember ALLAH and implore forgiveness for their sins- and who can forgive sins except ALLAH - and who not knowingly persist in what they do - Surah 3:135


In two separate incidents, Jesus forgave sins.


“And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:48-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yet again,


“When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thus, both the Bible and the Quaran declare that it's only God that can forgive sins. Now the question is, should an "ordinary Prophet" lay claim to the forgiveness of sins?

madegreatbygrace:
While you're at that, it may interest you to know that your Quaran calls God, the first and the last. As a matter of fact, “The first and the last” are two of your Allah’s 99 names in your Quaran.

He is the first and the last and the Ascendant over all and the knower of hidden things, ..............Surah 57:3

Also, in the Bible, we read :

“Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭44:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So both the Bible and the Quaran call God the first and the last.

Then Jesus, whom you claim to be a prophet, calls Himself the first and the last.

“And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So how would a "mere prophet" take upon himself, a title attributed to God alone, if indeed he is not God?

Acehart:


Colossians 1:16-18 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Revelation 22:12-13: "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Mark 2:5,10 And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"

AntiChristian:



Surah 57:2 His is the dominion of the heavens and earth. He gives life and causes death, and He is over all things competent.

Surah 57:3 He is the First and the Last, the Ascendant and the Intimate, and He is, of all things, Knowing.

Surah 3:135 And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves [by transgression], remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins - and who can forgive sins except Allah ? - and [who] do not persist in what they have done while they know.

AntiChristian:




So your claim all along is that Jesus is Allah/God from the Qur'an and Bible.

This can be refuted too from Qur'an and your Bible too. Please each of this numbers and answer them one by one!

1. Allah created death so he is far above dying! Your own Jesus was killed by his father who is himself.

2. The Bible calls Jesus son of God and he has another father in heaven. So how is the son = to the father?

3. Jesus evidently doesn't know the hour of judgement. He is not omniscient despite all the miracles and the "purported sins" you claim he forgave. On the contrary God is Omniscient all the time. He is able to do all things.

4. The first and last is Allah alone. Jesus was praying to someone from your Bible. Who was he praying to? Is that person the second and penultimate?

5. Allah is distinct from 'Eesa son of Maryam (Jesus). The latter is the slave and messenger of the former! In Qur'an 19:39 this was established.

6. In your Bible, Jesus called his Lord when he was about to die? Eli, Eli, Lama....who was he calling? Who is his Lord?

7. When Jesus was being baptized a voice came from heaven saying " This is my beloved son..." Who was talking?

So, all in all, we believe only Allah can forgive sins and He can accept the intercession of any of His slaves. Jesus is human not God.

madegreatbygrace:

In addition to the above, you must also understand that the title "Son of God" doesn't mean someone born of God, or God's "pikin". It actually means God in human form. In that sense, it means Jesus is God. It doesn't mean that Jesus is the offspring of God. This truth is clearly explained in John 10:30-36

I and the Father are one. John 10:30 (NASB)

The Greek word that Jesus used for “one” is eis. That is Jesus said that He was the Father and the Father was Himself. He referred to the concept of the trinity. Both the Old and New Testament teach that God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19). Now notice the response of the religious leaders. They understood that He claimed to be God.

The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (NASB) John 10:33

So Jesus responded to the Jews with this comment,

. . . do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, “You are blaspheming,” because I said, “I am the Son of God”? (NASB) John 10:36

Jesus apparently had said He was the “Son of God.” The Jews understood this term to be a claim of deity. They understood that Jesus had declared He was God. Therefore, they accused Jesus of blasphemy. They knew Jesus was claiming to be God. That is the meaning of the “Son of God.” The phrase “Son of God” means God.

Acehart:


1. Allah created death so he is far above dying! Your own Jesus was killed by his father who is himself.

A: Romans 8:3: “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he (Christ) condemned sin in the flesh.”

If we are unable to fulfill the law, then we will be punished by it. But, since God desires us to be saved, the law must be satisfied. Since we cannot keep the law and the law must be satisfied, the only One capable of keeping the law must keep the law: The Sinless One, Christ/Allah Himself: 2 Corinthians 5:21: “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us”

Only flesh can die. Since God is omnipotent, the power to transform into the flesh isn’t difficult. To show that He is transformed into man, He must die - for all men must die. To show that He is all-powerful, He must overcome His creation - death.

Acts 2:24: But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

Death can not hold down its creator - Christ/Allah.

2. The Bible calls Jesus son of God and he has another father in heaven. So how is the son = to the father?

A. Meaning of Title, “Son of God”: Servant of God, Messenger of God, Just-like God, The Right-hand of God, One-of the Godhead, Begotten (Came our from the midst) of the Godhead, Messiah of God, Angel of God, The King of the Godhead, The Anointed One of the GodHead.

Meaning of Father: The Progenitor, The Master, The Teacher, God, Privileged status of the adult son and heir, The Exalted one, The Head of the Family, Strong Leader, Protector of the House.

John 10:28-30, 37-38: “I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one. If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."

Notice: what the Father can do, the Son do - no one can snatch anything out of their hands. Both give eternal life. Notice: The Father is in the Son, and The Son is in the Father. Notice the meaning of “Father”: The Son bears those Titles too. Notice: the meaning of Son, it means titles not the hereditary position men give their children. The Father is the Son, and the Son is the Father. Yet, the two of them are co-independent.

3. Jesus evidently doesn't know the hour of judgement. He is not omniscient despite all the miracles and the "purported sins" you claim he forgave. On the contrary God is Omniscient all the time. He is able to do all things.

A. God knows everything (1 John 3:20). God knows himself and all things exhaustively, eternally, and unchangeably. He knows his own perfections, plans, actions, and goals (Ps. 147:5; Isa. 46:10; Acts 15:18). He knows the billions of angels in light (Dan. 7:10), every corner of hell (Prov. 15:11), all of our sins (Ps. 69:5), every hidden thought (Ps. 139:2), every ounce of our suffering (Ps. 56:. He proves his deity by infallibly knowing the past, present, and future, including all possibilities and contingent events (1 Sam. 23:10–13; Matt. 11:21), from the tiniest detail (Matt. 10:29–30) to the fact and timing of our salvation (Rom. 8:29; 2 Tim. 1:9). As the eternal Son of the Father, Jesus Christ possesses the fullness of deity, including the attribute of omniscience (Phil. 2:6; John 21:17).

How, then, are we to reconcile the comprehensiveness of Jesus’s divine knowledge with Matthew 24:36, where the divine Son of God declares to his disciples that there is something he didn’t know?

The answer lies in His humanity. The Bible says, He grew in knowledge. Why? He was primarily appointed on behalf of men (Hebrews 5:1). As a man, then, the Son “increased in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man” (Luke 2:52). And like any human being after the fall, he became hungry (Matt. 4:2), grew tired (John 4:6), felt distress (Matt. 26:38), and, yes, was amazed at what he learned (Matt. 8:10; Luke 7:9; Mark 6:6; cf. Luke 2:46). Jesus could only have experienced such changes in his human nature. Part of the limitation of this Messenger of God was the limit of His message..

“The divine Son was ignorant of the day of his return,” even as we affirm that the divine Son knows everything (John 21:17). Why? The context of Matthew 24 reveals that Jesus’s declaration in verse 36 is designed to restrain our vain curiosity, to bind us to his Word, and to stir us up to be vigilant and eager to meet our Lord face-to-face (Matt. 24:42, 44; 25:13, 46).

Yet, God’s Word tells us all we need to know about Christ’s return. He will come from heaven, on clouds, in the flesh, with glory and power, suddenly, visibly, audibly, at the end of the world, with angels and saints at his side, as Christians rejoice and unbelievers weep at his sight.

4. The first and last is Allah alone. Jesus was praying to someone from your Bible. Who was he praying to? Is that person the second and penultimate?

A: 2 Corinthians 12:9 And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness."

Why do the weak pray to the Almighty? Was Christ weak? He does not mean his sinful weakness (those we have reason to be ashamed of and grieved at), but he means his afflictions, his reproaches, necessities and persecutions. Paul prays to God (Father) just as Christ prayed and no one bore the brunt of antagonism Christ faced more than Paul. So, Christ/Allah had to come in flesh as man so that He must feel every weakness man feels, for Him to be qualified as a perfect intercessor for man (Hebrews 4:14-15) and also that He may deal kindly with man (Hebrews 5:2). Hence, He prayed for power to endure and for the power of God to manifest. For example, when The Son prayed to the Father on the Cross, did the Father manifest? Greatly! The sun lost its light for three hours, The graves were open and dead bodies were seen, the sanctity of the earthly temple was destroyed in an earthquake, there was no celebration of the Feast etc.

This is a Christian paradox: when we are weak in ourselves, then we are strong in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ; when we see ourselves weak in ourselves, then we go out of ourselves to Christ, and are qualified to receive strength from him, and experience most of the supplies of divine strength and grace. - This was the grace He sought.

Your questions 5-7 have been answered above.

AntiChristian:


You were just beating about the bush and writing Paul said Paul Said.... Paul wrote letters and his letters are not Gospels!

Kindly explain the meaning of the following verses telling us specifically who Jesus was praying to or calling father:

1. Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father. (Matt 20:23)

2. “Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. On reaching the place, he said to them, ‘Pray that you will not fall into temptation.’ He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, ‘Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.’ An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.” – Luke 22:39-44

3 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." Matt 26:39

4. About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".

5. Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are You so far from saving me, so far from my words of groaning?

Acehart:


You are a walking contradiction. A man whose days are numbered. Why have you hardened your neck? A man writes to you from the gospels and you hardened your heart saying ‘his only proof is from John’. I gave references from over 7 books of the Bible and you say: Paul said, Paul said. The scriptures of life is one, and your stiff neck would rather have them separated. May you be separated when you still have breathe in you.

2 Timothy 3:16: All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Acehart:

Psalms 110:1: ”The Lord says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

This verse is the final answer the Lord has for you.