MuttleyLaff:
Let's without straying and why unneccesarily reading more into the meaning stay within the evolution, circumstance and context of how the phrase came about, erhn.

You've spoke some big grammar here! I'm still learning English!

shadeyinka:
You've spoke some big grammar here! I'm still learning English!

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]

Acehart:

I think you are overreacting in saying that those who care to tell all and sundry that they are “born-again” are boastful.

You didn't get it!
I said "saying that born again implies that you are boasting that your works will save you against the salvation by grace through Christ "
That is, you are not depending on grace for your salvation, rather you are depending on your works.
I also defined what most people generally known as born again, that it is being morally upright in Christ which is the same thing as works of the law( in Christ).
If you have read Galatians 3:10 before you will understand what I'm saying.

paxonel:
You didn't get it!
I said "saying that born again implies that you are boasting that your works will save you against the salvation by grace through Christ "
That is, you are not depending on grace for your salvation, rather you are depending on your works.
I also defined what most people generally known as born again, that it is being morally upright in Christ which is the same thing as works of the law( in Christ).
If you have read Galatians 3:10 before you will understand what I'm saying.

Hi, did you do a survey to ascertain that those who proclaim (boast) that they are born again mean that they are saved by works and depending on works for their salvation? If you haven’t, how can you be objective? If you are a frequent reader of Christianity Today’s articles, you would see that they don’t write articles without surveys, because a subjective writeup is a biased writeup. Haven’t you read a couple of times Paul saying: “I have found this? - It is a statement of searching by interaction - an objective survey.

Hope you had a good night’s rest?

MuttleyLaff:
"Jesus answered and said to him,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, (i.e. born again)
he is not able to see the kingdom of God.""
[color=#990000]- John 3:3

Have you taken time to analyze this statement?
Except anyone is born again, he will not enter the kingdom.
It follows that being born again was the requirement to enter the kingdom of God and it is not the kingdom of God itself.
It is like for anyone to enter the university to study, the requirement is that he must pass through jamb or it equivalents, that does not mean that a student writing jamb should see himself as a student in the university.
Being in the university is greater level than the level of jamb, that is how the kingdom of God is a greater level than born again level.
Because, when Christ told Nicodemus that you must be born again the kingdom of God has not yet been established here on earth, but meanwhile there were born again on earth, all Jesus disciples were born again awaiting the kingdom.

Today, now! The kingdom of God is already here on earth, so that issue of born again has become irrelevant.
This is the dynamics of the truth behind it.

We can never be born again anymore it's not possible. Rather, we are all Christians purchased by the blood of Christ crucifixion and resurrection which never happened at the time of the born again disciples who followed Jesus Christ.

Even the remaining disciples of John the Baptist who were born again were later baptised into Christianity after Christ has resurrected.

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

So, born again was just a short period(the beginning of the baptism of John to the resurrection of Christ) where the disciples witnessed Christ death and resurrection, it was the period of THE GREAT TRIBULATION as prophesied by Daniel and is never part of Christianity.

Christianity started after Jesus has resurrected

Acehart:


Hi, did you do a survey to ascertain that those who proclaim (boast) that they are born again mean that they are saved by works and depending on works for their salvation? If you haven’t, how can you be objective? If you are a frequent reader of Christianity Today’s articles, you would see that they don’t write articles without surveys, because a subjective writeup is a biased writeup. Haven’t you read a couple of times Paul saying: “I have found this? - It is a statement of searching by interaction - an objective survey.

Hope you had a good night’s rest?

survey?
You don't need any survey to see the obvious.
Now tell me, when a Christian says I'm born again, is he not simply assuming that he does not commit sin or he commit little sin compare to those who are not born again?

paxonel:
survey?
You don't need any survey to see the obvious.
Now tell me, when a Christian says I'm born again, is he not simply assuming that he does not commit sin or he commit little sin compare to those who are not born again?

I had pointed earlier that the main problem (which you aren’t considering) is false teaching. We were not born to know what the term born again means; we only knew because we read about it or we were taught rather.

There is a popular song by Don Moen - Give thanks; it has as its chorus: And now, let the weak say I am strong. We always sing along delightful; but you know what, it is a song that twists the scriptures upside down; That verse from the Book of Joel is a statement God uttered to taunt his enemies. But today, we sing it as a “boast”. If those whom you say boast, know what is right, will they boast?

You say it is obvious; if it was obvious, will people boast? Unless you have the ability to know the intent of the heart, your postulation - “he not simply assuming that he does not commit sin or he commit little sin compare to those who are not born again“ can be termed as a wild guess, to say the least. If you must be objective, you would bring results from the their hearts and not the scriptures.

Please, don’t point your gun at the students, point it at their teachers - that is what Christ will do.

Acehart:


I had pointed earlier that the main problem (which you aren’t considering) is false teaching. We were not born to know what the term born again means; we only knew because we read about it or we were taught rather.

you are right.

There is a popular song by Don Moen - Give thanks; it has as its chorus: And now, let the weak say I am strong. We always sing along delightful; but you know what, it is a song that twists the scriptures upside down; That verse from the Book of Joel is a statement God uttered to taunt his enemies. But today, we sing it as a “boast”.

as a boast that they are self righteous?
Let's be sincere, I don't think that there is any Christian today that sing that song to boast that he is self righteous.
However, if any Christian says I'm born again, i don't commit sin, i am righteous, then he is boasting. Because.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If those whom you say boast, know what is right, will they boast?

I don't think so

You say it is obvious; if it was obvious, will people boast? Unless you have the ability to know the intent of the heart, your postulation - “he not simply assuming that he does not commit sin or he commit little sin compare to those who are not born again“ can be termed as a wild guess, to say the least. If you must be objective, you would bring results from the their hearts and not the scriptures.

Please, don’t point your gun at the students, point it at their teachers - that is what Christ will do.

may be when their teachers see the effects of their wrong teachings to the students they will have a rethink

paxonel:

as a boast that they are self righteous?
Let's be sincere, I don't think that there is any Christian today that sing that song to boast that he is self righteous.

I know there is a communication gap between you and me; that’s why I keep responding in the hopes that you will understand me completely.

When we put words or phrases in quotes, it means we want to use the word not in the real sense of its meaning but that it may fit the narrative. The Don Moen song twisted a scripture out of its meaning, yet many people sing along: you should have seen that I meant don’t aim your sword at those who sing along with him; but aim it at the songwriter.

We will always follow those whom we think are our leaders through the Byzantine verses of the scriptures until we know they are wrong in many things as we read for ourselves or taught correctly; if the false teaching makes us metamorphous into your label, “boasters”, why do you then slander us? When you sing “Give thanks“, who slanders you? If a scripture is misunderstood, does it call for a slaughtering or it calls for correcting?

paxonel:
Have you taken time to analyze this statement?
Except anyone is born again, he will not enter the kingdom.

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
Whats there to analyse?
The thread title is talking about being born from above (i.e. born again) and not about entering the kingdom of God itself. You are going ahead of yourself introducing John 3:5. We were discussing entering we were only discussing boasting of being born from above (i.e. born again)

paxonel:
It follows that being born again was the requirement to enter the kingdom of God and it is not the kingdom of God itself.
It is like for anyone to enter the university to study, the requirement is that he must pass through jamb or it equivalents, that does not mean that a student writing jamb should see himself as a student in the university.
Being in the university is greater level than the level of jamb, that is how the kingdom of God is a greater level than born again level.
Because, when Christ told Nicodemus that you must be born again the kingdom of God has not yet been established here on earth, but meanwhile there were born again on earth, all Jesus disciples were born again awaiting the kingdom.

Just as the British empire extended to Nigeria during the colonial period, so the kingdom of God extended to the earth

paxonel:
Today, now! The kingdom of God is already here on earth, so that issue of born again has become irrelevant.
This is the dynamics of the truth behind it.

The kingdom of God has alway from the beginning extended to earth. The garden of Eden was its embassy on earth then, so what are you talking off now

paxonel:
We can never be born again anymore it's not possible.

Every person needs to be regenerated from above because Adam and Eve immediately died spiritually after eating the fruit off the TKG&E inside the garden east of Eden

paxonel:
Rather, we are all Christians purchased by the blood of Christ crucifixion and resurrection which never happened at the time of the born again disciples who followed Jesus Christ.

According to John 3:3, Jesus confirmed to Nicodemus that except one is born again, it is impossible to admit, acknowledge and confirm seeing the demonstrated dynamism move and power of the kingdom of God as displayed by Jesus

paxonel:
Even the remaining disciples of John the Baptist who were born again were later baptised into Christianity after Christ has resurrected.

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

So, born again was just a short period (the beginning of the baptism of John to the resurrection of Christ) where the disciples witnessed Christ death and resurrection, it was the period of THE GREAT TRIBULATION as prophesied by Daniel and is never part of Christianity.

Christianity started after Jesus has resurrected

The disciples were all already born again before the death of Jesus, they were only endued with power on the day of pentecost. Jesus had prewired them to wait and not leave Jerusalem until they have received it.

Born again isn't a pass that will necessarily give anyone access to enter the kingdom of God. Why? Flesh and blood cant enter the kingdom of God. It is a glorified and/or transformed body that does, lmao. Jesus introduced this fact to Nicodemus because he at the beginning was baffled at the prospect of the need to be born again, so Jesus stepped up, saying to the effect that being born again is even small concerning seeing, that its impossible for flesh and blood to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus never had the intention to reveal, teach, preach or explain any of these two concepts, it was circumstantially brought up and about because of Nicodemus' ignorance, which Jesus even commented on how Nicodemus a teacher of Israel, didnt know these things

Born again, is a concept very much around and about with us today, as it was back then circa 4000 years ago

Please check and correct accordingly....


You said Romans 11:6 But with faith (religion) it's impossible to please God.


First of all its not Romans 11:6

It's Hebrew 11:6

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



What an excellent piece. Love this and you too. Keep up. I am inspired.


Please correct and never allow Satan stain your awesome writing skills. Please always proofread before you post. Praying for you.

lightblazingnow:
Please check and correct accordingly....


You said Romans 11:6 But with faith (religion) it's impossible to please God.


First of all its not Romans 11:6

It's Hebrew 11:6

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



What an excellent piece. Love this and you too. Keep up. I am inspired.


Please correct and never allow Satan stain your awesome writing skills. Please always proofread before you post. Praying for you.

thanks!

I will correct it

paxonel:
they will come for you o

Hahahahaha I am a real Christian. Come have you seen a fake one before?
99% of those who call God Father will not see Him. Not all who call me Father are my children.

SammySteve15:

Hahahahaha I am a real Christian. Come have you seen a fake one before?
99% of those who call God Father will not see Him. Not all who call me Father are my children.

the funny thing is, you are not in the position to judge that one, only God can judge it.

But you can prevent them from infecting you with their mindset.