Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,194,823 members, 7,956,106 topics. Date: Monday, 23 September 2024 at 02:10 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed (42344 Views)
Igbo Monarchs,human Rights Activist Want Emir And Accomplices Arrested-ifesinach / APC Activist Omojuwa Criticises Buhari Government. / Gowon With Idi Amin In Uganda, The Same Day He Was Overthrown In Nigeria (pic) (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) ... (33) (34) (35) (36) (37) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by fstranger1: 5:34am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa from Latvia: We hate you gay! |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 5:39am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa_: My problem with some of these civil rights movements is that they often forget that same individual rights apply to the majority as well, and when there is a conflict they should stop crying marginalization or prejudice. For example while the minorities are entitled to their beliefs, morals, faith etc, it shouldn't come at the expense of majority discarding/changing theirs. Like in this discussion, while gays have the right to live their life as they want, it shouldn't be at the expense of the majority heterosexuals accepting what they consider wrong as right. Like why will they want to force me and my likes to believe that their definition of marriage is superior to ours? |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Kilode1: 6:01am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: What about Dominant minorities? IMO, it depends on how you define majority, the views and beliefs of a numerical minority can dominate policy. It may not be fair, but shyyte happens. It's fairly common in history and politics, i.e the white minority of South Africa dominated the country and their world view was the accepted standard for centuries(still is for the most part) even though they constitute a tiny numerical fraction of the population. Same for the dominance of European world view and ideas across our world. So, it depends on how you define majority, at least from a socio-political standpoint. "lurking" mode |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 6:15am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Kilode?!: Dominant Minority shouldn't exist in true democracy IMO. Every member of a community/group should have equal say/vote on every matter. While minority have their say, majority wins. Except democracy is no longer the rule of numerical majority. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 6:25am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: so minorities should continue to be oppressed because you feel you are entitled to the rights to oppress them? that's not the definition of individual rights. did you take a political science or government course at all? |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 6:27am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: so if nazi germany decides to exterminate all jews tomorrow. that should be allowed based on the idea of majority rules? |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Sagamite(m): 6:41am On Feb 05, 2011 |
eku_bear: It is unreasonable for majority to determine what is right or wrong? So who else should decide it? That is a shocking argument. So who is to decide that my wankstar example is wrong for having is glory in public? If majority cannot determine what is wrong how do we create laws? As per video, you want me to believe something because someone else said so? I should not ask for solid evidence on something that should be easy to get? We live in a world where I have seen fantastic and amazing filming of animal life in impossible places but yet no one (in an industry that is HEAVILY pro-gay) has been able to film gay animals from the millions of specie of animals on Earth and you expect me to accept? Especially when the main authors of some of the fictional gay animal reports are known to be deviants themselves (maybe the others are closet gays). I am sorry, but "my" University of Bristol taught me better. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 6:46am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa_: Depends on what you term as "oppressed" innit? or should the majority be "oppressed" instead? Jenifa_: Quit this your Nazi-Jew thingy already. There is no law anywhere that will support that, and I told you already on this thread that it is the reason organisations like UN exists. And stop equating a law disallowing an act because majority are against it to killing/exterminating a group/ an ethnic cause they are in minority. Doesn't follow each other. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Sagamite(m): 6:47am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa_: Deviancy is not an individual right and not comparable to fundamental rights. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 6:50am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Sagamite: no comment for you. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Kilode1: 6:53am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: I understand you in principle, but unfortunately, numerical majority don't always prevail in a democracy. And it doesn't always equate to fairness. We often think of democracy as a purely fair system but It's not perfect. Early thought leaders of America's current system grappled with the same issue: How do we practice democracy without promoting tyranny of the majority or the minority? Political scientists are still grappling with it. Allowing the wishes of the largest Numerical group don't always mean we are fair or democratic. It's not always about numbers, else, right, wrong and justice will be at the perpetual mercy of political mob rule.(unfortunately it sometimes is) Plurality is another concept that comes to mind in explaining this, where the side with the largest number(not necessarily overall, but in comparison to all other splintered groups) wins the vote even if their wishes represents say just 40% of the population. If you can shed more light on how to best protect the rights of minorities in a democracy without leaving them at the mercy of the majority. I will be glad to read your thoughts. I'm really interested in what others think about this. Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for or against any side in the gay debate, except to condemn murder. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 7:06am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: so if the ugangan government decides to propose a law to jail and execute all gays and the gays rise up in protest against this proposed law, the majority are being oppressed? please explain further what you mean. then you don't know the content of german laws in 1930s and 40s. check this out: http://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/info/decrees/decrees.html And I agree with you. The UN definitely lashed out against the Ugandan govt for proposing that anti-gay bill. but obviously the UN can only do so much. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=33921&Cr=homosexual&Cr1 if you check out the link about german laws in the 1930s, you will see that the holocaust didn't just happen. it started with simple decrees and laws like these. ex banning jews from trade, banning Kosher practices, banning them from practicing their religion, forcing them to wear stars/mark of identification, confiscating their property (especially access to telephone, mail and other forms of communication), banning jewish children from school, secluding them to a ghetto, creating a department of racial hygiene etc all culminating in mass deportations and finally the holocaust. so it was a gradual systematic process. the law doesn't just disallow an act. it disallows a way of life. just as the jewish way of life was disallowed. etc keep in mind Jew is NOT an ethnicity or race (if you must know that even race is a social construct). it's just a culture/way of life!! ie some people define being jewish as having at least a grandparent who practiced the religion, some count recent converts as jewish. there are many definitions. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 7:11am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Two independent United Nations experts today urged the leaders and Government of Uganda to prevent an anti-homosexuality bill currently before Parliament from becoming law, stressing that it would be in breach of fundamental freedoms and human rights. “The bill would not only violate the fundamental rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Ugandan people but would also criminalize the legitimate activities of men and women, as well as national and international organizations, who strive for the respect for equality and non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation,” stressed Margaret Sekaggya and Frank La Rue. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by isalegan2: 7:16am On Feb 05, 2011 |
fstranger1: Fixed. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 7:26am On Feb 05, 2011 |
^ lol. i've just started reporting to mods/ ignoring that one. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by fstranger1: 7:30am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Look at you Screw you! I have started reporting you too Once I get banned, one or two posts after. you 'd be banned as well Oloshi! |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 7:30am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Kilode?!: you only condemn murder. jail terms, harassment, excessive discrimination, systematic oppression etc are ok by you? |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 7:33am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Kilode?!: I wish I have a golden answer to your question, but I dont. I agree with your thought, it is the same reason I didn't argue against eku_bear statement on majority determining rights and wrong. I know it is very possible for majority to take decisions that is 'unfair' and 'wrong' to the minority. For example, a Muslims dominant community can force sharia on the minority in that community. I might say it is 'wrong' and 'unfair' but my calling it 'unfair' and 'wrong' might be because am not a Muslim. So the question is: Who defines Rights and Wrongs? I see some senses in sagamite signature about 'Geniocracy - Rule of the Genius' that is, if we have a well tested parameter to measure intelligence, then we should allow only the intelligent people to vote and take decisions. (of course it will be easier said than done.) But until Political experts come up with a better alternative, democracy still remains the best form of government for now. And where the interests and beliefs of minority is not acceptable/tolerated in a particular society, the minority can disassociate themselves from the majority. For example, If I dont want to practice Sharia, then I can relocate out of Zamfara. In the case of this discussion, gays can relocate from Africa to the West, after all many of them are getting asylum already on that excuse. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 7:38am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J
what an insight you know, now i'm starting to understand the way you,sagamite and tensor think. lol |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by fstranger1: 7:41am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: You see some sense in Sagmite's POV? What else about Sagamite do you like? his di-ck? what about his arse? |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by ekubear1: 7:41am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Sagamite: In short, yes. Rightness/wrongness is not equivalent to what the majority thinks. Regarding video, peer-reviewed scientific research is not enough? Consider this journal publication, for example: http://www.seduquere.com/sgcArchivos/servicios/serviciodeinformacioneducativa/novedad/conductamismosexo.pdf And the article describing it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm Anyway, peer-reviewed research is good enough to convince me, for the most part. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Sagamite(m): 7:44am On Feb 05, 2011 |
fstranger1: gay, you are already thinking of a stiff just because someone said they agree with an opinion? Downlow brother, AIDS is real. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 7:51am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa_: No, if the majority of Ugandans are being forced to accept homosexuality as normal way of life against their belief/morals and such acceptance is forced down the throats of their children under the guise of 'minority rights', then the majority is being 'oppressed'.
I said quit this your Nazi-Jew thingy. Many sane human condemned the whole thing then and now. I still maintain it is unrelated to the act of homosexuality. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 7:56am On Feb 05, 2011 |
fstranger1: hahahahaha lol cos you dont like him, no one should share his POV? C'mon quit it, it's childish. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by ekubear1: 7:58am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa is 100% correct with her extreme example. No sane country equates what the majority wants with the correct course of action. Certainly that is not the way the US works. Otherwise there would still be Jim Crow laws. . . Sometimes a majority of people want what is evil, wrong, unjustifiable or silly. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by fstranger1: 7:59am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Sagamite: Very altruistic of you, coming to the defense of your brother. It seems you are the macho guy is this relationship You must love the anal fisting he gives you, innit? Bro, do your thang mehn. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 8:04am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa_: Am glad you starting to get it. Finally. Long and short of it is that, We (the majority of Africans) will NEVER accept homosexuality as a decent way of life, NEVER, gay rights or not, tell that to all your folks. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 8:06am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: most germans did not. Hitler was very popular in his country. he rose to power mainly because of public support!! remember also that germany lost the world war and were looking for scapegoats. minority population are always targets for stuff like that. even the US was "neutral" for a while and many who condemned it didn't do anything until the worst had already happened. |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by fstranger1: 8:07am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: She is white, she doesnt know what she is talking about! Foolish girl |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Sagamite(m): 8:15am On Feb 05, 2011 |
eku_bear: It is not equivalent to what majority thinks, but if it is not a fundamental human/natural right and it is offensive to majority, then it is a candidate for banning by majority based on what they think. eku_bear: If something should be easy to get, then peer review is not satisfactory for me. If you talk about advent Global warming or Evolution, peer review is great. If you talk about Flamingoes migrating to Lagos, peer review means shyt to me. eku_bear: I opened the first one and closed it under 3 seconds. I opened the second one, and the same thing happened. The titles said it all for me. What I asked for was for you to show me "Gay" or "Homosexual" animals, apart from it not being a video, the documents' title did not say "Gay" or "Homosexual" animals, it said "Same-sex behaviours" seen in animals. I think it is safe to conclude now that you are not capable to show me Gay animals. I am confident the reason for this, in this day and age of advanced technological filming equipments and ease of access to information through various revolutionary media, it is because they do not exist. My confidence is even more fired up because I know the gay-camp knows showing all or majority of animals have gay population is the HOLY GRAIL in beating all arguments and this camp is very influential on the media especially in Europe and yet the likes of advanced widelife documentary makers like BBC can not obtain such videos. No one can show me irrefutable and conclusive videos of Gay animals. fstranger1: It is midnight in the states, no wonder your mind went to stiffs! If we say OBJ is controlling PDP, the only thing you would think of is stiffs. Your concentration is gone. Okay, go ahead and cruise. Don't worry, we will still be here for you to come back and defend your rights from us "homophobics". |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by OAM4J: 8:20am On Feb 05, 2011 |
Jenifa_: OK since you wanna continue with this your Nazi-Jew thingy. How does this story affect/correlate to homosexuality? Are you afraid that the heterosexuals will gather all you gays together and kill you, same way Hitler killed the Jews? Dont worry, that is not our intension, the plan is to get all homos to leave Africa, so that they will not start 'oppressing' us under the guise of gay rights. Simple! |
Re: Uganda Gay Rights Activist David Kato Killed by Jenifa1: 8:24am On Feb 05, 2011 |
OAM4J: I think you misinterpret my post. I mean that I understand your way of thinking. ex. I got these points from your comment: 1. you assume yourself to be a genius 2. you think only geniuses should have a right to vote. hence you are superior (i.e make better decisions) 3. basically, all men are not created equal/ some are inherently superior to others your argument to me then stem not from a belief in majority rule but from your ideas of superiority. let me ask you two questions: do you agree with these ideas below and why or why not? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_men_are_created_equal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citizen not that it doesn't say "majority men." it says "ALL men" and the same declaration has been used to fight for suffrage and rights for women, blacks and other minority or vulnerable population in the US It was the basis for the French revolution as well. so it's not about accepting homosexuality as a decent way of life. or accepting morons as your equal (in terms of skill etc) or even accepting islam or hinduism as a decent religion. or accepting albinos or jews as decent human beings.or accepting women as having equal level of intelligence. it's more about accepting them as human beings with the same alienable rights all people have in common. |
(1) (2) (3) ... (33) (34) (35) (36) (37) (Reply)
Slay Queens Campaigning For President Buhari's Reelection (Photos) / "Meet With Nnamdi Kanu" - Obasanjo Tells Buhari / Adebayo Shittu & His Buhari’s Campaign Caps In Big Ghana-Must-Go Flood Aso Rock
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 127 |